Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Re: dry clutch (wingman)
2. 04:54 AM - Re: IFR KItfox (FlyboyTR)
3. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: dry clutch (Shane Sather)
4. 09:07 AM - Re: dry clutch (wingman)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: dry clutch (fox5flyer)
6. 11:23 AM - ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some (Lynn Matteson)
7. 03:13 PM - Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some (Tom Jones)
8. 04:31 PM - Re: best power, best economy (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
9. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some (Lynn Matteson)
10. 05:29 PM - Re: best power, best economy (Tom Jones)
11. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some (fox5flyer)
12. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: dry clutch (Clint Bazzill)
13. 09:49 PM - Re: Re: dry clutch (Shane Sather)
Message 1
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The slipper clutch makes a squeeky noise when you stop the engine.
They are all like that.
--------
Kitfox IV 1200
Rotax 912 ULS
on full lotus floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257758#257758
Message 2
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Even though my thoughts match many posts on this topic...I thought I would chime
in. Our Vixen is minimal IFR. About the longest we have spent in the soup
was 30 minutes. No storms...no fronts...nothing that could go bump in the scud.
The autopilot "certainly" helps with the workload. However...This is not
my idea of FUN flying! It's nice to know the plane is capable of IFR flight...but
I would never consider taking off knowing my flight was going to be IFR!
It's nice to have the option...just in case...but I had much rather enjoy a fun
flight.
Travis :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257763#257763
Message 3
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Wingman
When I first started to hear the noise I was idling down as I was pulling
into the dock, so the engine was still running at the time. After I shut
down and turned the prop by hand I could still hear the noise. After the
engine cooled down the sounds were normal. Does your do this too?
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingman" <wingman5507@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 2:13 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
>
> The slipper clutch makes a squeeky noise when you stop the engine.
> They are all like that.
>
> --------
> Kitfox IV 1200
> Rotax 912 ULS
> on full lotus floats
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257758#257758
>
>
>
Message 4
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I think it supposed to squeek only when you stop the engine.
Mine is quiet when i turn the prop by hand.
If your carbs are unbalanced it could possibly squeek a little at low rpm but thats
just a guess.
--------
Kitfox IV 1200
Rotax 912 ULS
on full lotus floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257801#257801
Message 5
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Shane, if you have the capability, tools, and time, you might dismantle it
to do some exploratory surgery. If there is a problem it should be evident
and it's just a matter of making a repair. If you don't find anything wrong
and you're satisfied that all is well, then your future flights may be with
less worry.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 430+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
> <shanesather@NETKASTER.CA>
>
> Wingman
>
> When I first started to hear the noise I was idling down as I was pulling
> into the dock, so the engine was still running at the time. After I shut
> down and turned the prop by hand I could still hear the noise. After the
> engine cooled down the sounds were normal. Does your do this too?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wingman" <wingman5507@gmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 2:13 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
>
>
>>
>> The slipper clutch makes a squeeky noise when you stop the engine.
>> They are all like that.
>>
>> --------
>> Kitfox IV 1200
>> Rotax 912 ULS
>> on full lotus floats
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257758#257758
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some |
Over the last week, I've had some fun making some tests with my newly-
installed Rotec TBI-40 mixture-adjustable, carburetor-replacement
device on my Jabiru engine. I don't know whether two of these units
will work on a Rotax, so many of you might want to hit the delete key
right now.
For the most part, I was flying it LOP (lean-of-peak), but yesterday
I made a flight and decided that I would try ROP (rich-of-peak). In
flying LOP, the articles I've read say to keep the power requirements
low, and LOP will work and you won't burn the engine down. I was
amazed that this LOP thing even works at all, let alone work as well
as I've found that it seems too....I guess I'm still a bit of a
skeptic. After all, if going lean is a bad thing, how can going even
leaner be a good thing? I won't argue whether or not it's a good or
bad thing, and there are those of you that may not be able to do any
leaning at all, as I was until I got this unit.
Three days ago, I made two trips totaling 475 miles, using LOP
settings, and yesterday I made a 310-mile trip, using ROP settings. I
had flown the 475 miles leaning out the engine until peak EGT, then
leaning more until the engine was obviously low on power, and I
contentedly flew at this setting, watching the scenery crawl by.
