Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Re: Tool Kit (fox5flyer)
2. 04:37 AM - Re: Tool Kit (Boilermaker2000)
3. 05:36 AM - GSC props, was Brake Lines (fox5flyer)
4. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Charging system trouble shooting (fox5flyer)
5. 06:22 AM - Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (Noel Loveys)
6. 06:47 AM - Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (fox5flyer)
7. 07:11 AM - Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (dave)
8. 07:13 AM - Re: Charging system trouble shooting (dave)
9. 07:40 AM - Re: Tool Kit (patrick reilly)
10. 07:54 AM - Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems (earnestj0)
11. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems (Lowell Fitt)
12. 08:34 AM - Re: Charging system trouble shooting (Tom Jones)
13. 09:39 AM - Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (Ken Potter)
14. 09:41 AM - Re: GSC props (Paul Franz)
15. 10:01 AM - Re: GSC props (dave)
16. 10:01 AM - Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (dave)
17. 10:06 AM - Re: GSC props (dave)
18. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation (Lowell Fitt)
19. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (Bob Brennan)
20. 10:08 AM - Re: GSC props (JetPilot)
21. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (fox5flyer)
22. 10:29 AM - Re: Tool Kit (Norm Beauchamp)
23. 10:38 AM - Re: GSC props (dave)
24. 10:44 AM - Puked props -- your misadventures (dave)
25. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation (fox5flyer)
26. 10:57 AM - Re: GSC props (akflyer)
27. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
28. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: GSC props (fox5flyer)
29. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: GSC props (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
30. 11:53 AM - Re: GSC props (eskflyer)
31. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: GSC props (Lowell Fitt)
32. 11:58 AM - Re: Puked props -- your misadventures (eskflyer)
33. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation (W Duke)
34. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems (fox5flyer)
35. 01:00 PM - Re: GSC props (JetPilot)
36. 01:21 PM - Re: GSC props (JetPilot)
37. 01:35 PM - Re: GSC props (n85ae)
38. 01:52 PM - Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation (n85ae)
39. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: GSC props (fox5flyer)
40. 02:41 PM - Re: Big Foot Rudder Mods (Ken Potter)
41. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: GSC props (Pete Christensen)
42. 03:04 PM - Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (Noel Loveys)
43. 03:09 PM - Re: Tool Kit (Noel Loveys)
44. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines (Noel Loveys)
45. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation (W Duke)
46. 03:38 PM - Re: Tool Kit (Noel Loveys)
47. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: GSC props (Bob Brennan)
48. 05:36 PM - Re: GSC props (JetPilot)
49. 05:58 PM - Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation (n85ae)
50. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: GSC props (Bob Brennan)
51. 08:40 PM - Re: GSC props (eskflyer)
52. 09:05 PM - Trip Report (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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Nah, Guiness.
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tool Kit
> <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> 6 pack of Miller Light
>
>
>
Message 2
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Fox5flyer wrote:
> Nah, Guiness.
Not a bad idea. It meets the duel purpose criteria;drink and/or motor oil.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240667#240667
Message 3
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| Subject: | GSC props, was Brake Lines |
This thread seems to have morphed to GSC props.
Unfortunately, GSC was forced into mandating the 5 year limit. IMO, that
prop is no different than the engine that it is attached to. It requires
regular maintenance according to manufacturers recommendations. Even though
the instructions that come with it are very explicit as to care and
maintenance, it just doesn't seem to get done in all cases. For some
strange reason props seem to be taken for granted. Many years ago there was
an incident with a list member who lost a blade, but when pictures were
provided, it was obvious that the blade roots inside the hub area were well
rotted and were just an accident waiting to happen. This didn't appear to
be the fault of the prop, but maintenance and the fact that the airplane was
parked outside in the weather with a lot of rain. Most of the problems with
GSC have been from the blades turning in the hub and causing the pitch of
the blades to change. Again, GSC provides very explicit instructions about
torquing so as not to crush the blade roots and to ensure there is a gap
between the aluminum hubs. Personally, I feel GSC has gotten a bad and
undeserved rap that it may never recover from. Many years ago IVO nearly
closed its doors for similar reasons, but seems to have recovered well.
Right here on this list there were the IVO bashers that spent a lot of
energy trying to destroy the company.
Personally, I had a GSC on my first Kitfox (Model 2) that performed
perfectly and after 400+ hours when I sold it it was still like new. Then
again, it took some tweaking and maintenance just like the 582 did.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Lines
>
> Check out this from the GSC site:
>
> http://www.ultralightprops.com/bulletins/051799_sb.pdf
>
> Close to the bottom of the page TBO
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:23 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Lines
>
>
> Wow, I sure didn't intend to start debate about propellors but glad I
> did.
> I'm concerned about safety for sure, but also am concerned about long
> term
> cost. This is my first kitplane and I'm used to certified aircraft and
> props.
> I I told Dave earlier I'm to going to contact GSC for advice. The prop
> looks good under visual inspection. I work for the Transportation Safety
> Board of Canada as an investigator and see enough accident reports that I
> do
> not want to take a chance. If a GSC prop has an automatic 5 year expiry
> date
> (with no hours) then I consider it a "disposable" prop, and, even though
> I
> inherited it with the kit I bought, would not consider one again just
> based
> on TBO.
>
> That said, I plan to put the plane on floats in the next two years and
> may
> need to change the prop anyways.
>
> Cheers, and keep up the discussion!!!
> Ken
>
> --------
> Ken Potter
> Model II, No. 483
> Rotax 582, C-Box,
> 98% Complete
> C-FJKP (marks reserved)
> Lanark, Ontario
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240565#240565
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system trouble shooting |
Good points Paul. Thank you. To be more accurate I probably should have
stated "somewhere between 13.8 to 14.5", but even that probably would have
invited some sort of a correction. My point was, and what I was trying to
say, that if a voltage test only shows battery voltage then there is no
charge going on.
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Charging system trouble shooting
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Tue, April 21, 2009 5:30 pm, fox5flyer wrote:
>
>> With engine running you should be getting somewhere around 14.5v at the
>> battery. If not you have a charging problem. Recheck your regulator
>> wiring
>> before you start tearing things apart.
>
> How was it that Johnny used to interrupt ed McMahon? Whoa, lead acid
> breath, let's
> review this.
>
> As pointed out earlier today in a post, an hour meter (Hobbs?) wired into
> the system,
> might prevent the regulator from working. Or make it seem like the
> lighting coils were
> ineffective. So, in the absence of any particular wisdom about his system,
> I think it
> is appropriate to first isolate it to the battery, the charging system and
> a simple DC
> load, like a headlamp.
>
> Next, batteries don't have to be charged to capacity and in fact it is not
> at all
> uncommon to have a vehicle manufacturer select a fully charged voltage of
> 13.6 to 13.8
> volts. The batteries are thought to last longer doing so. Now, the maximum
> charged
> voltage I've seen is 14.1 or 14.2 volts. I am under the impression that if
> you set a
> battery charger to maintain a voltage higher than about that, it will just
> boil the
> battery dry. So, what I am saying is, are you sure it's OK to see an
> applied voltage
> that is sustained of 14.5 volts at the battery? I don't have test data
> right at hand,
> but having it set that high might be cause for reduced battery life.
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
> "When I took the oath of office, I pledged loyalty to only one
> special interest group -- 'We the People.' Those people -- neighbors
> and friends, shopkeepers and laborers, farmers and craftsmen -- do
> not have infinite patience. As a matter of fact, some 80 years ago,
> Teddy Roosevelt wrote these instructive words in his first message
> to the Congress: 'The American people are slow to wrath, but when
> their wrath is once kindled, it burns like a consuming flame.' Well,
> perhaps that kind of wrath will be deserved if our answer to these
> serious problems is to repeat the mistakes of the past."
> -- Ronald Reagan
>
> I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
> -- Will Rogers
>
> What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
> -- Edward Langley, Artist (1928-1995)
>
> "[S]omething very ugly has surfaced in contemporary American
> liberalism, as evidenced by the irrational and sometimes infantile
> abuse directed toward anyone who strays from a strict party line.
