---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/05/09: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:08 AM - First post, any trailers available near WA/OR/ID ? (cschmokel) 2. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 3. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: IFR KItfox (Weiss Richard) 4. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox (Lowell Fitt) 5. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox (John W. Hart) 6. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 7. 09:16 AM - Diff pressure gauge (Clint Bazzill) 8. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 9. 10:38 AM - Re: IFR KItfox (JetPilot) 10. 10:41 AM - Re: IFR KItfox (JetPilot) 11. 10:56 AM - Re: Kitfox (jridgway) 12. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 13. 12:44 PM - Re: IFR KItfox (Michel Verheughe) 14. 01:17 PM - Re: IFR KItfox (Michel Verheughe) 15. 03:45 PM - Brake lines filling (rosane beaule) 16. 03:55 PM - Re : Trailer available (rosane beaule) 17. 03:57 PM - Re: Rotec TBI success story (akflyer) 18. 04:00 PM - Re: Brake lines filling (akflyer) 19. 04:29 PM - Re: IFR KItfox (akflyer) 20. 04:35 PM - Re: Brake lines filling (Glenn Horne) 21. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Rotec TBI success story (Lynn Matteson) 22. 05:48 PM - Re: Brake lines filling (Lynn Matteson) 23. 07:27 PM - Re: Kitfox (jridgway) 24. 07:53 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 25. 09:02 PM - Tool for positioning a bolt or washer plus nut (Maurice) 26. 10:38 PM - Re: Re : Trailer available (cschmokel) 27. 11:32 PM - Re: Tool for positioning a bolt or washer plus nut (Lowell Fitt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:45 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: First post, any trailers available near WA/OR/ID ? From: "cschmokel" Hey guys, I'm looking for a trailer within a few hundred miles of Pullman, WA. I'm just now learning how to weld and don't trust myself to fab a trailer which will haul a $40k aircraft around!! Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256116#256116 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:23 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox The FAA created the Light Sport category of the Experimental type for Airworthiness Certification in 2005 and set an end date of January 31st 2008 for the conversion of non-registered aircraft to the new type. This "amnesty" period applied to registration for an "N" number only, I registered my Kitfox II in late 2007 and applied for and was granted and ELSA Airworthiness Certificate in late 2008, after the closure of the amnesty period, with no problems. Any aircraft previously issued any Airworthiness type certificate was not eligible to convert to ELSA, only unregistered uncertificated aircraft but I certainly wouldn't call my or anyone else's aircraft that took advantage of this program "rogue". An ELSA aircraft is type certificated as "Experimental" with the same restrictions and privileges as EAB aircraft (Experimental - Amateur Built). True there are additional restrictions on weight, adjustable props, landing gear, and a few other things (see http://www.pilotfriend.com/experimental/spt_cat.htm for a complete list) but there is the added plus of being able to be the maintainer and inspector of your own aircraft even if you are not the builder, which for me was a major factor, and has absolutely nothing to do with the amnesty conversion period at the beginning of the category creation. No offense intended in correcting the statements in your post Jack, just trying to keep the facts straight here to avoid further confusion. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jridgway Sent: 05 August 2009 12:01 am Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox I just chatted with the A/P who does a lot of work with our EAA chapter. He told me we have about half a dozen fixed wing aircraft in the local area that are ELSA. These aircraft are home built but for numerous reasons were never were licensed EXPERIMENTAL and were just being flown as VERY HEAVY ULTRALIGHTS....lol..The FAA gave a chance for all these ROGUE aircraft to get legal by licensing them under the ELSA. This was about 2 years ago and terminated Dec 2008. If you did not take advantage of this AMNESTY you are really *^^)(& if you ever need to get legal now on a plane that was not registered by the original builder. Jack PS..Kind of interesting..If you purchased a EXPERIMENTAL aircraft (and were not the builder) you need a A/P to do the annual. If you purchased the same plane (and was unlicensed) under the ELSA amnesty anybody can go to a 2 day course and get a REPAIRMANS CERTIFICATE and do the annuals and the same aircraft.. PS..To be honest...the ELSA does have some restrictions that a fully registered EXPERIMENTAL does not have. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256105#256105 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:56 AM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: IFR KItfox Michel, Congratulations on getting your medical back. Having once been in the same mode, I know how happy you must be. Enjoy the flying! Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL On Aug 5, 2009, at 12:10 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > Michel: > > I suppose this happen very recently. I'm glad you don't need a > copilot anymore. I would guess your son disagree...now he has to > seat down and wait for his turn :-) > > Saludos! > > Jos=E9 > > From: Michel Verheughe > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 4:17:26 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: IFR KItfox > > I went flying alone in the mountains for the first time after I got > my license back. > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > > Do not archive > > 
