Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:13 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09 (Lynn Matteson)
2. 04:27 AM - Re: Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed (Dave G)
3. 06:40 AM - Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution (akflyer)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution (Jeffrey Dill)
5. 07:16 AM - Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed (Perkins, Mike)
6. 07:37 AM - How to send a PM (Tom Jones)
7. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution (Shane Sather)
8. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution (Shane Sather)
9. 10:16 AM - Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution (akflyer)
10. 11:24 AM - Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed (Michel Verheughe)
11. 12:30 PM - Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed (akflyer)
12. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
13. 05:45 PM - Re: How to send a PM (Tom Jones)
14. 07:58 PM - Re: Re: How to send a PM (Ted Palamarek)
15. 08:27 PM - Re: How to send a PM (Tom Jones)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/06/09 |
Hey Pat-
I think about this nearly every time I bounce down the grass runway.
I just haven't got around to doing it yet. I'm nearing the point
where I need to replace the "kingpin" bushing in the Maule tailwheel
bracket, and that might be the time to do it. I've been dickin'
around with the other end of the aircraft, and haven't been paying
enough attention to maintenance. : ) John McBean suggested this to me
last year, but I haven't tried it yet. You might even try it with a
shorter leaf at the "short leaf" position. That would provide for a
bit less stiffness, but still prevent full deflection of the two
mains if you run over some really rough ground. Maybe if you made
this short leaf out of plain old hot-rolled flat stock and didn't
heat treat it, after a while it would provide some indication of
forces having been applied to it...sort of like a "tattle-tale"
indicator.....just a thought.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 760.3 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Lynn, I eliminated the small top leaf. The 3 leafs seemed like it
> just was too much spring. I haven't flown it yet. I start taxi
> tests this week. What do you think about using only the 2 full
> length leaves.
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> wrote:
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed |
I noticed that it appears to have separated exactly at the paint line, could
it have been scored at that point? I also notice the pilot is still wearing
his headset, which I find amusing.
----- Original Message -----
>
> two words. Manufacturing defect.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution |
you also have a 912. the extra power you have masks the fact that the floats are
not in the proper position. The fact that you have to push the nose over proves
that the step is not in the correct spot. If the floats are set up right,
you give it full up and full power at the same time, as the nose rises, you
relax to neutral stick as she falls over on its own onto step. you then make
small corrections to keep it on the sweet spot.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262036#262036
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution |
Leonard,
I gave your reply the weekend to digest. I was heartened by the first sentence
which implied that touching down with my tailwheel "inches off the ground" was
OK to a pro such as yourself. I want that to be ok, because in that regime, that
AOA, I am confident that I can control the descent rate for a soft touch.
Then later you take that away by saying you always practice tailwheel first landings.
I get it that you might be able to control descent rate with power, although
the 3 point attitude strikes me as too slow to do all the way down final,
or with the least bit of gust. I have gotten leery about what another pilot
calls a full stall anyway, usually a moot point, except in this discussion.
just because pulling more on the stick does not result in more lift does not indicate
a full stall in my mind. I think I have flown this airplane at a pitch
much higher than 3 point (at altitude with lots of power), the buffet is heavy
and the drag high. At those pitches, if you think of a typical lift curve,
the lift actually decreases with additional AOA, but, there is still some lift
available beyond max lift before the thing lets go. In that situation, you cannot
control descent rate with pitch, only power, because more AOA produces less
lift (and lots more drag). I guess now I have to attach a lift curve. Anyway,
you get to a point where parsing this out with words creates diminishing returns,
and you just have to get into the airplane and learn from experience what
works and what does not. I doubt if most pilots have thought about this as
much as I have, or in the same way. Words cannot do justice to all the considerations.
The object of the game is to take baby steps within your own boundaries
and expand the boundaries over time, which is what I thought I was attempting
to do the day I wrecked it. But I would have admitted to you then that I did
not have faith in the random physics that I felt I had to ride out, with ineffective
flight controls, as my mains bounced like basketballs. Either with power,
or a!
lower A
OA, you must go for the soft touch.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262038#262038
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lift_vs_aoa_115.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed |
Undressed blade nicks in metal props cause stress risers that can create
a crack which can progress across the blade like the one shown in the
photo. Most of us with Kitfoxes use wood or composite blades that don't
crack laterally like metal props. Gouges in metal props must be dressed
out before being flown again but often aren't. A gouge that occurs after
preflight may not be noticed until it's too late. Certain locations
along the length of a propeller are more susceptible to cracks due to
standing waves induced by engine vibration. Tachometers on some aircraft
have a red arc (below the red-line) indicating where the engine is not
to be operated for extended periods due to harmonic or resonant
vibration that may lead to structural failure of the airframe or
propeller (refer to "Aircraft Systems" by David A. Lombardo, p. 103).