> Liberalism, like second-wave feminism, seems to have become a new
> religion for those who profess contempt for religion. It has been
> reduced to an elitist set of rhetorical formulas, which posit the
> working class as passive, mindless victims in desperate need of
> salvation by the state. Individual rights and free expression,
> which used to be liberal values, are being gradually subsumed to
> worship of government power. The problems on the American left were
> already manifest by the late 1960s, as college-educated liberals
> began to lose contact with the working class for whom they claimed
> to speak. ... For the past 25 years, liberalism has gradually sunk
> into a soft, soggy, white upper-middle-class style that I often
> find preposterous and repellent. ... It's a comfortable, urban,
> messianic liberalism befogged by psychiatric pharmaceuticals.
> Conservatives these days are more geared to facts than emotions,
> and as individuals they seem to have a more ethical, perhaps
> sports-based sense of fair play."
> -- columnist Camille Paglia
>
> "The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure
> when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."
> -- Patrick Henry
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | GSC props, was Brake Lines |
All of that is true. The factor that brought Ivo back from the brink was
their emphasis on the correct torque of their props and the fact torque
needs to be checked on regular intervals with a calibrated wrench. They
even went so far as to not include bolts with lock wire holes in the heads
because they found most of their customers would rather miss a torque check
than cut a little lock wire.
GSC on their web site also emphasizes the importance of correct torque and
checking for the space between halves of the hub. I did mention the problem
I had with getting the pitch set was I expect because at one time or the
other the prop was over torque. I would set the pitch on all three blades
and go to half torque. Then I would check the three blades for pitch and
tracking and bring the torque up to the recommended value in three steps.
When It was fully torque I would check the pitch again and would find each
blade would be at different pitches. The tracking remained consistent.
I switched to the Ivo only for the IFA to help me get a set of floats out of
the water and it would work on my "B" box. Not because I thought there was
anything wrong with the GSC
When I get the installation of my 912 finished I will have a brand new warp
drive which came with the engine. I expect with the extra horsepower I
won't need the IFA option. If I find I will need it I may try the GSC
mechanical hub.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: GSC props, was Brake Lines
This thread seems to have morphed to GSC props.
Unfortunately, GSC was forced into mandating the 5 year limit. IMO, that
prop is no different than the engine that it is attached to. It requires
regular maintenance according to manufacturers recommendations. Even though
the instructions that come with it are very explicit as to care and
maintenance, it just doesn't seem to get done in all cases. For some
strange reason props seem to be taken for granted. Many years ago there was
an incident with a list member who lost a blade, but when pictures were
provided, it was obvious that the blade roots inside the hub area were well
rotted and were just an accident waiting to happen. This didn't appear to
be the fault of the prop, but maintenance and the fact that the airplane was
parked outside in the weather with a lot of rain. Most of the problems with
GSC have been from the blades turning in the hub and causing the pitch of
the blades to change. Again, GSC provides very explicit instructions about
torquing so as not to crush the blade roots and to ensure there is a gap
between the aluminum hubs. Personally, I feel GSC has gotten a bad and
undeserved rap that it may never recover from. Many years ago IVO nearly
closed its doors for similar reasons, but seems to have recovered well.
Right here on this list there were the IVO bashers that spent a lot of
energy trying to destroy the company.
Personally, I had a GSC on my first Kitfox (Model 2) that performed
perfectly and after 400+ hours when I sold it it was still like new. Then
again, it took some tweaking and maintenance just like the 582 did.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Lines
>
> Check out this from the GSC site:
>
> http://www.ultralightprops.com/bulletins/051799_sb.pdf
>
> Close to the bottom of the page TBO
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:23 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Lines
>
>
> Wow, I sure didn't intend to start debate about propellors but glad I
> did.
> I'm concerned about safety for sure, but also am concerned about long
> term
> cost. This is my first kitplane and I'm used to certified aircraft and
> props.
> I I told Dave earlier I'm to going to contact GSC for advice. The prop
> looks good under visual inspection. I work for the Transportation Safety
> Board of Canada as an investigator and see enough accident reports that I
> do
> not want to take a chance. If a GSC prop has an automatic 5 year expiry
> date
> (with no hours) then I consider it a "disposable" prop, and, even though
> I
> inherited it with the kit I bought, would not consider one again just
> based
> on TBO.
>
> That said, I plan to put the plane on floats in the next two years and
> may
> need to change the prop anyways.
>
> Cheers, and keep up the discussion!!!
> Ken
>
> --------
> Ken Potter
> Model II, No. 483
> Rotax 582, C-Box,
> 98% Complete
> C-FJKP (marks reserved)
> Lanark, Ontario
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240565#240565
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines |
That should be a nice setup once you get flying it, Noel. I'm sure it will
be a big improvement and the prop should be a good match.
Having been flying behind an IFA prop for the past 9 years, I can't imagine
ever using a fixed pitch again. Its just that much better. You can set
rpm for max hp on takeoff then can dial in for best climb, cruise, or
economy. Why compromise if you don't have to especially when you can get
one that will reverse pitch so you can back right up to the dock? It's only
money... :-)
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original >
> When I get the installation of my 912 finished I will have a brand new
> warp
> drive which came with the engine. I expect with the extra horsepower I
> won't need the IFA option. If I find I will need it I may try the GSC
> mechanical hub.
>
> Noel
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines |
I have tested many different props on Kitfox Alone.
I find that the performance on a 2 stroke is minimal. We talking a few % .
When I have read about these wild gains that are had I have tested personally and
have not found it to be the same. I can only conclude that is you are going
from a less than optimized prop setup to an "ideal " set up prop then those
wild claim may be validated.
What Deke says about GSC is true they are a decent prop.
You will not get 10 mph cruise gains or take offs 30% less time bla bla bla
. on a 2 stoke on a tweaked prop set up.
That being said , I have found that 912 series seem to gain more with IVos than
with GSC props.
Seaplane operations, IVO with SS tape ok, WARP drive with Nickel leading edges
are one of the most in-destrucible props out there. In flight adjustable is
of some help on a seaplane with a big attribute that you can fine the prop while
taxing on water an slowing you down. The ultimate is a rebersoing prop
for docking . the more complex you get , the more change of problems. the USA
guys thast fly under LSA cannot use IFA props. In Canada we can.
I have personally had a prop failure and serviced or seen personally others Depart.
These include IVO, WARP , NSI CAP and GSC.
Mc Bean is using the Whirlwind prop , it will be interesting how they perform over
time. they start at 4 k .
That my thoughts,
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240700#240700
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system trouble shooting |
Jame go back to the stasrt of this thread and all your answers right there. :)
Fox5flyer wrote:
> Good points Paul. Thank you. To be more accurate I probably should have
> stated "somewhere between 13.8 to 14.5", but even that probably would have
> invited some sort of a correction. My point was, and what I was trying to
> say, that if a voltage test only shows battery voltage then there is no
> charge going on.
> Deke
> do not archive
>
> ---
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Charging system trouble shooting
Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
Key West regulator should not be showing over 14 V, Thy will usually be 13.8 to
13.9 volts that is one of their attributes. ON a Rotax regulator you cold get
14 to 18 v , I stay away from them.
James, Have you checked your battery ?
- Fluid level -- top with distilled water and slow charge over night
- once charge put on a load test.
I assume that after you put on the key west regulator that you ran a voltage check
? You should be getting about 14 V with engine running and 12.5 to 13.2 with
engine off
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240701#240701
Message 9
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Noel=2C If rib lacing cord can be used for dental floss=2C how about revers
ing that and using dental floss for rib lacing in a pinch?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
> From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tool Kit
> Date: Tue=2C 21 Apr 2009 20:58:23 -0230
>
>
> Great idea. Wax chord could also be used to start a fire or floss your
> teeth. :-) Seriously wax chord was used extensively in aircraft before th
e
> advent of nylon tie wraps. I have a beef with the tie wraps and that is
> when cropped if not rounded they will gash open hands reaching into an
> engine compartment tugging on things to check they are solid.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteso
n
> Sent: Tuesday=2C April 21=2C 2009 8:07 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tool Kit
>
>
> Taking that thought a step further=2C how about a length of rib lacing
> cord? It's already got the wax impregnated in it. I used it to bundle
> some of the wires in my plane=2C so if I forgot to take it along with
> me=2C I could just rob some from the plane and not tell the FAA that
> I've now got some wires dangling. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 632.8 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 21=2C 2009=2C at 5:38 PM=2C Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> > Scrap the tie wraps and put in a small length of string... nylon
> > would be good.... You will be able to use the string for
> > everything to holding up shelters to tourniquets if necessary. You
> > w0uld even be able to stitch up a wing with it if you had to. Your
> > leatherman could make the holes wax from a candle would make the
> > end of the string stiff enough to push through the holes and the
> > tape would seal the repair until you get home. String can also be
> > used to do just about anything tie wraps can do only more.
