Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Av8r3400)
2. 05:57 AM - Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks (Pete Christensen)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks (paul wilson)
4. 08:26 AM - Re: Fw: fuel proof epoxy (Noelloveys)
5. 08:44 AM - How much fuel do YOU carry? (Guy Buchanan)
6. 09:08 AM - 582 Ignition (verizon)
7. 10:08 AM - Re: How much fuel do YOU carry? (Lynn Matteson)
8. 11:25 AM - Re: Duct tape (akflyer)
9. 11:30 AM - Re: How much fuel do YOU carry? (akflyer)
10. 11:39 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09 (akflyer)
11. 01:00 PM - Fuel (Robert Rivard)
12. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (Noelloveys)
13. 03:31 PM - Re: Fuel (Lowell Fitt)
14. 05:01 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (carlisle)
15. 06:07 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Tom Jones)
16. 07:34 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (carlisle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Check this out. (http://www.belknaptools.com/extcalc.asp)
This was part of my response to the original poster on the Team Kitfox Forum.
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268898#268898
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks |
If you Kreem your fuel tanks how do you protect the various holes like
site gauge etc. from being plugged.
Pete
KFIII, 912
----- Original Message -----
From: Kitfoxkirk
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:33 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks
Hello Paul,
You say you are flying again. What type of fuel lines did you install
on your newly Kreemed fuel tanks?
I have been experiencing the same thing. My engine started to run
rough about four years ago. I just completed the re-slosh with Kreem and
I bought some fuel line at NAPA auto stores. It is black rubber gas
line. I would expect that ethanol and any other auto fuel will not harm
this fuel line. I do not know about 100LL however. I sometimes fuel up
with 100LL during cross country flights.
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV 912UL
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks |
Take out all of them and replace with pipe plugs.
Then put them back in with your original sealant.
Paul
===============
At 05:52 AM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>If you Kreem your fuel tanks how do you protect the various holes
>like site gauge etc. from being plugged.
>
>
>Pete
>KFIII, 912
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:aviateer@gmail.com>Kitfoxkirk
>To: <mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:33 PM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks
>
>Hello Paul,
>
>You say you are flying again. What type of fuel lines did you
>install on your newly Kreemed fuel tanks?
>
>I have been experiencing the same thing. My engine started to run
>rough about four years ago. I just completed the re-slosh with Kreem
>and I bought some fuel line at NAPA auto stores. It is black rubber
>gas line. I would expect that ethanol and any other auto fuel will
>not harm this fuel line. I do not know about 100LL however. I
>sometimes fuel up with 100LL during cross country flights.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Kirk Martenson
>
>Classic IV 912UL
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fwd: fuel proof epoxy |
Fuel proof can mean a myriad of things. The problem isn't gasoline it's the
ethanol they are now putting in the gas in a lot of places. When
questioning the manufacturers it is ethanol you need to specifically ask
about.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fwd: fuel proof epoxy
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
Subject: fuel proof epoxy
a lot of web time and phone calling and i learned one thing..........lots of
mfgrs. will say the ''R'' word[resistant] but no one wants to say the ''p''
word [proof] when it comes to an epoxy standing up to gasoline. i finally
found one described as fuelproof. perhaps it is or perhaps the guy on the
phone was blowing smoke you know where. i ordered ''red epoxy''. this was
after going thru mcmaster carr, grainger, jb weld and several other epoxy
mfgers. we will see.
thanks to all who replied.
bob noffs
p.s. anyone have experience with removing a jet from a carb with an
easyout?!
Message 5
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| Subject: | How much fuel do YOU carry? |
At 09:57 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>All I'm suggesting is that for local trips around the patch, flying
>to the local $100 'burger joint, or just flying for an hour in the
>evening, it is not necessary...for me...to fly with FULL tanks every
>time I take off, IF you have two 13-gallon tanks. You have to do the
>math, and see if you NEED to lug all that fuel with you.
Lynn,
Fuel quantity is relative. I could, I suppose, put a 33
gallon fuel tank in the right seat, as well as my 26 gallons of wing
tank fuel, for every launch that I don't carry a passenger. That way
I'd be sure of getting where I was going, with lots of options.
