Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:57 AM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (Lynn Matteson)
2. 10:42 AM - Re: Kreem Problem Again (Mark Napier (napierm))
3. 11:24 AM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (Lynn Matteson)
4. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (TIM VADER)
5. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (patrick reilly)
6. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (Lowell Fitt)
7. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (patrick reilly)
8. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (Lynn Matteson)
9. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (Lynn Matteson)
10. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (Lynn Matteson)
11. 05:21 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (patrick reilly)
12. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Again (patrick reilly)
13. 06:21 PM - Re: Re:Oshkosh plans (kirk hull)
14. 06:52 PM - Re: Re:Oshkosh plans (patrick reilly)
15. 08:28 PM - 582 stuck (Cecil Stokesberry)
16. 10:19 PM - Re: 582 stuck (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Personal experience based on advice from the former head honcho at
the former Kitfox builder, Skystar: I had 12-year old tanks that
WERE NEVER USED, but had been Kreeme'd.
I rinsed both (13-gallon wing tanks)...already installed in the
wings, by the way... with acetone, using 3 gallons in the process,
until the final application of acetone came out nearly clear. I
diluted the Kreeme with MEK as suggested, but not sure of exact
ratio, and applied by rotation. That was about 4 years ago. I've been
flying with 100LL for the past three-plus years, and no sign of any
flaking, peeling, or any other type of loss of the Kreeme.
Note: I followed the instructions on the can of Kreeme to the
letter, but did NOT use the tank prep material the the can
instructions refer to, just the acetone for the cleaning.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 701.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Jul 12, 2009, at 9:43 PM, pperrynas wrote:
> <pperryrph@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I want to thank everyone who has responded to my questions as the
> input has been very helpful. I checked the msds sheets on both
> acetone and the mek and they were very similar..both rate the
> health risks as a "2" . I checked Lowes website and they show mek
> in 5gal for $99 and acetone in 1 gal for $16.98, so if they
> actually have them in the stores for those prices, there isn't much
> difference as far as cost. Again, thanks to everyone, but if
> someone else has personal experience with this type problem, please
> go ahead and reply and will take all the advice I can get.
> Paul P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252734#252734
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Hi Paul,
I re-sloshed my left tank a couple of years back because it was leaking.
1st step was to spray on a water based masking compound onto nearby
areas of the wing to prevent damaging the paint.
Next was to make a simple jig to raise up the wing with ropes so I could
be sure that the new Kreem coated the inboard and outboard walls.
I rinsed the tank with acetone until it ran mostly clear. It still has
some white in it.
Last was to use the Kreem un-thinned, a lot of it. I got two quart
sized cans directly from Kreem. It's on their web site. Most all came
back out afterwards. Overkill but at least it worked -> the leak was
gone.
I just left the regular gas cap on for the rinse and the slosh and
cleaned up later.
The new Kreem *is* different from what was used in 1992. I don't know
when the change happened. Trying to clean up the cap and a couple of
fittings after the Kreem set up for a few days was interesting. It
whitened a little but didn't dissolve like the old stuff. Not in
acetone, MEK or denatured alcohol.
Now I have a different problem. I want to make my tanks alcohol-proof
and don't know how to do it short of buying new tanks from Kitfox. Not
sure if any of the tank sealing products are really up to it. There are
internal surfaces in the tank that will never be reached by a sloshing
operation so to do it right would mean taking the top off of the tank
and coating it inside with something. What that something is I don't
know.
Any one have some solid leads?
Thanks,
Mark Napier
Time: 07:00:32 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Hi Paul,
MEK not acetone. You will not dissolve the Kreem. It is meant to stand
up to most
all fluids or it wouldn't be any good. Sounds like some one didn't do a
good
job of pre-cleaning or sloshing the tank the first time. It should not
peal
or flake.
Get as much of the loose Kreem out as possible. Use the MEK to clean the
tank,
but it is not necessary to leave it in long periods and depending on the
tank
material might be harmful to do so. You can re-slosh your tank with out
any problems.