> >
> > Noel
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems |
Just wanted to post a final response. Thanks to all on this list over the last
year for help on every issue to help get me up in the air with my Vixen. I spoke
with Mr. Ellison yesterday and he gave me some tests to perform on the throttle
body to determine if functioning properly. First put the fuel pump on to
produce pressure, shut fuel shut off valve to prevent backflow, then turn it
off. If the pressure goes down, there is a blockage of the needle valve in the
TB and gas would be leakiing into the opening. Second, when engine running,
turn off fuel shut of valve to stop engine, then, start cranking the engine
and turn the fuel shut off valve back on. These tests determine if the mixture
is too rich. Both tests were normal.
So I set the timing as per Subaru to 8 BTDC instead of the NSI which I believe
is around 18-22 BTDC for the initial setting. I left the 1000 and 3000 RPM settings
alone. IT STARTED EVERY TIME!!! :0
Thanks for all the help.
If anyone is ever in McCall/Donnelly Idaho area, look me up.
Ted
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240709#240709
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems |
Ted,
Caught the McCall/Donnelly at the end of your post. Kitfox Heaven to be
sure. I am building now, but hope to catch you there in a year or so.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "earnestj0" <earnestj@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems
>
> Just wanted to post a final response. Thanks to all on this list over the
> last year for help on every issue to help get me up in the air with my
> Vixen. I spoke with Mr. Ellison yesterday and he gave me some tests to
> perform on the throttle body to determine if functioning properly. First
> put the fuel pump on to produce pressure, shut fuel shut off valve to
> prevent backflow, then turn it off. If the pressure goes down, there is a
> blockage of the needle valve in the TB and gas would be leakiing into the
> opening. Second, when engine running, turn off fuel shut of valve to stop
> engine, then, start cranking the engine and turn the fuel shut off valve
> back on. These tests determine if the mixture is too rich. Both tests
> were normal.
> So I set the timing as per Subaru to 8 BTDC instead of the NSI which I
> believe is around 18-22 BTDC for the initial setting. I left the 1000
> and 3000 RPM settings alone. IT STARTED EVERY TIME!!! :0
> Thanks for all the help.
> If anyone is ever in McCall/Donnelly Idaho area, look me up.
> Ted
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240709#240709
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system trouble shooting |
Oops, I have been confusing my Tympanium heavy duty regulator with the key West.
I don't have any wiring knowledge for the key West. I am going to delete my
other posts on this so as not to further the issue along with the archives the
archives.
Sorry about that James
Key West on the left, Tympanium on the right
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240711#240711
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/keytympreg1a_198.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines |
I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies in my
case ie; new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's still in box,
blades not attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and stored in a heated
shop. Anyways, you can't put a price on safety and I'll buy a new prop if
I have to and do without something else less critical for a while.
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240725#240725
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On Wed, April 22, 2009 5:35 am, fox5flyer wrote:
>
> This thread seems to have morphed to GSC props.
> Unfortunately, GSC was forced into mandating the 5 year limit. IMO, that
> prop is no different than the engine that it is attached to. It requires
> regular maintenance according to manufacturers recommendations. Even though
> the instructions that come with it are very explicit as to care and
> maintenance, it just doesn't seem to get done in all cases.
I can understand that you can't store a wood prop outside where it is getting wet
from
rain and partially drying out continually. But, without the manuals and never having
read them, on the face of things I would be hesitant to get a wood prop because
I
don't think I could operate it such that I could always keep it dry and parking
the
aircraft mandates a hangar. So if you went on a trip and were weathered in, you'd
likely have to tie-down in the open and the prop could get rain on it for a day.
Of
course you could probably devise a prop cover but that might not function perfectly
at
the most vulnerable part - the roots. And as Lynn has pointed out, his prop came
from
Florida where it had likely exposure to higher humidity so he found it necessary
to
re-torque and then it sounded like he wasn't too confident about how long the job
would last.
I think it would be interesting and helpful if someone could post the maintenance
procedures for the GSC and put this required maintenance in proper perspective.
As it
is, I don't think I know enough to ever overcome my reluctance to using a wooden
propeller.
In 1949 my uncle had a Luscombe Sedan and it was always hangared and nearly brand
new
when on flight about 20 miles from home with a passenger, suddenly the prop separated
and instantly ripped the engine off the firewall. As you can image what this does
to
weight and balance. Extreme rear CG. The passenger was in his ever flight too.
Enough
of the firewall was ripped off too that you could see through the front by your
feet.
Both of them were smoking at the time too - Camels or Lucky Strikes and gasoline
was
running out of the header tank probably. My uncle told the passenger to lean forward
as far as he could but the guy was so terrified, he could not. Well, my uncle Vic
landed that tail dragger on a trail in the sage brush about 10 miles northwest
of
Othello, Washington. My uncle had crushed the lit cigarette into the palm of his
hand
and that was the only injury. Within about a week, a sheep herder found the engine
remains within a couple miles of the landing spot with one blade still attached.
The
other blade was found within a quarter mile too. Maybe less. I can't remember for
sure
who determined that it was a faulty wood prop, FAA, engine or prop manufacturer
or
Luscombe but it was a fault in the prop. The warranty covered the prop replacement
which was only a small part of the damage. The plane was repaired and my uncle
flew it
for another few years until upgrading to a some Cessna tail dragger, I was only
a
little kid then so I can't recall which model. It could have been a 140 but I think
bigger.
So, the entire time of my youth I always thought how strange that someone would
even
attempt to make a propeller that turned 2700 rpm out of wood. So, for me to ever
overcome my innate fear of wooden propellers, I would have to see the written
operating and maintenance procedures to determine if I really believed I could
live up
to the letter of direction they state. I am so prejudiced that when I discovered
a
Jabiru engine required a wood prop, that terminated my interest in Jabiru.
My 90 year old uncle Vic, stopped flying 3 years ago because he could not renew
his
medical since he had a pacemaker installed so he sold his C-210. My brother took
Vic
up in a Citabria a couple weeks ago and my uncle's flying skills seemed as sharp
as
ever. Vic landed it perfectly on their farm strip after a sight seeing trip that
included the vicinity of that forced landing in 1949.
My uncle Vic was a bit of a camera bug at the time too and he got quite a bunch
of
photos of the landing scene and later, the discovered engine. These were of course,
monochrome (black and white) photos but real nice. I think he's since scanned all
the
negatives and has high them in fairly high quality. I will ask for them and post
them
if anyone is interested.
That Luscombe Sedan is still registered to someone in the San Diego area. I don't
have
the N registration number at hand but I'll get that too. Vic told me a few years
ago
he tracked down the registered owner of that Luscombe Sedan and told him the story.
Message 15
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Ken Potter wrote:
> I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies in
my case ie; new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's still in box,
blades not attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and stored in a heated
shop. Anyways, you can't put a price on safety and I'll buy a new prop if
I have to and do without something else less critical for a while.
>
> Ken
Ken, Give Rick a call at GSC and get his advice. I agree with what you say. Inside
, climate controlled is likely good for wood as well as the fact if never
been tightened down.
I feel a big contributing factor to the loss of strength of a GSC prop is the user's
over tightening them down under 100 inch/pound is about 8 ft . lbs which
is really peanuts.
Then can fail but really they have a great track record.
I will move this topic to a GSC thread that was just started.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240735#240735
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| Subject: | Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines |
Ken Potter wrote:
> I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies in
my case ie; new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's still in box,
blades not attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and stored in a heated
shop. Anyways, you can't put a price on safety and I'll buy a new prop if
I have to and do without something else less critical for a while.
>
> Ken
Ken, Give Rick a call at GSC and get his advice. I agree with what you say. Inside
, climate controlled is likely good for wood as well as the fact if never
been tightened down.
I feel a big contributing factor to the loss of strength of a GSC prop is the user's
over tightening them down under 100 inch/pound is about 8 ft . lbs which
is really peanuts.
Then can fail but really they have a great track record.
I will move this topic to a GSC thread that was just started.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240734#240734
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Paul , Any prop can die. Trust me . !! No one is immune from a prop failure
. IVO WARP NSI GSC -- I have seen them all.
Wood props are just as safe as any composite one.