Yesterday I decided to actually GO somewhere, and never mind the fuel
saving, I just wanted to get there, so I decided to try ROP.
Here are the average numbers from those trips:
LOP: 27.77 miles per gallon; 3.3 gallons per hour; 93.14
miles per hour
ROP: 23.66 miles per gallon; 4.37 gallons per hour; 103.3 miles per
hour
Altitudes on all of these flight were anywhere from 3000' MSL (with a
base of 1000') to 10,000 MSL, with throttle settings from 2600 rpm to
3050. Fuel flow as seen on the gauge, ranged from 2.5 gallons per
hour to 5.0 not including takeoffs, but including climbs.
So you can see from these figures (admittedly a low number of
samples) that it does pay to tweak the mixture, and even if flown
LOP, the speed is not too bad.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some |
Lynn, being that I am a two stroke guy the word lean gets my attention right away.
I guess it is different for 4 stroke engines.
I learned to fly in a Cherokee 180. The instructions for best economy in the POH
for that airplane were. Lean until max EGT is reached then continue to lean
until EGT drops a minimum of 25 degrees. It also said do not lean the engine
when running above 75% power.
For best power the instructions are to lean until maximum EGT is reached then richen
until EGT increases 25 degrees.
It is interesting for me so I enjoy reading your posts on this stuff. You will
be able to write the POH for your engine with all the information you are collecting.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257868#257868
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: best power, best economy |
On Sat, August 15, 2009 3:10 pm, Tom Jones wrote:
> For best power the instructions are to lean until maximum EGT is reached then
richen
> until EGT increases 25 degrees.
How can you increase the EGT by 25 when you'e already set it to peak?
I believe best power is 100F down from peak on the rich side and best economy is
approx 25F down from peak on the rich side. Leaning from peak EGT is usually
accompanied with engine manufacturer's operating restrictions or is prohibited.
High power settings on lean side of peak EGT run the risk of overheating exhaust
valves and seats and burn damage. For that reason I would not be very comfortable
leaning from peak EGT.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
"When occasions present themselves, in which the interests of the
people are at variance with their inclinations, it is the duty of
the persons whom they have appointed to be the guardians of those
interests, to withstand the temporary delusion, in order to give
them time and opportunity for more cool and sedate reflection."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 71
"In addition to an abhorrence of democracy, and the recognition
that government posed the gravest threat to liberty, our founders
harbored a deep distrust and suspicion of Congress. This suspicion
and distrust is exemplified by the phraseology used throughout the
Constitution, particularly our Bill of Rights, containing phrases
such as Congress shall not: abridge, infringe, deny, disparage or
violate. Today's Americans think Congress has the constitutional
authority to do anything upon which they can get a majority vote.
We think whether a particular measure is a good idea or bad idea
should determine passage as opposed to whether that measure lies
within the enumerated powers granted Congress by the Constitution.
Unfortunately, for the future of our nation, Congress has
successfully exploited American constitutional ignorance or
contempt."
-- George Mason University economics professor Walter E. Williams
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some |
Tom, this is all very new to me, and so it surprises me that the
instructions for a 180 include leaning beyond the max EGT. I only
began hearing about this "black magic" about a month ago. During
recent searches on the subject, I found that it's been discussed for
five years or more. (I must have taken a really long nap!) I always
like to find new information about things that were seemingly cast in
stone, and not to be tried.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Tom Jones wrote:
>
> Lynn, being that I am a two stroke guy the word lean gets my
> attention right away. I guess it is different for 4 stroke engines.
>
> I learned to fly in a Cherokee 180. The instructions for best
> economy in the POH for that airplane were. Lean until max EGT is
> reached then continue to lean until EGT drops a minimum of 25
> degrees. It also said do not lean the engine when running above
> 75% power.
>
> For best power the instructions are to lean until maximum EGT is
> reached then richen until EGT increases 25 degrees.
>
> It is interesting for me so I enjoy reading your posts on this
> stuff. You will be able to write the POH for your engine with all
> the information you are collecting.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257868#257868
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: best power, best economy |
>
> Quote:
> For best power the instructions are to lean until maximum EGT is reached then
richen
> until EGT increases 25 degrees.
>
> How can you increase the EGT by 25 when you'e already set it to peak?
