---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/05/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:49 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/04/09 (Aviateer) 2. 07:52 AM - Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution (Tom Jones) 3. 02:18 PM - Droop wing tips (diverjoe) 4. 02:50 PM - Re: Droop wing tips (yodaone) 5. 04:55 PM - Mod 3 582 Rebuild (Patrick Reilly) 6. 05:14 PM - Re: CG (kirk hull) 7. 05:19 PM - Re: Mod 3 582 Rebuild (Mnflyer) 8. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution (Karen & Gale Derosier) 9. 05:49 PM - Re: Droop wing tips (WurlyBird) 10. 06:44 PM - Re: Mod 3 582 Rebuild (Lynn Matteson) 11. 07:25 PM - Re: Mod 3 582 Rebuild (Patrick Reilly) 12. 07:53 PM - Re: Mod 3 582 Rebuild (steve eccles) 13. 10:24 PM - Kitfox Factory Fly-in () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:48 AM PST US From: Aviateer Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/04/09 Dave, I wrestled with the same indecision. Then I purchased the 1/4" and enjoy piece of mind with it. Just my two cents. Kirk Martenson Classic IV (yes it is a Speedster):-) Sent from my iPhone On Sep 5, 2009, at 1:59 AM, Kitfox-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII > version > of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-09-04&Archive=Kitfox > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 09-09-04&Archive=Kitfox > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kitfox-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 09/04/09: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:27 AM - Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane > solution (Jeffrey Dill) > 2. 01:16 PM - Re: Stabilzer struts upgrade? (Mike Chaney) > 3. 06:19 PM - Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane > solution (akflyer) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:27:39 AM PST US > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane > solution > From: "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily@comcast.net> > > > Sorry, am replying to messages from last spring which escaped my > attention. Guy > asked for a picture of my tailwheel setup and I have tried to attach > one taken > yesterday. I attached a tie-wrap from chain to spring on the right > side to show > the amount of stretch that is required to hook it up. The J-3 I flew > for my > 709 (ride with the FAA) had a significant amount of slack from > rudder horn to > tailwheel, I think I sent a picture of that last winter. The stark > difference > is what prompted me to take a closer look. I bought some chain to > loosen, but > adding a link to each side produces such slack as to risk, or > practically assure, > spring detachment. I placed an order for compression springs from > Spruce, > which will hopefully eliminate that possibility. Now, having > belatedly read > your notes, I might go back to the tension I had and consider the > sizable domain > of reasons for the sudden darting I was experiencing. > *I have read to keep tire pressure at 9 PSI, I was running about 15 > due to problems > keeping the bead sealed. Why so soft? > *The training subsequent to my wreck revealed a significant negative > transfer from > 30 years of nosewheel flying. I was moving the stick forward > immediately after > touchdown, and believe me, it was unconscious, but never never never > did > it cause me to dart or change direction at all in the J-3, > Supercruiser, or converted > 172. Those all went where I asked them to. > * I was holding the airplane off the ground until such slow speed as > to be unable > to meter the descent for soft touchdown. On the occasions where I > got close > to the proverbial "landing in a stall", I touched tailwheel first > and forced > the mains into dropping from their location, still maybe a foot from > the ground. > Add a little bit of bank to that situation and you can see how I > might get > thrown to the opposite bank in the ensuing bounce, now with less > than stall airpseed. > Having scarcely any control authority, I would have to ride it out at > the mercy of what seemed random physics. I did this in the J-3 as > well, until > I realized that touching down at stall is B.S... go for the soft > touch while you > can, and then plant the tailwheel ASAP, in that order. > * Since I had obtained the airplane used and never actually measured > the main gear > tow, I don't know if that was a factor. Now both main gear are new > from a > model 4. I lined them up as carefully as I could. I was seeking a > degree of tow > out, but wound up with less than that because of tooling limitations. > *I was taught to stay off of the brakes. I think that, with a little > practice on > a day that things were going well, I could have learned to use them > in a pinch > without making things worse. As it was, the only trick in my bag was > the go-around, > and when you are heading for the grass, that runway is short even for > a Kitfox. > > > I have not flown my model 2 since I wrecked it, but it is close to > ready and I > would like to before winter. Naturally I am apprehensive about it. > Every pilot > I flew with in remedial