Look at Gary Walsh's NSI prop that separated, what was the cause ? certainly
not failure of the wood.
I highly recommend that All airplanes including Kitfox with any engine combo to
have one or two safety cables attached to the engine and airframe. Mine has
one attached to 2 points on engine and fished through the firewall and looped
around the fuselage .
Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
> On Wed, April 22, 2009 5:35 am, fox5flyer wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > This thread seems to have morphed to GSC props.
> > Unfortunately, GSC was forced into mandating the 5 year limit. IMO, that
> > prop is no different than the engine that it is attached to. It requires
> > regular maintenance according to manufacturers recommendations. Even though
> > the instructions that come with it are very explicit as to care and
> > maintenance, it just doesn't seem to get done in all cases.
> >
> >
>
> I can understand that you can't store a wood prop outside where it is getting
wet from
> rain and partially drying out continually. But, without the manuals and never
having
> read them, on the face of things I would be hesitant to get a wood prop because
I
> don't think I could operate it such that I could always keep it dry and parking
the
> aircraft mandates a hangar. So if you went on a trip and were weathered in, you'd
> likely have to tie-down in the open and the prop could get rain on it for a day.
Of
> course you could probably devise a prop cover but that might not function perfectly
at
> the most vulnerable part - the roots. And as Lynn has pointed out, his prop came
from
> Florida where it had likely exposure to higher humidity so he found it necessary
to
> re-torque and then it sounded like he wasn't too confident about how long the
job
> would last.
>
> I think it would be interesting and helpful if someone could post the maintenance
> procedures for the GSC and put this required maintenance in proper perspective.
As it
> is, I don't think I know enough to ever overcome my reluctance to using a wooden
> propeller.
>
> In 1949 my uncle had a Luscombe Sedan and it was always hangared and nearly brand
new
> when on flight about 20 miles from home with a passenger, suddenly the prop separated
> and instantly ripped the engine off the firewall. As you can image what this
does to
> weight and balance. Extreme rear CG. The passenger was in his ever flight too.
Enough
> of the firewall was ripped off too that you could see through the front by your
feet.
> Both of them were smoking at the time too - Camels or Lucky Strikes and gasoline
was
> running out of the header tank probably. My uncle told the passenger to lean
forward
> as far as he could but the guy was so terrified, he could not. Well, my uncle
Vic
> landed that tail dragger on a trail in the sage brush about 10 miles northwest
of
> Othello, Washington. My uncle had crushed the lit cigarette into the palm of
his hand
> and that was the only injury. Within about a week, a sheep herder found the engine
> remains within a couple miles of the landing spot with one blade still attached.
The
> other blade was found within a quarter mile too. Maybe less. I can't remember
for sure
> who determined that it was a faulty wood prop, FAA, engine or prop manufacturer
or
> Luscombe but it was a fault in the prop. The warranty covered the prop replacement
> which was only a small part of the damage. The plane was repaired and my uncle
flew it
> for another few years until upgrading to a some Cessna tail dragger, I was only
a
> little kid then so I can't recall which model. It could have been a 140 but I
think
> bigger.
>
> So, the entire time of my youth I always thought how strange that someone would
even
> attempt to make a propeller that turned 2700 rpm out of wood. So, for me to ever
> overcome my innate fear of wooden propellers, I would have to see the written
> operating and maintenance procedures to determine if I really believed I could
live up
> to the letter of direction they state. I am so prejudiced that when I discovered
a
> Jabiru engine required a wood prop, that terminated my interest in Jabiru.
>
> My 90 year old uncle Vic, stopped flying 3 years ago because he could not renew
his
> medical since he had a pacemaker installed so he sold his C-210. My brother took
Vic
> up in a Citabria a couple weeks ago and my uncle's flying skills seemed as sharp
as
> ever. Vic landed it perfectly on their farm strip after a sight seeing trip that
> included the vicinity of that forced landing in 1949.
>
> My uncle Vic was a bit of a camera bug at the time too and he got quite a bunch
of
> photos of the landing scene and later, the discovered engine. These were of course,
> monochrome (black and white) photos but real nice. I think he's since scanned
all the
> negatives and has high them in fairly high quality. I will ask for them and post
them
> if anyone is interested.
>
> That Luscombe Sedan is still registered to someone in the San Diego area. I don't
have
> the N registration number at hand but I'll get that too. Vic told me a few years
ago
> he tracked down the registered owner of that Luscombe Sedan and told him the
story.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240738#240738
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation |
Jeff,
Excellent post. Comparing apples and oranges by someone who has eaten both
sure beats a lot of the stuff we read here.
I have a comment, though. Pardon me for maybe stepping on some toes, but
the Kitfox history reminds me of Ford's transformation of the Thunderbird
from a neat little two seater to a four seat monster - not that the Kitfox
has four seats yet, but I am pretty sure it has been considered.
The early Kitfoxes were STOL in the purest sense of the word. The Model IV
was close, especially if the builder had STOL in mind. My friend's, with
everything needed for long cross country and lots of close in flying,
weighed 604 lbs. I would bet that the newer offerings, if put on a very
restricted diet could still be built in the mid 600 lb. range, but add all
the goodies plus a heavy engine requiring ballast to boot with the same wing
as a Model IV and empty weights approaching - and occasionally exceedin 900
lbs. and performance in the STOL catagory does suffer.
Deke introduced an interesting thread on tool kits, with lots of comments on
how to maximize utility and minimize weight. Would someone who has the
adjustable rudder pedals in one of the later Kitfoxes offer an opinion as
to their utility vs. the weight penalty.
Lowell
Do not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation
>
> I built and fly a Series 5 Kitfox with an IO-240B, and am most of the way
> through building a CH801. Given your size, you will be VERY cramped in a
> Kitfox. I am quite a bit smaller, and I find it cramped (and yes I have
> the bubble doors). I can't speak for the 750, but the 801 has a LOT more
> room inside.
>
> Kit quality is the same, just different. The manuals I got for the Kitfox
> were better than those for the Zenith. However the Zenith has a lot of
> good drawings.
>
> My hangar neighbors have a Murphy Moose, they complain just as much
> about the Murphy kit as do I about Zenith, or previously the Kitfox. So
> I would say - They're all about the same with regard to building. The
> kits are all ok, but none of them are perfect.
>
> The Zenith IS a draggy plane, BUT it is probably less affected by weight
> than the Kitfox. The Kitfox flies great light, but the wing is NOT a load
> hauler. So they are different flyers. The Zenith will take off shorter,
> and
> land shorter than a Kitfox, but it won't go as fast. I really hate to say
> it,
> but I really don't think of the Kitfox as being STOL. I think of it as
> being
> a pretty straight forward tube and fabric high wing taildragger. I've been
> flying it for almost 7 years now, so I think my opinion is pretty well
> formed.
>
> Light weight, solo, the Kitfox gets of the ground really fast. But put two
> in it, and it's just another airplane.
>
> I think if you want to haul a load, and get in and out of small places
> and aren't worried about cruise speed (or looks). The 750 & 801 are
> better planes than the Kitfox. If most of your flying is solo, and you
> like flying in and out of grass strips, etc. The Kitfox is the plane.
>
> If you weigh 260, I'd seriously look at the Zenith's. The Kitfox is very
> small inside.
>
> I like both planes, they are different. I definetly would not say one is
> better than the other.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
>
>> Jeff, what are you impressions of both? Which models did you own?
>>
>> The reason why I'm very much interested in the 750 is because I am a
>> large guy (6'5 , 260lbs) and the bubble doors appealed to me. Also, I was
>> interested in using an O-200 but still having a good useful load.
>>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240513#240513
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines |
Ken - if you need to get rid of those GCS blades I may be interested. They
are an excellent prop in my opinion and the ones on my Model 2 are probably
*way* past their replace-by date, and then some.
Contact me at matronics@bob.brennan.name off-list if interested.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GCS prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter
Sent: 22 April 2009 12:39 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines
I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies in
my case ie; new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's still in
box, blades not attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and stored in a
heated shop. Anyways, you can't put a price on safety and I'll buy a new
prop if I have to and do without something else less critical for a while.
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240725#240725
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Wooden props are very fragile, much more fragile than modern composite propellers.
