Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:11 AM - Prop for Sale (Ken Potter)
2. 09:16 AM - Re: Prop for Sale (Ken Potter)
3. 12:55 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: Muktuk floats (Ed Gray)
4. 01:23 PM - F210 reading very HIGH (jridgway)
5. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (Noelloveys)
6. 02:34 PM - Re: How much fuel do YOU carry? (Noelloveys)
7. 02:44 PM - Re: 582 Ignition (Noelloveys)
8. 03:06 PM - Re: Fuel (Noelloveys)
9. 03:39 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (Noelloveys)
10. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (Marco Menezes)
11. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (paul wilson)
12. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (Guy Buchanan)
13. 04:28 PM - Re: 582 Ignition (Tom Jones)
14. 04:56 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (Noelloveys)
15. 04:57 PM - Re: Alcohol reminder (jridgway)
16. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (Noelloveys)
17. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: 582 Ignition (Noelloveys)
18. 06:24 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (carlisle)
19. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: Alcohol reminder (Larry Huntley)
20. 07:43 PM - Re: 582 Ignition (Tom Jones)
21. 09:21 PM - Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks (paul perry)
Message 1
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Hi Folks;
I have a 68" GSC In Flight Adjustable prop for sale. It is for a Rotax 912S and
is factory new with 0 Hours. I purchased it a while back from an estate sale
on Barnstormers for a future project, but my plans have changed (buying a 406
mhz ELT to meet new Canadian Regs). If anyone is interested please call me
at 613 259-3242 or e.mail at kjpotter@sympatico.ca
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269059#269059
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf9104_555.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Prop for Sale |
I just realized I didn't give a price. I'm asking $ 1500. (It is $2300 new
from GSC)
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269098#269098
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox-List Digest: Muktuk floats |
Snake and others interested in floats-I bought the floats from Kasper Naef
in Nelson BC and he built them as retractable prototypes with the Muktuk guy
in Vancouver. Muktuk has now abandoned the project and sells only plans.
The floats were originally 16 feet long but Kasper cut some off the tails
and used them on his Rans Courier, but did not use the retracts. They are a
little oversize for a Kitfox II and I am already thinking of doing the
Kitfox 7 kit in a year or two. The floats weigh #220 with spreaders, so my
KII will be a single place with them, but thats OK, nobody around here is
crazy enuf to fly with me. The retracts are actuated by compressed air and
auto airbags-very ingenius concept but needs tinkering. Don Usher has
promised to help with the tinkering. Thats why they call us EXPERIMENTAL.
Ed Gray Dallas KII 582 do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 10/22/09
*
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Total Messages Posted Thu 10/22/09: 16
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Av8r3400)
2. 05:57 AM - Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks (Pete Christensen)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks (paul wilson)
4. 08:26 AM - Re: Fw: fuel proof epoxy (Noelloveys)
5. 08:44 AM - How much fuel do YOU carry? (Guy Buchanan)
6. 09:08 AM - 582 Ignition (verizon)
7. 10:08 AM - Re: How much fuel do YOU carry? (Lynn Matteson)
8. 11:25 AM - Re: Duct tape (akflyer)
9. 11:30 AM - Re: How much fuel do YOU carry? (akflyer)
10. 11:39 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09 (akflyer)
11. 01:00 PM - Fuel (Robert Rivard)
12. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Torquing prop bolts (Noelloveys)
13. 03:31 PM - Re: Fuel (Lowell Fitt)
14. 05:01 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (carlisle)
15. 06:07 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (Tom Jones)
16. 07:34 PM - Re: Torquing prop bolts (carlisle)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 04:11:36 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
From: "Av8r3400" <theav8rweb@yahoo.com>
Check this out. (http://www.belknaptools.com/extcalc.asp)
This was part of my response to the original poster on the Team Kitfox
Forum.
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268898#268898
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:57:22 AM PST US
From: "Pete Christensen" <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks
If you Kreem your fuel tanks how do you protect the various holes like
site gauge etc. from being plugged.
Pete
KFIII, 912
----- Original Message -----
From: Kitfoxkirk
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:33 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks
Hello Paul,
You say you are flying again. What type of fuel lines did you install
on your newly Kreemed fuel tanks?
