Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/18/09 (dave)
2. 05:53 AM - Re: Gross weight VS DA (Tom Jones)
3. 05:55 AM - Re: lexan (Tom Jones)
4. 06:03 AM - 582 on floats question?? (rical)
5. 06:22 AM - Re: Fw: Avid Gear (dholly)
6. 06:48 AM - Re: Fw: Avid Gear (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
7. 07:08 AM - Re: 582 on floats question?? (Noel)
8. 12:44 PM - Re: 582 on floats question?? (rical)
9. 08:19 PM - Re: Fw: Avid Gear (Don Hudgeon)
10. 08:22 PM - Re: Re: Fw: Avid Gear (Don Hudgeon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/18/09 |
When on wheels use the top hole
When I convert to floats i Lower the horiz stab to the lower hole
Mine is a model IV
My first choice is top hole. Also I have no elevator trim and flys hands free.
If you have trim then it would likely not matter what hole you use.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249474#249474
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| Subject: | Re: Gross weight VS DA |
I'm glad to hear the 582's are affected by DA too. My Kitfox with 503 is very
sensitive to DA and weight.
James, Some 582 drivers repitch the prop and/or rejet the carbs with the seasons,
summer and winter.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249493#249493
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James, I did the same as you.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249494#249494
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| Subject: | 582 on floats question?? |
HI, I'm looking to buy a kitfox 3 or 4 and wondering if a 582 will be
good enough on floats (with a passenger). I'm looking at Puddlejumpers
amphies floats, about 150LBS. Any comments and numbers would be appreciated!
Noel, I think you had a 582 with IVO IFA, was it good enough??
regards
Richard
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Avid Gear |
Don,
There was a recent discussion on the Avid Flyer Yahoo Group forum about repairing
bent seat trusses. One poster added a link to several photos about his repair
where several tubes were cut out and replaced. I suppose it is a job someone
with the appropriate tools and skill could tackle, but nothing I would attempt.
It certainly looks as if the truss in your pic would benefit from a complete
replacement, maybe even some of the side longerons too. As mentioned, I would
find a way to ensure the fuse was aligned properly before doing so. If you
are anywhere near Airdale, perhaps they can jig the fuse and do the repair for
you. As of Jan '09, Airdale Flyer, LLC has a new name, address and owner. New
contact info is:
Airdale Sportplane and Supply
W175 Hildebrand Lake Road
Rhinelander, WI 54501
email: sales@airdale.com
website: www.airdale.com
tel: (715) 369-1343
owner: Brett McKinney
As an aside, it seems many of these bent seat truss incidents could have easily
been avoided if the bungee installation was done correctly with the proper number
of wraps and correct MIL Spec cord (your pic looks correct). Here's a helpful
post I saved:
> The LATEST bungees that AVID Made --post 1993 were different than earlier types.
Mainly because the empty weight and gross weight INCREASED. We in the Uk,
found that the earlier bungees, a kind of SILVERY Outer with Black flecks in them,
were commercial Bungee cord as found in sports stores etc. and very very
weak / inconsistent in "stretchiness" The book /manual just stated something like
put as many wraps on as you could get...not good---some people managed 6 others
8 and some even 9--the more wraps the LESS stretch till finally no stretch
and then solid gear- heavy landing no stretch so they bent and broke the seat
truss, propeller, wing tip flaperon etc $$$$ We found that the OLD cord was
too lightweight to comply with landing gear loads and we found that a Mil Spec
cord met all the requirement necessary---- Kitfoxes went the same way!! After
1993 Avid used Mil spec cord TOTALLY-- we have done so ALL the time. This cord
is a Beigeish Outer Cottony braid with colored flecks in it-- the color could
be just one color or maybe two--this is a date code of manufacture so varies
from batch to batch. On all Avids, with these cords, the wraps are 7 and Seven
only--you cannot physically get more than 7--it just won't stretch that far.