training told me to get rid of the Kitfox; > most said > to get a certified airplane. So, I bought a second Kitfox and will > build the Classic > 4 in due time. I figure that if you guys can do it, so can I. I have > flown > my share of challenging aircraft and, like the rest, it is just a > matter of > understanding the unique concerns and strategies to deal with them. > I will say > reservedly that I have found no eagerness among tailwheel CFIs to > actually > get into my airplane to help me figure this out. So, it will be baby > steps with > wide runways or grass strips and light winds. > > -------- > Jeff Dill > Model 2 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261385#261385 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ > 767jd_tailwheel_spring_setup_132.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:16:21 PM PST US > From: Mike Chaney > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stabilzer struts upgrade? > > Dave > - > I flew for a number of years with the older ones without any > problems but I > think the company suggested the upgrade.- I finally decided that the > 3/1 > 6ths looked pretty small and upgraded.-The newer struts are beefier > and I > feel a bit better.- > - > Mike Chaney > > --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Dave G wrote: > > > From: Dave G > Subject: Kitfox-List: Stabilzer struts upgrade? > > > HI, I am in the final steps of repairing my model IV. I notice that > my ssta > b struts, supplied with a skystar/denny crossover kit from '91 have > the sma > ller 3/16 attachements. Is this an issue worth attention, should I > upgrade > to the 1/4" ones? > - > Dave Goddard > KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp > > > =0A=0A=0A > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:19:06 PM PST US > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane > solution > From: "akflyer" > > > On a tail wheel, you have to be ready on the brakes. If she starts > to get away > from you, at that critical transition from having enough air over > the rudder > to make it effective, and the tail wheel still inches off the > ground, (or in your > case light due to the down elevator) your only option is to get on > the brakes! > I was running tight chains on mine with compression springs, but > with the > chains tight, I could not get the tail wheel to unlock and swivel > for tight > turns into parking. I had to loosen them up and it made it a little > more forgiving > on the landings. > > Landings, I always practice and perform full stall tail wheel first > on the numbers > (or before depending on the runway I am on). I fly into and out of > some very > short strips and what we will do in a pinch, is what we practice as > the norm. > Some one way strips I go into leave NO room for error. you miss > judge one > foot of altitude and your eating trees at the end or river bank at > the beginning. > On landing, the elevator controls airspeed, the power controls > decent rate > PERIOD. If you want to drag it in slow, keep the power on and ride > both elevator > and power to keep speed and altitude under control. If you are > falling > out of the sky and bouncing hard, it is because you are flaring to > high and > hold it off at to high an altitude. > > The J3, PA 12 etc. that you flew were easier on you because of the > longer moment > on the tail. There is no real foot work required to keep a 12 or J3 > or 18 heading > down the runway unless you have a nasty crosswind, but believe me, > if any > of the above start swinging on you, the ONLY way you will get them > back is > with good brakes. Been there, done that and have the Tee shirt (and > scuffed wing > tips). > > Without using brakes, how do you land short? I can consistently > drag mine in and > be stopped and turned around in under 75'. The second the mains are > on the > ground I am STANDING on the mushy stock Matco brakes. I am going to > do the pedal > mods for better braking when I take mine off floats and go back to > wheels > so I can lock them up at touch down if need be. > > Just my .02... and that wont get you a starbucks even if you kick in > another $3.00 > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1450 > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261513#261513 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:09 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution From: "Tom Jones" The left wheel on my Classic 4 was seriously toed in. I could see it without the straight edges/clalk lines on the floor. I attempted the six foot cheater on the axle method to straighten but stopped because I figured that was going to break something. I ground looped good enough to collapse that left gear early on in my tail wheel experience. I purchased a brand new left gear and figured it would fix the toe in problem. Wrong, it was toed in just like the first one. I took the axle out and bent it with a sledge hammer and a vise. The axles are soft and bend pretty easy. My wheel alignment is straight ahead now and is much easier to handle now. On the stock steering springs on the tail wheel. The builders manual says to pinch the ends with pliers so the chains can't come off. I didn't do that at first because the chains were snug. A friend saw that before the first flight and told me to pinch them closed or I would eventually have one come off. He wasn't a kitfox guy either. Here's a link to a diagram and short video about tail wheel set up. Its not a kitfox wheel but the information is good I think. http://www.akbushwheel.com/TailwheelTechnicalInfo.html I only had 300 hours of nose wheel only time when I started the tail wheel transition. I had the same problems as you Jeffrey. Practice practice practice the techniques an old instructor with an old airplane told me to use and after 75 hours now I can do the full stall landing and the plane tracks straight ahead...most of the time. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261577#261577 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:38 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Droop wing tips From: "diverjoe" looking for a set of droop wing tips for my son's kitfox iv -1200 thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261628#261628 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:48 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Droop wing tips From: "yodaone" I replaced my droop tips off a model IV and installed the Horner style tips from kitfox. Is this what you are looking for? I'm planning to sell them. -------- 1991 Kitfox IV 1050LB Rotax 912UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261633#261633 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_029_169.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_051_100.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_011_331.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:43 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 582 Rebuild From: Patrick Reilly Well it has been 21 months in the rebuild. I did weight and balance today. Here are 2 pictures of what it looked like 21 months ago and what it looks like today. Murle Williams 5" wider cabin, Lowell Fitt electric trim tab, Lowell Fitt radiator shutters, Lowell Fitt bush gear. A dorsal fin, and aluminum belly pan added. Damn thing weighs 628# empty. That is about 30 more # than I wanted. Thanks to all you Kitfoxers that advised me, sold me parts and made completion of this project possible. I will start taxie testes next week. Pat REilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:24 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: CG Looking for the cg limits on a classic 4 1200. does anyone have them handy? Also looking for info on the arm of the grove gear and if it changed from the factory gear? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:08 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod 3 582 Rebuild From: "Mnflyer" Congrats Pat a great looking plane you'll enjoy flying it. I did the dorsal same as you (thanks for the pics you sent me)and also added 2 inches to the leading edge of the vertical fin, it sure improved the planes fly handing. -------- GB MNFlyer Flying a HKS Kitfox III Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261650#261650 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution From: "Karen & Gale Derosier" Leonard, (snake) I am looking at purchasing a Kitfox Model 3 on Aerocet floats. How does this airplane perform on taxi on a grass strip. Also what engine do you have in yours? Have you heard of using a Hirth F30 100 HP? I have lots of questions about that. Thanks Gale D. New to the forum On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:16 PM, akflyer wrote: > > On a tail wheel, you have to be ready on the brakes. If she starts to get > away from you, at that critical transition from having enough air over the > rudder to make it effective, and the tail wheel still inches off the ground, > (or in your case light due to the down elevator) your only option is to get > on the brakes! I was running tight chains on mine with compression springs, > but with the chains tight, I could not get the tail wheel to unlock and > swivel for tight turns into parking. I had to loosen them up and it made it > a little more forgiving on the landings. > > Landings, I always practice and perform full stall tail wheel first on the > numbers (or before depending on the runway I am on). I fly into and out of > some very short strips and what we will do in a pinch, is what we practice > as the norm. Some one way strips I go into leave NO room for error. you > miss judge one foot of altitude and your eating trees at the end or river > bank at the beginning. On landing, the elevator controls airspeed, the > power controls decent rate PERIOD. If you want to drag it in slow, keep the > power on and ride both elevator and power to keep speed and altitude under > control. If you are falling out of the sky and bouncing hard, it is > because you are flaring to high and hold it off at to high an altitude. > > The J3, PA 12 etc. that you flew were easier on you because of the longer > moment on the tail. There is no real foot work required to keep a 12 or J3 > or 18 heading down the runway unless you have a nasty crosswind, but believe > me, if