Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:29 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Tanks (Dave G)
2. 03:35 AM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up (Dave G)
3. 03:52 AM - Re: Fuel Tanks (dave)
4. 03:54 AM - Re: Rotax 912 wanted (dave)
5. 05:31 AM - Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up (dave)
6. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Tanks (paul wilson)
7. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up (Lowell Fitt)
8. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up (Scott DeMeyer)
9. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up (paul wilson)
10. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Tanks (Dave G)
Message 1
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None personally Dave, it just seems the whole ethanol issue is problematic
in the U.S. we don't have any in our fuel yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:19 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Tanks
>
> [quote="occom"]I wonder how the progress of leadfree avgas is coming.
> That would solve a lot of problems. There has been little in the way of
> news that I've seen.
>
>> ---
>
>
> What problems have you seen ?
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255063#255063
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up |
Hi Dave, have a closer look at the web site, those tanks are intended to
retrofit inside the glass tanks from Kitfox. So unless you want to adapt
something it may be more trouble than just ordering the new ones from
Kitfox. as I understand it the new ones use a more resistant resin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:18 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up
>
> Is there anyone actually having ethanol tanks fall apart yet ?
>
> Mine have no Kreem coating and I must just be lucky to not have leaks ?
>
>
> After seeing those flakes of Kreem above, I think I would have to see a
> tank fall apart before I put that stuff in my tanks.
>
> I am looking at adding tanks to 2 Kitfoxs both Model 2 s with no wing
> tanks. Wingtanks.com plastic tanks seem to fit the bill. Has anyone used
> these ?
>
>
> Dave
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255062#255062
>
>
>
Message 3
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> None personally Dave, it just seems the whole ethanol issue is problematic
> in the U.S. we don't have any in our fuel yet.
Dave, AS far as I know most of Canada has ethanol gas for the last few years.
I still waiting to see evidence . If it was as bad as all the fear mongers make
it out to be -- you would see Airplanes, boats, lawnmowers, generators,cars
and every gasoline fired unit being stranded all over the place.
I am not seeing this happen yet, am I blind ?
I actually have over 700 hours in ethanol powered aircraft in the last few years
alone and have not seen anything YET !!
I have 8 other aircraft that hangar at my place and a few pre mix 2 strokes that
have had zero issues that use regular grade auto gas.
Must be happening somewhere as many are so negative on ethanol gas. Rotax approved
the use of it up to 10% .
I like to go by realtime facts than un-conclusive research read on the internet.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255082#255082
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 wanted |
Getting it picked up today.
Will post the log info as I get it later today hopefully.
send me email dave AT cfisher DOT com and I will forward info to you.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255083#255083
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up |
occom wrote:
> Hi Dave, have a closer look at the web site, those tanks are intended to
> retrofit inside the glass tanks from Kitfox. So unless you want to adapt
> something it may be more trouble than just ordering the new ones from
> Kitfox. as I understand it the new ones use a more resistant resin.
>
> ---
I talked to Them and they said you can mount them alone and not in an existing
tank as well. Web site is kind of vague I agree. But the tanks are not like
fiberglass tanks that are resistant but are ethanol proof.
Alot of others use this style of tank as well. RAns, Highlander, Beavers, Chinnooks
etc....... I think they are far superior to glass tanks. Some say that
the fiberglass tanks are a structural part of the Kitfox wing. I am not sure
but if so then then that means if the tank fails ore weakens due to it being
resistant than the structural integrity would be compromised. So if you tanks
leak then it not safe to fly ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255085#255085
Message 6
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Its not the ethanol that is the problem its the designer light
additives like toluene, etc. They are much more aggressive than
ethanol. Herein the states we find the designer unleaded in the high
pollution regions. Out in the rural areas it not as much of an issue.
PW
=============
At 04:49 AM 7/29/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > None personally Dave, it just seems the whole ethanol issue is problematic
> > in the U.S. we don't have any in our fuel yet.
>
>
>Dave, AS far as I know most of Canada has ethanol gas for the last few years.
>
>I still waiting to see evidence . If it was as bad as all the fear
>mongers make it out to be -- you would see Airplanes, boats,
>lawnmowers, generators,cars and every gasoline fired unit being
>stranded all over the place.
>
>I am not seeing this happen yet, am I blind ?
>
>
>I actually have over 700 hours in ethanol powered aircraft in the
>last few years alone and have not seen anything YET !!
>I have 8 other aircraft that hangar at my place and a few pre mix 2
>strokes that have had zero issues that use regular grade auto gas.
>
>Must be happening somewhere as many are so negative on ethanol
>gas. Rotax approved the use of it up to 10% .
>
>I like to go by realtime facts than un-conclusive research read on
>the internet.
>
>--------
>Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
>http://www.cfisher.com/
>Awesome *New Forum *
>http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
>Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
>http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255082#255082
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up |
Dave,
I think the great unknown is the wing bracing. In the manual, with the
original panel tank, there were drag - antidrag tubes mounted in the wing
tank area. Then with the optional 6 gallon and 13 gallon tanks with the
option of substituting wing lockers, etc. there are several optional drag -
antidrag configurations offered. For my money, and I am talking potential
liability if I was doing the installation for others in the course of a
business, I would not take the word of the tank manufacturer for what can be
done or not done. Of course if the tank guys would send documentation that
would indemnify you in the event of a claim - go for it. Yea right!
The talk here in the list is that if you cut the top off the original tanks,
leaving their structure in the wing for bracing, the tanks could then be
installed within the old tanks. With that being said, If the tanks serve
well alone, why were they designed to conveniently fit within the old tanks.