(It is 8 full wraps on OUR WIDE Gear) The way to wrap the bungee is to measure
the overall length first. Loop to loop... should be around 90". Divide this
number by 7 (approx 13") (= number of wraps). Start at one end of bungee and
use a pencil/marker and measure/mark 6.5" 'ish. Then mark again at 19.5", 32.5",
45.5" and so on till end. Last mark will be abouit 6.5" 'ish from loop. To
install use two people... or Adult + Child... Put child inside cockpit and have
them feed the cord thru the gap. 2nd person underneath.. Hook cord on peg in
cockpit and feed down thru gap. Pull to first mark on bottom of gearleg..easy----
about 3/8" stretch put thumb on mark on gear leg--feed back up thru gap and
get helper to loop around seat truss and feed end back. Pull end thru and get
second !
mark on
gear leg--- Thumb on 2nd mark and then feed back up again. Continues until you
have all marks in line on bottom of gear leg and hook the final leg back onto
other side of peg-- This is easiest way to do it, does not need some WWF guy to
stretch and hold in place AND gives EVEN tension in the cord... Works every
time... Should be similar with Kfoxes --but cord lengths different and maybe #of
wraps...
> Best regards,
> Steve at Airdale..
Also, rather than welding on reinforcing steel to your perfectly good seat truss
and risk heat softening the tubes, it is recommended that 1/4" ply gussets be
epoxied into the truss bridgework (see pic). Theory being, it will help keep
the top tube from being deformed in a hard landing, but give if sufficiently
hard and prevent transferring bending force to other framework.
Hope that helps, good luck.
-Doug
--------
Airdale Avid+ project | Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249502#249502
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/truss_688.jpeg
Message 6
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This is not a completly uncommon thing to happen on an Avid in a hard landi
ng=2C the seat truss is a bit of a weak point. Avid recommended filling th
e spaces between the truss tubing with 1/4" plywood as a way to strengthen
the truss. I've had some experience with buckling a truss myself on my MK
IV Avid. It had been repaired before I got it and I think it ended up weak
er than it should have been=2C because it bent on me and I didn't think I h
it all that hard. I'm not trying to chase you off this list or anything=2C
but if you look in the Yahoo groups Avid list archives=2C there is a lot o
f info about seat trusses. I know there is info on the width you should ha
ve between the tubing at the ends of the truss=2C because I asked that ques
tion and it was answered by Steve Winder and others. (Steve ran the Avid f
actory for years) Looking at yours=2C I would probably suggest cutting out
the old truss and replacing it with a new one. You could also just get th
e tubing and cut and fit all the new pieces back in. When I repaired mine
=2C I cut the fabric back to the back of the doors and then replaced that m
uch after the repair. If you want to talk about it=2C send me your # and
I can call you. Take care=2C Jim Chuk
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fwd: Avid Gear
From: don@hudgeon.com
I am I new poster and have a few questions in reference to the discussion o
n landing gear and bungees. I am seriously considering purchasing an Avid M
K 4 with about 160 hours total time. It has Stratus EA81 and lengthened fus
elage. The truss assembly shown in the pics has been bent and obviously bee
n repaired quite poorly. I have checked with Airdale and they now have a up
dated version available from heavier wall 5/8 tubing. Airdale advises they
have supplied about 3 or 4 of these just this spring!
Anyway someone here has stated that this is a most difficult structural rep
air to make. Have any of you ever done this and what should I be on the loo
kout for. Also can anyone give me an opinion as to what else I should be su
specting or is this a fairly common failure to this truss.
You comments are WELCOME!!! Hope the pic is OK
Cheers Don
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto
rial_Storage_062009
Message 7
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| Subject: | 582 on floats question?? |
I think the plane would have been good enough to carry two depending on
weight.
My plane has an MTOW of only 950lb and I've never gone over that weight.
Full tanks, myself, fishing and emerg gear comes out around 35 lb short of
that weight. The 582 has very high power to weight ratio the Ivo lets you
take advantage of all of it.
Just of the record with the ivo my initial ROC from sea level is above
1500ft/min. Tanks full. Climb to altitude under 3000 averages just over
100 ft/min. As far as I can make out I use around 4 gal/ hr cruising and
close to twice that doing T&Gs.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rical
Sent: 22 June 2009 10:30
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 on floats question??
