Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:13 AM - Re: Lift Reserve (dave)
2. 03:14 AM - Re: Angle of Attack instrument (dave)
3. 03:23 AM - Re: GSC props (dave)
4. 03:30 AM - Re: Newbie questions, which easier to fly a Kitfox or a CH 701 (dave)
5. 03:35 AM - Kitfox IV for sale 912 Very good pricing 22,800 (dave)
6. 03:36 AM - Re: Charging system trouble shooting (dave)
7. 03:40 AM - Re: Newbie questions, which easier to fly a Kitfox or a CH 701 (dave)
8. 05:52 AM - Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter MitigationKitfox Control Surface (Catz631@aol.com)
9. 06:56 AM - Re: Newbie questions, which easier to fly a Kitfox or a CH 701 (JetPilot)
10. 09:23 AM - Re: Lift Reserve (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc)
11. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Charging system trouble shooting (Dave G)
12. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Charging system trouble shooting (Noel Loveys)
13. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: GSC props (Noel Loveys)
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve |
Lift reserve AOA -- Best price I seen
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=73
125$ US
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
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Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack instrument |
Here is another one http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=73
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241182#241182
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Now that GSC are once again a good prop here is one that I had to fix the broken
engine mount on a couple of years ago . This one was always kept indoors,
never over tightened. Wood did not seem rotted and blades were not loose.
http://www.cfisher.com/gsc/
Owner was in Mid 80s at the time and noticed on run up something was not right
and taxied back to his hangar and a few feet from the door it shed one blade.
Usually when a prop departs on a Rotax the carbs jump out of the rubber boots
and engine shuts down.
JetPilot wrote:
> Lowell,
>
> You observation of the numbers of GSC props sold and reported problems does make
a very good point. I have to agree with you, given the numbers of props sold,
GSC props are not dangerous if installed properly. I would not take that
to mean they are the best prop available now, a lot of advancements have been
made in sport propellers since the 1980's when kitfoxes started using GSC props.
>
> This thread has been one of the better ones this forum has seen in a while.
A reminder of important maintenance procedures is a a good thing. I think the
many people here flying with GSC props will be extra vigilant in making sure
their props are properly cared for and properly torqued. This is even better
information for those buying a used Kitfox with a GSC prop already on it, they
will most likely do a better inspection and re torquing of the prop given the
information here.
>
> Mike
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241183#241183
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions, which easier to fly a Kitfox or a CH |
701
701 is a high drag airplane. The glide ratio is far less that a Kitfox.
Here is some Deadsticking in a Kitfox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm1iqcn8nFM
motoadve wrote:
> Thanks a lot for the replies.
>
> Wouldnt the CH 701 be safer at a stall speed of 30mph instead of 37of the kitfox
4 or 41 in the Super sport?
>
> According to this numbers the Kitfox will stop flying before the CH 701 in case
of an emergency.
>
> Im not expert at all so flame away.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241184#241184
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| Subject: | Kitfox IV for sale 912 Very good pricing 22,800 |
Look on Barnstormers for pics
I know nothing about this plane other that is a excellent priced Kitfox.
BRS , Radiso, GPS, transponder worth 5k alone. so you get a 912 less that a new
one with a prop and 200 hours. PLane is free --
cheap .
KITFOX IV #1200 $22,800 FLY RIGHT NOW Kitfox Model IV Registration - N96MJ Built
1996 Total Time AF and Engine 200 Hours Engine Rotax 912UL 80 HP New Factory
Supplied Reinforced Motor Mount Oil Cooler 2 - 13 Gallon Fuel Tanks (26
Gallons Total) Propeller IVO 3 bladed in flight adjustable Dual Controls Grove
Landing Gear Whelen Strobes BRS Ballistic Chute (Needs to be repacked due to
recommended time between packs) Dual in cabin heater installed Electronics: Bendix
King KLX135A GPS/Radio with moving map display Bendix King KT76A Transponder
Sigtronics SPA-400 stereo intercom with music switcher All Logs Contact
John H. Smith, Owner - located Broadalbin, NY USA Telephone: 518-883-4337 Posted
April 16, 2009
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241185#241185
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system trouble shooting |
Did you check the voltage yet ?
dave wrote:
> James, Have you checked your battery ?
