Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:43 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Noel)
2. 06:14 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (bob noffs)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (paul wilson)
4. 08:06 AM - Re: Grey heads RV seal update (patrick reilly)
5. 09:52 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Guy Buchanan)
6. 09:56 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Dave G)
7. 09:57 AM - Fuel line (rosane beaule)
8. 10:21 AM - Re: Fuel line (Guy Buchanan)
9. 10:39 AM - Re: Fuel line (Vic Baker)
10. 10:39 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09 (Ed Gray)
11. 02:29 PM - Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up (Roger Lee)
12. 02:41 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (paul wilson)
13. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09 (fox5flyer)
14. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up (Brian Morissette)
15. 03:39 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (n81jg@aol.com)
16. 03:53 PM - Re: Fuel line (Kitfox George)
17. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09 (Guy Buchanan)
18. 05:10 PM - Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up (pperrynas)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 582 stuck - update |
If there is anything in the float bowls then you will have to check the
tanks... be sure to use a sealed light there. An excess of oil would cause
your engine to be very smoky and could even cause the plugs to foul but
black goo in the base where unburned atomized fuel lives is not normal. The
only other thing I can think of is if someone sugared your gas... even that
shouldn't show up in the base of the engine.
The fact the stuff seems to be resistant to carb cleaner makes ne think what
you are seeing is the resins that form your fuel tanks. Do you drain your
gascolator before every flight? It is surprising that the goo didn't turn
up there as a yellowish slime.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
Stokesberry
Sent: 20 July 2009 03:13
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
The instructions I used for first start of engine was to
add some oil to the fuel just in case the oil injector
did not work. This I did and maybe I put too much oil
in the fuel and the oil injector did work as it should.
Maybe this was the start of it all.
I will look in the flood bowl to see if there is any gunk.
Carb clearer works very well in dissolving this black gunk.
I will also try brake cleaner to see how it works.
I doubt if either will harm the crank bearings, but I am
concerned what damage the cleaner might do to the
oil seals or o-rings.
Cecil
Kitfox IV 1050 582 C
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 582 stuck - update |
not likely. i have had 2 cucle mixes sit for yrars and never seen a
precipitate. i always dump oil in my injector snowmobiles and mix for the
chainsaw gets so old i often dump it .
bob noffs n. wi.
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Cecil Stokesberry <stokesc@wildblue.net>wrote:
> The instructions I used for first start of engine was to
> add some oil to the fuel just in case the oil injector
> did not work. This I did and maybe I put too much oil
> in the fuel and the oil injector did work as it should.
> Maybe this was the start of it all.
> I will look in the flood bowl to see if there is any gunk.
> Carb clearer works very well in dissolving this black gunk.
> I will also try brake cleaner to see how it works.
> I doubt if either will harm the crank bearings, but I am
> concerned what damage the cleaner might do to the
> oil seals or o-rings.
>
> Cecil
> Kitfox IV 1050 582 C
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | 582 stuck - update |
Noel, No way it sugar . That is a false old wives tail. All it does
is just lay in the tank waiting to clog the filters. If it arrives in
the engine, unlikely, it does not produce the black junk that we
created in the chem lab.
The fuel and or tank coating is my best guesss. The designer unleaded
fuels in some markets have things a lot worse than alcohol. These
various additives are aromatics to solve some perceived pollution and
they are very aggressive. The 10% alky is unlikely the problem since
it is so common in use with the glass tanks and common tank coatings
that do not result in black junk. Another possible issue could be an
off the wall tank coating that none of the other guys have used.
Probably a chem lab analysis of the black junk is in order.
PW
=========
At 09:08 AM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
>If there is anything in the float bowls then you will have to check
>the tanks... be sure to use a sealed light there. An excess of oil
>would cause your engine to be very smoky and could even cause the
>plugs to foul but black goo in the base where unburned atomized fuel
>lives is not normal. The only other thing I can think of is if
>someone sugared your gas... even that shouldn't show up in the base
>of the engine.
>
>The fact the stuff seems to be resistant to carb cleaner makes ne
>think what you are seeing is the resins that form your fuel
>tanks. Do you drain your gascolator before every flight? It is
>surprising that the goo didn't turn up there as a yellowish slime.
>
>Noel
>
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Stokesberry
>Sent: 20 July 2009 03:13
>To: Kitfox
>Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
>The instructions I used for first start of engine was to
>add some oil to the fuel just in case the oil injector
>did not work. This I did and maybe I put too much oil
>in the fuel and the oil injector did work as it should.
>Maybe this was the start of it all.
>I will look in the flood bowl to see if there is any gunk.
>Carb clearer works very well in dissolving this black gunk.
>I will also try brake cleaner to see how it works.
>I doubt if either will harm the crank bearings, but I am
>concerned what damage the cleaner might do to the
>oil seals or o-rings.
>
>Cecil
>Kitfox IV 1050 582 C
Message 4
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| Subject: | Grey heads RV seal update |
Guy=2C Thanks for reply. I'm confident now.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
> Date: Sun=2C 19 Jul 2009 21:29:36 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> From: bnn@nethere.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grey heads RV seal update
>
>
> At 06:47 PM 7/19/2009=2C you wrote:
> >A Trike pilot who considers himself an expert on 582's tells me to
> >pull the rotary valve and install newer type seals or it will difinetly
fail.
>
> If he means the new rotary valve seal that's a big negative. The
> problem got solved when everyone switched to the "silicate free"
> coolant. I've got 400 hours on original rotary seals with no problem.
> (Knock on woodie.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego=2C CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 582 stuck - update |
At 10:43 PM 7/19/2009, you wrote:
>This I did and maybe I put too much oil
>in the fuel and the oil injector did work as it should.
>Maybe this was the start of it all.
Doubt it. Too much oil just leads to smoke and carbon build-up, not
varnish or sludge.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 582 stuck - update |
Hi Paul, if you read the report at the link of the last post I sent, it
looks like the "gunk" is composed of styrene in their tests.
----- Original Message -----
From: paul wilson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
Noel, No way it sugar . That is a false old wives tail. All it does is
just lay in the tank waiting to clog the filters. If it arrives in the
engine, unlikely, it does not produce the black junk that we created in
the chem lab.
The fuel and or tank coating is my best guesss. The designer unleaded
fuels in some markets have things a lot worse than alcohol. These
various additives are aromatics to solve some perceived pollution and
they are very aggressive. The 10% alky is unlikely the problem since it
is so common in use with the glass tanks and common tank coatings that
do not result in black junk. Another possible issue could be an off the
wall tank coating that none of the other guys have used.