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> f;                             -Matt Dralle, List bution">
>
> > ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:30 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Bob, In the interest of keeping the facts straight, Anyone can do the maintenance on an amateur built experimantal aircraft and can do the annual condition inspection as well --if he can find an A&P who will sign certifying that "this aircraft has been inspected on [date] according to....". You and I are entitled to sign and affix our certificate numbers as the responsible party after an inspection. In the approved wording, it doesn't specify who did the inspection. All that is required is that an owner find an A&P that is wiling to endorse the log book. This procedure is done all the time and I expect by most list non builder owners. Regarding the Rogue comment. I think it is a fair assessment of the FAAs incentive in beginning the ELSA program. There were numerous two place non conforming "Ultralight trainers" that were being flown without any licensing whatsoever. Many heavy non regulation conforming "ultralights" as well. Enough in fact that the FAA considered it a major issue. These were the rogue aircraft referred to in the original post. Your particular situation is piggy backed onto the original intent of the ELSA program and correct me if I am wrong, but your airplane was certified in another country and was kindly treated by the FAA as a previously uncertified aircraft. If the FAA had just decided to look the other way regarding the "rogue" aircraft, your licensing of your imported aircraft would have to have taken another route. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Covering Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:58 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > > > > The FAA created the Light Sport category of the Experimental type for > Airworthiness Certification in 2005 and set an end date of January 31st > 2008 > for the conversion of non-registered aircraft to the new type. This > "amnesty" period applied to registration for an "N" number only, I > registered my Kitfox II in late 2007 and applied for and was granted and > ELSA Airworthiness Certificate in late 2008, after the closure of the > amnesty period, with no problems. Any aircraft previously issued any > Airworthiness type certificate was not eligible to convert to ELSA, only > unregistered uncertificated aircraft but I certainly wouldn't call my or > anyone else's aircraft that took advantage of this program "rogue". > > An ELSA aircraft is type certificated as "Experimental" with the same > restrictions and privileges as EAB aircraft (Experimental - Amateur > Built). > True there are additional restrictions on weight, adjustable props, > landing > gear, and a few other things (see > http://www.pilotfriend.com/experimental/spt_cat.htm for a complete list) > but > there is the added plus of being able to be the maintainer and inspector > of > your own aircraft even if you are not the builder, which for me was a > major > factor, and has absolutely nothing to do with the amnesty conversion > period > at the beginning of the category creation. > > No offense intended in correcting the statements in your post Jack, just > trying to keep the facts straight here to avoid further confusion. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger > Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jridgway > Sent: 05 August 2009 12:01 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > > > > I just chatted with the A/P who does a lot of work with our EAA chapter. > He > told me we have about half a dozen fixed wing aircraft in the local area > that are ELSA. These aircraft are home built but for numerous reasons were > never were licensed EXPERIMENTAL and were just being flown as VERY HEAVY > ULTRALIGHTS....lol..The FAA gave a chance for all these ROGUE aircraft to > get legal by licensing them under the ELSA. This was about 2 years ago and > terminated Dec 2008. If you did not take advantage of this AMNESTY you are > really *^^)(& if you ever need to get legal now on a plane that was not > registered by the original builder. > Jack > PS..Kind of interesting..If you purchased a EXPERIMENTAL aircraft (and > were > not the builder) you need a A/P to do the annual. If you purchased the > same > plane (and was unlicensed) under the ELSA amnesty anybody can go to a 2 > day > course and get a REPAIRMANS CERTIFICATE and do the annuals and the same > aircraft.. > PS..To be honest...the ELSA does have some restrictions that a fully > registered EXPERIMENTAL does not have. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256105#256105 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:34 AM PST US From: "John W. Hart" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 65.85 Airframe rating; additional privileges. top (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, a certificated mechanic with an airframe rating may approve and return to service an airframe, or any related part or appliance, after he has performed, supervised, or inspected its maintenance or alteration (excluding major repairs and major alterations). In addition, he may perform the 100-hour inspection required by part 91 of this chapter on an airframe, or any related part or appliance, and approve and return it to service. (b) A certificated mechanic with an airframe rating can approve and return to service an airframe, or any related part or appliance, of an aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category after performing and inspecting a major repair or major alteration for products that are not produced under an FAA approval provided the work was performed in accordance with instructions developed by the manufacturer or a person acceptable to the FAA. [Doc. No. 1179, 27 FR 7973, Aug. 10, 1962, as amended by Amdt. 6510, 32 FR 5770, Apr. 11, 1967; Amdt. 6545, 69 FR 44879, July 27, 2004] 65.87 Powerplant rating; additional privileges. top (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, a certificated mechanic with a powerplant rating may approve and return to service a powerplant or propeller or any related part or appliance, after he has performed, supervised, or inspected its maintenance or alteration (excluding major repairs and major alterations). In addition, he may perform the 100-hour inspection required by part 91 of this chapter on a powerplant or propeller, or any part thereof, and approve and return it to service. (b) A certificated mechanic with a powerplant rating can approve and return to service a powerplant or propeller, or any related part or appliance, of an aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category after performing and inspecting a major repair or major alteration for products that are not produced under an FAA approval, provided the work was performed in accordance with instructions developed by the manufacturer or a person acceptable to the FAA. [Doc. No. 1179, 27 FR 7973, Aug. 10, 1962, as amended by Amdt. 6510, 32 FR 5770, Apr. 11, 1967; Amdt. 6545, 69 FR 44879, July 27, 2004] John Hart KFIV, NSI Subaru Wilburton, OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Bob, In the interest of keeping the facts straight, Anyone can do the maintenance on an amateur built experimantal aircraft and can do the annual condition inspection as well --if he can find an A&P who will sign certifying that "this aircraft has been inspected on [date] according to....". You and I are entitled to sign and affix our certificate numbers as the responsible party after an inspection. In the approved wording, it doesn't specify who did the inspection. All that is required is that an owner find an A&P that is wiling to endorse the log book. This procedure is done all the time and I expect by most list non builder owners. Regarding the Rogue comment. I think it is a fair assessment of the FAAs incentive in beginning the ELSA program. There were numerous two place non conforming "Ultralight trainers" that were being flown without any licensing whatsoever. Many heavy non regulation conforming "ultralights" as well. Enough in fact that the FAA considered it a major issue. These were the rogue aircraft referred to in the original post. Your particular situation is piggy backed onto the original intent of the ELSA program and correct me if I am wrong, but your airplane was certified in another country and was kindly treated by the FAA as a previously uncertified aircraft. If the FAA had just decided to look the other way regarding the "rogue" aircraft, your licensing of your imported aircraft would have to have taken another route. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Covering Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:58 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > > > > The FAA created the Light Sport category of the Experimental type for > Airworthiness Certification in 2005 and set an end date of January 31st > 2008 > for the conversion of non-registered aircraft to the new type. This > "amnesty" period applied to registration for an "N" number only, I > registered my Kitfox II in late 2007 and applied for and was granted and > ELSA Airworthiness Certificate in late 2008, after the closure of the > amnesty period, with no problems. Any aircraft previously issued any > Airworthiness type certificate was not eligible to convert to ELSA, only > unregistered uncertificated aircraft but I certainly wouldn't call my or > anyone else's aircraft that took advantage of this program "rogue". > > An ELSA aircraft is type certificated as "Experimental" with the same > restrictions and privileges as EAB aircraft (Experimental - Amateur > Built). > True there are additional restrictions on weight, adjustable props, > landing > gear, and a few other things (see > http://www.pilotfriend.com/experimental/spt_cat.htm for a complete list) > but > there is the added plus of being able to be the maintainer and inspector > of > your own aircraft even if you are not the builder, which for me was a > major > factor, and has absolutely nothing to do with the amnesty conversion > period > at the beginning of the category creation. > > No offense intended in correcting the statements in your post Jack, just > trying to keep the facts straight here to avoid further confusion. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger > Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jridgway > Sent: 05 August 2009 12:01 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > > > > I just chatted with the A/P who does a lot of work with our EAA chapter. > He > told me we have about half a dozen fixed wing aircraft in the local area > that are ELSA. These aircraft are home built but for numerous reasons were > never were licensed EXPERIMENTAL and were just being flown as VERY HEAVY > ULTRALIGHTS....lol..The FAA gave a chance for all these ROGUE aircraft to > get legal by licensing them under the ELSA. This was about 2 years ago and > terminated Dec 2008. If you did not take advantage of this AMNESTY you are > really *^^)(& if you ever need to get legal now on a plane that was not > registered by the original builder. > Jack > PS..Kind of interesting..If you purchased a EXPERIMENTAL aircraft (and > were > not the builder) you need a A/P to do the annual. If you purchased the > same > plane (and was unlicensed) under the ELSA amnesty anybody can go to a 2 > day > course and get a REPAIRMANS CERTIFICATE and do the annuals and the same > aircraft.. > PS..To be honest...the ELSA does have some restrictions that a fully > registered EXPERIMENTAL does not have. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256105#256105 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:05 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Hi Lowell, Thanks for adding additional clarification to these points. As was discussed before on this list the only requirement for an annual inspection on Experimental Amateur-Built is that there be a signature and valid "inspection rated" license number in the logbook certifying that the aircraft is in "fit condition for safe operation" - this sign-off can be done by the builder if he/she has applied for the proper license, or a licensed A&P. It cannot however be signed off by an owner who did not build the plane. Of course a "friend" A&P can sign off on a non-licensed owner's word that the aircraft is safe, but most (my opinion) would not risk doing that for a stranger, so we are talking a gray area here. Although people on this list I'm sure are not short of licensed "friends" I am only saying that is not the intent of the rules. The owner of an ELSA aircraft, by contrast, can take a course and get a license and legally sign off on his/her own inspections, even if he has no friends! My UK imported Kitfox slipped in on the ELSA amnesty period yes that's true, I was lucky! It never had an ICAO C of A, the CAA does not issue a Certificate of Airworthiness to any aircraft other than Standard Type (STC) spam-cans. I had to jump through hoops and pay lots of $$ to prove to the FAA that the plane never had an Airworthiness Certificate (essential for applying for an ELSA) and as you say mine was a unique case, but there was no "kindness" from the FAA during the process believe me ;-) Owners of aircraft that did legally take advantage of the amnesty program for ELSA had non-registered aircraft that were being flown legally under the old set of rules. They were not "rogue". An aircraft being flown now without proper registration or certification would be rogue, and illegal under the new rules. Hope this clarifies things - good discussion! Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: 05 August 2009 11:03 am Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Bob, In the interest of keeping the facts straight, Anyone can do the maintenance on an amateur built experimantal aircraft and can do the annual condition inspection as well --if he can find an A&P who will sign certifying that "this aircraft has been inspected on [date] according to....". You and I are entitled to sign and affix our certificate numbers as the responsible party after an inspection. In the approved wording, it doesn't specify who did the inspection. All that is required is that an owner find an A&P that is wiling to endorse the log book. This procedure is done all the time and I expect by most list non builder owners. Regarding the Rogue comment. I think it is a fair assessment of the FAAs incentive in beginning the ELSA program. There were numerous two place non conforming "Ultralight trainers" that were being flown without any licensing whatsoever. Many heavy non regulation conforming "ultralights" as well. Enough in fact that the FAA considered it a major issue. These were the rogue aircraft referred to in the original post. Your particular situation is piggy backed onto the original intent of the ELSA program and correct me if I am wrong, but your airplane was certified in another country and was kindly treated by the FAA as a previously uncertified aircraft. If the FAA had just decided to look the other way regarding the "rogue" aircraft, your licensing of your imported aircraft would have to have taken another route. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Covering Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:58 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > > > > The FAA created the Light Sport category of the Experimental type for > Airworthiness Certification in 2005 and set an end date of January 31st > 2008 > for the conversion of non-registered aircraft to the new type. This > "amnesty" period applied to registration for an "N" number only, I > registered my Kitfox II in late 2007 and applied for and was granted and > ELSA Airworthiness Certificate in late 2008, after the closure of the > amnesty period, with no problems. Any aircraft previously issued any > Airworthiness type certificate was not eligible to convert to ELSA, only > unregistered uncertificated aircraft but I certainly wouldn't call my or > anyone else's aircraft that took advantage of this program "rogue". > > An ELSA aircraft is type certificated as "Experimental" with the same > restrictions and privileges as EAB aircraft (Experimental - Amateur > Built). > True there are additional restrictions on weight, adjustable props, > landing > gear, and a few other things (see > http://www.pilotfriend.com/experimental/spt_cat.htm for a complete list) > but > there is the added plus of being able to be the maintainer and inspector > of > your own aircraft even if you are not the builder, which for me was a > major > factor, and has absolutely nothing to do with the amnesty conversion > period > at the beginning of the category creation. > > No offense intended in correcting the statements in your post Jack, just > trying to keep the facts straight here to avoid further confusion. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger > Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jridgway > Sent: 05 August 2009 12:01 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > > > > I just chatted with the A/P who does a lot of work with our EAA chapter. > He > told me we have about half a dozen fixed wing aircraft in the local area > that are ELSA. These aircraft are home built but for numerous reasons were > never were licensed EXPERIMENTAL and were just being flown as VERY HEAVY > ULTRALIGHTS....lol..The FAA gave a chance for all these ROGUE aircraft to > get legal by licensing them under the ELSA. This was about 2 years ago and > terminated Dec 2008. If you did not take advantage of this AMNESTY you are > really *^^)(& if you ever need to get legal now on a plane that was not > registered by the original builder. > Jack > PS..Kind of interesting..If you purchased a EXPERIMENTAL aircraft (and > were > not the builder) you need a A/P to do the annual. If you purchased the > same > plane (and was unlicensed) under the ELSA amnesty anybody can go to a 2 > day > course and get a REPAIRMANS CERTIFICATE and do the annuals and the same > aircraft.. > PS..To be honest...the ELSA does have some restrictions that a fully > registered EXPERIMENTAL does not have. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256105#256105 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:35 AM PST US From: Clint Bazzill Subject: Kitfox-List: Diff pressure gauge Does anyone in the SF Bay area have a diff pressue gauge I can borrow until I get my new one. Thanks Clint (928) 499-8344 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:50 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Note the word "supervised" is never used with regards to the annual or 100-hour inspections in either section, only the words "performed and inspected". A "friend" who signs off an inspection he did not perform could be liable for any accidents due to anything that should have been caught during a legal inspection and could/should(my opinion) lose his license. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Hart Sent: 05 August 2009 11:39 am Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 65.85 Airframe rating; additional privileges. top (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, a certificated mechanic with an airframe rating may approve and return to service an airframe, or any related part or appliance, after he has performed, supervised, or inspected its maintenance or alteration (excluding major repairs and major alterations). In addition, he may perform the 100-hour inspection required by part 91 of this chapter on an airframe, or any related part or appliance, and approve and return it to service. (b) A certificated mechanic with an airframe rating can approve and return to service an airframe, or any related part or appliance, of an aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category after performing and inspecting a major repair or major alteration for products that are not produced under an FAA approval provided the work was performed in accordance with instructions developed by the manufacturer or a person acceptable to the FAA. [Doc. No. 1179, 27 FR 7973, Aug. 10, 1962, as amended by Amdt. 6510, 32 FR 5770, Apr. 11, 1967; Amdt. 6545, 69 FR 44879, July 27, 2004] 65.87 Powerplant rating; additional privileges. top (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, a certificated mechanic with a powerplant rating may approve and return to service a powerplant or propeller or any related part or appliance, after he has performed, supervised, or inspected its maintenance or alteration (excluding major repairs and major alterations). In addition, he may perform the 100-hour inspection required by part 91 of this chapter on a powerplant or propeller, or any part thereof, and approve and return it to service. (b) A certificated mechanic with a powerplant rating can approve and return to service a powerplant or propeller, or any related part or appliance, of an aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category after performing and inspecting a major repair or major alteration for products that are not produced under an FAA approval, provided the work was performed in accordance with instructions developed by the manufacturer or a person acceptable to the FAA. [Doc. No. 1179, 27 FR 7973, Aug. 10, 1962, as amended by Amdt. 6510, 32 FR 5770, Apr. 11, 1967; Amdt. 6545, 69 FR 44879, July 27, 2004] John Hart KFIV, NSI Subaru Wilburton, OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Bob, In the interest of keeping the facts straight, Anyone can do the maintenance on an amateur built experimantal aircraft and can do the annual condition inspection as well --if he can find an A&P who will sign certifying that "this aircraft has been inspected on [date] according to....". You and I are entitled to sign and affix our certificate numbers as the responsible party after an inspection. In the approved wording, it doesn't specify who did the inspection. All that is required is that an owner find an A&P that is wiling to endorse the log book. This procedure is done all the time and I expect by most list non builder owners. Regarding the Rogue comment. I think it is a fair assessment of the FAAs incentive in beginning the ELSA program. There were numerous two place non conforming "Ultralight trainers" that were being flown without any licensing whatsoever. Many heavy non regulation conforming "ultralights" as well. Enough in fact that the FAA considered it a major issue. These were the rogue aircraft referred to in the original post. Your particular situation is piggy backed onto the original intent of the ELSA program and correct me if I am wrong, but your airplane was certified in another country and was kindly treated by the FAA as a previously uncertified aircraft. If the FAA had just decided to look the other way regarding the "rogue" aircraft, your licensing of your imported aircraft would have to have taken another route. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Covering Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:58 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > > > > The FAA created the Light Sport category of the Experimental type for > Airworthiness Certification in 2005 and set an end date of January 31st > 2008 > for the conversion of non-registered aircraft to the new type. This > "amnesty" period applied to registration for an "N" number only, I > registered my Kitfox II in late 2007 and applied for and was granted and > ELSA Airworthiness Certificate in late 2008, after the closure of the > amnesty period, with no problems. Any aircraft previously issued any > Airworthiness type certificate was not eligible to convert to ELSA, only > unregistered uncertificated aircraft but I certainly wouldn't call my or > anyone else's aircraft that took advantage of this program "rogue". > > An ELSA aircraft is type certificated as "Experimental" with the same > restrictions and privileges as EAB aircraft (Experimental - Amateur > Built). > True there are additional restrictions on weight, adjustable props, > landing > gear, and a few other things (see > http://www.pilotfriend.com/experimental/spt_cat.htm for a complete list) > but > there is the added plus of being able to be the maintainer and inspector > of > your own aircraft even if you are not the builder, which for me was a > major > factor, and has absolutely nothing to do with the amnesty conversion > period > at the beginning of the category creation. > > No offense intended in correcting the statements in your post Jack, just > trying to keep the facts straight here to avoid further confusion. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger > Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jridgway > Sent: 05 August 2009 12:01 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > > > > I just chatted with the A/P who does a lot of work with our EAA chapter. > He > told me we have about half a dozen fixed wing aircraft in the local area > that are ELSA. These aircraft are home built but for numerous reasons were > never were licensed EXPERIMENTAL and were just being flown as VERY HEAVY > ULTRALIGHTS....lol..The FAA gave a chance for all these ROGUE aircraft to > get legal by licensing them under the ELSA. This was about 2 years ago and > terminated Dec 2008. If you did not take advantage of this AMNESTY you are > really *^^)(& if you ever need to get legal now on a plane that was not > registered by the original builder. > Jack > PS..Kind of interesting..If you purchased a EXPERIMENTAL aircraft (and > were > not the builder) you need a A/P to do the annual. If you purchased the > same > plane (and was unlicensed) under the ELSA amnesty anybody can go to a 2 > day > course and get a REPAIRMANS CERTIFICATE and do the annuals and the same > aircraft.. > PS..To be honest...the ELSA does have some restrictions that a fully > registered EXPERIMENTAL does not have. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256105#256105 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:21 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IFR KItfox From: "JetPilot" Small single engine airplanes are great fun and nice to go somewhere when you do not have to get somewhere at a certain time... But trying to use a small single engine airplane to go somewhere you have to be is a great way to die. I would not even recommend a Cessna 172 for what you are talking about. This F-16 pilot obviously does not understand the limitations and differences of flying a single engine light plane in weather. With the pressure to get to work, or get home, people make really stupid choices and end up crashing. 100 miles is not that far, he would be much better off just driving it in his car. Given the amount of time to CHECK THE WEATHER, Fuel, Untie, Preflight, get to where you are going, do an instrument approach, and tie the airplane down, it would actually take LONGER than driving a car. I would have expected a little better judgment from an F-16 Driver. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256180#256180 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:49 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IFR KItfox From: "JetPilot" Michel wrote: > Hello guys, > But, because he must fly all days, also in the winter, be must do it IFR. He has all the licenses he needs for it but ... > This guy obviously did not consider Icing flying IFR in winter. Icing conditions will make a small single engine plane crash very quickly. The pressure to get home or get to work will assure that this guy will push his luck and fly in conditions that he should not. This sounds like one of the worst plans I have heard in a long time. mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256181#256181 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:40 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox From: "jridgway" If the aircraft weighs 600 lbs/2place and is flying with out FAA registration..then I (and the FAA) called that a rouge aircraft ( whether it is a 2 place ultralight or a kitfox or ???)