Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Fuel line (Clint Bazzill)
2. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Fuel line (Clint Bazzill)
3. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line (Larry Huntley)
4. 05:09 PM - Re: Microair M760 radios (Brian Leach)
5. 06:35 PM - New Brakes and a few Qs (WurlyBird)
6. 06:53 PM - Re: 582 rotax in Wyoming? (Lowell Fitt)
7. 07:55 PM - 582 Prop extension (Patrick Reilly)
8. 09:04 PM - Re: New Brakes and a few Qs (Roger Lee)
9. 09:29 PM - Re: New Brakes and a few Qs (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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Please tell me what kind of fuel you are using.
Clint
> From: asq@roadrunner.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel line
> Date: Mon=2C 17 Aug 2009 17:55:20 -0400
>
>
> MIL SPEC 6000 will do exactly what you have experienced under the right
> conditions. Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rawheels" <rawheels@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday=2C August 17=2C 2009 3:32 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel line
>
>
> >
> > I tried to go flying last week=2C but the aircraft wasn't making full p
ower.
> >
> > After having some friends help me this weekend=2C we found the problem
was a
> > small 2" piece of black rubber hose used to connect the header tank to
the
> > metal line under the seat. I had removed all of the black mil spec hose
> > (or what I thought was all of it) when I purchased the plane because I
had
> > read the problems on this forum.
> >
> > I just had my tanks filled=2C but tested the fuel for alcohol and there
> > isn't any in it. So=2C something else about the new fuel mix caused the
> > tube to swell. Scary part is that the metal line and the nipple on the
> > header tank must have been close enough to prevent it from swelling
> > completely shut=2C because after 5 minutes we looked at the hose and yo
u
> > couldn't blow through it. Had just enough of a trickle that you could r
un
> > the engine at idle/taxi all you wanted=2C and about 30 seconds of full
power
> > in the float bowls. Good result in the end=2C but just want to add anot
her
> > recommendation to get rid of ALL of the black rubber fuel hoses even if
> > they do have a MIL number on them.
> >
> > --------
> > Ryan Wheeler
> > Kitfox IV-1200
> > Indianapolis=2C IN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258244#258244
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 06:08:00
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Message 2
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Please tell me what the right conditions are so I can avoid them.
Clint
> From: asq@roadrunner.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel line
> Date: Mon=2C 17 Aug 2009 17:55:20 -0400
>
>
> MIL SPEC 6000 will do exactly what you have experienced under the right
> conditions. Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rawheels" <rawheels@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday=2C August 17=2C 2009 3:32 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel line
>
>
> >
> > I tried to go flying last week=2C but the aircraft wasn't making full p
ower.
> >
> > After having some friends help me this weekend=2C we found the problem
was a
> > small 2" piece of black rubber hose used to connect the header tank to
the
> > metal line under the seat. I had removed all of the black mil spec hose
> > (or what I thought was all of it) when I purchased the plane because I
had
> > read the problems on this forum.
> >
> > I just had my tanks filled=2C but tested the fuel for alcohol and there
> > isn't any in it. So=2C something else about the new fuel mix caused the
> > tube to swell. Scary part is that the metal line and the nipple on the
> > header tank must have been close enough to prevent it from swelling
> > completely shut=2C because after 5 minutes we looked at the hose and yo
u
> > couldn't blow through it. Had just enough of a trickle that you could r
un
> > the engine at idle/taxi all you wanted=2C and about 30 seconds of full
power
> > in the float bowls. Good result in the end=2C but just want to add anot
her
> > recommendation to get rid of ALL of the black rubber fuel hoses even if
> > they do have a MIL number on them.
> >
> > --------
> > Ryan Wheeler
> > Kitfox IV-1200
> > Indianapolis=2C IN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258244#258244
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 06:08:00
>
>
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>
>
Message 3
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Hi Clint,
I wish we knew. There were some instances years ago on this list. Don
Smythe had some info on it at that time. A friend here in W.NY landed
his Jabiru Kitfox in a field nearby from fuel stoppage. That was Mil
Spec 6000. It was swollen completely shut. He gave it to me and I passed
it on to Don. He was using some kind of car gas,but so were all the rest
of us.He couldn't remember what brand. I soaked some pieces of MS6000 in
3 separate jars of 100LL,alcohol,and auto gas. No negative effect.
I guess my answer is, I don't know what caused it. I wish I did. I run
92 OCT in my Soob Kitfox and in my PA22-160 and I ALWAYS test for
alcohol. The 3pacer has MS6000 and it bothers me. I always get my fuel
from the same place,but who knows.
Wish I could be more help. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
To: Kitfox list
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel line
Please tell me what kind of fuel you are using.
