---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/30/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:15 AM - Re: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer (Catz631@aol.com) 2. 07:27 AM - Old Lexan wind shield material (Paul Morel) 3. 07:45 AM - Re: Old Lexan wind shield material (Larry Huntley) 4. 08:14 AM - Re: Old Lexan wind shield material (PMorel) 5. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Old Lexan wind shield material (Lowell Fitt) 6. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Old Lexan wind shield material (Larry Huntley) 7. 11:46 AM - Re: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer (Lynn Matteson) 8. 11:47 AM - Re: Old Lexan wind shield material (Lynn Matteson) 9. 04:35 PM - starter wire breaking (jerry evans) 10. 04:39 PM - Wanted a door frame for a kitfox speedster (jcpalmer) 11. 06:22 PM - Re: starter wire breaking (Tom Jones) 12. 06:43 PM - Re: starter wire breaking (Paul Franz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:56 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer I had a nice flight in my Kitfox yesterday (sans fuel flow gauge). In the afternoon as I was I was winding down from my projects I decided to have a nice Amber ale at my work bench. As I was doing so I casually looked up and saw that bad transducer sitting on the shelf in front of me. It wasn't any good anymore so curiosity got the best of me. --disasemble-disasemble ! I took out my redneck opener (5 LB sledge) and whacked it a couple of times. It didn't even crack. This is a tough mother! I grabbed a hacksaw out of the toolbox and cut the thing in half. It is made out of a solid piece of epoxy or some other kind of plastic stuff with imbedded wires and the tube and rotor. As luck would have it, I cut just above one of the rotor hinge stators so I was able to remove the rotor with a pair of needle nose pliers. I had not damaged a thing when I cut the unit in half. I took out my magnifying glass and examined the rotor. (which looks like a worm gear about 3/16 inch long) I found the problem. One side of the rotor was shiny and new the other was well worn to the point of trailing some plastic over the edge of the rotor where it was rubbing the wall of the tube the fuel goes thru. I suspect either a badly mfg rotor, bad alignment or wobbling rotor. It wasn't trash that caused the problem. This thing is so small and precision and PLASTIC ! It's pretty amazing that it worked at all. The rotor was well stuck in the tube. It wouldn't move with high air pressure from my compressor (last resort) BUT it did not impede the fuel flow to my 912. The indications on the instrument when it failed was of course 0 to 0.3 fuel flow. Maybe my next transducer will work longer. Dick Maddux Fox 4 Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:57 AM PST US From: "Paul Morel" Subject: Kitfox-List: Old Lexan wind shield material Just a note to let everyone know the problem I had with my lexan wind shield. I just finish my Speedster last month and the lexan I installed was .90 but came with the kit back in the early to mid 90's. Cutting and fitting was pretty straight forward and had no problems with the installation. Nylon cargo straps is a good way to fit the lexan and the compound curves was a big concern but it all went together nicely. About a week or two before I made my first flight, I got all kinds of crazing (sp) on the lexan where the compound curves are in each of the upper corners. I would have expected this after a few years and once the UV rays got to it, but not right away and just after peeling the backing off just months before. My advice to anyone still in the building stages that still has not installed an aged lexan sheet may want to consider getting a fresh or new sheet of lexan to avoid this. Paul Morel 912 Speedster Locust Grove, GA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:59 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Old Lexan wind shield material Paul, I think mine was Rhino polycarbonate sent in the kit in 92. Didn't fly it til 98. Relieved stress in those corners w/ a heat gun when I installed it. I also cut the corner cutouts as large as I could cut them and still be covered by the fairings. Flew it for 10 yrs 400+ hrs. Crazed some a couple of years ago and I replaced it mostly because of scratches and hazing. Did you heat the stressed area? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Morel To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Old Lexan wind shield material Just a note to let everyone know the problem I had with my lexan wind shield. I just finish my Speedster last month and the lexan I installed was .90 but came with the kit back in the early to mid 90's. Cutting and fitting was pretty straight forward and had no problems with the installation. Nylon cargo straps is a good way to fit the lexan and the compound curves was a big concern but it all went together nicely. About a week or two before I made my first flight, I got all kinds of crazing (sp) on the lexan where the compound curves are in each of the upper corners. I would have expected this after a few years and once the UV rays got to it, but not right away and just after peeling the backing off just months before. My advice to anyone still in the building stages that still has not installed an aged lexan sheet may want to consider getting a fresh or new sheet of lexan to avoid this. Paul Morel 912 Speedster Locust Grove, GA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 08/30/09 06:36:00 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:41 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Old Lexan wind shield material From: "PMorel" Larry No, I didn't heat the corners, and looking back, that is something I should have done. My kit was also purchased in 92' but not completed until 09'. 17 years is a long time for lexan, hoses, bungee cords, and other plastic items to be sitting idle. I'm not saying that these items aren't perfectly usable, but just keep that in the back of your head as you're building. Paul 912 Speedster Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260474#260474 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:38 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Old Lexan wind shield material Polycarbonate sheets come in .060, .093 and .118 thickness for our purposes. As it has been mentioned many times the higher VNE of the Speedster has to do with the thickness of the windshield material and the lower tendency to bend inward at high speeds. As I recall, the early thickness for the Speedster was the .118 (1/8"). It was very difficult to install and crazed readily. Then came the .093 for the Speedster and the long wing IV stayed at the .060. Even the .060 will craze in time. If you look at the minimum radius in the spec. sheet ( radius equals at least 100 times the thickness). That means that for the original 1/8" speedster material the minimum bend radius is a tad over 12 inches. For the .093 a bit over nine inches and the ..060 six inches. The following link is for the GE version of Polycarbonate. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:59 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Old Lexan wind shield material Sounds like good advice. A lot of materials ( like the shock cords) have a definite shelf life. Good luck with your Fox. It is a wonderful bird. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "PMorel" Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:11 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Old Lexan wind shield material > > Larry > > No, I didn't heat the corners, and looking back, that is something I > should have done. My kit was also purchased in 92' but not completed > until 09'. 17 years is a long time for lexan, hoses, bungee cords, and > other plastic items to be sitting idle. I'm not saying that these items > aren't perfectly usable, but just keep that in the back of your head as > you're building. > > Paul > 912 Speedster > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260474#260474 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:36:00 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:00 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 fuel flow gauge transducer I just hope they don't want the old unit back to hold up your warranty. Geez, Dick, you're a mean drunk! : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 744.1 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying do not archive On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:01 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > I had a nice flight in my Kitfox yesterday (sans fuel flow gauge). > In the afternoon as I was I was winding down from my projects I > decided to have a nice Amber ale at my work bench. As I was doing > so I casually looked up and saw that bad transducer sitting on the > shelf in front of me. It wasn't any good anymore so curiosity got > the best of me. --disasemble-disasemble ! > I took out my redneck opener (5 LB sledge) and whacked it a couple > of times. It didn't even crack. This is a tough mother! I grabbed a > hacksaw out of the toolbox and cut the thing in half. It is made > out of a solid piece of epoxy or some other kind of plastic stuff > with imbedded wires and the tube and rotor. As luck would have it, > I cut just above one of the rotor hinge stators so I was able to > remove the rotor with a pair of needle nose pliers. I had not > damaged a thing when I cut the unit in half. I took out my > magnifying glass and examined the rotor. (which looks like a worm > gear about 3/16 inch long) I found the problem. One side of the > rotor was shiny and new the other was well worn to the point of > trailing some plastic over the edge of the rotor where it was > rubbing the wall of the tube the fuel goes thru. I suspect either a > badly mfg rotor, bad alignment or wobbling rotor. > It wasn't trash that caused the problem. This thing is so small > and precision and PLASTIC ! It's pretty amazing that it worked at > all. The rotor was well stuck in the tube. It wouldn't move with > high air pressure from my compressor (last resort) BUT it did not > impede the fuel flow to my 912. The indications on the instrument > when it failed was of course 0 to 0.3 fuel flow. > Maybe my next transducer will work longer. > Dick Maddux > Fox 4 > Milton,Fl > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:39 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Old Lexan wind shield material Or bite the bullet and get a pre-formed windshield from LP Aeroplastics, or through John McBean. The thicker material used in the preformed units will give you peace of mind when you're headed toward a flock of seagulls. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 744.1 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying On Aug 30, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Paul Morel wrote: > Just a note to let everyone know the problem I had with my lexan > wind shield. I just finish my Speedster last month and the lexan I > installed was .90 but came with the kit back in the early to mid > 90's. Cutting and fitting was pretty straight forward and had no > problems with the installation. Nylon cargo straps is a good way > to fit the lexan and the compound curves was a big concern but it > all went together nicely. > > About a week or two before I made my first flight, I got all kinds > of crazing (sp) on the lexan where the compound curves are in each > of the upper corners. I would have expected this after a few years > and once the UV rays got to it, but not right away and just after > peeling the backing off just months before. > > My advice to anyone still in the building stages that still has not > installed an aged lexan sheet may want to consider getting a fresh > or new sheet of lexan to avoid this. > > Paul Morel > 912 Speedster > Locust Grove, GA > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:40 PM PST US From: jerry evans Subject: Kitfox-List: starter wire breaking This is the second time my starter positive wire has broke at the connectio n on the starter bolt, has anyone had this happen to them? I'm thinking of adding a zip tie around the wire and the starter to stop the vibration that -makes the wire connector to break off just before the nut that tightens it on the starter,- 582 Grey head,-any input would be great- thanks, - Jerry- Jerry Evans KitfoxII Magalia Calif. N582'er' kitfox 555 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:48 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Wanted a door frame for a kitfox speedster From: "jcpalmer" Anyone replace there doors with the bubble lexan and want to sell there old left side tube door frame? call 315-271-9735 or email jpalmer6389@twcny.rr.com Thanks John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260527#260527 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:02 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: starter wire breaking From: "Tom Jones" Jerry, is the wire the stuff that came with the original Kit? The starter wire that came with my kit was way too stiff. It was about 10 or 12 strands of thick copper. Mine broke at the same spot as yours about a week after the first flight. I replaced it with some marine wire from the boat shop. It is lots and lots of fine copper strands and very flexible. Looks about like welding lead but has a red jacket. 75 hours now and no more problems. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260551#260551 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: starter wire breaking From: "Paul Franz" On Sun, August 30, 2009 4:31 pm, jerry evans wrote: > This is the second time my starter positive wire has broke at the connection on the > starter bolt, has anyone had this happen to them? I'm thinking of adding a zip tie > around the wire and the starter to stop the vibration thatmakes the wire connector to > break off just before the nut that tightens it on the starter. That will probably do it. If you can restrain the vibrating cable at half the unrestrained length that will roughly double the natural frequency of vibration as well as restrict the amplitude. Both effects will likely extend the connector life considerably if not totally eliminate the problem. On the downside, it might just break in a different place next time. The restraint needs to be tight and the clamping stress spread out enough to prevent crushing and insulation damage. -- Paul Franz 425.440.9505 (O) 425.241.1618 (C) "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. 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