Oops, thanks paul, I should have wrote: for best power lean to max EGT then richen
until EGT decreases 25 degrees. I'll edit my post on that.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257893#257893
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some |
Lynn, I've been leaning LOP on my EA81 with Ellison TB for more than the
past 300 hours. It's actually been done for much longer than 5 years. I
spoke with a friend who flew B25s and he said it was routine operation.
Like you said, you lose a small amount of power, but the fuel savings payoff
is worth it. The caveat here is that one needs to have a good display of
the cylinder EGTs and to not do it with high manifold pressures.
Good report you gave on the topic. Thanks.
Below is the article written by John Deacon on the subject. Lengthy, but
enlightening.
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 430+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some
>
> Tom, this is all very new to me, and so it surprises me that the
> instructions for a 180 include leaning beyond the max EGT. I only began
> hearing about this "black magic" about a month ago. During recent
> searches on the subject, I found that it's been discussed for five years
> or more. (I must have taken a really long nap!) I always like to find new
> information about things that were seemingly cast in stone, and not to be
> tried.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Tom Jones wrote:
>
>>
>> Lynn, being that I am a two stroke guy the word lean gets my attention
>> right away. I guess it is different for 4 stroke engines.
>>
>> I learned to fly in a Cherokee 180. The instructions for best economy
>> in the POH for that airplane were. Lean until max EGT is reached then
>> continue to lean until EGT drops a minimum of 25 degrees. It also said
>> do not lean the engine when running above 75% power.
>>
>> For best power the instructions are to lean until maximum EGT is reached
>> then richen until EGT increases 25 degrees.
>>
>> It is interesting for me so I enjoy reading your posts on this stuff.
>> You will be able to write the POH for your engine with all the
>> information you are collecting.
>>
>> --------
>> Tom Jones
>> Classic IV
>> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
>> Ellensburg, WA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257868#257868
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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Which Honda=2C I am using HP4
Clint
From: shanesather@NETKASTER.CA
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
I am using Honda 4 stroke oil. It is the same oil I have always used
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
Sent: Friday=2C August 14=2C 2009 11:44 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
What kind of oil are you using. No Moly I hope.
Clint
> From: shanesather@NETKASTER.CA
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
> Date: Fri=2C 14 Aug 2009 17:39:07 -0600
>
CA>
>
> It is not a good sound. It is the kind of sound that makes one happy to b
e
> on the ground and not in the air while it is happening.
> Maybe a bearing or something was too tight when the slipper parts were
> installed and when the engine gets hot it is too tight.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wingman" <wingman5507@gmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday=2C August 14=2C 2009 9:45 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
>
>
> >
> > it's just the sound of the clutch
> >
> > --------
> > Kitfox IV 1200
> > Rotax 912 ULS
> > on full lotus floats
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257649#257649
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 13
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It is the same oil.
Tied the plane down today and fired it up. Warmed it up first for about
5 min or so and then started running at higher RPMs. Finished at 5200
for two minuets. Sounded fine. Then ran it around 2K for a few minents
and shut it down. Shut down was normal. I didn't get it as hot as
yesterday, never seem to be able to get the temp up high when on the
ground. So I don't know maybe I will try it again on the water
tommorrow. I am going to check that magnitic plug on the side of the
gear case above the oil filter first just to see how it looks first
though.
Shane
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
To: Kitfox list
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
Which Honda, I am using HP4
Clint
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: shanesather@NETKASTER.CA
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:09:53 -0600
I am using Honda 4 stroke oil. It is the same oil I have always used
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
To: Kitfox list
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 11:44 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
What kind of oil are you using. No Moly I hope.
Clint
> From: shanesather@NETKASTER.CA
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:39:07 -0600
>
<shanesather@NETKASTER.CA>
>
> It is not a good sound. It is the kind of sound that makes one
happy to be
> on the ground and not in the air while it is happening.
> Maybe a bearing or something was too tight when the slipper parts
were
> installed and when the engine gets hot it is too tight.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wingman" <wingman5507@gmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:45 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: dry clutch
>
>
<wingman5507@gmail.com>
> >
> > it's just the sound of the clutch
> >
> > --------
> > Kitfox IV 1200
> > Rotax 912 ULS
> > on full lotus floats
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257649#257649
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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