Not a grand coincidence I would think.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:28 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up
>
>
> occom wrote:
>> Hi Dave, have a closer look at the web site, those tanks are intended to
>> retrofit inside the glass tanks from Kitfox. So unless you want to adapt
>> something it may be more trouble than just ordering the new ones from
>> Kitfox. as I understand it the new ones use a more resistant resin.
>>
>> ---
>
>
> I talked to Them and they said you can mount them alone and not in an
> existing tank as well. Web site is kind of vague I agree. But the tanks
> are not like fiberglass tanks that are resistant but are ethanol proof.
>
> Alot of others use this style of tank as well. RAns, Highlander,
> Beavers, Chinnooks etc....... I think they are far superior to glass
> tanks. Some say that the fiberglass tanks are a structural part of the
> Kitfox wing. I am not sure but if so then then that means if the tank
> fails ore weakens due to it being resistant than the structural integrity
> would be compromised. So if you tanks leak then it not safe to fly ?
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255085#255085
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up |
For what it's worth, I looked into these replacement tanks after I decided
to replace mine, that fell apart. Although I'm sure they would work fine, I
decided to take the advice of Kitfox LLC and purchase the tanks from them.
Kitfox's concern was lack of testing as the tanks are part of the wing str
ucture.
Scott
--- On Wed, 7/29/09, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up
Dave,
I think the great unknown is the wing bracing.- In the manual, with the o
riginal panel tank, there were drag - antidrag tubes mounted in the wing ta
nk area.- Then with the optional 6 gallon and 13 gallon tanks with the op
tion of substituting wing lockers, etc. there are several optional drag - a
ntidrag configurations offered.- For my money, and I am talking potential
liability if I was doing the installation for others in the course of a bu
siness, I would not take the word of the tank manufacturer for what can be
done or not done.- Of course if the tank guys would send documentation th
at would indemnify you in the event of a claim - go for it.- Yea right!
The talk here in the list is that if you cut the top off the original tanks
, leaving their structure in the wing for bracing, the tanks could then be
installed within the old tanks.- With that being said, If the tanks serve
well alone, why were they designed to conveniently fit within the old tank
s. Not a grand coincidence I would think.
Lowell
----- Original Message ----- From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:28 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up
>
>
> occom wrote:
>> Hi Dave, have a closer look at the web site, those tanks are intended to
>> retrofit inside the glass tanks from Kitfox. So unless you want to adapt
>> something it may be more trouble than just ordering the new ones from
>> Kitfox. as I understand it the new ones use a more resistant resin.
>>
>> ---
>
>
> I talked to Them and they said you can mount them alone and not in an exi
sting tank as well.---Web site is kind of vague I agree.- But the t
anks are not like fiberglass tanks that are resistant but- are ethanol pr
oof.
>
> Alot of others use this style of tank as well.- RAns, Highlander, Beave
rs, Chinnooks- etc.......- I think they are far superior- to glass ta
nks.- Some say that the fiberglass tanks are a structural part of- the
Kitfox wing. I am not sure but if so then then that means if the tank fails
ore weakens due to it being resistant than the structural integrity would
be compromised.- So if you tanks leak then it not safe to fly ?
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate- the internet- chatter from the tr
uth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255085#255085
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up |
Lowell,
Good point. I would think a structural engineer blessed by kitfox
llc would be in order regardless of what the tank builder says. The
drag/anti are not put in just to add weight.
PW
============
At 08:31 AM 7/29/2009, you wrote:
>
>Dave,
>
>I think the great unknown is the wing bracing. In the manual, with
>the original panel tank, there were drag - antidrag tubes mounted in
>the wing tank area. Then with the optional 6 gallon and 13 gallon
>tanks with the option of substituting wing lockers, etc. there are
>several optional drag - antidrag configurations offered. For my
>money, and I am talking potential liability if I was doing the
>installation for others in the course of a business, I would not
>take the word of the tank manufacturer for what can be done or not
>done. Of course if the tank guys would send documentation that
>would indemnify you in the event of a claim - go for it. Yea right!
>
>The talk here in the list is that if you cut the top off the
>original tanks, leaving their structure in the wing for bracing, the
>tanks could then be installed within the old tanks. With that being
>said, If the tanks serve well alone, why were they designed to
>conveniently fit within the old tanks. Not a grand coincidence I would think.
>
>Lowell
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:28 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem Problem Follow Up
>
>
>>
>>
>>occom wrote:
>>>Hi Dave, have a closer look at the web site, those tanks are intended to
>>>retrofit inside the glass tanks from Kitfox. So unless you want to adapt
>>>something it may be more trouble than just ordering the new ones from
>>>Kitfox. as I understand it the new ones use a more resistant resin.
>>>
>>>---
>>
>>
>>I talked to Them and they said you can mount them alone and not in
>>an existing tank as well. Web site is kind of vague I agree. But
>>the tanks are not like fiberglass tanks that are resistant but are
>>ethanol proof.
>>
>>Alot of others use this style of tank as well. RAns, Highlander,
>>Beavers, Chinnooks etc....... I think they are far superior to
>>glass tanks. Some say that the fiberglass tanks are a structural
>>part of the Kitfox wing. I am not sure but if so then then that
>>means if the tank fails ore weakens due to it being resistant than
>>the structural integrity would be compromised. So if you tanks
>>leak then it not safe to fly ?
>>
>>--------
>>Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
>>http://www.cfisher.com/
>>Awesome *New Forum *
>>http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
>>Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
>>http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255085#255085
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 10
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I've asked about ethanol in fuel here in the maritimes and was assured that
we don't have it yet, I suppose it's coming.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> Must be happening somewhere as many are so negative on ethanol gas. Rotax
> approved the use of it up to 10% .
>
> I like to go by realtime facts than un-conclusive research read on the
> internet.
>
> --------
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