Just do a good job of sloshing and rotating the tank. Do it at least
three
times in one day. Rotate slowly and completely.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252639#252639
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
No leads on an alcohol-proof sealer, but just curious about your
statement "There are internal surfaces in the tank that will never be
reached by a sloshing operation"....I'm not sure what you mean by
this. And if you took the top off the tank, how would you ever seal
the inside seam where you re-joined the tank top?
All this worry about resisting the alcohol in mogas makes me wonder
why people don't bite the bullet and use 100LL....it's safe,
convenient to airports, doesn't eat through (most) fuel tanks, and
until they do, it's the fuel that the Feds haven't mucked around
with...YET! I'm not rich, but I'd rather pay the little extra for
100LL, and FLY, rather than putz around with fuel tank problems.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 701.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Mark Napier (napierm) wrote:
> <napierm@cisco.com>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
(snip)
> Now I have a different problem. I want to make my tanks alcohol-proof
> and don't know how to do it short of buying new tanks from Kitfox.
> Not
> sure if any of the tank sealing products are really up to it.
> There are
> internal surfaces in the tank that will never be reached by a sloshing
> operation so to do it right would mean taking the top off of the tank
> and coating it inside with something. What that something is I don't
> know.
>
> Any one have some solid leads?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Napier
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Mark
I used this product. I phoned Caswell and they assured me that it was ethanol
resistant. Methanol, they weren't so sure about.
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm
Tim Vader
Kitfox IV
GPASC VW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Napier (napierm)" <napierm@cisco.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> <napierm@cisco.com>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I re-sloshed my left tank a couple of years back because it was
> leaking.
> 1st step was to spray on a water based masking compound onto nearby
> areas of the wing to prevent damaging the paint.
>
> Next was to make a simple jig to raise up the wing with ropes so
> I could
> be sure that the new Kreem coated the inboard and outboard walls.
>
> I rinsed the tank with acetone until it ran mostly clear.
> It still has
> some white in it.
>
> Last was to use the Kreem un-thinned, a lot of it. I got
> two quart
> sized cans directly from Kreem. It's on their web
> site. Most all came
> back out afterwards. Overkill but at least it worked ->
> the leak was
> gone.
>
> I just left the regular gas cap on for the rinse and the slosh and
> cleaned up later.
>
> The new Kreem *is* different from what was used in 1992. I
> don't know
> when the change happened. Trying to clean up the cap and a
> couple of
> fittings after the Kreem set up for a few days was
> interesting. It
> whitened a little but didn't dissolve like the old stuff.
> Not in
> acetone, MEK or denatured alcohol.
>
> Now I have a different problem. I want to make my tanks
> alcohol-proof
> and don't know how to do it short of buying new tanks from
> Kitfox. Not
> sure if any of the tank sealing products are really up to
> it. There are
> internal surfaces in the tank that will never be reached by a sloshing
> operation so to do it right would mean taking the top off of the tank
> and coating it inside with something. What that something
> is I don't
> know.
>
> Any one have some solid leads?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Napier
>
>
> Time: 07:00:32 AM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> MEK not acetone. You will not dissolve the Kreem. It is meant to stand
> up to most
> all fluids or it wouldn't be any good. Sounds like some one
> didn't do a
> good
> job of pre-cleaning or sloshing the tank the first time. It
> should not
> peal
> or flake.
> Get as much of the loose Kreem out as possible. Use the MEK to
> clean the
> tank,
> but it is not necessary to leave it in long periods and
> depending on the
> tank
> material might be harmful to do so. You can re-slosh your tank
> with out
> any problems.
> Just do a good job of sloshing and rotating the tank. Do it at least
> three
> times in one day. Rotate slowly and completely.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Service Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252639#252639
>
>
>
> Kitfox-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> _-
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> _-
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Lynn=2C What is your Oshkosh schedule? do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> Date: Mon=2C 13 Jul 2009 14:22:20 -0400
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> No leads on an alcohol-proof sealer=2C but just curious about your
> statement "There are internal surfaces in the tank that will never be
> reached by a sloshing operation"....I'm not sure what you mean by
> this. And if you took the top off the tank=2C how would you ever seal
> the inside seam where you re-joined the tank top?