Clint
> From: asq@roadrunner.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel line
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:55:20 -0400
>
<asq@roadrunner.com>
>
> MIL SPEC 6000 will do exactly what you have experienced under the
right
> conditions. Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rawheels" <rawheels@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:32 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel line
>
>
> >
> > I tried to go flying last week, but the aircraft wasn't making
full power.
> >
> > After having some friends help me this weekend, we found the
problem was a
> > small 2" piece of black rubber hose used to connect the header
tank to the
> > metal line under the seat. I had removed all of the black mil spec
hose
> > (or what I thought was all of it) when I purchased the plane
because I had
> > read the problems on this forum.
> >
> > I just had my tanks filled, but tested the fuel for alcohol and
there
> > isn't any in it. So, something else about the new fuel mix caused
the
> > tube to swell. Scary part is that the metal line and the nipple on
the
> > header tank must have been close enough to prevent it from
swelling
> > completely shut, because after 5 minutes we looked at the hose and
you
> > couldn't blow through it. Had just enough of a trickle that you
could run
> > the engine at idle/taxi all you wanted, and about 30 seconds of
full power
> > in the float bowls. Good result in the end, but just want to add
another
> > recommendation to get rid of ALL of the black rubber fuel hoses
even if
> > they do have a MIL number on them.
> >
> > --------
> > Ryan Wheeler
> > Kitfox IV-1200
> > Indianapolis, IN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258244#258244
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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08/18/09 06:03:00
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Microair M760 radios |
Thanks for the comments guys. After a bit of arm twisting Microair have
agreed to send me a replacement radio before I send the other one back.
When a brand new radio malfunctions the very first time you turn it on I
think this is the least they can do, but anyway well done Microair, they
came to the party after all.
I agree with Kirk's comment about control towers but unfortunately in
our small country we cant go to a lot of places, or easily get fuel,
without going into Mandatory Broadcast Zones.
Brian
Message 5
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| Subject: | New Brakes and a few Qs |
First I would like to use this as a place to publicly thank Jon McBean for his
help and fast working on this one. I decided I wanted to simply replace a large
chunk of my brake system because I could not track down why one side of my
brakes did not work and I am taking my check ride in 2 weekends. After talking
to him I decided to upgrade the whole setup with new masters, a remote reservoir,
and upgraded calipers. I am happy with the decision and he was able to
hook me up with some parts in new-used condition.
So now I have some questions about brakes since I don't have any manuals on how
to install these things although it seems pretty easy to simply disassemble and
reassemble. But no harm in asking;
1. I see that all the fittings are wrapped with teflon, is there a specific "aviation
grade" type of tape I need to use or can I use what I have sitting in the
garage?
2. There is no tape on the compression end of the fittings but one of them has
also leaked, so was that side just not sealed well or should there be teflon tape
on the compression fittings as well?
3. Is there torque values to shoot for or do I just snug this stuff up real well?
4. I have noticed that due to the geometry of the master cylinders and the petals
that the master is compressed about 1/4" at it's maximum extension, there is
no way around this. will this have any impedance on the master filling up when
released?
Thanks for the info guys, and thanks again Jon.
James
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
Just about ready to take my check ride.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258583#258583
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 582 rotax in Wyoming? |
Been out of town and just got caught up with the 65 emails waiting. Yes we
did have one of the guys in our annual Idaho back country flight of six with
a Model IV and 582. That is until he opted to change out to a 912. I
always enjoyed watching him fly as he was our most experienced pilot by
far - former charter operator in Maui, Embry Riddel grad and believe it or
not, compatriot of a certain Mr. Lindburgh who had retired to Maui.
Wray was often a thousand feet below us as we climbed through the mountains.
He was exxpert at flying the ridge lifts and, in my mind more importantly,
paying attention to the five guys above him who were coaching him - keeping
him out of the dead end canyons and into the wide canyons that he could
either climb out of or turn around in. I agree with Guy that it could be
done, but fly early and be really careful.
This came into a clearer focus as we all spent some time together with him
at a wedding at a remote Nevada cattle ranch a couple of weeks ago and he
finally told the real story about the time we were returning to California
and left him behind. It was mid afternoon and he found himself in a bowl on
the eastern slope of the Sierras that he simply couldn't climb out of. He
flew circles trying to gain altitude, but he couldn't get high enough to
even escape the valley he was in. He told the rest of us up high to just go
home and he would be fine. (I can't believe we left him there.) He found a
dirt road that looked OK and put it down. As sun set over the mountains, he
discovered that the kind help of his friends, earlier, had become a real
threat to him. At our last fuel stop, we had emptied his airplane of all
his stuff - camping gear and everything else to lighten him up as much as we
could. As the evening cooled he realized that it would be a long cold night
with him in his polo shirt and khakis with only the shelter of the cockpit.
Finding he was having difficulty keeping warm, he drained most of his fuel,
took off and found that he was able to clear the ridge to the east and flew
back into Nevada to overnight and refuel.
