---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/16/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:55 AM - Re: how to fly a kitfox (Av8r3400) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions.. (fox5flyer) 3. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions.. (fox5flyer) 4. 06:19 AM - Regarding the 582 weight.... (Lynn Matteson) 5. 06:45 AM - Re: how to fly a kitfox (malpass) 6. 06:51 AM - Re: Regarding the 582 weight.... (Bob Brennan) 7. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: how to fly a kitfox (ctmcdowell@comcast.net) 8. 07:49 AM - Re: how to fly a kitfox (Av8r3400) 9. 07:51 AM - Re: Regarding the 582 weight.... (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 10. 08:17 AM - Re: Regarding the 582 weight.... (Bob Brennan) 11. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: how to fly a kitfox (alnanarthur) 12. 08:38 AM - Re: Regarding the 582 weight.... (Lynn Matteson) 13. 09:23 AM - Re: Regarding the 582 weight.... (Guy Buchanan) 14. 09:37 AM - Re: how to fly a kitfox (n85ae) 15. 10:54 AM - Re: how to fly a kitfox (jdmcbean) 16. 11:14 AM - REt: Regarding the 582 weight.... (Michel Verheughe) 17. 11:15 AM - Re: Regarding the 582 weight.... (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 18. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: how to fly a kitfox (Lowell Fitt) 19. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: how to fly a kitfox (Rueb, Duane) 20. 01:17 PM - Re: Regarding the 582 weight.... (Lynn Matteson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:52 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox From: "Av8r3400" Skystar? It's in McBean's latest parts catalog... Did you check Amazon or EBay? If you can't buy one, borrow one. It is worth the read. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263278#263278 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:07 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions.. It'll go out in today's mail, Howard. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hfirm" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:09 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions.. > > > Fox5flyer wrote: >> Howard, I scanned the schematic for you and attached. Let me know if you >> can read it OK. If not, I can snail mail you a copy of it. >> Deke >> >> --- > > > I'd really appreciate it if you could mail me a copy...I can't read the > text on the scanned image. > > Mailing address is > 21605 Ahlstrom St. > Rogers MN 55374 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263228#263228 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:01 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions.. That's only about an hour drive from here. Give me a call next time you're this way. Deke do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hfirm" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:13 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions.. > > Hey Deke, I have some relatives in your neck of the woods...In Rose > City...Next time I'm there, I'll try to hook up for a visit. Also, in > Southeast MN my friend with the -4 has a 900' grass strip at his > house...If you ever want to make the trip... > Howard > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263229#263229 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:54 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... I just happened to run across this on another group: "The weight of the 582 plus liquids wound up being somewhat more than the entire Jab installation (about three pounds) with no change in W/ B. I figure I lost a few pounds and gained 24 hp." This was found on TeamKitfox (or whatever they call themselves), and it was from a guy who pulled his 582 and installed a Jab 2200. I'm not trying to sell Jabs, just trying to keep all our minds open. Maybe the ENGINE doesn't weigh as much as a Jabiru, but you can't RUN the engine without all the associated goodies. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 770.6 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~230 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying do not archive On Sep 10, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > Lynn, I will make a set of those spacers if I don't find them in > the misc. fasteners I have left over. I think you are wrong on the > Rotax 582 weight. I don't think it is anywhere near 132#. I have > seen a weight on it but it escapes my memory right now. Your right, > the 4" taller gear can't have much effect on the castor angle. I > don't think my bush gear with 21"x12"x8" inch tires and tubes > weighs much less than your landing gear. Those tires and tubes are > heavy. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Lynn Matteson > wrote: > > For some reason I thought that the 582 was pretty close to the 132 > (advertised) lbs of the Jabiru, but I could be wrong. Oh,oh, I see > another engine-weight battle looming on the horizon. : ) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:49 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox From: "malpass" I have a book I ordered from somewhere called The Kitfox Pilots Guide by Edward S. Downs. It has Skystar Aircraft Corporation on the back cover. Small book but has about 220 pages and it is real informative. A must for any Kitfoxer...................