> - Fluid level -- top with distilled water and slow charge over night
> - once charge put on a load test.
>
> I assume that after you put on the key west regulator that you ran a voltage
check ? You should be getting about 14 V with engine running and 12.5 to 13.2
with engine off
>
>
>
> Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241186#241186
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions, which easier to fly a Kitfox or a CH |
701
I have a friend with a 701 912 ul .
I have a kitfox 582 that is faster cruise and take offs not much different.
His angle of climb a bit steeper.
He wants to travel further and faster and just finished a Sonex with jab 3300.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241187#241187
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Control Surface Flutter MitigationKitfox Control |
Surface
Pat and Bob,
Thanks for updating me on the "hingeless" aileron that the Zenith 601/650
has. Very good article.
Dick Maddux
Pensacola,Fl
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie questions, which easier to fly a Kitfox or a CH |
701
motoadve wrote:
> Thanks a lot for the replies.
>
> Wouldnt the CH 701 be safer at a stall speed of 30mph instead of 37of the kitfox
4 or 41 in the Super sport?
>
> According to this numbers the Kitfox will stop flying before the CH 701 in case
of an emergency.
>
>
You can put VG's ( Vortex Generators ) on the Kitfox, and the stall numbers will
be very close to the CH-701 if not the same... When you are only talking 2
or 3 MPH, there is no safety difference anymore due to speed, other things become
much more important.
The Superior glide ratio of the Kitfox is a HUGE safety factor. Lets say you where
at an altitude where you could glide a mile in a Zenair CH-701 and your engine
quit, that would give you an area of 3.14
Square miles that you could land in. Now lets say you were in a Kitfox that has
twice the glide ratio and your engine quit, you would have an area of 12.5
square miles in which to find a landing area. In other words, if you double
the glide of an airplane, you have FOUR TIMES the amount of area to search potential
landing spots. I am not saying the Kitfox does have exactly twice the
glide, but it is a LOT better than the CH-701, and every time you double the
glide ratio, landing areas increase by a factor of FOUR !!
The Kitfox will also give you more time in an engine out situation due to its much
lower sink rate. Again, would you rather have 1 minute to chose a spot, and
execute an emergency landing, or 2 minutes, the Kitfox has a HUGE safety advantage
over the Zenith CH-701 in an engine out situation.
So that is the engine out performance comparison in a nutshell, Dave, did you read
my post about the performance comparison of the Kitfox and the Zenair CH-701
that is located here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=57516
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241208#241208
Message 10
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Ok here is a summary of all of the info available on Lift Reserve
indicators on the net. Its all there for you to sort out!!
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 07040300014143&catname=air&qty
1&item=21-1623
http://www.ronleclerc.com/photos/panel/liftreserve-gaugefaces.pdf
http://www.ronleclerc.com/photos/panel/lri-guage6.jpg
http://www.ronleclerc.com/photos/panel/lri-guage2.jpg
http://glasairproject.com/GlasairI/docs/AirsoobLRI.pdf
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm
http://lri.kit.googlepages.com/
http://www.liftreserve.com/
The probes could be had from John Bolding jnbolding1@teleshare.net and
Scott at http://www.cooknwithgas.com/LRI.html
I purchased mine from John Bolding for $30!
http://www.ronleclerc.com/photos/panel/lri-guage5.jpg
http://www.pipcom.com/~cowcam/AOAr.htm
There is a lot of info to go through... the most expensive one you can buy
is a heated unit at http://www.liftreserve.com/ if you decide to buy one!