..just my 2 cents... Jack Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256191#256191 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:39 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox The FAA called them Red(rouge) aircraft!!?? Exactly where did you get this fact Jack? A search of the FAA site, and in fact the entire Internet (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="rogue+aircraft"&aq=f&oq=&aqi=) for "rogue aircraft" reveals only the kind of aircraft that people want to shoot down, not Kitfoxes and ultralights. Although I'm sure some folks might want to... Sorry list, couldn't resist, and I hope you have a sense of humor there Jack, just having a bit o' fun with this - it's a slow day. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jridgway Sent: 05 August 2009 1:54 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox If the aircraft weighs 600 lbs/2place and is flying with out FAA registration..then I (and the FAA) called that a rouge aircraft ( whether it is a 2 place ultralight or a kitfox or ???)..just my 2 cents... Jack Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256191#256191 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:30 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IFR KItfox > From: JetPilot [orcabonita@hotmail.com] > This guy obviously did not consider Icing flying IFR in winter. I know, Mike, I have a friend who went flying in icing fog. He reached only 200 ft AGL before he went down on the top of the trees. Broke the wings but could walk away from it. The snow makes an excellent cushion. Anyway, this Danish guy who asks about Kitfox is a F-16 pilot and I don't feel like teaching him aviation meteorology. Incidentally, he writes now, wondering if he has a chance to buy a IFR instrumented Kitfox in the US. If anyone knows one for sale. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Do not archive
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:40 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: IFR KItfox > From: Weiss Richard [MDKitfox@aol.com] > Congratulations on getting your medical back. Having once been in the > same mode, I know how happy you must be. Enjoy the flying! Tanks, Rick. Getting back my driving license was just as good! You see, I need to get to the airfield before I can fly! :-) Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Do not archive
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:39 PM PST US From: "rosane beaule" Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake lines filling I'M sure someone out there has a trick to fill those matco brake lines with brake fluid. I tried pumping the oil from the bleeder on the caliper with my hand oiler pump but din't make it. What do you guys use to do that? Is there an existing tool or do we have to make one? Jack Kitfox 4-Rotax 912 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:09 PM PST US From: "rosane beaule" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re : Trailer available I have a heavy duty trailer for sale. Located in Canada but have a friend who is trucking your way every week. Jack ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:09 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotec TBI success story From: "akflyer" Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line. When I went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH WOT. Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH. I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed 800. Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid. 120 HP and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what! -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry aka SNAKE Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1450 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256239#256239 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:41 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake lines filling From: "akflyer" That is how I fill them. Just did it last week on a new install. Make sure the bleeder is not plugged off with grime in the end. AHHHH one other thing to check. Did you by chance rebuild your masters? If so, the little rubber pad you have to install and sand down did not get sanded down enough and it wont let the fluid flow. I did this TWICE before I figured it out. They give you a figure to sand it down to and I was just a couple thousandths over that so I figured what the heck, close enough. Wrong. Gotta be on the money with that one. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry aka SNAKE Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1450 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256241#256241 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:19 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IFR KItfox From: "akflyer" congrats on the medical! you are a better man than I. If I lost my medical, I would still have kept on flying. The only way they can keep me out of the air is to lock me up! Does not mean I dont want to be legal, just means I love flying more than the laws. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry aka SNAKE Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1450 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256249#256249 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:01 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brake lines filling Did you have the cylinder bleeder screw out? GLENN HORNE Kitfox Model II ----- Original Message ----- From: rosane beaule To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake lines filling I'M sure someone out there has a trick to fill those matco brake lines with brake fluid. I tried pumping the oil from the bleeder on the caliper with my hand oiler pump but din't make it. What do you guys use to do that? Is there an existing tool or do we have to make one? Jack Kitfox 4-Rotax 912 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:24 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotec TBI success story It seems low, Leonard, but today I was climbing at 800 fpm at 8200' altitude, and it kept right on climbing, for as long as I held the stick back, so it must be ok. It just doesn't seem right.... I can't wait to make a trip with it and see how much fuel I burn in a practical test. I'm getting bored "runnin' up and down the same ol' strip, gotta find a new place where the kids are hip" ....geez, did I REALLY say that? Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 723.8 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:54 PM, akflyer wrote: > > Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line. When I > went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH > WOT. Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH. > > I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY > less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed > 800. Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid. 120 HP > and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what! > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1450 > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256239#256239 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:48 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brake lines filling When pumping from the wheel cylinder, make sure that the bleeder screw is on the BOTTOM. To any car mechanic, it looks backwards, but it is the only way to bleed from the wheel cylinder back to the master cylinder(s). When I first got my plan, I thought some dummy got the bleeder screws on the wrong end of things, so when all else fails "read the directions" and sure enough the directions were right...bleeders go on the bottom, so the air is forced out the lines and back to the master cyls. The air must/will travel upwards, so if there's a pocket where the air can stop off "for a quickie" it will, and you'll have a spongy pedal. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 723.8 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:41 PM, rosane beaule wrote: > I'M sure someone out there has a trick to fill those matco brake > lines with brake fluid. I tried pumping the oil from the bleeder on > the caliper with my hand oiler pump but din't make it. What do you > guys use to do that? Is there an existing tool or do we have to > make one? > Jack > Kitfox 4-Rotax 912 > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:43 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox From: "jridgway" Bob..you got me...I will get you next time...lol... happy flying..jack Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256282#256282 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:53 PM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Same would go for a 255 lb single seater. It was always illeagle to fly un registered and over weight=2C both before and after sport pilot and LSA ca me about. Take care=2C Jim Chuk Avids=2C Kitfox=2C Mn > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox > From: jridgway@academicplanet.com > Date: Wed=2C 5 Aug 2009 10:54:10 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > m> > > If the aircraft weighs 600 lbs/2place and is flying with out FAA registra tion..then I (and the FAA) called that a rouge aircraft ( whether it is a 2 place ultralight or a kitfox or ???)..just my 2 cents... > Jack > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256191#256191 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:41 PM PST US From: "Maurice" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tool for positioning a bolt or washer plus nut I have not been able to successfully google where I can obtain a tool for positioning a bolt, or washer plus nut, in a difficult to reach place. I presently need it to mount my rudder. One of our brethren has an Esco Hingemate Australia AN3 + AN4. I have been unable to locate it or anything similar. Any advice or help would be deeply appreciated. Maurice 7A 912S 72" IVO GA ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:38 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Re : Trailer available From: "cschmokel" Sent you an email, thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256300#256300 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:25 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tool for positioning a bolt or washer plus nut Maurice, This might seem a bit primitive, but when I was helping the guy across the street build his Lancair, we used a lot of instant glue - cyanoacrylate. For the insertion of the rudder bolts, I made some aluminum strips - .040 X 1/2 inch - and glued the head of the bolt to the end of a strip and bent it to the shape I needed. I suspect you could glue the washer to the nut and the combination to an aluminum strip and get a turn or two using a wrench on the bolt. Also Harbor Freight has very larve hemostat like tools that I have used on my Kitfox build. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Covering Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice" Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Tool for positioning a bolt or washer plus nut I have not been able to successfully google where I can obtain a tool for positioning a bolt, or washer plus nut, in a difficult to reach place. I presently need it to mount my rudder. One of our brethren has an Esco Hingemate Australia AN3 + AN4. I have been unable to locate it or anything similar. Any advice or help would be deeply appreciated. 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