[/quote] -------- kitfox III w/ 582 greyhead Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263297#263297 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:35 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... Hey Lynn - Call me stupid but the 582 is liquid cooled but a 2-stroker, and the Jab is air-cooled and a 4-stroker, so the 582 "wet" has the weight of the coolant and no oil and the Jab wet has the weight of the engine oil and no coolant. I don't know what the liquid capacities are but doesn't that kind of balance out? In fact I would think the oil is heavier? >From an open, but somewhat confused, mind... Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:00 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... I just happened to run across this on another group: "The weight of the 582 plus liquids wound up being somewhat more than the entire Jab installation (about three pounds) with no change in W/ B. I figure I lost a few pounds and gained 24 hp." This was found on TeamKitfox (or whatever they call themselves), and it was from a guy who pulled his 582 and installed a Jab 2200. I'm not trying to sell Jabs, just trying to keep all our minds open. Maybe the ENGINE doesn't weigh as much as a Jabiru, but you can't RUN the engine without all the associated goodies. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 770.6 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~230 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying do not archive On Sep 10, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > Lynn, I will make a set of those spacers if I don't find them in > the misc. fasteners I have left over. I think you are wrong on the > Rotax 582 weight. I don't think it is anywhere near 132#. I have > seen a weight on it but it escapes my memory right now. Your right, > the 4" taller gear can't have much effect on the castor angle. I > don't think my bush gear with 21"x12"x8" inch tires and tubes > weighs much less than your landing gear. Those tires and tubes are > heavy. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Lynn Matteson > wrote: > > For some reason I thought that the 582 was pretty close to the 132 > (advertised) lbs of the Jabiru, but I could be wrong. Oh,oh, I see > another engine-weight battle looming on the horizon. : ) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:21 AM PST US From: ctmcdowell@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox Anyone know where I can get a copy of the Kitfox Pilots Guide? I looked in Amazon, E-Bay etc and can't seem to find a copy. Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "malpass" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:43:30 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox I have a book I ordered from somewhere called The Kitfox Pilots Guide by Ed ward S. Downs. It has Skystar Aircraft Corporation on the back cover. =C2 -Small book but has about 220 pages and it is real informative. =C2-A m ust for any Kitfoxer...................[/quote] -------- kitfox III w/ 582 greyhead Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263297#263297 =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:39 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox From: "Av8r3400" You're right, Eric. I should have mentioned the title (Kitfox Pilot's Guide) and author (Downs) in my post. It's on the top of page 7 in the parts catalog link, PN 9051-SS - $21.95. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263309#263309 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Wed, September 16, 2009 6:47 am, Bob Brennan wrote: > Hey Lynn - Call me stupid but the 582 is liquid cooled but a 2-stroker, and > the Jab is air-cooled and a 4-stroker, so the 582 "wet" has the weight of > the coolant and no oil No oil? What about the tankful of two stroke oil and the few extra bottles in the cockpit? > and the Jab wet has the weight of the engine oil and > no coolant. I don't know what the liquid capacities are but doesn't that > kind of balance out? In fact I would think the oil is heavier? You're sure right about the total installed engine weight comparison - bare engine weight is only part of the story. And that varies considerably according to builder's choices. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA "It is the madness of folly, to expect mercy from those who have refused to do justice; and even mercy, where conquest is the object, is only a trick of war; the cunning of the fox is as murderous as the violence of the wolf." -- Thomas Paine "If individuals be not influenced by moral principles; it is in vain to look for public virtue; it is, therefore, the duty of legislators to enforce, both by precept and example, the utility, as well as the necessity of a strict adherence to the rules of distributive justice." -- James Madison, response to Washington's first Inaugural address, 1789 If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free! -- P.J. O'Rourke "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency." -- George Washington, First Inaugural Address, April 30, 1789 Speaking Out Against Socialized Medicine -- Ronald Reagan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:05 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... > No oil? What about the tankful of two stroke oil and the few extra bottles in the cockpit? Thanks Paul, how could I forget that!! But hang on a sec... since the oil is added to the gas and consumed, unlike the recirculating oil or coolant in the engine itself, I would add that oil to the weight of the gas to be used in flight, not to the "wet" weight of the engine. After all, the weight of the fuel used is in gph, and in a 2-stroke the oil is part of the "g" in gph right? Presumably the Jab has to carry the same extra volume of gas that the 582 does in oil, right? And yes I know the gph numbers differ from 2-stroke to 4-stroke, but we're talking about the "wet" weight of an airplane, not including consumables and passengers and/or extra oil or tools or whatever one like to carry aboard. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Franz - Merlin GT Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... On Wed, September 16, 2009 6:47 am, Bob Brennan wrote: > Hey Lynn - Call me stupid but the 582 is liquid cooled but a 2-stroker, and > the Jab is air-cooled and a 4-stroker, so the 582 "wet" has the weight of > the coolant and no oil No oil? What about the tankful of two stroke oil and the few extra bottles in the cockpit? > and the Jab wet has the weight of the engine oil and > no coolant. I don't know what the liquid capacities are but doesn't that > kind of balance out? In fact I would think the oil is heavier? You're sure right about the total installed engine weight comparison - bare engine weight is only part of the story. And that varies considerably according to builder's choices. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA "It is the madness of folly, to expect mercy from those who have refused to do justice; and even mercy, where conquest is the object, is only a trick of war; the cunning of the fox is as murderous as the violence of the wolf." -- Thomas Paine "If individuals be not influenced by moral principles; it is in vain to look for public virtue; it is, therefore, the duty of legislators to enforce, both by precept and example, the utility, as well as the necessity of a strict adherence to the rules of distributive justice." -- James Madison, response to Washington's first Inaugural address, 1789 If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free! -- P.J. O'Rourke "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency." -- George Washington, First Inaugural Address, April 30, 1789 Speaking Out Against Socialized Medicine -- Ronald Reagan ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:12 AM PST US From: alnanarthur Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox I have a Kitfox for sale and it comes with the The "Kitfox Pilots Guide" by Edward S. Downs and "How to fly a Kitfox" also by Edward S. Downs. See ad below: KITFOX 5, 912ULS ENGINE - $35,000 - FOR SALE BY BUILDER - Long-wing, 230hrs TT, Warpdrive prop, EIS, ELT, VFR SportPilot ready. - Contact Allan A. Arthur, Owner - located Martinez, CA USA - Telephone: 925 932-1398 - Allan Arthur Kitfox 5, N40AA Rotax 912ULS, Warpdrive 3 blade Byron Airport, CA (C83) Hanger C8 Do Not Archive On Sep 16, 2009, at 7:06 AM, ctmcdowell@comcast.net wrote: > Anyone know where I can get a copy of the Kitfox Pilots Guide? I > looked in Amazon, E-Bay etc and can't seem to find a copy. Thanks. > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:12 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... I guess I'd have to say forget the number of strokes and concentrate on the coolant, primarily. And the Jab only carries 2.3 qts. of oil. But weight....I mean wait....if we are talking "empty weight" you don't count the oil, right? Yeah, right, show me somebody who doesn't weigh his plane with the oil in it, and I'll show you a damn fool! I can see not having any fuel aboard...I've flown a few flights w/o fuel (well, not much anyway), but the engine always has oil in it, right? Wrong! If the 2-stroker runs out of fuel, he's also out of oil, isn't he? BZZZZZZZT! Wrong again, Lynn. How about the injected 2- strokes...they HAVE to carry oil even when out of fuel, right? Lynn Matteson (also confused about the "empty weight" moniker) Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 770.6 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~230 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying On Sep 16, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Bob Brennan wrote: > > > > Hey Lynn - Call me stupid but the 582 is liquid cooled but a 2- > stroker, and > the Jab is air-cooled and a 4-stroker, so the 582 "wet" has the > weight of > the coolant and no oil and the Jab wet has the weight of the engine > oil and > no coolant. I don't know what the liquid capacities are but doesn't > that > kind of balance out? In fact I would think the oil is heavier? > >> From an open, but somewhat confused, mind... > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger > Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:00 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... > > > I just happened to run across this on another group: > > "The weight of the 582 plus liquids wound up being somewhat more than > the entire Jab installation (about three pounds) with no change in W/ > B. I figure I lost a few pounds and gained 24 hp." > > This was found on TeamKitfox (or whatever they call themselves), and > it was