I have experience with this first hand, when a nylon strap gently BOUNCED
off the tip of my wood prop, and split it to the hub. Keep in mind, it just
bounced on the tip, there was NO catching of the strip on the prop, or mark on
the prop leading edge, it just gently bounced off the tip... After this incident,
I researched this issue and found very similar stories of it taking incredibly
LITTLE to break or explode a wooden prop. There are so many stories and
examples of this I can not even start to cover it here, just do your research,
there is plenty of information on this if anyone really wants to know... Maybe
one can fly safely with a fragile GSC prop, but why would anyone want such
a weak and fragile propeller that you needed to maintain and be ultra careful
with and an expert at maintaining it ?
There are plenty of better props out there, that are safer, and don't require perfect
and expert maintenance and care all the time. So while we know you can
use a GSC wood prop for many hours without a problem, its not the best.
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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| Subject: | Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines |
Wish I'd said that. :-)
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:01 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines
>
>
> Ken Potter wrote:
>> I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies
>> in my case ie; new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's
>> still in box, blades not attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and
>> stored in a heated shop. Anyways, you can't put a price on safety and
>> I'll buy a new prop if I have to and do without something else less
>> critical for a while.
>>
>> Ken
>
>
> Ken, Give Rick a call at GSC and get his advice. I agree with what you
> say. Inside , climate controlled is likely good for wood as well as the
> fact if never been tightened down.
>
> I feel a big contributing factor to the loss of strength of a GSC prop is
> the user's over tightening them down under 100 inch/pound is about 8 ft
> . lbs which is really peanuts.
>
> Then can fail but really they have a great track record.
>
> I will move this topic to a GSC thread that was just started.
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240734#240734
>
>
>
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FWIW: I needed to make a solder repair on my two meter hand held in a
confined area. I bought one of the battery soldering irons and it
worked. This one is made by Weller, (BP645) 4.5 volts, 6 watts,
purchased at Lowe's.
Norm.
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Ok here we go again , Mike mouthing off, please post some facts to back up what
you say . You see I post facts , pictures , videos to help others. Can you
?
> There are so many stories and examples of this I can not even start to cover
it here, just do your research, there is plenty of information on this if anyone
really wants to know... Maybe one can fly safely with a fragile GSC prop, but
why would anyone want such a weak and fragile propeller that you needed to
maintain and be ultra careful with and an expert at maintaining it ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240753#240753
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| Subject: | Puked props -- your misadventures |
Ok , you guys want to see real life stuff?
Here you go
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240754#240754
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation |
Would someone who has the
> adjustable rudder pedals in one of the later Kitfoxes offer an opinion as
> to their utility vs. the weight penalty.
>
> Lowell
I have them and only because they came with my kit that I purchased
unstarted from someone who had buyers remorse. Thinking they would be a
nice option I installed them, but after putting the pedals where they were
comfortable for me, it's rare that I ever change them. Perhaps if I was
using the airplane for dual instruction they might be useful, but otherwise
the extra weight and complexity could have easily been avoided and they
would not have been missed. Add to that my CD player and G meter.
Sheesh...
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 405+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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dave wrote:
> Ok here we go again , Mike mouthing off, please post some facts to back up what
you say . You see I post facts , pictures , videos to help others. Can
you ?
>
>
>
>
>
> > There are so many stories and examples of this I can not even start to cover
it here, just do your research, there is plenty of information on this if anyone
really wants to know... Maybe one can fly safely with a fragile GSC prop,
but why would anyone want such a weak and fragile propeller that you needed to
maintain and be ultra careful with and an expert at maintaining it ?
>
sooo Mike posts a first hand account of what happened to him, yet you say it is
just mouthing off. so his factual experience differs from yours and is therefore
hogwash? c'mon Dave, others besides you fly these planes and props and have
different experiences than you have had, but that does not make them BS.
I tried a GSC prop on mine and could not get that bugger to track to save my life.
I have also burned up 4 motors on 2 different planes on the IVO IFA (actually the
windings are breaking off at the armature). IVO claims that my brother and
I are the only two people that this is happening to. So just because IVO says
this cant be happening does not mean it is not really, in real world, real time
happening to me. I just had to order another one after 22 hrs of flight time.
If this one goes, I will be in the market for another prop.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
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| Subject: | Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems |
On Wed, April 22, 2009 7:54 am, earnestj0 wrote:
> Just wanted to post a final response. Thanks to all on this list over the last
year
> for help on every issue to help get me up in the air with my Vixen. I spoke with
Mr.
> Ellison yesterday and he gave me some tests to perform on the throttle body to
> determine if functioning properly. First put the fuel pump on to produce pressure,
> shut fuel shut off valve to prevent backflow, then turn it off. If the pressure
goes
> down, there is a blockage of the needle valve in the TB and gas would be leakiing
into
> the opening. Second, when engine running, turn off fuel shut of valve to stop
engine,
> then, start cranking the engine and turn the fuel shut off valve back on. These
tests
> determine if the mixture is too rich. Both tests were normal.
> So I set the timing as per Subaru to 8 BTDC instead of the NSI which I believe
is
> around 18-22 BTDC for the initial setting. I left the 1000 and 3000 RPM settings
> alone. IT STARTED EVERY TIME!!! :0
Ted - this is a good, informative and well written report. Not something you see
in
every post on this list for sure.
My impression from being around Lance is in spite of some of his arrogance and
tendency for making exaggerated claims is that his empirical analysis and writing
is
usually fairly good. So, it would be surprising to me for him to publish 18-22
BTDC
when the working value is 8 BTDC. So, I'm wondering just how it is stated in his
manual? Is it open for interpretation? You said you can set the spark advance at
multiple RPM's - idle, 1000 and 3000 RPM. Is that also true for the configuration
Lance was using for purposes of the manual you have?
What does the manual say exactly? And is this the same info Deke has for his?
I have his CAP and he delivered blades an inch shorter than stated on the invoice
and
since he is no longer in business, I might just have $3k or so tied up in something
not even worth the effort to flight test with.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
"All of this reads as if yanked from an Ayn Rand novel. The
government, in a desperate attempt to avoid political pain caused by
its own foolish economic mistakes and lax oversight, has poured
billions into bankrupt companies. Then when those companies pass out
bonuses they claim are necessary to retain qualified workers, the
political firestorm leads government officials to propose tax rates
that would make even British socialists of a half century ago blush.
We are slipping into debates that have nothing to do with a free
economy and everything to do with the government calibrating how to
balance the favors it hands out with the inevitable moral outrage
those favors engender."
-- Wall Street Journal columnist John Fund
"Some of our biggest political fallacies come from accepting words
as evidence of realities. ...[For example,] 'gun control' laws do
not control guns. The District of Columbia's very strong laws
against gun ownership have done nothing to stop the high murder
rate in Washington. New York had very strong gun control laws
decades before London did. But the murder rate in New York has
been some multiple of that in London for more than two centuries,
regardless of which city had the stronger gun control laws at a
given time. Back in 1954, when there were no restrictions on
owning shotguns in England and there were far more owners of
pistols then than there were decades later, there were only 12
cases of armed robbery in London. By the 1990s, after stringent
gun controls laws were imposed, there were well over a thousand
armed robberies a year in London. In the late 1990s, after an
almost total ban on handguns in England, gun crimes went up
another ten percent. The reason -- too obvious to be accepted by
the intelligentsia -- is that law-abiding people became more
defenseless against criminals who ignored the law and kept their
guns."
-- Hoover Institution economist Thomas Sowell
"I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be
convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my
judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home."
-- George Washington
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>
> Paul , Any prop can die. Trust me . !! No one is immune from a prop
> failure . IVO WARP NSI GSC -- I have seen them all.
This is truly amazing. Seen them all? Must be a joke?
Deke
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On Wed, April 22, 2009 9:38 am, Ken Potter wrote:
> I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies in
my case
> ie; new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's still in box, blades
not
> attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and stored in a heated shop. Anyways,
> you can't put a price on safety and I'll buy a new prop if I have to and do without
> something else less critical for a while.
Ken,
I think you meant 5 years, not 500 hours as that wouldn't make sense. I suspect
there
are exceptions to hard and fast rules that apply to you.
Before you abandon the use of your GSC wood prop, you should phone them or write
them
or both. I found this:
"ATTENTION: All owners of the GSC ground adjustable hardwood propellers, we, the
manufacturer of the GSC propeller are imposing a TBO time on all our wooden ground
adjustable propellers of either 5 years or 500 hours, whichever comes first.
We recommend that when this time has been reached, your propeller be returned to
our
factory for airworthiness inspection. Please contact our warehouse to get necessary
information on shipping method required to return goods to us."