R.D.(Ron) Leclerc
CH701 Plans(Scrap) Builder #7-6699
Porsche Power Geared Redrive
Winnipeg, MB Canada
infow@mts.net
4/25/2009 11:14:29 AM
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:-(
:-(
:-( Randy,
:-(
:-( Below is the reply from Kelly, along with a shout-out to you.
:-(
:-( His kit is at http://lri.kit.googlepages.com and looks really
:-( good, at the same price you paid for it. I'll be getting one!
:-(
:-( Thanks again for the reference Randy,
:-(
:-( Bob Brennan - N717GB
:-( ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
:-( 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
:-( Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
:-( Wrightsville Pa
:-(
:-(
:-( ------------------------------------------------------------------
:-( ---------- ---- From: Kelly Meiste
:-( [mailto:kellymeiste@jcwifi.com] Sent: 24 April 2009 4:41 pm To:
:-( matronics@bob.brennan.name Subject: Re: Lift Reserve
:-(
:-(
:-( Hi Bob,
:-(
:-( Thank you for the info, glad Randy is enjoying his kit!
:-(
:-( Here's the link to my website, not much has changed.
:-( lri.kit.googlepages.com
:-(
:-( Price is still the same, but I've added a few more options (black
:-( gauge overlay, and a longer tube option).
:-(
:-( Thanks for the interest, let me know if I can answer any more
:-( questions for you.
:-(
:-( Best regards,
:-( Kelly
:-(
:-( PS. Feel free to post anything about my kit (good OR bad).
:-(
:-(
:-( ----- Original Message -----
:-( From: Bob Brennan
:-( To: kellymeiste@jcwifi.com
:-( Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 12:30 PM
:-( Subject: Lift Reserve
:-(
:-(
:-( Kelly,
:-(
:-( There is a discussion going on right now about Lift Reserve on
:-( the Matronics Kitfox list, started by Randy Daughenbaugh who has
:-( raved about how good it is. I went to http://www.liftreserve.com/
:-( right away and would have ordered it on the spot just from
:-( Randy's recommendation but was stunned by the $450 +$35 S&H
:-( price. He said he had "paid $175 for it but that was a few years
:-( ago" and that I should get in touch with you directly. At a
:-( better price I would order one right away and if I were to post
:-( it on the mailing list, with your permission of course, I think
:-( you would get several orders today alone.
:-(
:-( Thanks in advance,
:-( Bob Brennan
:-(
:-(
:-( List Features Navigator to browse
:-( = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
:-( your generous support!
:-( -> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system trouble shooting |
Heres how your charging sytem works. I should caution that while it's
extremely simple, if you have no idea how electricity works, maybe you
should recruit someone who does.
You have a series of coils on your engine, by the flywheel. They come out to
two wires one yellow and one yellow with a black stripe. Those wires have a
resistance between them of about .5 of an OHM, on a cheap meter that as
close to a short as you can see. You should then connect one side of your
ohm meter to the engine block and the other side to one of those yellow
wires, you should see an infinite resistance, an open. The magnets we'll
take on faith.
When the engine is spinning you will get AC electricity generated out those
two wires, the power available increases with RPM's voltage will top out far
beyond anything you want (about 40V) when there is no load. This AC goes
into the yellow wires on the stock rotax RR (rectifier/regulator), two of
the yellow wires on a Tympanium, or the terminals marked input (ac) on your
Key West. (the stock unit is also made by Tympanium, but they are not
identical)
Each of these units will rectify AC to DC and in the case of the stock and
Tympanium rectifiers dump all excess power to ground, supplying 12-14 V DC
out the red wire on the stock unit and the black wire on the Tympanium. The
return path on the stock unit is the black wire which goes to the best
ground you can find, on the tympanium the case is the return path, it must
be grounded and running a separate ground wire to the electrical GND by the
battery wouldn't hurt. For the Key West, the + terminal goes to the positive
side of the battery and the - terminal goes to the best GND you can find.