HI, I'm looking to buy a kitfox 3 or 4 and wondering if a 582 will be
good enough on floats (with a passenger). I'm looking at Puddlejumpers
amphies floats, about 150LBS. Any comments and numbers would be appreciated!
Noel, I think you had a 582 with IVO IFA, was it good enough??
regards
Richard
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 582 on floats question?? |
Thanks Noel for your reply.Sorry, but what is ROC? Climb to altitude
under 3000' is only 100 ft/min with floats?
Richard
Noel wrote:
>
> I think the plane would have been good enough to carry two depending on
> weight.
>
> My plane has an MTOW of only 950lb and I've never gone over that weight.
> Full tanks, myself, fishing and emerg gear comes out around 35 lb short of
> that weight. The 582 has very high power to weight ratio the Ivo lets you
> take advantage of all of it.
>
> Just of the record with the ivo my initial ROC from sea level is above
> 1500ft/min. Tanks full. Climb to altitude under 3000 averages just over
> 100 ft/min. As far as I can make out I use around 4 gal/ hr cruising and
> close to twice that doing T&Gs.
>
> Noel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rical
> Sent: 22 June 2009 10:30
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 on floats question??
>
>
> HI, I'm looking to buy a kitfox 3 or 4 and wondering if a 582 will be
> good enough on floats (with a passenger). I'm looking at Puddlejumpers
> amphies floats, about 150LBS. Any comments and numbers would be appreciated!
> Noel, I think you had a 582 with IVO IFA, was it good enough??
>
> regards
>
> Richard
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Avid Gear |
Hi Jim
Thanks for the valuable information. I will look on the Yahoo site. Was
yours bent about the same as this? Did you have any distortion on the
longerons? If I do buy this I will probably have Airdale make me up a new
updated truss.
Cheers
Don
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:45 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe@hotmail.com>wro
te:
> This is not a completly uncommon thing to happen on an Avid in a hard
> landing, the seat truss is a bit of a weak point. Avid recommended filli
ng
> the spaces between the truss tubing with 1/4" plywood as a way to strengt
hen
> the truss. I've had some experience with buckling a truss myself on my M
K
> IV Avid. It had been repaired before I got it and I think it ended up
> weaker than it should have been, because it bent on me and I didn't think
I
> hit all that hard. I'm not trying to chase you off this list or anything
,
> but if you look in the Yahoo groups Avid list archives, there is a lot of
> info about seat trusses. I know there is info on the width you should ha
ve
> between the tubing at the ends of the truss, because I asked that questio
n
> and it was answered by Steve Winder and others. (Steve ran the Avid fact
ory
> for years) Looking at yours, I would probably suggest cutting out the ol
d
> truss and replacing it with a new one. You could also just get the tubin
g
> and cut and fit all the new pieces back in. When I repaired mine, I cut
the
> fabric back to the back of the doors and then replaced that much after t
he
> repair. If you want to talk about it, send me your # and I can call you.
> Take care, Jim Chuk
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:40:34 -0700
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fwd: Avid Gear
> From: don@hudgeon.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I am I new poster and have a few questions in reference to the discussion
> on landing gear and bungees. I am seriously considering purchasing an Avi
d
> MK 4 with about 160 hours total time. It has Stratus EA81 and lengthened
> fuselage. The truss assembly shown in the pics has been bent and obviousl
y
> been repaired quite poorly. I have checked with Airdale and they now have
a
> updated version available from heavier wall 5/8 tubing. Airdale advises t
hey
> have supplied about 3 or 4 of these just this spring!
> Anyway someone here has stated that this is a most difficult structural
> repair to make. Have any of you ever done this and what should I be on th
e
> lookout for. Also can anyone give me an opinion as to what else I should
be
> suspecting or is this a fairly common failure to this truss.
>
> You comments are WELCOME!!! Hope the pic is OK
>
> Cheers Don
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits.
Check
> it out.<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_
WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Avid Gear |
G`day Doug
Thanks again for this info. I can`t believe how responsive and helpful folks
on this site are. Will keep you posted.