Probably a chem lab analysis of the black junk is in order.
PW
=========
At 09:08 AM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
If there is anything in the float bowls then you will have to check
the tanks... be sure to use a sealed light there. An excess of oil
would cause your engine to be very smoky and could even cause the plugs
to foul but black goo in the base where unburned atomized fuel lives is
not normal. The only other thing I can think of is if someone sugared
your gas... even that shouldn't show up in the base of the engine.
The fact the stuff seems to be resistant to carb cleaner makes ne
think what you are seeing is the resins that form your fuel tanks. Do
you drain your gascolator before every flight? It is surprising that
the goo didn't turn up there as a yellowish slime.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [
mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
Stokesberry
Sent: 20 July 2009 03:13
To: Kitfox
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
The instructions I used for first start of engine was to
add some oil to the fuel just in case the oil injector
did not work. This I did and maybe I put too much oil
in the fuel and the oil injector did work as it should.
Maybe this was the start of it all.
I will look in the flood bowl to see if there is any gunk.
Carb clearer works very well in dissolving this black gunk.
I will also try brake cleaner to see how it works.
I doubt if either will harm the crank bearings, but I am
concerned what damage the cleaner might do to the
oil seals or o-rings.
Cecil
Kitfox IV 1050 582 C
Message 7
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Folding my wings yesterday on my Kitfox 4, I realized the tygon tubing
line used to vent the heather tank to the right wing tank is very dry
and I'm afraid it may crack.To avoid to make an order just for that, I
tought of using the bing 1/4 blue fuel line fro Aircraft Spruce to
replace it.(I have a lenth of that) Is this a good idea? Also, I want to
replace the rubber fuel lines. What is the best hoses to use for those?
I think they are 5/16 lines.
Thanks all
Jack
Kitfox 4- Rotax 912
Message 8
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At 09:55 AM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
>I tought of using the bing 1/4 blue fuel line fro Aircraft Spruce to
>replace it.(I have a lenth of that) Is this a good idea?
I've used it for three years with 100LL and it has retained its
resiliency, but has discolored a bit.
>Also, I want to replace the rubber fuel lines. What is the best
>hoses to use for those? I think they are 5/16 lines.
I use the Aeroquip blue socketless hose. Again with 100LL only.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 9
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I used 1/4" Bing alcohol resistant fuel line - Blue - for the vent line.
Aircraft Spruce.
Recently changed out all the 5/16" mil 6000 kit supplied fuel line for
SAE J30R9 fuel injection hose. No, not cheap, more tolerant to
ethanol contaminated fuel. Your local auto parts supplier will have.
Vic Baker
S7 912S Warp
Carson City, Nv
----- Original Message -----
From: rosane beaule
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel line
Folding my wings yesterday on my Kitfox 4, I realized the tygon tubing
line used to vent the heather tank to the right wing tank is very dry
and I'm afraid it may crack.To avoid to make an order just for that, I
tought of using the bing 1/4 blue fuel line fro Aircraft Spruce to
replace it.(I have a lenth of that) Is this a good idea? Also, I want to
replace the rubber fuel lines. What is the best hoses to use for those?
I think they are 5/16 lines.
Thanks all
Jack
Kitfox 4- Rotax 912
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09 |
Kitfox guys, on the subject of older 582u engines, I have just installed the
prop on my 1990 grayhead and test ran it. The engine sat in the original
box for 18 years, looked well lubed inside, and I did no dissassembly before
running it. I added some oil to the first gallon of gas but now running on
the oil tank. It seems to run strong at all rpms, idles ok at 2400 and
doesn't want to idle below 2000 at all. I will test fly it soon, after some
taxi testing. Any reason to mess with the engine if it is running strong?
Hope to see some of you at OSH. I plan on coming in on the 29th in my
Mooney and camping on North 40. Do not archive.
Ed Gray, Dallas, Mod 2, 582, GSC 3 blade.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 1:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
09-07-19&Archive=Kitfox
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2009-07-19&Archive=Kitfox
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 07/19/09: 17
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:04 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Lynn Matteson)
2. 04:07 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Ken Potter)
3. 06:52 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (ronlee)
4. 09:40 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Shane Sather)
5. 12:20 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
6. 01:02 PM - Twin lead throttle cable (wingnut)
7. 01:40 PM - Re: Twin lead throttle cable (jdmcbean)
8. 03:44 PM - Re: Twin lead throttle cable (Tom Jones)
9. 04:46 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Randy Daughenbaugh)
10. 06:34 PM - Kreem Problem Follow Up (pperrynas)
11. 06:34 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Dave G)
12. 06:51 PM - Grey heads RV seal update (Pat Reilly)
13. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: 582 stuck - update (Noel)
14. 07:14 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Noel)
15. 10:46 PM - 582 stuck - update (Cecil Stokesberry)
16. 10:49 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Guy Buchanan)
17. 11:27 PM - Re: Grey heads RV seal update (Guy Buchanan)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 03:04:32 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
I had a similar experience just recently with a single-cylinder
Briggs and Stratton engine that was out of a cultivator. The piston
was so stuck in the bore that it needed to be pried out. I found a
sticky substance in the pan that was grey-looking and very sticky.
They grey color was probably from the aluminum cylinder walls, but
the stickiness I just can't explain. I used alcohol, MEK, mineral
spirits, water, lacquer thinner, and finally carburetor cleaner to
try to dissolve the stuff. None of these products seemed to cut the
stuff, but with some soaking, the carb cleaner finally got rid of
it....not like it should have, though. Of course, the EPA has
weakened the carb cleaner to the point that you could damn near drink
it...it sure isn't as potent as it used to be. I hope you find the
answer.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 707.7 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Jul 19, 2009, at 12:47 AM, Cecil Stokesberry wrote:
> Stuck seems to be the right word for this situation.
> I removed the head - still stuck.
> I removed the gear box - still stuck.
> I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
> Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
> pump off. Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
> And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
> Everything is covered with this and is very sticky.
> Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
> It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
> I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
> So, where did this stuff come from?
> I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
> when shipped here.
> Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.
> The engine is dated Jan 1991.
> I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
> break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
> break-in procedure. Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
> problem developed.
>
> Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
> There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
> Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
> The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
>
> Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
>
> I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
> And they are pricey.
> Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
>
> Cecil in N. Idaho
> N161CP Kitfox IV - 582 C 1050
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ==========================================================
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:07:49 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 stuck - update
From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
I would be interested in any other's experience of Cecil's problem. My 582
was
delivered to the previous owner in 1991. In 2003, not even having run it
yet
he had it "updated" by a rotax dealer. When I purchased the project from
him
in 2007 I remember him saying that after the update it had been "preserved"
by
the dealer. Now, my experience as a mechanical engineer tells me that this
is normally done just using a preservative oil which is compatible with
other
oils. But as I'll be ready to start and break mine in within the next
couple
of months, Cecil's observations have me wondering.....
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253696#253696
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 06:52:28 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 stuck - update
From: "ronlee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
Transmission shops use carburetor cleaner to clean the burnt on varnish off
parts
all the time.
They have it in five gallon containers. maybe you could find some shop with
a container
large enough to soak the whole crank case. I do not know what it would
do to the seals though.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253706#253706
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 09:40:51 AM PST US
From: "Shane Sather" <shanesather@netkaster.ca>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
This seems almost like mine was when I first kit my fox. The first few
hours on the engine all was good. Then all hell poured loose and the
inside of the engine got coated with a tar like stuff and had to be
cleaned all out. We believe it came from the fuel tanks.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cecil Stokesberry
To: Kitfox
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
Stuck seems to be the right word for this situation.
I removed the head - still stuck.
I removed the gear box - still stuck.
I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
pump off. Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
Everything is covered with this and is very sticky.
Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
So, where did this stuff come from?
I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
when shipped here.
Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.
The engine is dated Jan 1991.
I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
break-in procedure. Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
problem developed.
Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
And they are pricey.
Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
Cecil in N. Idaho
N161CP Kitfox IV - 582 C 1050
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 12:20:47 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>
On Sun, July 19, 2009 9:34 am, Shane Sather wrote:
> ...... The first few hours on the
> engine all was good. Then all hell poured loose and the inside of the
engine
got
> coated with a tar like stuff and had to be cleaned all out. We believe it
came
from
> the fuel tanks.
I've been following this thread and I too suspect the fouling wasn't present
when
the
engine was first run. Something in contact with the fuel is the cause rather
than
the
pickling process on the engine done for long term storage.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
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________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 01:02:29 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Twin lead throttle cable
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
I'm installing the twin lead throttle cable from Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/rotaxdualthrottle.php
It works ok but it lacks the ratcheting lock that my old throttle had. In
order
to hold idle, I have to keep the adjustable resistance set fairly high to
counteract
the throttle springs. I find it cumbersome. Anyone have a better solution?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253762#253762
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 01:40:57 PM PST US
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@kitfoxaircraft.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Twin lead throttle cable
Luis,
We have offered this type of cable for some time with the fittings
for the carbs. We can also offer them with as a vernier type throttle.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Twin lead throttle cable
I'm installing the twin lead throttle cable from Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/rotaxdualthrottle.php
It works ok but it lacks the ratcheting lock that my old throttle had. In
order to hold idle, I have to keep the adjustable resistance set fairly high
to counteract the throttle springs. I find it cumbersome. Anyone have a
better solution?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253762#253762
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 03:44:20 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Twin lead throttle cable
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Luis, the throttle that came with my kit has just the adjustable friction
lock.
It took me only a short while to get used to operating it with one hand. I
turn all the friction off for taxi, takeoff and climb out because my hand
will
be on the throttle all that time anyhow. When I reduce throttle and level
off
I can set the throttle for the desired RPM and turn the friction knob with
two
fingers and thumb to hold it there, then take my hand off the throttle.
When I descend, enter the pattern and land I take the friction off and keep
my
hand on the throttle again.
I started out flying my kitfox by setting the friction enough to hold the
RPM but
still be able to push the throttle in...I thought. On my second or third
takeoff
I took my had off to scratch my nose and it slipped back to idle at about
100 feet off the ground and scared the crap out of me. I thought the engine
had done did the dreaded two stroke seizure.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253781#253781
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 04:46:03 PM PST US
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
I would like to second Shane's suggestion. I had a similar problem with my
912S. It ran great for several flights then the starter carbs (choke is a
misnomer for this engine) stuck. I took them apart, cleaned them up, and
then flew a couple of flights and they gummed up again. I got smart this
time and drained all the gas from the tanks, cleaned the starter carbs
again, and then with new gas, had no more problems.
I hate to admit that I have further confirmation that the problem was with
the gas (or more correctly, with the gas tanks!). I took the bad gas home
intending to use it to burn slash piles and lost track of it. I put it in
my lawn mower and ended up pulling the carb and cleaning it! (*&%#$*(&
This sounds different in scale, but ,,,,
Randy
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shane Sather
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
This seems almost like mine was when I first kit my fox. The first few hours
on the engine all was good. Then all hell poured loose and the inside of the
engine got coated with a tar like stuff and had to be cleaned all out. We
believe it came from the fuel tanks.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cecil <mailto:stokesc@wildblue.net> Stokesberry
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
Stuck seems to be the right word for this situation.
I removed the head - still stuck.
I removed the gear box - still stuck.
I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
pump off. Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
Everything is covered with this and is very sticky.
Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
So, where did this stuff come from?
I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
when shipped here.
Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.
The engine is dated Jan 1991.
I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
break-in procedure. Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
problem developed.
Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
And they are pricey.
Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
Cecil in N. Idaho
N161CP Kitfox IV - 582 C 1050
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 06:34:26 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreem Problem Follow Up
From: "pperrynas" <pperryrph@sbcglobal.net>
Again, thanks to everyone who responded to my orig post about the Kreem
Prob, and
I thought I would add some more info on what prompted me to look into the
fuel
tanks for a problem as well as post pics I took of the inside of the tanks
with a mini webcam. I purchased the plane from the orig builder about a year
ago, and started using unleaded gas either 89 or 93 oct (912ul 80hp) around
Sept.(engine
time around 100hrs). Within a couple of months I started having problems
every once in a while when starting the engine it would run extremely rough
initially, but after shutting down, turning prop by hand, it would start and
run fine. I could note when it started but running rough, that I would have
a cold cylinder (usually #1 or #2) . These symptoms gradually got worse
until
recently, after engine was shut down and cooled off (a few hours), I would
have
no compression at all and have to turn prop over by hand or crank with
starter,
then wait, then do it some more to finally start getting compression..i.e.
sticking valves. Time on engine is now about 130hrs. I talked to a rotax
repairman
in Arlington,TN (Rodney Hardin) and he told me he had seen this happen
on 912's and had found fiberglass fuel tanks being "dissolved" by the
ethanol
in the auto gas and the resulting contamination was causing the stuck valve
problem.