from a guy who pulled his 582 and installed a Jab 2200. I'm > not trying to sell Jabs, just trying to keep all our minds open. > Maybe the ENGINE doesn't weigh as much as a Jabiru, but you can't RUN > the engine without all the associated goodies. : ) > > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 770.6 hrs > Countdown to 1000 hrs~230 to go > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying > do not archive > > > On Sep 10, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > >> Lynn, I will make a set of those spacers if I don't find them in >> the misc. fasteners I have left over. I think you are wrong on the >> Rotax 582 weight. I don't think it is anywhere near 132#. I have >> seen a weight on it but it escapes my memory right now. Your right, >> the 4" taller gear can't have much effect on the castor angle. I >> don't think my bush gear with 21"x12"x8" inch tires and tubes >> weighs much less than your landing gear. Those tires and tubes are >> heavy. >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL >> >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Lynn Matteson >> wrote: >> >> For some reason I thought that the 582 was pretty close to the 132 >> (advertised) lbs of the Jabiru, but I could be wrong. Oh,oh, I see >> another engine-weight battle looming on the horizon. : ) > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:49 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... At 06:00 AM 9/16/2009, you wrote: >"The weight of the 582 plus liquids wound up being somewhat more than >the entire Jab installation (about three pounds) with no change in >W/ B. I figure I lost a few pounds and gained 24 hp." Lynn, I think Michel V. decided that the 2200 was a direct replacement for his 582. I vaguely remember he claimed little performance difference between the two. I have noticed that my 582 seems to perform way beyond its "65 horsepower" in company with Cubs and Rans and the like. I suspect the 3:1 gearbox turning a big prop has a lot to do with it, but have never bothered to work it out. I think the 912 benefits from this effect as well, as it seems to perform beyond its rated horsepower too. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:35 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox From: "n85ae" 'How to fly a Kitfox' has absolutely no relevance for flying my Series 5 with IO-240B, I think it only applies to lightweight engine planes. Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263328#263328 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:28 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: how to fly a kitfox Eric, Not sure who you emailed... We have the books in stock and have for some time. "Kitfox A Pilots Guide" $21.95 Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean Ph 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eric hendriks Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: how to fly a kitfox Hello Does anyone know if the book'"how to fly a kitfox'" is still availabel? I have mailed skystar but the say they don't have it anymore. Thank You eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263273#263273 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:29 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: REt: Regarding the 582 weight.... > From: Guy Buchanan [bnn@nethere.com] > I think Michel V. decided that the 2200 was a direct > replacement for his 582. I vaguely remember he claimed little > performance difference between the two. That is correct, Guy. I had a model 3 with a grey-top 582 that I flew 200 hours. I changed it for a Jabiru 2200 on which I have 300 hours. I was pleased with the Rotax and I am pleased with the Jabiru. Weight-wise, a slight increased with the Jabiru that I simply corrected by moving the battery from the firewall to behind the seat. Performance is not very different. Initial climb is about the same but cruise is at lower power setting with the Jabiru. The reason I changed engine is that the 582 was from 1992 and had 300 hours, and now I have a nearly maintenance-free engine with 2,000 hours TBO. The Jabiru also runs smoother. Installing the Jabiru was very easy; few parts and straight forward installation. The only problem is that the cowling must be modified. Otherwise, the fun is to be up in the air, whatever the engine! Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:05 AM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... I had a 582 in my Avid MK IV and replaced it with a 2200 Jabiru. Take off performance was no better than the 582 (I agree with you on turning a big s low prop) I did see an improvement in the cruise speed of the Jabiru though . About 15 MPH faster with the Jab. The plane gained about 15-20 lbs=2C b ut not all of that was due to the engine. I do feel a bit more comfortable with the four stroke=2C as where I fly is mostly trees and lakes. I found a 912 80 HP Rotax for my Kitfox 4 project. It is a bit heavier than the J abiru=2C and does turn high RPMs=2C but I think it might be better suited t o our planes than the Jabiru. I think the Jabiru is somwhat better suited to a slick=2C higher speed plane like a Sonex. In reality though=2C I don' t have much real experience with the 912s yet so my opinion might change af ter I start flying the Kitfox 4. Jim Chuk Avids=2C Kitfox 4 northern Mn > Date: Wed=2C 16 Sep 2009 09:17:25 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > From: bnn@nethere.