Cheers
Don
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:21 AM, dholly <oue191@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Don,
>
> There was a recent discussion on the Avid Flyer Yahoo Group forum about
> repairing bent seat trusses. One poster added a link to several photos about
> his repair where several tubes were cut out and replaced. I suppose it is a
> job someone with the appropriate tools and skill could tackle, but nothing I
> would attempt. It certainly looks as if the truss in your pic would benefit
> from a complete replacement, maybe even some of the side longerons too. As
> mentioned, I would find a way to ensure the fuse was aligned properly before
> doing so. If you are anywhere near Airdale, perhaps they can jig the fuse
> and do the repair for you. As of Jan '09, Airdale Flyer, LLC has a new name,
> address and owner. New contact info is:
>
> Airdale Sportplane and Supply
> W175 Hildebrand Lake Road
> Rhinelander, WI 54501
> email: sales@airdale.com
> website: www.airdale.com
> tel: (715) 369-1343
> owner: Brett McKinney
>
> As an aside, it seems many of these bent seat truss incidents could have
> easily been avoided if the bungee installation was done correctly with the
> proper number of wraps and correct MIL Spec cord (your pic looks correct).
> Here's a helpful post I saved:
>
> > The LATEST bungees that AVID Made --post 1993 were different than earlier
> types. Mainly because the empty weight and gross weight INCREASED. We in the
> Uk, found that the earlier bungees, a kind of SILVERY Outer with Black
> flecks in them, were commercial Bungee cord as found in sports stores etc.
> and very very weak / inconsistent in "stretchiness" The book /manual just
> stated something like put as many wraps on as you could get...not
> good---some people managed 6 others 8 and some even 9--the more wraps the
> LESS stretch till finally no stretch and then solid gear- heavy landing no
> stretch so they bent and broke the seat truss, propeller, wing tip flaperon
> etc $$$$ We found that the OLD cord was too lightweight to comply with
> landing gear loads and we found that a Mil Spec cord met all the requirement
> necessary---- Kitfoxes went the same way!! After 1993 Avid used Mil spec
> cord TOTALLY-- we have done so ALL the time. This cord is a Beigeish Outer
> Cottony braid with colored fl!
> ecks in it-- the color could be just one color or maybe two--this is a
> date code of manufacture so varies from batch to batch. On all Avids, with
> these cords, the wraps are 7 and Seven only--you cannot physically get more
> than 7--it just won't stretch that far. (It is 8 full wraps on OUR WIDE
> Gear) The way to wrap the bungee is to measure the overall length first.
> Loop to loop... should be around 90". Divide this number by 7 (approx 13")
> (= number of wraps). Start at one end of bungee and use a pencil/marker and
> measure/mark 6.5" 'ish. Then mark again at 19.5", 32.5", 45.5" and so on
> till end. Last mark will be abouit 6.5" 'ish from loop. To install use two
> people... or Adult + Child... Put child inside cockpit and have them feed
> the cord thru the gap. 2nd person underneath.. Hook cord on peg in cockpit
> and feed down thru gap. Pull to first mark on bottom of gearleg..easy----
> about 3/8" stretch put thumb on mark on gear leg--feed back up thru gap and
> get helper to loop arou!
> nd seat truss and feed end back. Pull end thru and get second !
> mark on
>
> gear leg--- Thumb on 2nd mark and then feed back up again. Continues until
> you have all marks in line on bottom of gear leg and hook the final leg back
> onto other side of peg-- This is easiest way to do it, does not need some
> WWF guy to stretch and hold in place AND gives EVEN tension in the cord...
> Works every time... Should be similar with Kfoxes --but cord lengths
> different and maybe #of wraps...
> > Best regards,
> > Steve at Airdale..
>
> Also, rather than welding on reinforcing steel to your perfectly good seat
> truss and risk heat softening the tubes, it is recommended that 1/4" ply
> gussets be epoxied into the truss bridgework (see pic). Theory being, it
> will help keep the top tube from being deformed in a hard landing, but give
> if sufficiently hard and prevent transferring bending force to other
> framework.
> Hope that helps, good luck.
>
> -Doug
>
> --------
> Airdale Avid+ project | Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249502#249502
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/truss_688.jpeg
>
>
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