Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:26 AM - Re: Mod 3 582 Rebuild (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 05:47 AM - Re: CG (Tom Jones)
3. 05:52 AM - bubbles under the skin (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: bubbles under the skin (Lynn Matteson)
5. 12:59 PM - Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution (akflyer)
6. 01:41 PM - (Lenzotti)
7. 02:24 PM - Re: bubbles under the skin (Lynn Matteson)
8. 04:36 PM - Re: bubbles under the skin (n61kf)
9. 06:33 PM - Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some (mhubel)
10. 07:44 PM - Re: bubbles under the skin (Lowell Fitt)
11. 07:56 PM - Factory Fluy-in (Lowell Fitt)
12. 08:07 PM - Re: bubbles under the skin (Lynn Matteson)
13. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some (Lynn Matteson)
14. 08:26 PM - Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some (mhubel)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 3 582 Rebuild |
Pat,
Looks real nice !!! You will like that new gear. Of course you probably
don't remember the old one.
Dick Maddux
Milton,Fl
Message 2
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[quote="kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com"]Looking for the cg limits on a classic 4 1200.
does anyone have them handy? Also looking for info on the arm of the grove gear
and if it changed from the factory gear?
> [b]
The CG limits for the Classic 4 are 10.2 to 16 inches. The grove gear sits forward
of the factory gear. Some one with one of those will need to supply that
measurement.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261715#261715
Message 3
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| Subject: | bubbles under the skin |
You know, it's always something! Yesterday I noticed some very large and
small bubbles under the skin of my aircraft located over my right fuel tank.
Some of them were about 4 inches in diameter. These protruded about 1/2 inch
above the surface. Now my question is, "what caused that ?" The only thing I
can think of is fuel vapor passing thru the top of the tank but after 15
years ??? Anyway I stuck a pin in each one to let the air out and the bubbles
dropped flush with the rest of the skin. I quess at this point I will put a
damp rag over each "bubble" that I pricked and apply a hot iron in order to
shrink the fabric a little and possibly reactivate the glue. Any body ever
have this happen? It is only on the right tank and is spread pretty much
across the tank area. I was pretty much mentally preparing to yank these tanks
out sometime after the first of the year and install new tanks because of the
gasohol that is mandated after the first of the year but I hate to do it
sooner. In fact I don't want to do it at all. Anyway I will keep a jaundiced
eye on it (as I have the Kream in my tank) and prick and iron as necessary
(sounds bad huh Lynn )?
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
Milton,Fl
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: bubbles under the skin |
Sounds bad, alright, but how 'bout injecting some of the proper
"glue" into those pricked holes? In the model planes we would just
prick the holes and run an iron over the area, activating the
adhesive. But in our "real" planes, maybe the person who applied the
covering over the tank area didn't apply enough Poly Brush over the
area. At least that's what I recall doing to mine. I know I applied
Poly Brush over the ribs and the false ribs (yes, I made up false
ribs to go over the tanks), but have to admit that I don't recall
whether I applied it over the whole tank or not...I'll have to look
at my pictures or re-read the directions which I followed to the
letter (those that made sense, anyway..: ) ).
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 758.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote:
> You know, it's always something! Yesterday I noticed some very
> large and small bubbles under the skin of my aircraft located over
> my right fuel tank. Some of them were about 4 inches in diameter.
> These protruded about 1/2 inch above the surface. Now my question
> is, "what caused that ?" The only thing I can think of is fuel
> vapor passing thru the top of the tank but after 15 years ???
> Anyway I stuck a pin in each one to let the air out and the bubbles
> dropped flush with the rest of the skin. I quess at this point I
> will put a damp rag over each "bubble" that I pricked and apply a
> hot iron in order to shrink the fabric a little and possibly
> reactivate the glue. Any body ever have this happen? It is only on
> the right tank and is spread pretty much across the tank area. I
> was pretty much mentally preparing to yank these tanks out sometime
> after the first of the year and install new tanks because of the
> gasohol that is mandated after the first of the year but I hate to
> do it sooner. In fact I don't want to do it at all. Anyway I will
> keep a jaundiced eye on it (as I have the Kream in my tank) and
> prick and iron as necessary (sounds bad huh Lynn )?
>
> Dick Maddux
>
> Fox 4
>
> Milton,Fl
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution |
I have not flown the3 Aerocets so I cant tell ya on that one.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261766#261766
Message 6
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: bubbles under the skin |
Now that I look at the tank areas of my wings, I see that the fabric
IS bonded to the tanks, but only because the Poly Brush soaks through
the fabric, and where it touches the tanks, it is bonded to the
tanks. Where it is not in contact with the tank....where it lifts
away to tangent up and over each rib....it is of course not bonded
there. So I guess if I was not going to remove the tanks, I would
either inject some Poly Brush under the bubble, which might soften
the color coat, and therefore require some finish work, or MEK the
whole area down to the bare fabric, and then apply Poly Brush
liberally through the fabric, thereby bonding the fabric to the tank.
But before doing this, I'd make sure that the fabric was shrunk with
the iron.