When inspecting by tanks thru the fuel opening I could see significant
areas of exposed fiberglass so following his suggestion I removed the valve
covers
one at a time and sprayed a small amount of carb cleaner on valve stems
and turned prop by hand until I got enough compression to start the engine,
drained
the fuel system and disconnected fuel lines, and then hooked up a temp fuel
tank, and added a fuel system/valve cleaner additive and ground ran for
about
45 minutes on Friday. On Saturday when I first turned the prop by hand I
did not have the normal full compression(like I feel when shutting down
engine)
, but enough to start engine and it ran normally (no roughness) and so I
ground
ran fo!
r anothe
r 20 minutes. On Sunday I turned prop over by hand and it had what I believe
to
be "full compression" on all cylinders like it used to before this scenario
started.
Mr Hardin said he had seen fiberglass tanks (not kitfox ones) that were
deteriorated so bad they were not structurally sound and attributed this to
the ethanol in the gas. At this point I can only say that I believe
something
in the unleaded gas reacted with either the fiberglass resin, or the Kreem,
or
the mil-h-6000 fuel hose and caused the sticking valve problem. My plan now
is
to remove wings and use MEK to remove the Kreem and then re-slosh with Kreem
per several replies to my original post. I am also going to change the fuel
lines
to one of the types recommended on this or the rotax forum. Sorry for the
length of this post, but maybe someone else may benefit from my experience.
Thanks again, Paul Perry KFIV 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253805#253805
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rt_tank_003_746.jpg
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 06:34:26 PM PST US
From: "Dave G" <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
The deposits appear in different places and seem related to fiberglass
tanks. References to black deposits in engines is more common in marine
applications. Here is a link to one.
http://www.ardujenski.com/files/documents/fueltest.pdf
It relates to alchohol but perhaps these deposits show up in new tanks
moreso than older ones. In any case it looks like this material is
soming into the engine from the tanks.
Maybe a good waashout or seasoning with fuel which must then be disposed
is an answer. Anybody starting up a new "fox from early nineties?
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 06:51:58 PM PST US
From: "Pat Reilly" <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Grey heads RV seal update
Kitfoxers, Started and ran my 582 grey head engine. It ran fine. A Trike
pilot who considers himself an expert on 582's tells me to pull the
rotary valve and install newer type seals or it will difinetly fail.
What's the general consenses on this topic? The engine has 100 hours and
was stored about 2 years before I cranked it up.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 07:14:13 PM PST US
From: "Noel" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 stuck - update
Have you tried brake cleaner. It is usually rubber safe and will dissolve
most tars.
I'd like to see an analysis done on the gunk... My bet is it will be epoxy
resin. Check to see if any of this goo is in the float bowls... I have the
funny feeling you may find your tanks dissolving too! Goo in the base can
only get there through the carb... in the fuel. Mineral oils are used to
mothball engines and I find it hard to see that stuff turning to goo while
the engine is operating.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ronlee
Sent: 19 July 2009 11:20
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 stuck - update
Transmission shops use carburetor cleaner to clean the burnt on varnish off
parts all the time.
They have it in five gallon containers. maybe you could find some shop with
a container large enough to soak the whole crank case. I do not know what it
would do to the seals though.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253706#253706
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 07:14:13 PM PST US
From: "Noel" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
I suggest you guys start testing your fuel for ethanol concentration.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shane Sather
Sent: 19 July 2009 14:04
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
This seems almost like mine was when I first kit my fox. The first few hours
on the engine all was good. Then all hell poured loose and the inside of the
engine got coated with a tar like stuff and had to be cleaned all out. We
believe it came from the fuel tanks.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cecil Stokesberry <mailto:stokesc@wildblue.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
Stuck seems to be the right word for this situation.
I removed the head - still stuck.
I removed the gear box - still stuck.
I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
pump off. Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
Everything is covered with this and is very sticky.
Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
So, where did this stuff come from?
I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
when shipped here.
Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.
The engine is dated Jan 1991.
I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
break-in procedure. Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
problem developed.
Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
And they are pricey.
Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
Cecil in N. Idaho
N161CP Kitfox IV - 582 C 1050
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 10:46:41 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
From: Cecil Stokesberry <stokesc@wildblue.net>
The instructions I used for first start of engine was to
add some oil to the fuel just in case the oil injector
did not work. This I did and maybe I put too much oil
in the fuel and the oil injector did work as it should.
Maybe this was the start of it all.
I will look in the flood bowl to see if there is any gunk.
Carb clearer works very well in dissolving this black gunk.
I will also try brake cleaner to see how it works.
I doubt if either will harm the crank bearings, but I am
concerned what damage the cleaner might do to the
oil seals or o-rings.
Cecil
Kitfox IV 1050 582 C
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 10:49:19 PM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
At 06:28 PM 7/19/2009, you wrote:
>The deposits appear in different places and seem related to
>fiberglass tanks. References to black deposits in engines is more
>common in marine applications. Here is a link to one.
Here in Ramona we had the dreaded sludge in a Kitfox III with a 912.
It was attributed to bad gas, and the tanks were unequivocally exonerated.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 11:27:01 PM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grey heads RV seal update
At 06:47 PM 7/19/2009, you wrote:
>A Trike pilot who considers himself an expert on 582's tells me to
>pull the rotary valve and install newer type seals or it will difinetly
fail.
If he means the new rotary valve seal that's a big negative. The
problem got solved when everyone switched to the "silicate free"
coolant. I've got 400 hours on original rotary seals with no problem.
(Knock on woodie.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up |
If Kreem is done right the ethanol can't hurt it. This was either done very wrong
or it is not really Kreem.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253972#253972
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: 582 stuck - update |
I confess I have not read allt he messages. Maybe some foam was left
in the tank -dissolves with fuel. Hmmm.
PW
=======
At 10:54 AM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Paul, if you read the report at the link of the last post I sent,
>it looks like the "gunk" is composed of styrene in their tests.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:pwmac@sisna.com>paul wilson
>To: <mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:57 AM
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
>Noel, No way it sugar . That is a false old wives tail. All it does
>is just lay in the tank waiting to clog the filters. If it arrives
>in the engine, unlikely, it does not produce the black junk that we
>created in the chem lab.
>The fuel and or tank coating is my best guesss. The designer
>unleaded fuels in some markets have things a lot worse than alcohol.
