---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/18/09: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:21 AM - Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW (dave) 2. 03:23 AM - Re: Updated Web Site (dave) 3. 03:28 AM - Re: Brake Bleeder (dave) 4. 06:27 AM - Re: Sun 'n' Fun....Paradise City (yodaone) 5. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW (Lowell Fitt) 6. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Updated Web Site (Lowell Fitt) 7. 01:32 PM - Brake Lines (Ken Potter) 8. 03:02 PM - Re: Brake Lines (Larry Huntley) 9. 04:17 PM - Re: Brake Lines (fox5flyer) 10. 04:49 PM - Re: Brake Lines (Larry Huntley) 11. 05:40 PM - Re: Brake Bleeder (WurlyBird) 12. 05:46 PM - Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW (WurlyBird) 13. 05:49 PM - Re: Brake Lines (Lowell Fitt) 14. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW (Lowell Fitt) 15. 07:50 PM - Re: Brake Bleeder (dave) 16. 07:55 PM - Re: Brake Lines (dave) 17. 07:57 PM - Re: Updated Web Site (dave) 18. 08:41 PM - Re: Brake Bleeder (rawheels) 19. 08:49 PM - Re: Re: Brake Bleeder (Lynn Matteson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:25 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW From: "dave" Mal, I not sure what you did to wear our your tires. I never heard of this before. I would suspect asphalt would wear them quicker. If you operating off of paved I would either expect more wear on any tire you use and if you want better wear go to a 16.5 or 18.5 golf cart tire. I have put the King fox through their paces, Water, sand rocks dirt, Mud, Water deep mud 12 " deep, corn stubble with no wear or punctures yet. I would be careful in corn stubble though. Check out my videos, you will see that mine are mostly off pavement so that would be the biggest wear factor and likely why i don;t get the wear. Big thing is that these tires are available again thanks to Kevin. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239863#239863 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:38 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Updated Web Site From: "dave" Lowell, Great looking gear there. What is the exact weight difference between the new gear and tube bungee OEM gear ? Without fairings. Have you tested these in off runway conditions ? What is selling price as well. Keep up the good work Dave -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239864#239864 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:24 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Bleeder From: "dave" WurlyBird wrote: > So would one not want to use a vacuum bleed system like the one I have for cars and motorcycles? Easier to pump from bleeder up. Takes a minute per wheel. Plus how you gonna bleed air out of caliper if bleeder is at bottom ? Dave -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239866#239866 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:06 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Sun 'n' Fun....Paradise City From: "yodaone" I will be there on Sunday and usually park in the Home built aircraft field. Will stay till Saturday. I always do the War-bird south arrival and land on the grass strip. Basically come from due south of the airport and then head north. Join the traffic pattern for the flybys/bi-plane and land on the grass strip next to 9R. Most of the time I don't communicate with any one. This also works for the Paradise city arrival/departure. Get right in and minimal taxi. Here's a link to SNF arrival. http://www.faaproductionstudios.com//SNF%20Arrival%20Proceedures%20Notam/2009%20SUN%20N%20FUN%20NOTAM%20final%20color.pdf -------- 1991 Kitfox IV 1050LB Rotax 912UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239888#239888 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:27 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW I agree with Dave. I suspect if you are having wear problems, it might be due to wheel alignment. The early bungee gear were notorious for being toed in which also resulted in the squirrily reputation the airplanes had. The Lancair guy I helped build his IV had severe tire wear until he shimmed the axles to get straight tracking. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "dave" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 3:20 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW > > Mal, > > I not sure what you did to wear our your tires. I never heard of this > before. I would suspect asphalt would wear them quicker. If you > operating off of paved I would either expect more wear on any tire you use > and if you want better wear go to a 16.5 or 18.5 golf cart tire. > > I have put the King fox through their paces, Water, sand rocks dirt, Mud, > Water deep mud 12 " deep, corn stubble with no wear or punctures yet. > I would be careful in corn stubble though. > > Check out my videos, you will see that mine are mostly off pavement so > that would be the biggest wear factor and likely why i don;t get the wear. > > Big thing is that these tires are available again thanks to Kevin. > > -------- > Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada > http://www.cfisher.com/ > Awesome *New Forum * > http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ > Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239863#239863 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:28 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Updated Web Site Dave, We have no heavy off airport experience with this gear design. My original bungee gear weighs 9 lbs. bare naked - with bungees but without axles. Our gear weighs 17 lbs in the same confuguration and the original axles, wheels and brakes are re-used. The price is $1275 without fairings. The fairings add $250 and they are pre formed and predrilled. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "dave" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 3:23 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Updated Web Site > > Lowell, > > Great looking gear there. What is the exact weight difference between the > new gear and tube bungee OEM gear ? Without fairings. > > Have you tested these in off runway conditions ? > > What is selling price as well. > > > Keep up the good work > > Dave > > -------- > Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada > http://www.cfisher.com/ > Awesome *New Forum * > http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ > Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239864#239864 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:27 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines From: "Ken Potter" Hi Folks; I'm ready to install brake lines in my Model II. The lines supplied with the kit are a plastic material. Question, all of the certified aircraft I've flown had solid metallic brake lines. Are these plastic lines, supplied with the kit 20 years ago kosher or are there updated lightweight lines available?? Cheers Ken -------- Ken Potter Model II, No. 483 Rotax 582, C-Box, 98% Complete C-FJKP (marks reserved) Lanark, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239945#239945 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:17 PM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines I used mine for 120 yrs and 500 hrs. When I recovered the fuselage this winter I bought new ones from John McBean. They are cheap. Old ones were a bit brittle. Larry Huntley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Potter" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 4:31 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines > > Hi Folks; > > I'm ready to install brake lines in my Model II. The lines supplied with > the kit are a plastic material. Question, all of the certified aircraft > I've flown had solid metallic brake lines. Are these plastic lines, > supplied with the kit 20 years ago kosher or are there updated lightweight > lines available?? > > Cheers > > Ken > > -------- > Ken Potter > Model II, No. 483 > Rotax 582, C-Box, > 98% Complete > C-FJKP (marks reserved) > Lanark, Ontario > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239945#239945 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09:55:00 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:33 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines After that long I would expect them to be brittle. That is definitely something for the record books, Larry. :-) Deke do not archive > > I used mine for 120 yrs and 500 hrs. When I recovered the fuselage this > winter I bought new ones from John McBean. They are cheap. Old ones were a > bit brittle. > > Larry Huntley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Potter" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 4:31 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines > > >> >> Hi Folks; >> >> I'm ready to install brake lines in my Model II. The lines supplied with >> the kit are a plastic material. Question, all of the certified aircraft >> I've flown had solid metallic brake lines. Are these plastic lines, >> supplied with the kit 20 years ago kosher or are there updated >> lightweight lines available?? >> >> Cheers >> >> Ken >> >> -------- >> Ken Potter >> Model II, No. 483 >> Rotax 582, C-Box, >> 98% Complete >> C-FJKP (marks reserved) >> Lanark, Ontario >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239945#239945 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 09:55:00 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:47 PM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines Well, It might be a little exaggeration Deke, but we are amongst feathered bretheren here. ;o) Has been 10 yrs though. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "fox5flyer" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines > > After that long I would expect them to be brittle. That is definitely > something for the record books, Larry. :-) > Deke > do not archive > > >> >> I used mine for 120 yrs and 500 hrs. When I recovered the fuselage this >> winter I bought new ones from John McBean. They are cheap. Old ones were >> a >> bit brittle. >> >> Larry Huntley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ken Potter" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 4:31 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines >> >> >>> >>> Hi Folks; >>> >>> I'm ready to install brake lines in my Model II. The lines supplied >>> with >>> the kit are a plastic material. Question, all of the certified aircraft >>> I've flown had solid metallic brake lines. Are these plastic lines, >>> supplied with the kit 20 years ago kosher or are there updated >>> lightweight lines available?? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> -------- >>> Ken Potter >>> Model II, No. 483 >>> Rotax 582, C-Box, >>> 98% Complete >>> C-FJKP (marks reserved) >>> Lanark, Ontario >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239945#239945 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 09:55:00 >> >> >> >> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09:55:00 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:23 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Bleeder From: "WurlyBird" The bleeder for all brake systems is on the bottom. A vacuum system simply hooks to the bleeder and creates a vacuum and pulls all the fluid AND AIR out through the bottom. So all you have to do is create a vacuum and then make sure you keep the reservoir full and voila, nice fresh fluid, no bubbles. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop Soloed the Kitfox yesterday!!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239987#239987 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:39 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW From: "WurlyBird" So how do you check wheel alignment on a KF? -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop Soloed the Kitfox yesterday!!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239989#239989 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:54 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines Ken, The Nyla-Flow tubing included with the kits it the thing to use. You might want to check it out a bit as it appears to be pretty old. Read about it on the Aircraft Spruce website or their catalogue. It is standard on most kitplanes, including the Lancair. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Potter" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake Lines > > Hi Folks; > > I'm ready to install brake lines in my Model II. The lines supplied with > the kit are a plastic material. Question, all of the certified aircraft > I've flown had solid metallic brake lines. Are these plastic lines, > supplied with the kit 20 years ago kosher or are there updated lightweight > lines available?? > > Cheers > > Ken > > -------- > Ken Potter > Model II, No. 483 > Rotax 582, C-Box, > 98% Complete > C-FJKP (marks reserved) > Lanark, Ontario > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239945#239945 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:50 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW James, The easiest way to get a feel for what you have is to put a piece of tape on the back tread of each tire at axle height. Put a pen mark on each tape and measure the distance between them. Then roll the airplane forward until the marked tape is axle height and measure again. The measurement should be the same or maybe a small fraction longer. Other ways are a bit more precise. In the factory article in the "Kitfox Times" a life time ago, called for putting a square on the axle and beyond that I get lost as there is significant camber on the axle and it makes any measurement using the axle problematic. One sure fire way is to attach a laser pointer to the brake rotor with magnets and project a line fore and aft and do the measurements that way. Always keeping the laser pointer and any targets at the same height off the floor to eliminate camber errors. This method does require a bit of fabricating to get a device that puts the laser beams parallel on each rotor. Try the easy way first and see what you get. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "WurlyBird" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 5:46 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox Tire Production Run - Pre Order NOW > > > So how do you check wheel alignment on a KF? > > -------- > James > Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop > Soloed the Kitfox yesterday!!! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239989#239989 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:02 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Bleeder From: "dave" WurlyBird wrote: > The bleeder for all brake systems is on the bottom. A vacuum system simply hooks to the bleeder and creates a vacuum and pulls all the fluid AND AIR out through the bottom. So all you have to do is create a vacuum and then make sure you keep the reservoir full and voila, nice fresh fluid, no bubbles. Well, air rises and there is no way in hell that will work. I have been a licensed Mechanic for over 30 years. Autos that you are thinking of the bleeders are on the top. Brake system totally different on our Kitfox's . There are no proportioning valves or ABS brakes . LOL Now if you invert your calipers then maybe it might work. But why re-invent the wheel when it ain't busted ? In the time it took my to write this post , you could have both sides bleed the proper way , from the bottom up. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240014#240014 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:23 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Lines From: "dave" I would buy new line, Just bend it 90 degrees and see what happens, it gets brittle. ACS will have the proper nuts and sleeves that go inside. I bought my last bunch from Wicks and have to re-order soon, let me know if ACS in Brantford has them . Also , Leavens might have them too. Don;t order US unless they will ship via postal unless you ready to get shafted by customs brokers like Fed EX. A 300 $ US order might turn into 500 or 600$ CDN quickly. KEn, What prop did you go with ? Dave -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240018#240018 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:37 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Updated Web Site From: "dave" Lowell , Great update and great looking gear. Glad you finally posted that they are a tad heavier than tube gear , Dick must have weighed them not naked ? Anyhow still cheaper and better looking than a Grove gear. But more drag as per Dick ? Dave lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: > Dave, > > We have no heavy off airport experience with this gear design. My original > bungee gear weighs 9 lbs. bare naked - with bungees but without axles. Our > gear weighs 17 lbs in the same confuguration and the original axles, wheels > and brakes are re-used. The price is $1275 without fairings. The > fairings add $250 and they are pre formed and predrilled. > > Lowell > > --- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240019#240019 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:29 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Bleeder From: "rawheels" dave wrote: > air rises and there is no way in hell that will work. WurlyBird, I've used those, and they do work, but the other way is a lot easier and reliably successful in my opinion. Most EAA clubs, FBO's, or neighbor hangars will probably have some sort of pressure system you could borrow. However, you CAN try whatever you want. That is what this is all about. There are two possible issues with the vacuum I can think of: First, not all master cylinders will allow positive pressure in that direction. All will allow fluid to move freely at low pressure, and somewhat higher pressure in the upward direction (so the brakes don't lock up if the fluid expands rapidly). Guess you'd just have to try it out to know. Second, it might be harder than you think to keep the reservoir filled. On a car, motorcycle, or even a Piper aircraft there is pretty nice access to the reservoir. So keeping it full is pretty easy. When all you have is a small 10-24 screw hole like on these or a Cessna, it is nearly impossible to monitor the fluid level easily. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240027#240027 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:15 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Bleeder So as not to display the arrogance of another responder, James, I'll just say that all the bleeders I've dealt with over the years have been automotive, and all have been on the top of the individual wheel cylinders, because air rises. When the brake pedal is depressed, the fluid and any air contained therein will travel out to the wheel cylinders, where the air will rise to the top where it can be bled off. Other brake systems may use a different scenario, Kitfox included, but it is safe to say that the bleeder is not on the bottom "for all brake systems." Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 628.1 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying do not archive On Apr 18, 2009, at 8:39 PM, WurlyBird wrote: > > > The bleeder for all brake systems is on the bottom. A vacuum > system simply hooks to the bleeder and creates a vacuum and pulls > all the fluid AND AIR out through the bottom. So all you have to > do is create a vacuum and then make sure you keep the reservoir > full and voila, nice fresh fluid, no bubbles. > > -------- > James > Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop > Soloed the Kitfox yesterday!!! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239987#239987 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.