>
> All this worry about resisting the alcohol in mogas makes me wonder
> why people don't bite the bullet and use 100LL....it's safe=2C
> convenient to airports=2C doesn't eat through (most) fuel tanks=2C and
> until they do=2C it's the fuel that the Feds haven't mucked around
> with...YET! I'm not rich=2C but I'd rather pay the little extra for
> 100LL=2C and FLY=2C rather than putz around with fuel tank problems.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 701.3 hrs
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 13=2C 2009=2C at 1:30 PM=2C Mark Napier (napierm) wrote:
>
> > <napierm@cisco.com>
> >
> > Hi Paul=2C
> >
> (snip)
>
>
> > Now I have a different problem. I want to make my tanks alcohol-proof
> > and don't know how to do it short of buying new tanks from Kitfox.
> > Not
> > sure if any of the tank sealing products are really up to it.
> > There are
> > internal surfaces in the tank that will never be reached by a sloshing
> > operation so to do it right would mean taking the top off of the tank
> > and coating it inside with something. What that something is I don't
> > know.
> >
> > Any one have some solid leads?
> >
> > Thanks=2C
> >
> > Mark Napier
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
This subject is very timely for me. I was planning on covering the left
wing soon and my tanks are 1992 vintage with vintage Kreem. I guess I
should be thinking of a re-do of the liner to a more up to date version. I
was very tempted to try the epoxy liner that Tim used and did a bit of
looking and found a discussion board where one guy used it and if flaked -
metal tank and definitely not our issue - but the point of his post was that
he can't find anything that will remove it. He's looking at new tanks.
Then, the application of the epoxy liner requires total removal of Kreem
with a paint remover type compound after the Acetone/MEK treatment and like
Paul I my tanks are in a flying configuration with lots of effort to reslosh
and get the liner everywhere - been there done that once already!
The permanence of the phenol novolac epoxy is interesting to me because I
like to think anything on my airplane is serviceable to some extent. I
suppose that surface preperation is what caused the flaking on the metal
tank but the multistep prep on my already Kreemed tanks gives me pause
because if my prep is not perfect, I am looking at two entire wing rebuilds.
I need some input - encouragement or discouragement - Any wisdom would be
appreciated at this point.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Covering
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Lowell=2C If it was me=2C and my wing wasn't covered=2C I would attempt to
secure tanks that didn't require Kreem or similar coating. I had an experie
nce with a streetrod=2C 47 Ford coupe=2C that I built using the original ta
nk that I had Kreemed. The tank prep was probably lacking I will admit. But
the Kreem let go in big flakes that didn't pass through the pickup tube so
that none was picked up in the filters. I thought I had a vaporlock proble
m because the fuel line did run closer to the exhaust than I wanted. It too
k me a long=2C long time to realize that the pickup tube was being blocked
intermitently by big pieces of Kreem. I now have a brand new plastic rotomo
lded tank in that car. I swore I'd never use Kreem again. I'll bite the bul
let and purchase new tanks for any projects in the future=2C and that inclu
des aircraft projects. That's just me though.
do not archive
P.S. Got the bush gear completely mounted with wheels and on the ground. I
need to make some cuffs at fuselage. That gear sure looks good on a KF. I n
ever thought Grove gear looked period correct on a KF and am glad I didn't
purchase it prior to your development of bush gear. And=2C thanks for desig
ining that fairing set up=2C absolutely beautiful! Your suggestion of using
a 4x30 tap to align the fairing worked as described. I only had to use it
on 4 or 5 holes so your apology was not warrented. I don't think the fairin
g holes could have been aligned any better. I will post pictures of the pla
ne in a couple of weeks.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL
> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> Date: Mon=2C 13 Jul 2009 14:45:04 -0700
>
>
> This subject is very timely for me. I was planning on covering the left
> wing soon and my tanks are 1992 vintage with vintage Kreem. I guess I
> should be thinking of a re-do of the liner to a more up to date version.
I
> was very tempted to try the epoxy liner that Tim used and did a bit of
> looking and found a discussion board where one guy used it and if flaked
-
> metal tank and definitely not our issue - but the point of his post was t
hat
> he can't find anything that will remove it. He's looking at new tanks.