>These various additives are aromatics to solve some perceived
>pollution and they are very aggressive. The 10% alky is unlikely the
>problem since it is so common in use with the glass tanks and common
>tank coatings that do not result in black junk. Another possible
>issue could be an off the wall tank coating that none of the other
>guys have used.
>
>Probably a chem lab analysis of the black junk is in order.
>PW
>=========
>
>At 09:08 AM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
>>If there is anything in the float bowls then you will have to check
>>the tanks... be sure to use a sealed light there. An excess of
>>oil would cause your engine to be very smoky and could even cause
>>the plugs to foul but black goo in the base where unburned atomized
>>fuel lives is not normal. The only other thing I can think of is
>>if someone sugared your gas... even that shouldn't show up in the
>>base of the engine.
>>
>>The fact the stuff seems to be resistant to carb cleaner makes ne
>>think what you are seeing is the resins that form your fuel
>>tanks. Do you drain your gascolator before every flight? It is
>>surprising that the goo didn't turn up there as a yellowish slime.
>>
>>Noel
>>
>>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [
>>mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Stokesberry
>>Sent: 20 July 2009 03:13
>>To: Kitfox
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>>
>>The instructions I used for first start of engine was to
>>add some oil to the fuel just in case the oil injector
>>did not work. This I did and maybe I put too much oil
>>in the fuel and the oil injector did work as it should.
>>Maybe this was the start of it all.
>>I will look in the flood bowl to see if there is any gunk.
>>Carb clearer works very well in dissolving this black gunk.
>>I will also try brake cleaner to see how it works.
>>I doubt if either will harm the crank bearings, but I am
>>concerned what damage the cleaner might do to the
>>oil seals or o-rings.
>>
>>Cecil
>>Kitfox IV 1050 582 C
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09 |
Ed, the older 582s arrived with very rich idle jets. Buy a set a couple
numbers leaner and I'm pretty sure your engine will significantly smooth out
at idle so you can idle down for landing. Remember, except for landing,
keep the idle above 2000 to save wear on the gear box.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 427+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Gray" <egraylaw@swbell.net>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 1:37 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09
>
> Kitfox guys, on the subject of older 582u engines, I have just installed
> the
> prop on my 1990 grayhead and test ran it. The engine sat in the original
> box for 18 years, looked well lubed inside, and I did no dissassembly
> before
> running it. I added some oil to the first gallon of gas but now running
> on
> the oil tank. It seems to run strong at all rpms, idles ok at 2400 and
> doesn't want to idle below 2000 at all. I will test fly it soon, after
> some
> taxi testing. Any reason to mess with the engine if it is running strong?
> Hope to see some of you at OSH. I plan on coming in on the 29th in my
> Mooney and camping on North 40. Do not archive.
>
> Ed Gray, Dallas, Mod 2, 582, GSC 3 blade.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
> Digest Server
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 1:59 AM
> To: Kitfox-List Digest List
> Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
> 09-07-19&Archive=Kitfox
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 2009-07-19&Archive=Kitfox
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kitfox-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 07/19/09: 17
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:04 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Lynn Matteson)
> 2. 04:07 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Ken Potter)
> 3. 06:52 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (ronlee)
> 4. 09:40 AM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Shane Sather)
> 5. 12:20 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
> 6. 01:02 PM - Twin lead throttle cable (wingnut)
> 7. 01:40 PM - Re: Twin lead throttle cable (jdmcbean)
> 8. 03:44 PM - Re: Twin lead throttle cable (Tom Jones)
> 9. 04:46 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Randy Daughenbaugh)
> 10. 06:34 PM - Kreem Problem Follow Up (pperrynas)
> 11. 06:34 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Dave G)
> 12. 06:51 PM - Grey heads RV seal update (Pat Reilly)
> 13. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: 582 stuck - update (Noel)
> 14. 07:14 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Noel)
> 15. 10:46 PM - 582 stuck - update (Cecil Stokesberry)
> 16. 10:49 PM - Re: 582 stuck - update (Guy Buchanan)
> 17. 11:27 PM - Re: Grey heads RV seal update (Guy Buchanan)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:04:32 AM PST US
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
>
> I had a similar experience just recently with a single-cylinder
> Briggs and Stratton engine that was out of a cultivator. The piston
> was so stuck in the bore that it needed to be pried out. I found a
> sticky substance in the pan that was grey-looking and very sticky.
> They grey color was probably from the aluminum cylinder walls, but
> the stickiness I just can't explain. I used alcohol, MEK, mineral
> spirits, water, lacquer thinner, and finally carburetor cleaner to
> try to dissolve the stuff. None of these products seemed to cut the
> stuff, but with some soaking, the carb cleaner finally got rid of
> it....not like it should have, though. Of course, the EPA has
> weakened the carb cleaner to the point that you could damn near drink
> it...it sure isn't as potent as it used to be. I hope you find the
> answer.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 707.7 hrs
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
> do not archive
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2009, at 12:47 AM, Cecil Stokesberry wrote:
>
>> Stuck seems to be the right word for this situation.
>> I removed the head - still stuck.
>> I removed the gear box - still stuck.
>> I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
>> Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
>> pump off. Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
>> And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
>> Everything is covered with this and is very sticky.
>> Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
>> It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
>> I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
>> So, where did this stuff come from?
>> I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
>> when shipped here.
>> Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.
>> The engine is dated Jan 1991.
>> I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
>> break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
>> break-in procedure. Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
>> problem developed.
>>
>> Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
>> There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
>> Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
>> The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
>>
>> Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
>>
>> I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
>> And they are pricey.
>> Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
>>
>> Cecil in N. Idaho
>> N161CP Kitfox IV - 582 C 1050
>>
>>
>> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
>> ==========================================================
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:07:49 AM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 stuck - update
> From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
>
>
> I would be interested in any other's experience of Cecil's problem. My
> 582
> was
> delivered to the previous owner in 1991. In 2003, not even having run it
> yet
> he had it "updated" by a rotax dealer. When I purchased the project from
> him
> in 2007 I remember him saying that after the update it had been
> "preserved"
> by
> the dealer. Now, my experience as a mechanical engineer tells me that
> this
> is normally done just using a preservative oil which is compatible with
> other
> oils. But as I'll be ready to start and break mine in within the next
> couple
> of months, Cecil's observations have me wondering.....
>
> --------
> Ken Potter
> Model II, No. 483
> Rotax 582, C-Box,
> 98% Complete
> C-FJKP (marks reserved)
> Lanark, Ontario
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253696#253696
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:52:28 AM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 stuck - update
> From: "ronlee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
>
>
> Transmission shops use carburetor cleaner to clean the burnt on varnish
> off
> parts
> all the time.