However, here in SoCal one hour of extra fuel (5 gallons) will
generally find you a VMC airport with fuel so I really don't
understand the requirement to carry more. I've flown in places where
that wasn't true, and there I carry more fuel. The bottom line is
that flying is a thinking game, with Draconian punishments for the
thoughtless, and the only thing that will keep you 100% safe is to
stay on the ground.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 6
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Am i correct in that.............Once a 582 is running..........outside
of turning the ignition off (master key switch off ) is there anything
else outside of a wiring problem in between that switch and the ignition
that would keep the engine from running continual?
The redundency in the ducatii ignition and the charging system inside
the engine should keep it running even in the event of an electrical
battery or electrical relay failure?
What is the likelyhood of the ignition system itself failing? Ignition
on both wires of one cylinder would certainly bring down a fox but has
anyone heard someone talk about this on the list?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: How much fuel do YOU carry? |
Exactly my point, Guy. Enough fuel for the mission whether it be
crossing the Atlantic, or hopping from Yucca Valley to Twentynine
Palms. Around here, with the flatness of the land, and airports
abundant, there is not the burning need to keep the tanks at maximum
full. Maybe an axiom could be drawn from this....the fuller the tank,
the shallower the thinking need be. Or, "the emptier the tank, the
fuller the brain must be"
And speaking of abundant airports, there are something like 200
charted airports in Michigan, and over 500 that are not charted, or
private. I bought a list of the uncharted ones, but in an emergency,
there usually isn't time to figure where you are, consult the list,
pick out one and land there. When I had my little problem the other
day, I got lucky to see one of these uncharted fields and land there.
The point is, if there are that many airfields, one is usually
nearby.....not a reason to run out of fuel just to test one's luck,
but comforting nonetheless.
I got lucky the other day and cheated Draco out of a good
thrashing....so I polished up my thinking cap, and will do my best to
"keep on thinking free." (Moody Blues) : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> At 09:57 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>> All I'm suggesting is that for local trips around the patch, flying
>> to the local $100 'burger joint, or just flying for an hour in the
>> evening, it is not necessary...for me...to fly with FULL tanks every
>> time I take off, IF you have two 13-gallon tanks. You have to do the
>> math, and see if you NEED to lug all that fuel with you.
>
> Lynn,
> Fuel quantity is relative. I could, I suppose, put a 33
> gallon fuel tank in the right seat, as well as my 26 gallons of
> wing tank fuel, for every launch that I don't carry a passenger.
> That way I'd be sure of getting where I was going, with lots of
> options. However, here in SoCal one hour of extra fuel (5 gallons)
> will generally find you a VMC airport with fuel so I really don't
> understand the requirement to carry more. I've flown in places
> where that wasn't true, and there I carry more fuel. The bottom
> line is that flying is a thinking game, with Draconian punishments
> for the thoughtless, and the only thing that will keep you 100%
> safe is to stay on the ground.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
>
Message 8
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sorry to disappoint you, no snake oil this one is very true! I think that was
in 79 or 80 that it happened. I can promise you that Kenny wishes it was made
up, he would not have had to buy and new plane and rebuild the cabin!
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268951#268951
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: How much fuel do YOU carry? |
enough to carry out the planned flight, with about an hour reserve Not very often
I take off with more than 15 gallons on board for a normal flight. I have
topped the tanks off a few times and she gets kinda piggy with a passenger and
full tanks.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268952#268952
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09 |
edgraydallas wrote:
> Lynn, you are trippin man! I didn't know wacky tobacky grew up in Michigan.
> You didn't really think ole Snake just took of one blade and flew with the
> other two not opposed, did you? Anyhow, you guys constantly entertain me.
> My bird is flying and I bought home-made floats from Canada, (Muktuk
> pattern) so hope to be on water next summer.I'll send a pic to the digest.
>
> Ed Gray, dallas, KFII 582 gsc
>
> --
I was looking at those floats for a buddy of mine. What size patterns did you
get?
snake...
BTW, you know, the way you guys make it sound, you would think I have made a jackass
movie for airplanes... hmmmm maybe I should call MTV and see if they are
looking for new show ideas.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268954#268954
Message 11
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I recently acquired a KitFox 4 classic.What is creamed tanks? Is their a problem
I should be aware of?
My windshield will need replacing in the near future. Is this something I can fabricate
out of Lexon or must it be factory formed.
BOB
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Changes in torque can be significant especially when torquing composite and
wooden props. The easiest way to eliminate and deviation in torque form
what is delivered by a properly calibrated torque wrench is to always apply
the final torque with the crows foot at 90 degrees to the torque wrench.