> Then=2C the application of the epoxy liner requires total removal of Kree
m
> with a paint remover type compound after the Acetone/MEK treatment and li
ke
> Paul I my tanks are in a flying configuration with lots of effort to resl
osh
> and get the liner everywhere - been there done that once already!
>
> The permanence of the phenol novolac epoxy is interesting to me because I
> like to think anything on my airplane is serviceable to some extent. I
> suppose that surface preperation is what caused the flaking on the metal
> tank but the multistep prep on my already Kreemed tanks gives me pause
> because if my prep is not perfect=2C I am looking at two entire wing rebu
ilds.
>
> I need some input - encouragement or discouragement - Any wisdom would be
> appreciated at this point.
>
> Lowell Fitt
> Cameron Park=2C CA
> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
> Covering
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
I'm probably going to leave here on Sat or Sun, the weekend before
they open, and stay for 4-5 days. I like to get there before the good
spots in homebuilt camping are all gone. By good spots, that means
close to the showers/johns, but more importantly the ICE!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 702 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Jul 13, 2009, at 3:59 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, What is your Oshkosh schedule? do not archive
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:22:20 -0400
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > No leads on an alcohol-proof sealer, but just curious about your
> > statement "There are internal surfaces in the tank that will
> never be
> > reached by a sloshing operation"....I'm not sure what you mean by
> > this. And if you took the top off the tank, how would you ever seal
> > the inside seam where you re-joined the tank top?
> >
> > All this worry about resisting the alcohol in mogas makes me wonder
> > why people don't bite the bullet and use 100LL....it's safe,
> > convenient to airports, doesn't eat through (most) fuel tanks, and
> > until they do, it's the fuel that the Feds haven't mucked around
> > with...YET! I'm not rich, but I'd rather pay the little extra for
> > 100LL, and FLY, rather than putz around with fuel tank problems.
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 701.3 hrs
> > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > Status: flying
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Mark Napier (napierm) wrote:
> >
> > > <napierm@cisco.com>
> > >
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > (snip)
> >
> >
> > > Now I have a different problem. I want to make my tanks alcohol-
> proof
> > > and don't know how to do it short of buying new tanks from Kitfox.
> > > Not
> > > sure if any of the tank sealing products are really up to it.
> > > There are
> > > internal surfaces in the tank that will never be reached by a
> sloshing
> > > operation so to do it right would mean taking the top off of
> the tank
> > > and coating it inside with something. What that something is I
> don't
> > > know.
> > >
> > > Any one have some solid leads?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mark Napier
> >
> &=========
> >
> >
> >
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Lowell-
My tanks were January 1994 vintage, and Frank Miller suggested that I
slosh out the old Kreeme and *install* a fresh coating. I had already
glued the tanks into the wings, so I had to rotate the entire wing on
the jig, AND turn it end-for-end...by myself....so it can be done.
This was no small feat with a 12-foot wing and an 11-foot 10-inch or
so, ceiling. It was cold weather here, and you don't have that
problem. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 702 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Jul 13, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> This subject is very timely for me. I was planning on covering the
> left wing soon and my tanks are 1992 vintage with vintage Kreem. I
> guess I should be thinking of a re-do of the liner to a more up to
> date version. I was very tempted to try the epoxy liner that Tim
> used and did a bit of looking and found a discussion board where
> one guy used it and if flaked - metal tank and definitely not our
> issue - but the point of his post was that he can't find anything
> that will remove it. He's looking at new tanks. Then, the
> application of the epoxy liner requires total removal of Kreem with
> a paint remover type compound after the Acetone/MEK treatment and
> like Paul I my tanks are in a flying configuration with lots of
> effort to reslosh and get the liner everywhere - been there done
> that once already!
>
> The permanence of the phenol novolac epoxy is interesting to me
> because I like to think anything on my airplane is serviceable to
> some extent. I suppose that surface preperation is what caused the
> flaking on the metal tank but the multistep prep on my already
> Kreemed tanks gives me pause because if my prep is not perfect, I
> am looking at two entire wing rebuilds.