> They have it in five gallon containers. maybe you could find some shop
> with
> a container
> large enough to soak the whole crank case. I do not know what it would
> do to the seals though.
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253706#253706
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:40:51 AM PST US
> From: "Shane Sather" <shanesather@netkaster.ca>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
> This seems almost like mine was when I first kit my fox. The first few
> hours on the engine all was good. Then all hell poured loose and the
> inside of the engine got coated with a tar like stuff and had to be
> cleaned all out. We believe it came from the fuel tanks.
>
> Do not archive.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cecil Stokesberry
> To: Kitfox
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:47 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
>
> Stuck seems to be the right word for this situation.
> I removed the head - still stuck.
> I removed the gear box - still stuck.
> I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
> Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
> pump off. Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
> And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
> Everything is covered with this and is very sticky.
> Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
> It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
> I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
> So, where did this stuff come from?
> I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
> when shipped here.
> Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.
> The engine is dated Jan 1991.
> I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
> break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
> break-in procedure. Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
> problem developed.
>
> Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
> There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
> Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
> The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
>
> Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
>
> I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
> And they are pricey.
> Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
>
> Cecil in N. Idaho
> N161CP Kitfox IV - 582 C 1050
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:20:47 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
> From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Sun, July 19, 2009 9:34 am, Shane Sather wrote:
>> ...... The first few hours on the
>> engine all was good. Then all hell poured loose and the inside of the
> engine
> got
>> coated with a tar like stuff and had to be cleaned all out. We believe it
> came
> from
>> the fuel tanks.
>
> I've been following this thread and I too suspect the fouling wasn't
> present
> when
> the
> engine was first run. Something in contact with the fuel is the cause
> rather
> than
> the
> pickling process on the engine done for long term storage.
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
>
> CULTURE
>
> "A civilized society's first line of defense is not the law, police and
> courts but customs, traditions and moral values. Behavioral norms, mostly
> transmitted by example, word of mouth and religious teachings, represent a
> body of wisdom distilled over the ages through experience and trial and
> error. They include important thou-shalt-nots such as shalt not murder,
> shalt not steal, shalt not lie and cheat, but they also include all those
> courtesies one might call ladylike and gentlemanly conduct. The failure to
> fully transmit values and traditions to subsequent generations represents
> one of the failings of the so-called greatest generation. ... Policemen
> and
> laws can never replace customs, traditions and moral values as a means for
> regulating human behavior. At best, the police and criminal justice system
> are the last desperate line of defense for a civilized society. Our
> increased reliance on laws to regulate behavior is a measure of how
> uncivilized we've become."
> -- Walter E. Williams, George Mason University economics professor
>
> "The Founding Fathers established a system which meant a radical
> break from that which preceded it. A written constitution would
> provide a permanent form of government, limited in scope, but
> effective in providing both liberty and order. Government was not
> to be a matter of self-appointed rulers, governing by whim or harsh
> ideology. It was not to be government by the strongest or for the
> few. Our principles were revolutionary. We began as a small, weak
> republic. But we survived. Our example inspired others, imperfectly
> at times, but it inspired them nevertheless. This constitutional
> republic, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition
> that all men are created equal, prospered and grew strong. To this
> day, America is still the abiding alternative to tyranny. That is
> our purpose in the world -- nothing more and nothing less."
> -- Ronald Reagan
>
> "The nation which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or
> an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to
> its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to
> lead it astray from its duty and its interest."
> -- George Washington
>
> About the Federalist Papers - wiki
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Papers>
> All of them presented in the Library of Congress
> <http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fedpapers.html>
> Searchable e-text of the Federalist and other documents too.
> <http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:02:29 PM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Twin lead throttle cable
> From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>
>
> I'm installing the twin lead throttle cable from Aircraft Spruce:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/rotaxdualthrottle.php
>
> It works ok but it lacks the ratcheting lock that my old throttle had. In
> order
> to hold idle, I have to keep the adjustable resistance set fairly high to
> counteract
> the throttle springs. I find it cumbersome. Anyone have a better solution?
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253762#253762
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:40:57 PM PST US
> From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@kitfoxaircraft.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Twin lead throttle cable
>
>
> Luis,
> We have offered this type of cable for some time with the fittings
> for the carbs. We can also offer them with as a vernier type throttle.
>
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> Ph 208.337.5111
> www.kitfoxaircraft.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 2:00 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Twin lead throttle cable
>
>
> I'm installing the twin lead throttle cable from Aircraft Spruce:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/rotaxdualthrottle.php
>
> It works ok but it lacks the ratcheting lock that my old throttle had. In
> order to hold idle, I have to keep the adjustable resistance set fairly
> high
> to counteract the throttle springs. I find it cumbersome. Anyone have a
> better solution?
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253762#253762
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:44:20 PM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Twin lead throttle cable
> From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
>
>
> Luis, the throttle that came with my kit has just the adjustable friction
> lock.
> It took me only a short while to get used to operating it with one hand.
> I
> turn all the friction off for taxi, takeoff and climb out because my hand
> will
> be on the throttle all that time anyhow. When I reduce throttle and level
> off
> I can set the throttle for the desired RPM and turn the friction knob with
> two
> fingers and thumb to hold it there, then take my hand off the throttle.
>
> When I descend, enter the pattern and land I take the friction off and
> keep
> my
> hand on the throttle again.
>
> I started out flying my kitfox by setting the friction enough to hold the
> RPM but
> still be able to push the throttle in...I thought. On my second or third
> takeoff
> I took my had off to scratch my nose and it slipped back to idle at about
> 100 feet off the ground and scared the crap out of me. I thought the
> engine
> had done did the dreaded two stroke seizure.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253781#253781
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:46:03 PM PST US
> From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
> I would like to second Shane's suggestion. I had a similar problem with
> my
> 912S. It ran great for several flights then the starter carbs (choke is a
> misnomer for this engine) stuck. I took them apart, cleaned them up, and
> then flew a couple of flights and they gummed up again. I got smart this
> time and drained all the gas from the tanks, cleaned the starter carbs
> again, and then with new gas, had no more problems.