GSC SYSTEMS
6255 OKANAGAN LANDING ROAD
VERNON, BC VIH IMS CANADA
(250) 549-3772 PH
(250) 549-3769 FAX
That's from a 2001 posting so I don't know if the phone numbers are correct but
to me
it wouldn't seem sensible to have to send it in for inspection if it has never
been
used and always stored in warm dry conditions.
Call them, my guess is you're good to go. Worst case would be that they exercise
a CYA
policy and insist on an inspection. Of course, nothing would have changed just
by
being stored for over 5 years in acceptable storage conditions.
<http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/propadvisory.htm>
OK, I'd say the phone number is fine but the address and the FAX have changed.
Here's
their web site and from reviewing it, they might want to see the prop to verify
that
it still is in balance and that it hasn't warped. Here's their website and what
should
be current contact information;
<http://www.ultralightprops.com/contact.htm>
Address: Tel: (250) 549-3772
#8 2440B 14th Avenue Fax: (250) 275-8441
Vernon, BC V1T 8C1 E-MAIL: info@ultralightprops.com
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
The biggest difference between Republicans and Democrats is the
spelling.
-- Anonymous
"President Obama inherited from George Bush a $500 billion -- and
growing -- annual budget deficit and a ballooning $11 trillion national
debt. Obama nevertheless promised us an entirely new national health
plan, bigger entitlements in education and a vast new cap-and-trade
energy program. But there is a problem in paying for the $3.5 trillion
in budgetary expenditures that Obama has called for in the coming
fiscal year. Proposed vast additional taxes on the 'rich' still won't
be enough to avoid tripling the present budget deficit -- and putting
us on schedule over the next decade to add another $9 trillion to the
existing national debt. During the Clinton years, we got higher taxes
but eventually balanced budgets. During the Bush administration, we got
lower taxes but spiraling deficits. But now during the era of Obama, we
apparently will get the worst of both worlds -- higher taxes than under
Clinton and higher deficits than under Bush. In other words, we --
through our government -- are spending money that we don't have."
-- Hoover Institution historian Victor Davis Hanson
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings.
The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-- Winston Churchill
Message 30
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I had a first hand experience with a GSC prop. I had a bird strike , all it did
was to put a little ding in the inlaid leading edge. It made more of a mess and
noise when it hit the top of the windscreen . I landed and checked the prop
and flew it for many more hours . I would fly another wood prop in a heartbeat
. Anything can and will break . Maintain it the best you can and enjoy life
. Deal with it when or if it happens.
Dave just because you are a jealous jerk does not meen that all the rest of us
have no experience at things we do and see. And no i do not have to prove it because
i know this is what happened to me .
We know you dont have to prove all the bullshit crap you do . OHHH yeah its really
cool to run your prop and engine threw a mudpuddle , that takes a genius
to to be a dumbass. Look at what happens to seaplane props and what water does
to them .
Yep Dave your a ACE in my book .
Sorry folks just tired of the bullshit from Dave
John Perry
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
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Mike,
Was this with the Kolb. Pushers are notorious for shedding prop blades with
stuff inadvertently trying to pass through the prop disc. I think they are
fundamentally bad designs and can't be fixed. Do a little research there
are reports everywhere, I don't have time to go throuth it right now, but my
advice would be to keep the prop and dump the airplane.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC props
>
> Wooden props are very fragile, much more fragile than modern composite
> propellers. I have experience with this first hand, when a nylon strap
> gently BOUNCED off the tip of my wood prop, and split it to the hub. Keep
> in mind, it just bounced on the tip, there was NO catching of the strip on
> the prop, or mark on the prop leading edge, it just gently bounced off the
> tip... After this incident, I researched this issue and found very
> similar stories of it taking incredibly LITTLE to break or explode a
> wooden prop. There are so many stories and examples of this I can not even
> start to cover it here, just do your research, there is plenty of
> information on this if anyone really wants to know... Maybe one can fly
> safely with a fragile GSC prop, but why would anyone want such a weak and
> fragile propeller that you needed to maintain and be ultra careful with
> and an expert at maintaining it ?
>
> There are plenty of better props out there, that are safer, and don't
> require perfect and expert maintenance and care all the time. So while
> we know you can use a GSC wood prop for many hours without a problem, its
> not the best.
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
> could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240739#240739
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Puked props -- your misadventures |
In your all mighty all knowing world . Was it the actual prop blade or the prop
hub that gave way .
John Perry
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation |
I can't compare to without but I like them. I fly from either side.- Bott
om line is if you are the only one to ever fly your plane, you will be happ
y without them and you will have saved weight (I don't think its much thoug
h) and complexity.- But keep in mind you might want to sell it someday.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Wed, 4/22/09, fox5flyer <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net> wrote:
From: fox5flyer <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation
<fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
Would someone who has the
> adjustable rudder pedals in one of the later Kitfoxes offer an opinion a
s
to their utility vs. the weight penalty.
>
> Lowell
I have them and only because they came with my kit that I purchased unstart
ed
from someone who had buyers remorse. Thinking they would be a nice option
I
installed them, but after putting the pedals where they were comfortable fo
r me,
it's rare that I ever change them. Perhaps if I was using the airplane for
dual instruction they might be useful, but otherwise the extra weight and
complexity could have easily been avoided and they would not have been miss
ed.
Add to that my CD player and G meter. Sheesh...
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 405+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Ellison Throttle Body Problems |
>> Just wanted to post a final response. Thanks to all on this list over
>> the last year
>> for help on every issue to help get me up in the air with my Vixen. I
>> spoke with Mr.
>> Ellison yesterday and he gave me some tests to perform on the throttle
>> body to
>> determine if functioning properly. First put the fuel pump on to produce
>> pressure,
>> shut fuel shut off valve to prevent backflow, then turn it off. If the
>> pressure goes
>> down, there is a blockage of the needle valve in the TB and gas would be
>> leakiing into
>> the opening. Second, when engine running, turn off fuel shut of valve to
>> stop engine,
>> then, start cranking the engine and turn the fuel shut off valve back on.
>> These tests
>> determine if the mixture is too rich. Both tests were normal.
>> So I set the timing as per Subaru to 8 BTDC instead of the NSI which I
>> believe is
>> around 18-22 BTDC for the initial setting. I left the 1000 and 3000 RPM
>> settings
>> alone. IT STARTED EVERY TIME!!! :0
Good feedback, Ted. Thanks. I'll have to take a look at my manual to see
what it says because mine is the normally aspirated version where I believe
you said yours was turbo? I think my "initial" setting was also 25 which
always seemed a bit high for engine start which may be part of why starting
gets cranky when temps are below 30f. I don't have my manual handy to
verify my settings, but I'll check it out.
Did you time yours by using a timing light or did you just move the pointers
on the modules? I was told that the pointers were more of a guide and one
should always use a light to ensure accuracy.
Good to hear that you have solved your problem.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 40+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Pushers are notorious for shedding prop blades with
> stuff inadvertently trying to pass through the prop disc. I think they are
> fundamentally bad designs and can't be fixed. Do a little research there
> are reports everywhere, I don't have time to go throuth it right now, but my
> advice would be to keep the prop and dump the airplane.
>
> Lowell
>
> ---
Lowell,
You are correct, many many things pass through the props in pushers, one has to
be very careful to make sure this does not happen, and then sometimes it still
does [Wink] I am not one of these people that says " What I fly is best "
just because that is what have and what I am used to. I do continual research
on this stuff, and do the work required to study and to learn new things in
aviation. When I find something new that I did not know before, I embrace it
instead of getting all defensive and posting bad information.
As far as taking your advice, I already have, I have my new Kitfox 7 SS kit sitting
at home just waiting to be built :)
Mike
I already took your advice, I am working on
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240784#240784
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dave wrote:
> Paul , Any prop can die. Trust me . !! No one is immune from a prop failure
. IVO WARP NSI GSC -- I have seen them all.
>
Any prop can fail, but that does NOT make them all equal. Just because there have
been failures of all propeller types, that does not mean they are all as LIKELY
to fail or resist damage. The fact that you imply that different props
are equal just because any of them can fail is nothing short of absurd.
dave wrote:
>
>
> Wood props are just as safe as any composite one.