Then do the normal spray coats of Poly Brush, Poly Spray, etc. At
least that's the way I THINK it should happen....I've been wrong
before though....once. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:27 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Sounds bad, alright, but how 'bout injecting some of the proper
> "glue" into those pricked holes? In the model planes we would just
> prick the holes and run an iron over the area, activating the
> adhesive. But in our "real" planes, maybe the person who applied
> the covering over the tank area didn't apply enough Poly Brush over
> the area. At least that's what I recall doing to mine. I know I
> applied Poly Brush over the ribs and the false ribs (yes, I made up
> false ribs to go over the tanks), but have to admit that I don't
> recall whether I applied it over the whole tank or not...I'll have
> to look at my pictures or re-read the directions which I followed
> to the letter (those that made sense, anyway..: ) ).
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 758.3 hrs
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote:
>
>> You know, it's always something! Yesterday I noticed some very
>> large and small bubbles under the skin of my aircraft located over
>> my right fuel tank. Some of them were about 4 inches in diameter.
>> These protruded about 1/2 inch above the surface. Now my question
>> is, "what caused that ?" The only thing I can think of is fuel
>> vapor passing thru the top of the tank but after 15 years ???
>> Anyway I stuck a pin in each one to let the air out and the
>> bubbles dropped flush with the rest of the skin. I quess at this
>> point I will put a damp rag over each "bubble" that I pricked and
>> apply a hot iron in order to shrink the fabric a little and
>> possibly reactivate the glue. Any body ever have this happen? It
>> is only on the right tank and is spread pretty much across the
>> tank area. I was pretty much mentally preparing to yank these
>> tanks out sometime after the first of the year and install new
>> tanks because of the gasohol that is mandated after the first of
>> the year but I hate to do it sooner. In fact I don't want to do it
>> at all. Anyway I will keep a jaundiced eye on it (as I have the
>> Kream in my tank) and prick and iron as necessary (sounds bad huh
>> Lynn )?
>>
>> Dick Maddux
>>
>> Fox 4
>>
>> Milton,Fl
>>
>> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: bubbles under the skin |
Dick,
I have the same thing going on the surface over my tanks. I have not attempted
a cure yet, but was leaning toward injecting some thinned polytac under the bubbles.
I had this same thing happen with poly-fiber over fiberglass leading edges on my
Skybolt, so I'm not so sure that fuel has anything to do with it.
--------
Keith Schneider
Red Stewart Airfield
Waynesville Ohio
KF IV 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261784#261784
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some |
I am considering using the Rotac TBI 40 for a Jabiru 3300 in a Zenith CH601XL.
I wonder what your experience was with the primer button on the regulator, did
you connect it to a cable in the cabin? If so just what sort of assembly was used?
I was also wondering how the mixture cable was supported, I don't see any method
of supporting the mixture cable in the pictures on the ROTAC web site.
--------
Mark Hubelbank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261793#261793
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: bubbles under the skin |
Lynn,
Got a question. Are the bubbles under the fabric, or between the fabric and
finish coat?
I had very small bubbles - to 1/4", most much smaller between the fabric
and finish coat, and they were all filled with fuel. I resloshed the tank,
and lived with the bubbles. I was able to reduce the larger ones by shaving
with a razor blade and touching up the aerothane with a touch up brush.
If they are larger and under the fabric, maybe one suggestion. I found once
that using one of the Polyfiber adhesives - solvent based, caused an ugly
wrinkling of the paint layer - sort of like crinkle paint. I then tried
injecting unthickened structural adhesive and moving it around under the bad
area with a roller. That worked fine and no change to the surface.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <Catz631@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: bubbles under the skin
> You know, it's always something! Yesterday I noticed some very large and
> small bubbles under the skin of my aircraft located over my right fuel
> tank.
> Some of them were about 4 inches in diameter. These protruded about 1/2
> inch
> above the surface. Now my question is, "what caused that ?" The only thing
> I
> can think of is fuel vapor passing thru the top of the tank but after 15
> years ??? Anyway I stuck a pin in each one to let the air out and the
> bubbles
> dropped flush with the rest of the skin. I quess at this point I will put
> a
> damp rag over each "bubble" that I pricked and apply a hot iron in order
> to
> shrink the fabric a little and possibly reactivate the glue. Any body ever
> have this happen? It is only on the right tank and is spread pretty much
> across the tank area. I was pretty much mentally preparing to yank these
> tanks
> out sometime after the first of the year and install new tanks because of
> the
> gasohol that is mandated after the first of the year but I hate to do it
> sooner. In fact I don't want to do it at all. Anyway I will keep a
> jaundiced
> eye on it (as I have the Kream in my tank) and prick and iron as necessary
> (sounds bad huh Lynn )?
>
> Dick Maddux
>
> Fox 4
>
> Milton,Fl
>
Message 11
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|
Like Mike Gibbs, I would also like to comment on the factory fly-in. This
is the first one I have been to since the beginning of the John and Debra
McBean era. I liked the format very much. Like Mike mentioned, there was a
lot of engine noises, as there was never a moment that someone wasn't going
up or coming back. There were several spontaneous fly-outs, low passes,
formation flights, lots of rides given to us builders and others, and a lot
of time to just sit and get acqainted and re-acquainted. The food was good
the weather was perfect and from what I heard, everyone was glad they had
come.