any of the above start swinging on you, the ONLY way you will get > them back is with good brakes. Been there, done that and have the Tee shirt > (and scuffed wing tips). > > Without using brakes, how do you land short? I can consistently drag mine > in and be stopped and turned around in under 75'. The second the mains are > on the ground I am STANDING on the mushy stock Matco brakes. I am going to > do the pedal mods for better braking when I take mine off floats and go back > to wheels so I can lock them up at touch down if need be. > > Just my .02... and that wont get you a starbucks even if you kick in > another $3.00 > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1450 > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261513#261513 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:30 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Droop wing tips From: "WurlyBird" I don't enjoy other people's misery, but I do feel better when I see someone else with a wing tip scraped off at the same angle as mine. Sorry to point that out. [Wink] -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop The ink is still drying on my new certificate Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261660#261660 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:56 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 582 Rebuild Nice looking job, Pat, but as far as taxiing your testes.....OUCH!....I'd be REAL careful there. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 758.3 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying do not archive On Sep 5, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > Well it has been 21 months in the rebuild. I did weight and balance > today. Here are 2 pictures of what it looked like 21 months ago and > what it looks like today. Murle Williams 5" wider cabin, Lowell > Fitt electric trim tab, Lowell Fitt radiator shutters, Lowell Fitt > bush gear. A dorsal fin, and aluminum belly pan added. Damn thing > weighs 628# empty. That is about 30 more # than I wanted. Thanks to > all you Kitfoxers that advised me, sold me parts and made > completion of this project possible. I will start taxie testes next > week. > > Pat REilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 582 Rebuild From: Patrick Reilly Lynn, Thanks. Freduian slip pointed out by my wife. do not archive. Pat On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > Nice looking job, Pat, but as far as taxiing your testes.....OUCH!....I'd > be REAL careful there. : ) > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 758.3 hrs > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying > do not archive > > > On Sep 5, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > > Well it has been 21 months in the rebuild. I did weight and balance today. >> Here are 2 pictures of what it looked like 21 months ago and what it looks >> like today. Murle Williams 5" wider cabin, Lowell Fitt electric trim tab, >> Lowell Fitt radiator shutters, Lowell Fitt bush gear. A dorsal fin, and >> aluminum belly pan added. Damn thing weighs 628# empty. That is about 30 >> more # than I wanted. Thanks to all you Kitfoxers that advised me, sold me >> parts and made completion of this project possible. I will start taxie >> testes next week. >> >> Pat REilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:56 PM PST US From: "steve eccles" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 582 Rebuild Pat looks great From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Reilly Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:53 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 582 Rebuild Well it has been 21 months in the rebuild. I did weight and balance today. Here are 2 pictures of what it looked like 21 months ago and what it looks like today. Murle Williams 5" wider cabin, Lowell Fitt electric trim tab, Lowell Fitt radiator shutters, Lowell Fitt bush gear. A dorsal fin, and aluminum belly pan added. Damn thing weighs 628# empty. That is about 30 more # than I wanted. Thanks to all you Kitfoxers that advised me, sold me parts and made completion of this project possible. I will start taxie testes next week. Pat REilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:32 PM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Factory Fly-in Greetings from the 25th Anniversary Kitfox Factory Fly-in! More than 2 dozen aircraft gathered at Homedale Municipal Airport west of Boise, Idaho this weekend to revel in all things Kitfox & Avid. Over an almost constant roar of Rotax, Jabiru, and Rotec engines, the attendees enjoyed food, fun, conversation and, of course, a lot of flying. The weather was great in Homedale although a few pilots didn't make it for fear of a weather system expected to arrive Sunday. One Kitfox from California made a forced landing about 40 NM from Homedale but there were no injuries, damage was minimal, and the aircraft was recovered by trailer later in the day. It seems safe to say that a good time was had by all. Mike G. N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster Phoenix, AZ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.