>
NOT TRUE,
I have had both wooden props and various composite props, and I have learned from
the experience. My wooden prop split to the hub over a nylon strap BOUNCING
off the tip, not catching, no engine stoppage, not even a pull on the strap,
I just saw the strap bounce lightly off the tip of the disc and shut down to
secure the strap. I was in disbelief that such a non event had broken my prop
so severely.
Then we have this Report by ANOTHER PERSON here on the list:
Rick Neilson wrote:
>
>
> I did fly a wood prop on my direct drive VW powered MKIIIC and turned one prop
into tooth picks when the prop struck a tree branch were it was about 1/8 inch
dia. For that reason I will never own a pusher with a wood prop.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
>
>
After this incident I took the time to research this issue of wood props and found
plenty of evidence to show that wood props are substandard performance wise,
and overly fragile. There is a really good reason certified planes manufacturers
have quit using wooden props for the last 50 years.
Another personal experience is that I had a Lockwood manifold pressure dual guage
set go through my Warp Drive prop at full power while synching the carbs.
This aluminum, brass, and steel set was cut to little pieces by the prop, but
the prop stayed together. I did have to replace one blade, but the prop did not
explode like a wood prop or GSC would most definitely have.
And most importantly, I do not have a prop that is so fragile, and prone to coming
apart that I have to continually re torque it and baby it just to keep it
safe, and then still have replace it every 5 years. In the end, modern composite
props are vastly superior to wood, it just takes people a long time to break
old habits and embrace new technology sometimes.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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Wood is a proven material, and has many good qualities. It makes
an excellent propellor. In fact the 240B's, we had to stop using the
composite warp drives, and switch to wood because they were
cracking. I've never had a problem with my wood Sensenich, it's nice and
smooth, and after 6 years I'm still happy with it. Oh, and what's this
about changing it after 5 ...?
Jeff
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation |
Lowell -
The only reason I don't really think of MY Kitfox as STOL is:
It isn't STOL at max weight, it's GRYHND (i.e. as in bus)
The landing performance is a huge issue. There is simply
no real way to dump lift, and get a lot of drag for landing short. The
flaperons, don't really work well for generating drag. At least in notch
1, the second notch I find to be scary to use so I don't. Slips are pretty
usefull, but that's more pilot technique, than airplane.
However, MY plane, will make a Schweitzer sailplane pilot green
with envy if I come in hot as it floats, and floats, and floats, and ...
I think to be really STOL in the purest sense, it needs big barn door
flaps, AND the ability to fly and perform at Max GW.
AGAIN - Light with half tanks, I can be airborne by the first runway
light, and at pattern altitude by the end of the runway (3000 ft.). Which
never fails to impress the line of Cessna drivers where I fly. The
view out the side window and the wing looks to be 45 to the horizon
at 65 mph. SO maybe it is STOL. I might be just so used to it that
it feels normal now :)
Jeff
> The early Kitfoxes were STOL in the purest sense of the word. The Model IV
> was close, especially if the builder had STOL in mind.
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Jeff, that was just the limits that GSC imposed on their props before
inspection overhaul. 5 years, 500 hours, or 50k miles, etc. There have
been reports that GSC blades that, even though unused, were stored in their
original boxes for many years and because of positioning, humidity, or
possibly heat, there were cases of blades being warped and causing them to
be out of track. I read somewhere that when the prop is received from the
vendor (GSC) it should immediately be assembled then hung on a wall
somewhere with stable temperatures and humidity until it is time to install
on the engine. I don't know how much of this is valid, but sounded good.
It is my understanding that wood, in many cases, especially with the big
bore long stroke engines, is often the best prop because of it's ability to
absorb tortional vibration shocks without damage to the prop or crank parts.
Warp, and other props using Warp blades, even though very tough, is very
rigid and doesn't have this ability to absorb the shock of the pulses. Ever
notice the difference between a wood framing hammer and one with a
fiberglass handle? Big difference. The one with the fiberglass handle will
transmit shock right up your forearm where the wooden one absorbs most of
it. Another case is splitting mauls, of which I have a lifetime behind.
Thinking I would save on handles, I bought a Monster Maul which is a 10lb
head welded to an all steel handle. The plus side is that it will never
break or crack. The down side is that it transmits an enormous amount of
shock up through that steel handle, something the wood handle mauls don't
do. Wears me out. I keep meaning to put that thing in my next garage sale.
Might even give it away.
Now that I'm finished digressing, what does that say for aluminum? Lots of
aluminum props out there on big bores. Beyond me. Whatever works best, I
guess.
And as for wood props being fragile? I don't really think so. Maybe
compared to aluminum and glass, but if anything in many cases they can
absorb a lot of punishment without damage. My friend has a 1939 Luscombe
with the original prop still on it. Every few years he strips it, gives it
a new finish, and flies away. I believe what is best is to use what the
engine manufacturer recommends then maintain it accordingly.
Windy and rotten for the 4th day in a row!
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 405+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
>
> Wood is a proven material, and has many good qualities. It makes
> an excellent propellor. In fact the 240B's, we had to stop using the
> composite warp drives, and switch to wood because they were
> cracking. I've never had a problem with my wood Sensenich, it's nice and
> smooth, and after 6 years I'm still happy with it. Oh, and what's this
> about changing it after 5 ...?
>
> Jeff
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| Subject: | Re: Big Foot Rudder Mods |
Nick;
I have size 11 1/2 feet and original Model II rudder pedals and brakes. I'm still
under construction but spent a lot of time sitting in the cockpit, checking
out the ergonomics (and making engine noises). Bottom line was that my feet
did not fit the rudder pedals and I knew I'd be in trouble because every time
I depressed the pedals, the brakes depressed also. Solution was to adjust the
Matco cylinders as far as it would go, measure, and then I cut the brake pedals,
bent them about 25 degrees forward, and welded them in that position. Result,
the balls of my feet contact the pedals but my toes are off the brakes.
When I apply my toes to the brake pedals they are just right... in fact they
feel almost exactly like the C-150 brakes I trained on so many years ago!!!
If you like I can post or send pics.
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240797#240797
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For what it's worth hear's an actual GSC incident that I experienced.
I bought my Kitfox III in Buckeye, AZ with a fresh annual done by Murle
Williams. A few days later whan I flew it home, I was late leaving Buckeye
and flew for nearly 6 hrs but had to land in Deming, NM because sun was
about to set. The next morning while doing a walk around on my Kitfox III
,before the final leg home, I found that the blades were loose (3 blade
ground adjustable GSC prop). One blade was so loose I turned it by hand.
Now I had turned the prop by hand on each blade before leaving Buckeye and
did not notice any looseness. And since it had a fresh annual I presume
Murle checked it also during the annual.
Now to be fair to GSC, the prop was 17 years old and had about 330 hours on
it. The last time it was tightened it used up all of the adjustment as the
2 halves were in contact. GSC would probably have correctly stated that
this prop was "used up" had they been asked. I did not like how hard they
were to adjust so I bought an IVO. It is a snap to adjust.
My advice is to send the prop to GSC to have it checked, just to be sure.
Also ask them if the proper torque has changed. Let us know how it works
out.
Happy flying.
Pete
Kitfox III SN 1000 912 IVO Grove
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| Subject: | GSC props, was Brake Lines |
I'll have to be extra good for Santa!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GSC props, was Brake Lines
That should be a nice setup once you get flying it, Noel. I'm sure it will
be a big improvement and the prop should be a good match.
Having been flying behind an IFA prop for the past 9 years, I can't imagine
ever using a fixed pitch again. Its just that much better. You can set
rpm for max hp on takeoff then can dial in for best climb, cruise, or
economy. Why compromise if you don't have to especially when you can get
one that will reverse pitch so you can back right up to the dock? It's only
money... :-)
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original >
> When I get the installation of my 912 finished I will have a brand new
> warp
> drive which came with the engine. I expect with the extra horsepower I
> won't need the IFA option. If I find I will need it I may try the GSC
> mechanical hub.