This is easy to verify by simply torquing a nut and bolt put through an old
piece of scrap steel. Then checking the torque without the crow foot. For
those of you worried about a crow foot slipping you can also use a cable or
hose wrench. It looks like a cross between a crow foot and a ring wrench.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Here you go. See attached for Crowsfoot torque calculation. It's not a huge
change, just a slight one. Play with the calculation it isn't hard. Just
kind of fill in the blanks and a simple math problem.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268863#268863
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/torque_with_a_crowfoot_calculation_172.pd
f
Message 13
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Bob,
Congratulations on your acquirintg a Model IV. It is a great airplane.
The original factory tanks were not fuel proof. Kreem is a tank liner that
the factory chose to seal the inside of the tanks. It is a good product if
used according to the directions. Many early tanks came pre Kreemed from
the factory. Yours might be Kreemed. You can tell by looking in the filler
neck and if there is a thin whitish coating - it yellows a bit eith age, the
tank has been Kreemed.
Regarding the windsheild, the material is polycarbonate and it comes under
many brand names. Lexan is one. There is also an acrylic windsheld sold
as an aftermarket product. They are more difficult to install and cost and
weigh a lot more. If you decide to replace the windsheld, remove it by
drilling out the rivets or removing the screws and use it as a pattern for
cutting and drilling the new material. It is a fairly easy project.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Second Build Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Starting Right Wing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Rivard" <bw12345@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:57 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel
>I recently acquired a KitFox 4 classic.What is creamed tanks? Is their a
>problem I should be aware of?
> My windshield will need replacing in the near future. Is this something I
> can fabricate out of Lexon or must it be factory formed.
>
> BOB
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Tom...I'm not sure what you mean by 'prop circle'. The bolts that attach the prop
hub to the flange ARE threaded, there are 6 of them, and there are 6 studs
that are also threaded into the prop flange and fit into holes in the back of
the hub to relieve torsional loads on the prop. In addition, there are 2 'pinching'
bolts for each of the 3 blades that squeeze the hub onto the molded neoprene
blade roots. They do not pass through to the flange on the transmission.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268991#268991
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
> Tom...I'm not sure what you mean by 'prop circle'. The bolts that attach the
prop hub to the flange ARE threaded, there are 6 of them, and there are 6 studs
that are also threaded into the prop flange and fit into holes in the back of
the hub to relieve torsional loads on the prop. In addition, there are 2 'pinching'
bolts for each of the 3 blades that squeeze the hub onto the molded neoprene
blade roots. They do not pass through to the flange on the transmission.
>
> Chris
My original post was to alert you incase you had a prop that uses 8mm bolts into
the threaded 8mm holes so you could be sure someone had not put 5/16 bolts in.
If it is a Type-B drive:
The prop flange has 1/4 inch and 8mm holes arranged on a 75mm circle. On older
Rotax prop flanges the 1/4 inch are threaded to 1/4-28. On newer flanges the
1/4 inch holes have no threads and you use lock nuts on the prop bolts. On both
old and new types the 8mm holes are threaded and those are the holes the
8mm studs are threaded into.
If it is a Type-C drive:
There are two different diameter bolt circles. A 75mm bolt circle (same as the
Tyle-b drives) and a larger 100mm bolt circle. the 100mm bolt circle is always
8mm and untapped. If a prop is designed for the larger circle it is attached
with 8mm bolts.
If your GSC is the same as the one I used all the bolts are 1/4 inch and the 6
8mm studs in the threaded 8mm holes. Some use a drilled head bolt and safety
wire and some installations use lock nuts on the bolt.
Wow, I hope I didn't confuse yoy with all this but I think from what you say in
your last post your installation is correct.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268997#268997
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Tom...Wow, very complicated indeed. But thanks for the explanation. I had no
idea there were so many variants.
Mine's a B gearbox. The 6 through bolts that attach the prop are special high
grade bolts supplied by Skystar, way back when I built the plane. They have about
150 hrs on them and my A&P mechanic friends say they're in good shape so
I don't need to replace them. I'm not exactly sure their diameter or thread pitch
and can't remember the markings on the head.
Interestingly, when I had the prop overhauled by GSC, I asked for new bolts anyway
and they said that they recommend standard AN hardware for mounting now.
Anyway, I have another question. Does anyone use threadlock? Not the strongest
kind (red I think), but just something to make the bolt a little more secure.
Is thread lock a no-no in aviation applications?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269004#269004
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