There should be NO resistance between the battery - and the rectifier - and
a suitable gauge should be used for about 16A current on both leads along
with suitable fuses and or relays. There is no indication of a requirement
to ground the case on the Key West in any documentation that I can find, but
it couldn't hurt, even if it's just to help shed heat. The Tympanium and the
stock unit case must be grounded.
When the engine is running, if you are brave enough to get hear the big
spinning thing, you will see up to 40V AC on the open circuit yellow wires,
and you should see 12.5-14V on the output of the Tympanium and the Key West,
that's between + and - with nothing else connected. With the stock RR you'll
get a whole range of high voltages because it can't regulate without a load,
connect a lamp (taillight or something similar) and measure across that and
you should get the same 12-13 V. After you connect it to the battery, you
will of course see 11.8-12.8V in any case. You can see if the voltage rises
across the battery while the engine runs, it should go up to 13.1-13.5 a
little higher is OK.
There is a possibility that there exists a resistance in the AC side that
cannot be seen until current is flowing, it will appear as low resistance to
the meter but will restrict current flow, it's rare(ish) and I'd bet that
it's not your problem. It will exhibit as lower voltage as load increases
(without battery) but it is easy to fool yourself as this is also normal,
it's a matter of degree and it really requires experience to diagnose.
As far as your Hobbs goes, if you have run the engine for a couple of hours
and no measured it, it's a sure bet you have it hooked up wrong or it's
broken. The hobbs is a simple clock that runs as long as it sees the
appropriate voltage (DC in most cases) on the terminals. if you hooked it to
the master it will clock all the time the master is on. It should not in any
case be hooked to the yellow wires.
I have no idea if this will help, and if your aircraft bursts into flames or
you damage somethng by doing anything I've said, it's all on you!
If someone sees an error in the above point it out, don't get into the finer
points of electron flow or power calculations, think grade school level of
electrics.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system trouble shooting |
I'd still start with the grounding. All regulators require grounding
whether through a wire or through the case.
Assuming your grounding is good put an AC volt tester across the two yellow
or yellow and red tracer wires coming from the magneto end of the engine and
run the engine. You should see some AC voltage on your meter. In fact you
should see a decent voltage ??? 12 - 15VAC.??? If you don't see any voltage
there with the engine running you definitely have a problem with the
lighting coil in the magneto.
Assuming you have good AC voltage in the two yellow wires then the problem
has to be in the regulator. Actuallyu it's a regulator/ rectifier bridge.
Noelimg002.jpg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:17 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Charging system trouble shooting
<james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
So does it matter about the grounding so much now that the type of regulator
is clarified? What is a logical starting point for trouble shooting,
assuming the battery is fine, and the mags are fine?
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
Just about ready to take my check ride.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241173#241173
Message 13
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I notice the glue collar completely separated from the root cuff. That one
may have been caught by a careful inspection of the cuffs.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC props
Now that GSC are once again a good prop here is one that I had to fix the
broken engine mount on a couple of years ago . This one was always kept
indoors, never over tightened. Wood did not seem rotted and blades were not
loose.
http://www.cfisher.com/gsc/
Owner was in Mid 80s at the time and noticed on run up something was not
right and taxied back to his hangar and a few feet from the door it shed one
blade. Usually when a prop departs on a Rotax the carbs jump out of the
rubber boots and engine shuts down.
JetPilot wrote:
> Lowell,
>
> You observation of the numbers of GSC props sold and reported problems
does make a very good point. I have to agree with you, given the numbers of
props sold, GSC props are not dangerous if installed properly. I would not
take that to mean they are the best prop available now, a lot of
advancements have been made in sport propellers since the 1980's when
kitfoxes started using GSC props.
>
> This thread has been one of the better ones this forum has seen in a
while. A reminder of important maintenance procedures is a a good thing.
I think the many people here flying with GSC props will be extra vigilant in
making sure their props are properly cared for and properly torqued. This
is even better information for those buying a used Kitfox with a GSC prop
already on it, they will most likely do a better inspection and re torquing
of the prop given the information here.
>
> Mike
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241183#241183
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