>
> Noel
Message 43
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It may be a little light for rib lacing but it would be more than enough to
temporarily repair a small tear in a wing or fuse.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tool Kit
Noel, If rib lacing cord can be used for dental floss, how about reversing
that and using dental floss for rib lacing in a pinch?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tool Kit
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:58:23 -0230
>
>
> Great idea. Wax chord could also be used to start a fire or floss your
> teeth. :-) Seriously wax chord was used extensively in aircraft before the
> advent of nylon tie wraps. I have a beef with the tie wraps and that is
> when cropped if not rounded they will gash open hands reaching into an
> engine compartment tugging on things to check they are solid.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:07 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tool Kit
>
>
> Taking that thought a step further, how about a length of rib lacing
> cord? It's already got the wax impregnated in it. I used it to bundle
> some of the wires in my plane, so if I forgot to take it along with
> me, I could just rob some from the plane and not tell the FAA that
> I've now got some wires dangling. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 632.8 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2009, at 5:38 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> > Scrap the tie wraps and put in a small length of string... nylon
> > would be good.... You will be able to use the string for
> > everything to holding up shelters to tourniquets if necessary. You
> > w0uld even be able to stitch up a wing with it if you had to. Your
> > leatherman could make the holes wax from a candle would make the
> > end of the string stiff enough to push through the holes and the
> > tape would seal the repair until you get home. String can also be
> > used to do just about anything tie wraps can do only more.
> >
> > Noel
>
>
>
>
&===============
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines |
Did you check out the necessity with GSC? For the reasons you gave they may
give you an ok for a couple of years.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:09 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines
I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies in
my case ie; new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's still in
box, blades not attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and stored in a
heated shop. Anyways, you can't put a price on safety and I'll buy a new
prop if I have to and do without something else less critical for a while.
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240725#240725
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation |
Jeff,-
- You may have already found this but my Fox has a dramatic change in sin
k rate at around 50 kts.- Uncomfortable at first (feels like being in an
elevator) but there is plenty of elevator left for the flare.- Ready with
the power just in case.- I usually land with full flaps but I usually do
not deploy them until on final.- My home strip is 2000ft with trees on o
ne end.- With head wind of 10-12kts-I have landed over 40-50ft trees on
a 1000ft strip.- Maybe not as good as a Zenith but still seems short.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Wed, 4/22/09, n85ae <n85ae@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: n85ae <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation
Lowell -
The only reason I don't really think of MY Kitfox as STOL is:
It isn't STOL at max weight, it's GRYHND (i.e. as in bus)
The landing performance is a huge issue. There is simply
no real way to dump lift, and get a lot of drag for landing short. The
flaperons, don't really work well for generating drag. At least in notch
1, the second notch I find to be scary to use so I don't. Slips are pretty
usefull, but that's more pilot technique, than airplane.
However, MY plane, will make a Schweitzer sailplane pilot green
with envy if I come in hot as it floats, and floats, and floats, and ...
I think to be really STOL in the purest sense, it needs big barn door
flaps, AND the ability to fly and perform at Max GW.
AGAIN - Light with half tanks, I can be airborne by the first runway
light, and at pattern altitude by the end of the runway (3000 ft.). Which
never fails to impress the line of Cessna drivers where I fly. The
view out the side window and the wing looks to be 45 to the horizon
at 65 mph. SO maybe it is STOL. I might be just so used to it that
it feels normal now :)
Jeff
> The early Kitfoxes were STOL in the purest sense of the word. The Model I
V
> was close, especially if the builder had STOL in mind.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240791#240791
=0A=0A=0A
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I've done soldering with a match in desperate situations.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Norm Beauchamp
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tool Kit
FWIW: I needed to make a solder repair on my two meter hand held in a
confined area. I bought one of the battery soldering irons and it
worked. This one is made by Weller, (BP645) 4.5 volts, 6 watts,
purchased at Lowe's.
Norm.
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Pete - if the two hub halves were in contact your man who did the annual did
it wrong, and should never have turned the airplane over to you to fly. In
fairness I'm sure you didn't know to check that but he should have. GSC
states clearly the minimum gap allowed and being in "contact" is dangerous
and negligent on the inspector's part, no fault of the props or
manufacturer.
That's why I trained to be a certified inspector - who you gonna trust with
your life up there ;-)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Christensen
Sent: 22 April 2009 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC props
<apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
For what it's worth hear's an actual GSC incident that I experienced.
I bought my Kitfox III in Buckeye, AZ with a fresh annual done by Murle
Williams. A few days later whan I flew it home, I was late leaving Buckeye
and flew for nearly 6 hrs but had to land in Deming, NM because sun was
about to set. The next morning while doing a walk around on my Kitfox III
,before the final leg home, I found that the blades were loose (3 blade
ground adjustable GSC prop). One blade was so loose I turned it by hand.
Now I had turned the prop by hand on each blade before leaving Buckeye and
did not notice any looseness. And since it had a fresh annual I presume
Murle checked it also during the annual.
Now to be fair to GSC, the prop was 17 years old and had about 330 hours on
it. The last time it was tightened it used up all of the adjustment as the
2 halves were in contact. GSC would probably have correctly stated that
this prop was "used up" had they been asked. I did not like how hard they
were to adjust so I bought an IVO. It is a snap to adjust.
My advice is to send the prop to GSC to have it checked, just to be sure.
Also ask them if the proper torque has changed. Let us know how it works
out.
Happy flying.
Pete
Kitfox III SN 1000 912 IVO Grove
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Exactly my point about GSC, when a prop needs so much attention, and is so likely
to become out of tolerance to be safe, it is substandard. You can always
use the excuse, " It was not adjusted properly ". There is no reason to fly
with props that have to be constantly checked, and adjusted, and that are very
likely to be out of some unrealistic hard to keep tolerances when such
Modern, well designed props are trouble free, you set them up properly and they
just work. You don't find people making excuses for Warp Drives and other props
that they came loose because of this or that they were not torqued every other
flight, or that the humidity messed them up. etc. etc. No excuses for GSC.
A modern well designed prop will just work.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240832#240832
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter Mitigation |
Maxwell -
I take it you're doing this with 1 notch of flaperons? Winds permitting I
might work on this tommorrow after work. I generally slip it in around
60, and then start flaring after the slip. 50 seems slow, but still there's
probably about 10 mph left. If I bend the gear, I'll blame you. :)
Definetly don't want to do that if it's gusting at all. Even with my normal
style landings, I've had some wind shift and pretty dramatic sink at
times.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240836#240836
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Mike,
I fly and enjoy my GSC prop, and respect the maintenance that is required
for it to deliver the attributes I expect of it and have come to appreciate.
I feel it is important, and appropriate, to share this with any list member
that wants to share this information.
We have heard, and I respect, your opinion on this subject. Please allow
others to express their opinions as well without shooting down every post
that is not in agreement with yours.
Thank you,
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
Sent: 22 April 2009 8:36 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC props
Exactly my point about GSC, when a prop needs so much attention, and is so
likely to become out of tolerance to be safe, it is substandard. You can
always use the excuse, " It was not adjusted properly ". There is no
reason to fly with props that have to be constantly checked, and adjusted,
and that are very likely to be out of some unrealistic hard to keep
tolerances when such
Modern, well designed props are trouble free, you set them up properly and
they just work. You don't find people making excuses for Warp Drives and
other props that they came loose because of this or that they were not
torqued every other flight, or that the humidity messed them up. etc. etc.
No excuses for GSC. A modern well designed prop will just work.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240832#240832
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Mike , we can still buy wood props for our GA aircraft and there is nothing wrong
with using them . They take up much of the vibration and wood basically has
a infinite life unless damaged . Yes we even have to re-torque our wood props.
humidity and heat are the two factors here .
Take care everyone fly safe
JOhn
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
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Yesterday:
It was hotter than hell in Ramona, but fantastically clear,
so I flew an hour north toward Big Bear. Just south of Big Bear
airport there's a 12k' mountain called San Gorgornio that the Boy
Scouts will be climbing in a month or so. So I climbed on up and
checked out the trail and the scenery. Much of the trail was still
covered by snow, but much I could trace. It was interesting to note
that people had built rock shelters on the peak to enable them to
camp out of the wind. The airport's situated in the mountains at
about 6800' off the end of a lake. It was only 68F there so I stopped
and had an excellent tuna melt at the restaurant, then just sat
around for a while reading and enjoying the cool air. Climb-out in
the 8800' density altitude (They have a digital sign at both ends
that tells you the density altitude real-time.) was slow but steady.
Once across the lake I picked up some strong thermals enabling me to
climb up and out.
Today:
After dinner I flew out west to enjoy the sunset over the
marine layer. Here on SoCal we frequently get an inversion that holds
moist cool air down below 1000 - 1500' west of the coastal mountains.
I took some pictures then high-tailed it back to Ramona to get on the
ground before sunset. (No lights, you know.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
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