>
> I need some input - encouragement or discouragement - Any wisdom
> would be appreciated at this point.
>
> Lowell Fitt
> Cameron Park, CA
> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
> Covering
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Just like sex, preparation is everything, Patrick.....maybe you
didn't talk sweet enough to that hot rod tank. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 702 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Jul 13, 2009, at 6:23 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> The tank prep was probably lacking I will admit.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Lynn=2C I'll keep that in mind in about 1/2 an hour here when my wife has m
e scheduled for a project here at home.
Pat do not archive
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> Date: Mon=2C 13 Jul 2009 19:29:55 -0400
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Just like sex=2C preparation is everything=2C Patrick.....maybe you
> didn't talk sweet enough to that hot rod tank. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 702 hrs
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On Jul 13=2C 2009=2C at 6:23 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:
>
> > The tank prep was probably lacking I will admit.
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Again |
Lynn=2C Jim Clement has a fly in at Baraboo WI usually that weekend for Whi
ttman Tailwinds on the way to Oshkosh. You might be interested in that. I s
topped there last year on the way home from Door County. It was very intere
sting. Clement is the Tailwind guru since Steve Whittman died. Jim has buil
t 13 or 14 of the Tailwinds with his own modifications and is a master craf
tsman.
do not archive
Pat
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> Date: Mon=2C 13 Jul 2009 18:40:23 -0400
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I'm probably going to leave here on Sat or Sun=2C the weekend before
> they open=2C and stay for 4-5 days. I like to get there before the good
> spots in homebuilt camping are all gone. By good spots=2C that means
> close to the showers/johns=2C but more importantly the ICE!
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 702 hrs
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On Jul 13=2C 2009=2C at 3:59 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:
>
> > Lynn=2C What is your Oshkosh schedule? do not archive
> >
> > Pat Reilly
> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> > Rockford=2C IL
> >
> > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> > > Date: Mon=2C 13 Jul 2009 14:22:20 -0400
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > > No leads on an alcohol-proof sealer=2C but just curious about your
> > > statement "There are internal surfaces in the tank that will
> > never be
> > > reached by a sloshing operation"....I'm not sure what you mean by
> > > this. And if you took the top off the tank=2C how would you ever seal
> > > the inside seam where you re-joined the tank top?
> > >
> > > All this worry about resisting the alcohol in mogas makes me wonder
> > > why people don't bite the bullet and use 100LL....it's safe=2C
> > > convenient to airports=2C doesn't eat through (most) fuel tanks=2C an
d
> > > until they do=2C it's the fuel that the Feds haven't mucked around
> > > with...YET! I'm not rich=2C but I'd rather pay the little extra for
> > > 100LL=2C and FLY=2C rather than putz around with fuel tank problems.
> > >
> > >
> > > Lynn Matteson
> > > Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> > > Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 701.3 hrs
> > > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > > Status: flying
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jul 13=2C 2009=2C at 1:30 PM=2C Mark Napier (napierm) wrote:
> > >
> > > > <napierm@cisco.com>
> > > >
> > > > Hi Paul=2C
> > > >
> > > (snip)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Now I have a different problem. I want to make my tanks alcohol-
> > proof
> > > > and don't know how to do it short of buying new tanks from Kitfox.
> > > > Not
> > > > sure if any of the tank sealing products are really up to it.
> > > > There are
> > > > internal surfaces in the tank that will never be reached by a
> > sloshing
> > > > operation so to do it right would mean taking the top off of
> > the tank
> > > > and coating it inside with something. What that something is I
> > don't
> > > > know.
> > > >
> > > > Any one have some solid leads?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks=2C
> > > >
> > > > Mark Napier
> > >
> > &=========
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > =======================
> > =======================
> > =======================
===========
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re:Oshkosh plans |
I also will be leave Kansas City on Sat the weekend before they open, and
stay for 4-5 days. However I plan to stop at Brodhead WI for the pete
flyin. You can camp on the field for free eat dinner and breakfast with the
eaa chapter and then make a short hop to OSH in on sun. If you have never
been to Brodhead you will be amazed at the aircraft there and it is a Kitfox
kind of airfield/ grass.