>
> I hate to admit that I have further confirmation that the problem was with
> the gas (or more correctly, with the gas tanks!). I took the bad gas
> home
> intending to use it to burn slash piles and lost track of it. I put it in
> my lawn mower and ended up pulling the carb and cleaning it! (*&%#$*(&
>
> This sounds different in scale, but ,,,,
>
> Randy
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shane Sather
> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
> This seems almost like mine was when I first kit my fox. The first few
> hours
> on the engine all was good. Then all hell poured loose and the inside of
> the
> engine got coated with a tar like stuff and had to be cleaned all out. We
> believe it came from the fuel tanks.
>
> Do not archive.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cecil <mailto:stokesc@wildblue.net> Stokesberry
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:47 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
> Stuck seems to be the right word for this situation.
> I removed the head - still stuck.
> I removed the gear box - still stuck.
> I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
> Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
> pump off. Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
> And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
> Everything is covered with this and is very sticky.
> Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
> It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
> I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
> So, where did this stuff come from?
> I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
> when shipped here.
> Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.
> The engine is dated Jan 1991.
> I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
> break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
> break-in procedure. Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
> problem developed.
>
> Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
> There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
> Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
> The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
>
> Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
>
> I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
> And they are pricey.
> Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
>
> Cecil in N. Idaho
> N161CP Kitfox IV - 582 C 1050
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
> "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:34:26 PM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreem Problem Follow Up
> From: "pperrynas" <pperryrph@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
> Again, thanks to everyone who responded to my orig post about the Kreem
> Prob, and
> I thought I would add some more info on what prompted me to look into the
> fuel
> tanks for a problem as well as post pics I took of the inside of the tanks
> with a mini webcam. I purchased the plane from the orig builder about a
> year
> ago, and started using unleaded gas either 89 or 93 oct (912ul 80hp)
> around
> Sept.(engine
> time around 100hrs). Within a couple of months I started having problems
> every once in a while when starting the engine it would run extremely
> rough
> initially, but after shutting down, turning prop by hand, it would start
> and
> run fine. I could note when it started but running rough, that I would
> have
> a cold cylinder (usually #1 or #2) . These symptoms gradually got worse
> until
> recently, after engine was shut down and cooled off (a few hours), I would
> have
> no compression at all and have to turn prop over by hand or crank with
> starter,
> then wait, then do it some more to finally start getting compression..i.e.
> sticking valves. Time on engine is now about 130hrs. I talked to a rotax
> repairman
> in Arlington,TN (Rodney Hardin) and he told me he had seen this happen
> on 912's and had found fiberglass fuel tanks being "dissolved" by the
> ethanol
> in the auto gas and the resulting contamination was causing the stuck
> valve
> problem.
> When inspecting by tanks thru the fuel opening I could see significant
> areas of exposed fiberglass so following his suggestion I removed the
> valve
> covers
> one at a time and sprayed a small amount of carb cleaner on valve stems
> and turned prop by hand until I got enough compression to start the
> engine,
> drained
> the fuel system and disconnected fuel lines, and then hooked up a temp
> fuel
> tank, and added a fuel system/valve cleaner additive and ground ran for
> about
> 45 minutes on Friday. On Saturday when I first turned the prop by hand I
> did not have the normal full compression(like I feel when shutting down
> engine)
> , but enough to start engine and it ran normally (no roughness) and so I
> ground
> ran fo!
> r anothe
>
> r 20 minutes. On Sunday I turned prop over by hand and it had what I
> believe
> to
> be "full compression" on all cylinders like it used to before this
> scenario
> started.
> Mr Hardin said he had seen fiberglass tanks (not kitfox ones) that were
> deteriorated so bad they were not structurally sound and attributed this
> to
> the ethanol in the gas. At this point I can only say that I believe
> something
> in the unleaded gas reacted with either the fiberglass resin, or the
> Kreem,
> or
> the mil-h-6000 fuel hose and caused the sticking valve problem. My plan
> now
> is
> to remove wings and use MEK to remove the Kreem and then re-slosh with
> Kreem
> per several replies to my original post. I am also going to change the
> fuel
> lines
> to one of the types recommended on this or the rotax forum. Sorry for the
> length of this post, but maybe someone else may benefit from my
> experience.
> Thanks again, Paul Perry KFIV 912ul
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253805#253805
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rt_tank_003_746.jpg
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:34:26 PM PST US
> From: "Dave G" <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
> The deposits appear in different places and seem related to fiberglass
> tanks. References to black deposits in engines is more common in marine
> applications. Here is a link to one.
>
> http://www.ardujenski.com/files/documents/fueltest.pdf
>
> It relates to alchohol but perhaps these deposits show up in new tanks
> moreso than older ones. In any case it looks like this material is
> soming into the engine from the tanks.
>
> Maybe a good waashout or seasoning with fuel which must then be disposed
> is an answer. Anybody starting up a new "fox from early nineties?
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:51:58 PM PST US
> From: "Pat Reilly" <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Grey heads RV seal update
>
> Kitfoxers, Started and ran my 582 grey head engine. It ran fine. A Trike
> pilot who considers himself an expert on 582's tells me to pull the
> rotary valve and install newer type seals or it will difinetly fail.
> What's the general consenses on this topic? The engine has 100 hours and
> was stored about 2 years before I cranked it up.
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:14:13 PM PST US
> From: "Noel" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 stuck - update
>
>
> Have you tried brake cleaner. It is usually rubber safe and will dissolve
> most tars.
>
> I'd like to see an analysis done on the gunk... My bet is it will be
> epoxy
> resin. Check to see if any of this goo is in the float bowls... I have
> the
> funny feeling you may find your tanks dissolving too! Goo in the base can
> only get there through the carb... in the fuel. Mineral oils are used to
> mothball engines and I find it hard to see that stuff turning to goo while
> the engine is operating.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ronlee
> Sent: 19 July 2009 11:20
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 stuck - update
>
>
> Transmission shops use carburetor cleaner to clean the burnt on varnish
> off
> parts all the time.
> They have it in five gallon containers. maybe you could find some shop
> with
> a container large enough to soak the whole crank case. I do not know what
> it
> would do to the seals though.
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253706#253706
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:14:13 PM PST US
> From: "Noel" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
> I suggest you guys start testing your fuel for ethanol concentration.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shane Sather
> Sent: 19 July 2009 14:04
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
>
> This seems almost like mine was when I first kit my fox. The first few
> hours
> on the engine all was good. Then all hell poured loose and the inside of
> the
> engine got coated with a tar like stuff and had to be cleaned all out. We
> believe it came from the fuel tanks.
>
>
> Do not archive.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Cecil Stokesberry <mailto:stokesc@wildblue.net>
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:47 PM
>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
>
> Stuck seems to be the right word for this situation.