I have been experiencing the same thing. My engine started to run
rough about four years ago. I just completed the re-slosh with Kreem and
I bought some fuel line at NAPA auto stores. It is black rubber gas
line. I would expect that ethanol and any other auto fuel will not harm
this fuel line. I do not know about 100LL however. I sometimes fuel up
with 100LL during cross country flights.
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV 912UL
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 06:45:17 AM PST US
From: paul wilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks
Take out all of them and replace with pipe plugs.
Then put them back in with your original sealant.
Paul
==============
At 05:52 AM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>If you Kreem your fuel tanks how do you protect the various holes
>like site gauge etc. from being plugged.
>
>
>Pete
>KFIII, 912
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:aviateer@gmail.com>Kitfoxkirk
>To: <mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:33 PM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks
>
>Hello Paul,
>
>You say you are flying again. What type of fuel lines did you
>install on your newly Kreemed fuel tanks?
>
>I have been experiencing the same thing. My engine started to run
>rough about four years ago. I just completed the re-slosh with Kreem
>and I bought some fuel line at NAPA auto stores. It is black rubber
>gas line. I would expect that ethanol and any other auto fuel will
>not harm this fuel line. I do not know about 100LL however. I
>sometimes fuel up with 100LL during cross country flights.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Kirk Martenson
>
>Classic IV 912UL
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 08:26:22 AM PST US
From: "Noelloveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fwd: fuel proof epoxy
Fuel proof can mean a myriad of things. The problem isn't gasoline it's the
ethanol they are now putting in the gas in a lot of places. When
questioning the manufacturers it is ethanol you need to specifically ask
about.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fwd: fuel proof epoxy
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
Subject: fuel proof epoxy
a lot of web time and phone calling and i learned one thing..........lots of
mfgrs. will say the ''R'' word[resistant] but no one wants to say the ''p''
word [proof] when it comes to an epoxy standing up to gasoline. i finally
found one described as fuelproof. perhaps it is or perhaps the guy on the
phone was blowing smoke you know where. i ordered ''red epoxy''. this was
after going thru mcmaster carr, grainger, jb weld and several other epoxy
mfgers. we will see.
thanks to all who replied.
bob noffs
p.s. anyone have experience with removing a jet from a carb with an
easyout?!
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 08:44:32 AM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: How much fuel do YOU carry?
At 09:57 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>All I'm suggesting is that for local trips around the patch, flying
>to the local $100 'burger joint, or just flying for an hour in the
>evening, it is not necessary...for me...to fly with FULL tanks every
>time I take off, IF you have two 13-gallon tanks. You have to do the
>math, and see if you NEED to lug all that fuel with you.
Lynn,
Fuel quantity is relative. I could, I suppose, put a 33
gallon fuel tank in the right seat, as well as my 26 gallons of wing
tank fuel, for every launch that I don't carry a passenger. That way
I'd be sure of getting where I was going, with lots of options.
However, here in SoCal one hour of extra fuel (5 gallons) will
generally find you a VMC airport with fuel so I really don't
understand the requirement to carry more. I've flown in places where
that wasn't true, and there I carry more fuel. The bottom line is
that flying is a thinking game, with Draconian punishments for the
thoughtless, and the only thing that will keep you 100% safe is to
stay on the ground.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 09:08:04 AM PST US
From: "verizon" <jareds@verizon.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Ignition
Am i correct in that.............Once a 582 is running..........outside
of turning the ignition off (master key switch off ) is there anything
else outside of a wiring problem in between that switch and the ignition
that would keep the engine from running continual?
The redundency in the ducatii ignition and the charging system inside
the engine should keep it running even in the event of an electrical
battery or electrical relay failure?
What is the likelyhood of the ignition system itself failing? Ignition
on both wires of one cylinder would certainly bring down a fox but has
anyone heard someone talk about this on the list?
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 10:08:16 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: How much fuel do YOU carry?