I hope to be flying by next year and am looking forward to being there
again.
Lowell
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: bubbles under the skin |
Lowell-
I assume you meant to address this to Dick...he's the one with the
bubbles. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
do not archive
On Sep 6, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Got a question. Are the bubbles under the fabric, or between the
> fabric and finish coat?
>
> I had very small bubbles - to 1/4", most much smaller between the
> fabric and finish coat, and they were all filled with fuel. I
> resloshed the tank, and lived with the bubbles. I was able to
> reduce the larger ones by shaving with a razor blade and touching
> up the aerothane with a touch up brush.
>
> If they are larger and under the fabric, maybe one suggestion. I
> found once that using one of the Polyfiber adhesives - solvent
> based, caused an ugly wrinkling of the paint layer - sort of like
> crinkle paint. I then tried injecting unthickened structural
> adhesive and moving it around under the bad area with a roller.
> That worked fine and no change to the surface.
>
> Lowell
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Catz631@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:50 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: bubbles under the skin
>
>
>> You know, it's always something! Yesterday I noticed some very
>> large and
>> small bubbles under the skin of my aircraft located over my right
>> fuel tank.
>> Some of them were about 4 inches in diameter. These protruded
>> about 1/2 inch
>> above the surface. Now my question is, "what caused that ?" The
>> only thing I
>> can think of is fuel vapor passing thru the top of the tank but
>> after 15
>> years ??? Anyway I stuck a pin in each one to let the air out and
>> the bubbles
>> dropped flush with the rest of the skin. I quess at this point I
>> will put a
>> damp rag over each "bubble" that I pricked and apply a hot iron in
>> order to
>> shrink the fabric a little and possibly reactivate the glue. Any
>> body ever
>> have this happen? It is only on the right tank and is spread
>> pretty much
>> across the tank area. I was pretty much mentally preparing to yank
>> these tanks
>> out sometime after the first of the year and install new tanks
>> because of the
>> gasohol that is mandated after the first of the year but I hate to
>> do it
>> sooner. In fact I don't want to do it at all. Anyway I will keep a
>> jaundiced
>> eye on it (as I have the Kream in my tank) and prick and iron as
>> necessary
>> (sounds bad huh Lynn )?
>>
>> Dick Maddux
>>
>> Fox 4
>>
>> Milton,Fl
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some |
After about three weeks of using the TBI without hooking up a control
cable to the primer button, I finally did it and it works great. Here
are some pictures of how I made a small bellcrank to actuate my
button, and of the bellcrank that I built that transferred throttle
cable motion from one side of the TBI to the other side and increase
the throw of the throttle to provide better control/easier
operation. The orange bellcrank also shows the bracket that allows
for attachment of the throttle cable and for the mixture control
cable. Regarding the primer control, I was kinda cramped for room in
the engine compartment, so the mechanical "advantage" of the leverage
is a non-advantage. The picture doesn't show the cable attachment,
but it is too close for proper operation, meaning that it takes a lot
of puling power on the cable to get the button depressed, but it does
work. I'm going to rework it to provide a better mechanical
advantage. And yes, the cable goes into the cabin right alongside the
mixture control and throttle cables.
Here is a picture of the main bellcrank/cable attachment device
that I built....the orange device (in case the captions get mixed
up). You can see the brackets that I welded on where the mixture (top
hole with slot), and throttle (bottom hole with slot) control cables
go. I built this up out of aluminum, and TIG-welded the assembly
together...steel could also be used, of course. Because I wanted to
retain the original throttle cable, and because I wanted to increase
the travel of the throttle for better control of rpm, I made the arms
long and short accordingly. I used the former "choke" cable to the
original Bing carb for the mixture control cable...painting the knob
red, of course.
I sent this picture to Rotec, per their request, so as to maybe give
Jabiru owners another way to make the connections, but apparently
they haven't posted it yet. This required bending of the end of the
throttle slide-actuating attachment, but it was an easy bend, and
this mechanism works perfectly.
And here is the primer button-actuating bellcrank. If I can do a
little "massaging" of the firewall footwell area, I'll be able to
lengthen the upper part of the bellcrank, and that will make for an
easier pull on the cable. Right now the cable only moves about a half-
inch, and requires a bit of a pull.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:30 PM, mhubel wrote:
>
> I am considering using the Rotac TBI 40 for a Jabiru 3300 in a
> Zenith CH601XL.
>
> I wonder what your experience was with the primer button on the
> regulator, did you connect it to a cable in the cabin? If so just
> what sort of assembly was used?
>
> I was also wondering how the mixture cable was supported, I don't
> see any method of supporting the mixture cable in the pictures on
> the ROTAC web site.
>
> --------
> Mark Hubelbank
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some |
Thanks, If I go in this direction, now I know what to expect. I am a bit surprised
that Rotec does not offer the option of some pre made assemblies to mount
the mixture and primer cables.
--------
Mark Hubelbank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261811#261811
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