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... > > > At 06:00 AM 9/16/2009=2C you wrote: > >"The weight of the 582 plus liquids wound up being somewhat more than > >the entire Jab installation (about three pounds) with no change in > >W/ B. I figure I lost a few pounds and gained 24 hp." > > Lynn=2C > I think Michel V. decided that the 2200 was a direct > replacement for his 582. I vaguely remember he claimed little > performance difference between the two. I have noticed that my 582 > seems to perform way beyond its "65 horsepower" in company with Cubs > and Rans and the like. I suspect the 3:1 gearbox turning a big prop > has a lot to do with it=2C but have never bothered to work it out. I > think the 912 benefits from this effect as well=2C as it seems to > perform beyond its rated horsepower too. > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego=2C CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Bing brings you health info from trusted sources. http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&cre a=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:03 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox Alan, Might try as a marketing idea to offer a free Kitfox with the purchase of the How to Fly a Kitfox book. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "alnanarthur" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox I have a Kitfox for sale and it comes with the The "Kitfox Pilots Guide" by Edward S. Downs and "How to fly a Kitfox" also by Edward S. Downs. See ad below: KITFOX 5, 912ULS ENGINE $35,000 FOR SALE BY BUILDER Long-wing, 230hrs TT, Warpdrive prop, EIS, ELT, VFR SportPilot ready. Contact Allan A. Arthur, Owner - located Martinez, CA USA Telephone: 925 932-1398 Allan Arthur Kitfox 5, N40AA Rotax 912ULS, Warpdrive 3 blade Byron Airport, CA (C83) Hanger C8 Do Not Archive On Sep 16, 2009, at 7:06 AM, ctmcdowell@comcast.net wrote: > Anyone know where I can get a copy of the Kitfox Pilots Guide? I > looked in Amazon, E-Bay etc and can't seem to find a copy. Thanks. > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:08 PM PST US From: "Rueb, Duane" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox Jeff, I agree with you on this. I have read the book and did not find it of much use to fly my model 5 with IO-240B4B doing the pulling. I can't say it flies just like a ------, but it does not really fly the way the book says either. I would say that is unique and once airborne it requires some consideration to change that status to being back on the ground in ways that nothing I have flown before does, but now that I know what it does, I do not find it particularly difficult but it is demanding of the pilot's attention, and I find that I need to use less bank than I have been used to using in other airplanes. One of the reasons that I wanted it was that I had not had prior experience with tail draggers, having owned a Piper Tri-Pacer and having trained in Beechcraft and taught in Cherokees. I first received some tail dragger training in a Cessna 140, but again the type five with OI-240 is quite different from that one. I should probably fly the 140 again now that I have some experience with T.Draggers, but that hasn't happened yet. I feel that I am only beginning to understand what this airplane can do, and look forward to learning more about it. I do love it, cause it is so much fun. Duane Rueb N24ZM -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: how to fly a kitfox 'How to fly a Kitfox' has absolutely no relevance for flying my Series 5 with IO-240B, I think it only applies to lightweight engine planes. Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263328#263328 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:20 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Regarding the 582 weight.... Nail....hit.....head, Guy. I think the gearbox and 3 big blades is ALL of the equation, for both the 2-strokes and the 912 variants. I think it all comes down to a preference as to whether one likes to get off the ground quick and rev a lot higher in cruise, or get off the ground a bit slower and run half the revs at cruise. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 770.6 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~230 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying On Sep 16, 2009, at 12:17 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > At 06:00 AM 9/16/2009, you wrote: >> "The weight of the 582 plus liquids wound up being somewhat more than >> the entire Jab installation (about three pounds) with no change in >> W/ B. I figure I lost a few pounds and gained 24 hp." > > Lynn, > I think Michel V. decided that the 2200 was a direct > replacement for his 582. I vaguely remember he claimed little > performance difference between the two. I have noticed that my 582 > seems to perform way beyond its "65 horsepower" in company with > Cubs and Rans and the like. I suspect the 3:1 gearbox turning a big > prop has a lot to do with it, but have never bothered to work it > out. I think the 912 benefits from this effect as well, as it seems > to perform beyond its rated horsepower too. > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.