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 7:28 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
Lynn, Jim Clement has a fly in at Baraboo WI usually that weekend for
Whittman Tailwinds on the way to Oshkosh. You might be interested in that. I
stopped there last year on the way home from Door County. It was very
interesting. Clement is the Tailwind guru since Steve Whittman died. Jim has
built 13 or 14 of the Tailwinds with his own modifications and is a master
craftsman.
do not archive
Pat
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:40:23 -0400
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I'm probably going to leave here on Sat or Sun, the weekend before
> they open, and stay for 4-5 days. I like to get there before the good
> spots in homebuilt camping are all gone. By good spots, that means
> close to the showers/johns, but more importantly the ICE!
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 702 hrs
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On Jul 13, 2009, at 3:59 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
>
> > Lynn, What is your Oshkosh schedule? do not archive
> >
> > Pat Reilly
> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> > Rockford, IL
> >
> > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> > > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:22:20 -0400
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > > No leads on an alcohol-proof sealer, but just curious about your
> > > statement "There are internal surfaces in the tank that will
> > never be
> > > reached by a sloshing operation"....I'm not sure what you mean by
> > > this. And if you took the top off the tank, how would you ever seal
> > > the inside seam where you re-joined the tank top?
> > >
> > > All this worry about resisting the alcohol in mogas makes me wonder
> > > why people don't bite the bullet and use 100LL....it's safe,
> > > convenient to airports, doesn't eat through (most) fuel tanks, and
> > > until they do, it's the fuel that the Feds haven't mucked around
> > > with...YET! I'm not rich, but I'd rather pay the little extra for
> > > 100LL, and FLY, rather than putz around with fuel tank problems.
> > >
> > >
> > > Lynn Matteson
> > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 701.3 hrs
> > > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > > Status: flying
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Mark Napier (napierm) wrote:
> > >
> > > > <napierm@cisco.com>
> > > >
> > > > Hi Paul,
> > > >
> > > (snip)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Now I have a different problem. I want to make my tanks alcohol-
> > proof
> > > > and don't know how to do it short of buying new tanks from Kitfox.
> > > > Not
> > > > sure if any of the tank sealing products are really up to it.
> > > > There are
> > > > internal surfaces in the tank that will never be reached by a
> > sloshing
> > > > operation so to do it right would mean taking the top off of
> > the tank
> > > > and coating it inside with something. What that something is I
> > don't
> > > > know.
> > > >
> > > > Any one have some solid leads?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Mark Napier
> > >
> > &=========
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > =================================== _-
> > ========== _-
> > contribution_-
> > ========================= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,
FAQ,
&g===
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re:Oshkosh plans |
Kirk=2C Your right. Brodhead is a neat grass strip. I was in there on skis
in a Supercub 2 years ago with Wild Bill "Wilbur" Thomas. You probably neve
r heard of him. But he is well known around Rockford. We flew to Brodhead a
long the Sugar River at between 50 to 300' all the way. He had to go "aroun
d" one patch of woods. If you are a builder Clement in Baraboo usually has
a builders program the Saturday before Oshkosh.
Pat Reilly
From: kirkhull@kc.rr.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re:Oshkosh plans
I also will be leave Kansas City on Sat the weekend before they open=2C an
d stay for 4-5 days. However I plan to stop at Brodhead WI for the pete fl
yin. You can camp on the field for free eat dinner and breakfast with the
eaa chapter and then make a short hop to OSH in on sun. If you have never
been to Brodhead you will be amazed at the aircraft there and it is a Kitfo
x kind of airfield/ grass.
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Monday=2C July 13=2C 2009 7:28 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
Lynn=2C Jim Clement has a fly in at Baraboo WI usually that weekend for Whi
ttman Tailwinds on the way to Oshkosh. You might be interested in that. I s
topped there last year on the way home from Door County. It was very intere
sting. Clement is the Tailwind guru since Steve Whittman died. Jim has buil
t 13 or 14 of the Tailwinds with his own modifications and is a master craf
tsman.
do not archive
Pat
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> Date: Mon=2C 13 Jul 2009 18:40:23 -0400
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I'm probably going to leave here on Sat or Sun=2C the weekend before
> they open=2C and stay for 4-5 days. I like to get there before the good
> spots in homebuilt camping are all gone. By good spots=2C that means
> close to the showers/johns=2C but more importantly the ICE!