>
> I removed the head - still stuck.
>
> I removed the gear box - still stuck.
>
> I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
>
> Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
>
> pump off. Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
>
> And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
>
> Everything is covered with this and is very sticky.
>
> Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
>
> It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
>
> I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
>
> So, where did this stuff come from?
>
> I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
>
> when shipped here.
>
> Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.
>
> The engine is dated Jan 1991.
>
> I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
>
> break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
>
> break-in procedure. Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
>
> problem developed.
>
>
> Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
>
> There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
>
> Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
>
> The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
>
>
> Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
>
>
> I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
>
> And they are pricey.
>
> Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
>
>
> Cecil in N. Idaho
>
> N161CP Kitfox IV - 582 C 1050
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
> "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 15
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:46:41 PM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
> From: Cecil Stokesberry <stokesc@wildblue.net>
>
> The instructions I used for first start of engine was to
> add some oil to the fuel just in case the oil injector
> did not work. This I did and maybe I put too much oil
> in the fuel and the oil injector did work as it should.
> Maybe this was the start of it all.
> I will look in the flood bowl to see if there is any gunk.
> Carb clearer works very well in dissolving this black gunk.
> I will also try brake cleaner to see how it works.
> I doubt if either will harm the crank bearings, but I am
> concerned what damage the cleaner might do to the
> oil seals or o-rings.
>
> Cecil
> Kitfox IV 1050 582 C
>
> ________________________________ Message 16
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:49:19 PM PST US
> From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
>
> At 06:28 PM 7/19/2009, you wrote:
>>The deposits appear in different places and seem related to
>>fiberglass tanks. References to black deposits in engines is more
>>common in marine applications. Here is a link to one.
>
> Here in Ramona we had the dreaded sludge in a Kitfox III with a 912.
> It was attributed to bad gas, and the tanks were unequivocally exonerated.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
> ________________________________ Message 17
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:27:01 PM PST US
> From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grey heads RV seal update
>
>
> At 06:47 PM 7/19/2009, you wrote:
>>A Trike pilot who considers himself an expert on 582's tells me to
>>pull the rotary valve and install newer type seals or it will difinetly
> fail.
>
> If he means the new rotary valve seal that's a big negative. The
> problem got solved when everyone switched to the "silicate free"
> coolant. I've got 400 hours on original rotary seals with no problem.
> (Knock on woodie.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up |
Hi
Does anyone know where Kreem can be purchased in Canada. I can't seem to
find it.
Thanks
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: July 20, 2009 5:27 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up
If Kreem is done right the ethanol can't hurt it. This was either done very
wrong or it is not really Kreem.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253972#253972
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 582 stuck - update |
Does the tar like substance desolve in water? If so did someone put sugar in your
tank or fuel? Sugar forms a molasses like gum with heat.
John Greaves
Redding, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Cecil Stokesberry <stokesc@wildblue.net>
Sent: Sat, Jul 18, 2009 11:47 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 stuck - update
Stuck seems to be the right word? for this situation.
I removed the head - still stuck.
I removed the gear box - still stuck.
I then took off the cylinders - still stuck but not as much.
Took the engine out of the plane and took the ign and oil
pump off.? Had a good look inside the crankcase and elsewhere.
And..............found a layer of what looks and feels like tar.
Everything is covered with? this and is very sticky.
Even the rings are stuck with the stuff.
It seems to clean up with carb cleaner.
I think this is the "stuck" culprit.
So, where did this stuff come from?
I think maybe the engine was stored with some kind of preservatives
when shipped here.??
Then during many storage years it turned into this stuff.?
The engine is dated Jan 1991.
I finally hung it on the airplane in 2006 and first run-up for
break-in in 2008. Every thing seemed normal for the hour
break-in procedure.? Then during taxi test in 2009 the stuck
problem developed.
?
Any ideas how this stuff might have developed ?
There is no evidence of any metal to metal dings.
Fuel used was Conoco prem with no evidence of ethanol.
The oil tank shows oil being consumed normally.
?
Is there any way to clean up this stuff without splitting the case?
?
I don't have the special tools to disassemble and assemble the engine.
And they are pricey.
Anyone have these tools that would be willing to rent them to me.
?
Cecil in N. Idaho
N161CP Kitfox IV -? 582 C 1050
?
?
?
?
Message 16
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Just bought some more of the 5/ 16 'R9' blue inner liner for bio-fuel from
Autozone for $3.99 a foot.=0A-George=0ASport Model - 914- almost, but not
yet!=0Ado not archive =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: Vic Baker <vr_baker@nvbell.net>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent:
Monday, July 20, 2009 10:34:15 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel line=0A
=0A=0AI used 1/4" Bing alcohol resistant fuel line - Blue - for the vent li
ne.- Aircraft Spruce.=0A-=0ARecently changed out all the 5/16" mil 6000
kit supplied fuel line for- SAE J30R9-fuel injection hose.-- No, n
ot cheap,--more tolerant to-ethanol contaminated fuel.--- Your
local auto parts supplier will have.=0A-=0A-=0A--------
-=0AVic Baker=0AS7 912S Warp=0ACarson City, Nv=0A----- Original Message -
---- =0A>From: rosane beaule =0A>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Mo
nday, July 20, 2009 9:55 AM=0A>Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel line=0A>=0A>=0A>F
olding my wings yesterday on my Kitfox 4, I realized the tygon tubing line
used to vent the heather tank to the right wing tank is very dry and I'm af
raid it may crack.To avoid to make an order just for that, I tought of usin
g the bing 1/4 blue fuel line fro Aircraft Spruce to replace it.(I have a l
enth of that) Is this a good idea? Also, I want to replace the rubber fuel
lines. What is the best hoses to use for those? I think they are 5/16 lines
.=0A>Thanks all=0A>Jack=0A>Kitfox 4- Rotax 912=0A> href="http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.m
atronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 07/19/09 |
At 10:37 AM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
>Any reason to mess with the engine if it is running strong?
I rebuilt my 13 year old 0-time engine at 50 hours, replacing the
old-style crank with new and replacing all the soft goods. I doubt it
was really necessary, but I don't like surprises. Been running good
for 300 hours since.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up |
I'm assuming that the Kreem was coming off for sometime probably due to the inadequate
cleaning of the release agent from the mold process by the manufacturer
(Skystar?) as stated on this forum by several others. Sorry, I'm not familiar
with what's available in Canada, but it can be purchased from JC Whitney online,
and you might check with motorcycle parts suppliers. Paul P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254015#254015
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