Exactly my point, Guy. Enough fuel for the mission whether it be
crossing the Atlantic, or hopping from Yucca Valley to Twentynine
Palms. Around here, with the flatness of the land, and airports
abundant, there is not the burning need to keep the tanks at maximum
full. Maybe an axiom could be drawn from this....the fuller the tank,
the shallower the thinking need be. Or, "the emptier the tank, the
fuller the brain must be"
And speaking of abundant airports, there are something like 200
charted airports in Michigan, and over 500 that are not charted, or
private. I bought a list of the uncharted ones, but in an emergency,
there usually isn't time to figure where you are, consult the list,
pick out one and land there. When I had my little problem the other
day, I got lucky to see one of these uncharted fields and land there.
The point is, if there are that many airfields, one is usually
nearby.....not a reason to run out of fuel just to test one's luck,
but comforting nonetheless.
I got lucky the other day and cheated Draco out of a good
thrashing....so I polished up my thinking cap, and will do my best to
"keep on thinking free." (Moody Blues) : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> At 09:57 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>> All I'm suggesting is that for local trips around the patch, flying
>> to the local $100 'burger joint, or just flying for an hour in the
>> evening, it is not necessary...for me...to fly with FULL tanks every
>> time I take off, IF you have two 13-gallon tanks. You have to do the
>> math, and see if you NEED to lug all that fuel with you.
>
> Lynn,
> Fuel quantity is relative. I could, I suppose, put a 33
> gallon fuel tank in the right seat, as well as my 26 gallons of
> wing tank fuel, for every launch that I don't carry a passenger.
> That way I'd be sure of getting where I was going, with lots of
> options. However, here in SoCal one hour of extra fuel (5 gallons)
> will generally find you a VMC airport with fuel so I really don't
> understand the requirement to carry more. I've flown in places
> where that wasn't true, and there I carry more fuel. The bottom
> line is that flying is a thinking game, with Draconian punishments
> for the thoughtless, and the only thing that will keep you 100%
> safe is to stay on the ground.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 11:25:01 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Duct tape
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
sorry to disappoint you, no snake oil this one is very true! I think that
was
in 79 or 80 that it happened. I can promise you that Kenny wishes it was
made
up, he would not have had to buy and new plane and rebuild the cabin!
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268951#268951
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 11:30:07 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: How much fuel do YOU carry?
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
enough to carry out the planned flight, with about an hour reserve Not very
often
I take off with more than 15 gallons on board for a normal flight. I have
topped the tanks off a few times and she gets kinda piggy with a passenger
and
full tanks.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268952#268952
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 11:39:29 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 10/19/09
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
edgraydallas wrote:
> Lynn, you are trippin man! I didn't know wacky tobacky grew up in
Michigan.
> You didn't really think ole Snake just took of one blade and flew with the
> other two not opposed, did you? Anyhow, you guys constantly entertain me.
> My bird is flying and I bought home-made floats from Canada, (Muktuk
> pattern) so hope to be on water next summer.I'll send a pic to the digest.
>
> Ed Gray, dallas, KFII 582 gsc
>
> --
I was looking at those floats for a buddy of mine. What size patterns did
you
get?
snake...
BTW, you know, the way you guys make it sound, you would think I have made a
jackass
movie for airplanes... hmmmm maybe I should call MTV and see if they are
looking for new show ideas.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268954#268954
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 01:00:22 PM PST US
From: Robert Rivard <bw12345@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel
I recently acquired a KitFox 4 classic.What is creamed tanks? Is their a
problem
I should be aware of?
My windshield will need replacing in the near future. Is this something I
can fabricate
out of Lexon or must it be factory formed.
BOB
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 01:36:58 PM PST US
From: "Noelloveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Changes in torque can be significant especially when torquing composite and
wooden props. The easiest way to eliminate and deviation in torque form
what is delivered by a properly calibrated torque wrench is to always apply
the final torque with the crows foot at 90 degrees to the torque wrench.
This is easy to verify by simply torquing a nut and bolt put through an old
piece of scrap steel. Then checking the torque without the crow foot. For
those of you worried about a crow foot slipping you can also use a cable or
hose wrench. It looks like a cross between a crow foot and a ring wrench.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Here you go. See attached for Crowsfoot torque calculation. It's not a huge
change, just a slight one. Play with the calculation it isn't hard. Just
kind of fill in the blanks and a simple math problem.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268863#268863
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/torque_with_a_crowfoot_calculation_172.pd
f
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 03:31:09 PM PST US
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel
Bob,
Congratulations on your acquirintg a Model IV. It is a great airplane.