To the post that mentioned the 500 and 300 fpm climbs, with the 912s we
routinely expected not quite twice that depending on outside air temps and
altitude.
I think it is doable, but will require some pilot skills akin to soaring as
the ridge lifts were essential for him in a lot of cases during the week and
his ability to land and think through his options and come to a sound
decision while stuck in that bowl made his trip turn out OK. It would also
be nice to have come real knowledge of the terrain to avoid the box canyons.
Then again, I suspect this experience pretty much kicked him into high gear
regarding the new engine.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 rotax in Wyoming?
>
> At 01:29 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote:
>>To The Kitfox Family...I would like to ask a question....will a rotax 582
>>in a KF2 will it perform in the out back of Wyoming OK?a gray or blue
>>head?Thanks Steve Shinabery,N554KF 582 gray head..
>
> Steve,
> Hopefully Lowell will reply. He had a friend who flew around Idaho
> a lot with a 582 equipped IV. My own experience flying around Utah and
> across the States is that you have limited climb capability. My IV's gross
> ceiling is about 10.5k'; and it takes a long time to get there. There are
> plenty of areas in Wyoming that you simply won't visit with that
> limitation. (Note that I have a manual mixture control as well.) Now
> weight factors in heavily, as in a much lighter configuration, about 900
> pounds, I can get to 12.5k' without too much trouble. (Note that these are
> density altitudes, as well. Summer in Wyoming may have a 10k' density
> altitude on the runway.)
> The rate of climb is pretty limited too. Flying at about 1000
> pounds I was unable to climb to even 9k' against a headwind flying south
> along the 15 south of Salt Lake City. I had to make some major detours
> looking for passes. Typically I flight plan for a maximum altitude of
> 7.5k'. I seldom cruise above 9.5k', it just takes too long to get there.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | 582 Prop extension |
Kitfoxers, Tried to mount my cowl today and looks like I need a 2" prop
extension to clear the cowl. I bought a FWF 582 from a guy. I think had a
mod 3, but must not have had a round cowl. Anybody have a prop extension for
sale or experience with one on a 582.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New Brakes and a few Qs |
Hi James,
If you are a helicopter pilot so was I, but not military.
This is the stuff you should be using on brake fittings for the tapered thread
side (Loctite 567, listed below). The compression side leaks should be removed,
trim the tube back about 1/4 - 3/8" and use a new compression nut. I hope they
used the right compression fitting to start with. Nothing gets put on a compression
fitting like Teflon or sealant. That's the whole idea behind the fitting
itself. It should not be the same compression fitting as you would use at
home on water lines.
You really shouldn't be using Teflon tape. It doesn't seal as well as the Loctite
and can break off and get in the brake system. I have never had a leak with
the Loctite mentioned above.
Snug the fittings up, but don't get crazy over tightening them. Only enough so
they can't unscrew or leak.
If your brakes are Matco's the 1/4" compressed master cylinder rod can absolutely
make a difference. Try the brakes if they stop and work ok then your home free,
but on many Matco master cylinders a 1/4" can make a difference. The rod
on them needs to come all the way out or the porting inside for the fluid doesn't
work correctly, but when you try them you will know right away if it is effecting
your brakes.
Loctite 567 PST Thread Sealant; 50ML
Loctite 567 PST Thread Sealant withstands temperatures to 400F with excellent solvent
resistance. Locks and seals tapered pipe threads and fittings, including
high pressure applications. Disassembles with hand tools.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258608#258608
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New Brakes and a few Qs |
My thoughts below. Assuming the brake parts to be Matco.
> 1. I see that all the fittings are wrapped with teflon, is there a
> specific "aviation grade" type of tape I need to use or can I use what I
> have sitting in the garage?
I have always used the hardware store variety on fittings - except fuel
fittings which were sealed with Fuel Lube.
> 2. There is no tape on the compression end of the fittings but one of them
> has also leaked, so was that side just not sealed well or should there be
> teflon tape on the compression fittings as well?
I think what I would do here is to order a new nut for the leaking fitting
and trim a quarter inch or so of the tube to get a fresh face on the male
fitting.
> 3. Is there torque values to shoot for or do I just snug this stuff up
> real well?
Can't help here as I have always tightened by feel.
> 4. I have noticed that due to the geometry of the master cylinders and the
> petals that the master is compressed about 1/4" at it's maximum extension,
> there is no way around this. will this have any impedance on the master
> filling up when released?
Can't say for sure about the ability of the master cylinder to fill on
release, but I did cut the end of the threaded rod off to get better
geometry with the brake pedal. The rod is a hard alloy, but I found that a
new die cut the threads fine. As I recall it is a 1/4 - 20 thread.
> Thanks for the info guys, and thanks again Jon.
>
> James
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
> Just about ready to take my check ride.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258583#258583
>
>
>
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