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 702 hrs
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On Jul 13=2C 2009=2C at 3:59 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:
>
> > Lynn=2C What is your Oshkosh schedule? do not archive
> >
> > Pat Reilly
> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> > Rockford=2C IL
> >
> > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Again
> > > Date: Mon=2C 13 Jul 2009 14:22:20 -0400
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > > No leads on an alcohol-proof sealer=2C but just curious about your
> > > statement "There are internal surfaces in the tank that will
> > never be
> > > reached by a sloshing operation"....I'm not sure what you mean by
> > > this. And if you took the top off the tank=2C how would you ever seal
> > > the inside seam where you re-joined the tank top?
> > >
> > > All this worry about resisting the alcohol in mogas makes me wonder
> > > why people don't bite the bullet and use 100LL....it's safe=2C
> > > convenient to airports=2C doesn't eat through (most) fuel tanks=2C an
d
> > > until they do=2C it's the fuel that the Feds haven't mucked around
> > > with...YET! I'm not rich=2C but I'd rather pay the little extra for
> > > 100LL=2C and FLY=2C rather than putz around with fuel tank problems.
> > >
> > >
> > > Lynn Matteson
> > > Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> > > Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 701.3 hrs
> > > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > > Status: flying
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jul 13=2C 2009=2C at 1:30 PM=2C Mark Napier (napierm) wrote:
> > >
> > > > <napierm@cisco.com>
> > > >
> > > > Hi Paul=2C
> > > >
> > > (snip)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Now I have a different problem. I want to make my tanks alcohol-
> > proof
> > > > and don't know how to do it short of buying new tanks from Kitfox.
> > > > Not
> > > > sure if any of the tank sealing products are really up to it.
> > > > There are
> > > > internal surfaces in the tank that will never be reached by a
> > sloshing
> > > > operation so to do it right would mean taking the top off of
> > the tank
> > > > and coating it inside with something. What that something is I
> > don't
> > > > know.
> > > >
> > > > Any one have some solid leads?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks=2C
> > > >
> > > > Mark Napier
> > >
> > &=========
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Archive Search & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C
&g===
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.c
omhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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My 582 is stuck. I have put considerable force on the prop and it
simply will not move the engine (some movement due to the gear
box slop).
During the winter (temp appx 50 degrees) I broke in the engine using
rotax procedure. Every thing normal. No overheat or high EGT's
noted. Ran engine another half/hour checking things out. Replaced
bad EGT gage. Weather and other things kept the plane in the garage.
Began taxi testing in June. Engine starts nicely and after shutdown
hand swinging the prop can easily move the engine (temps appx 75 deg).
Then after a few taxi test of about 15 minutes, I noticed after shutdown
when hand swinging the prop it was stuck but could be easily forced
to move the engine. Temps are now appx 85 degrees. Water temp
stays at 175 deg and EGTs between 1100 and 1250 during the taxi runs.
Taxi runs are short - the runway is 2000' on grass.
Its has been raining so have not run the engine for a few days.
Now the engine is stuck! Temps appx 60 deg. Help !
Any ideas.?
Using premium car gas 91 Oct with no ethanol.
I purchased the kit and engine in 1992.
Engine has been stored as I received it. First run of engine in 2008
I have not flown airplane yet - still trying to qualify for insurance.
Cecil in North Idaho
Kitfox Md4 1050
582 grey head C box
Message 16
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At 08:23 PM 7/13/2009, you wrote:
>Now the engine is stuck! Temps appx 60 deg. Help !
>Any ideas.?
Hydraulic lock? Any chance one of the cases has filled with fuel or
water or oil? Pull the exhaust at the elbow and look for fluid coming
out the exhaust port. It sounds like, at a minimum, you'll have to
pull the top end apart to check for seizure, leaks, and hydraulic lock.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
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