- Mike Perkins
Message 6
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| Subject: | How to send a PM |
I have PMs I have tried to send sitting in the "Out Box". How do I get them to
send? Do not archive
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262050#262050
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution |
I have the 1260s also and for my use they seem to be pretty good. I am sure
that there are other floats though that will handle better in rough water
and are more slippery but again for my use and terran the full lotus seem to
work well.
Shane
912s, Lite squared.
Do not arcive
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingman" <wingman5507@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 12:05 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane
solution
>
> I have 1260's and don't recognize any of these descriptions.
> i use full throttle and at full load it takes 3 seconds of nose up before
> i push the stick forward and get on the step.
> after that i neutralize the stick and wait for 10 seconds and then i am
> airborne at around 40 mph
>
> i love the floats and would never put anything bigger on
>
> W
>
> --------
> Kitfox IV 1200
> Rotax 912 ULS
> on full lotus floats
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262004#262004
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution |
I agree with your method. That is how I do it with my set up.
Shane
912s, full lotus 1260
do not arcive
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:37 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane
solution
>
> you also have a 912. the extra power you have masks the fact that the
> floats are not in the proper position. The fact that you have to push the
> nose over proves that the step is not in the correct spot. If the floats
> are set up right, you give it full up and full power at the same time, as
> the nose rises, you relax to neutral stick as she falls over on its own
> onto step. you then make small corrections to keep it on the sweet spot.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262036#262036
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wrecked a 2, 709, rudders, gear, two plane solution |
The tail wheel hits first, because the main gear is not tall enough. To really
drag it in slow the nose has to get way up there. The only way you can get that
AOA on the wing and the most short field out of the plane is to drag it in
and touch the tail wheel first. I have drug mine in and had the tail wheel on
the ground when the mains were still a foot or so off the ground. It all depends
on what you are comfortable doing.
While charts and graphs are cool, and will simulate theoretical numbers, I live
in the real world. The operating book and brochures for my plane dont come close
in terms of climb etc.
At the end of the day, no amount of charts, or graphs will teach you how to fly
your plane. The first thing I do and tell people is to get lots of altitude,
then slow the plane down and see how slow you can fly it and be comfortable driving
it around the sky nose high and with lots of power. This will give you
an idea of how I am landing when I really need to get in short.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262080#262080
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed |
> From: Dave G [occom@ns.sympatico.ca]
> I noticed that it appears to have separated exactly at the paint line, could
> it have been scored at that point?
Yes, isn't it strange? Here is a close-up photo that shows better how it follows
the paint line.
Cheers,
Michel
Do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed |
Looks like the leading edge is beat up pretty good, and there is some discoloration
on the back side of the prop that suggests that there was a discontinuity
open to the surface for awhile. There are also some pores on the front side
of the blade that look as if it could be porosity. Kind of hard to tell from
the pic, but I would say there are some manufacturing issues, as well as some
bad dings on the leading edge that should have been dressed up with a file long
before the tip departed. Aluminum is funny especially if used in sand or rain.
The smallest nick in the blade will open right up if you are hitting lots
of rain or the spray from floats. Water, once allowed to get into the open grain
of the metal will eat it up QUICK. I know guys that keep a nice flat pretty
smooth rock in their pocket just for dressing up blade nicks on the props
of their float planes. The old times swear that if you don't keep it smooth,
the water will eat they prop in VERY short order.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262107#262107
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed |
looks like the leading edge of the prop was kind of dinged up. Paint is wo
re off also. Just my uneducated guess=2C but I think a crack started from
a nick on the leading edge. Take care=2C Jim Chuk Avids=2C Kitfox Mn.
> Date: Tue=2C 8 Sep 2009 20:21:04 +0200
> From: michel@online.no
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: (Off topic) Towing or being towed
>
> > From: Dave G [occom@ns.sympatico.ca]
> > I noticed that it appears to have separated exactly at the paint line
=2C could
> > it have been scored at that point?
>
> Yes=2C isn't it strange? Here is a close-up photo that shows better how i
t follows the paint line.
>
> Cheers=2C
> Michel
>
> Do not archive
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC
B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: How to send a PM |
Dave, I got your PM but I still don't have a clue how to send one. I write them
and hit submit and they sit in the outbox for eternity. I found one I thought
I sent on feb 4, 2009 in there today. I'll try and reply to yours, let me
know if you get it.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262154#262154
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: How to send a PM |
Tom
Forgive me for being so nave -- but what is a PM?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton, Ab
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:43 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: How to send a PM
Dave, I got your PM but I still don't have a clue how to send one. I write
them and hit submit and they sit in the outbox for eternity. I found one I
thought I sent on feb 4, 2009 in there today. I'll try and reply to yours,
let me know if you get it.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: How to send a PM |
> Forgive me for being so nave -- but what is a PM?
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Ted Palamarek
Ted,
PM is a Personal Message. If you use the matronics web site to read the list messages there is a option to send a message to just the person or persons you address it to. http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=ab1531ee468c5f957cadfc1a88256cd1
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262201#262201
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