The original factory tanks were not fuel proof. Kreem is a tank liner that
the factory chose to seal the inside of the tanks. It is a good product if
used according to the directions. Many early tanks came pre Kreemed from
the factory. Yours might be Kreemed. You can tell by looking in the filler
neck and if there is a thin whitish coating - it yellows a bit eith age, the
tank has been Kreemed.
Regarding the windsheild, the material is polycarbonate and it comes under
many brand names. Lexan is one. There is also an acrylic windsheld sold
as an aftermarket product. They are more difficult to install and cost and
weigh a lot more. If you decide to replace the windsheld, remove it by
drilling out the rivets or removing the screws and use it as a pattern for
cutting and drilling the new material. It is a fairly easy project.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Second Build Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Starting Right Wing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Rivard" <bw12345@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:57 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel
>I recently acquired a KitFox 4 classic.What is creamed tanks? Is their a
>problem I should be aware of?
> My windshield will need replacing in the near future. Is this something I
> can fabricate out of Lexon or must it be factory formed.
>
> BOB
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 05:01:25 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
From: "carlisle" <carlisle_99@yahoo.com>
Tom...I'm not sure what you mean by 'prop circle'. The bolts that attach
the prop
hub to the flange ARE threaded, there are 6 of them, and there are 6 studs
that are also threaded into the prop flange and fit into holes in the back
of
the hub to relieve torsional loads on the prop. In addition, there are 2
'pinching'
bolts for each of the 3 blades that squeeze the hub onto the molded neoprene
blade roots. They do not pass through to the flange on the transmission.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268991#268991
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 06:07:12 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
> Tom...I'm not sure what you mean by 'prop circle'. The bolts that attach
the
prop hub to the flange ARE threaded, there are 6 of them, and there are 6
studs
that are also threaded into the prop flange and fit into holes in the back
of
the hub to relieve torsional loads on the prop. In addition, there are 2
'pinching'
bolts for each of the 3 blades that squeeze the hub onto the molded neoprene
blade roots. They do not pass through to the flange on the transmission.
>
> Chris
My original post was to alert you incase you had a prop that uses 8mm bolts
into
the threaded 8mm holes so you could be sure someone had not put 5/16 bolts
in.
If it is a Type-B drive:
The prop flange has 1/4 inch and 8mm holes arranged on a 75mm circle. On
older
Rotax prop flanges the 1/4 inch are threaded to 1/4-28. On newer flanges
the
1/4 inch holes have no threads and you use lock nuts on the prop bolts. On
both
old and new types the 8mm holes are threaded and those are the holes the
8mm studs are threaded into.
If it is a Type-C drive:
There are two different diameter bolt circles. A 75mm bolt circle (same as
the
Tyle-b drives) and a larger 100mm bolt circle. the 100mm bolt circle is
always
8mm and untapped. If a prop is designed for the larger circle it is attached
with 8mm bolts.
If your GSC is the same as the one I used all the bolts are 1/4 inch and the
6
8mm studs in the threaded 8mm holes. Some use a drilled head bolt and
safety
wire and some installations use lock nuts on the bolt.
Wow, I hope I didn't confuse yoy with all this but I think from what you say
in
your last post your installation is correct.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268997#268997
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 07:34:54 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
From: "carlisle" <carlisle_99@yahoo.com>
Tom...Wow, very complicated indeed. But thanks for the explanation. I had
no
idea there were so many variants.
Mine's a B gearbox. The 6 through bolts that attach the prop are special
high
grade bolts supplied by Skystar, way back when I built the plane. They have
about
150 hrs on them and my A&P mechanic friends say they're in good shape so
I don't need to replace them. I'm not exactly sure their diameter or thread
pitch
and can't remember the markings on the head.
Interestingly, when I had the prop overhauled by GSC, I asked for new bolts
anyway
and they said that they recommend standard AN hardware for mounting now.
Anyway, I have another question. Does anyone use threadlock? Not the
strongest
kind (red I think), but just something to make the bolt a little more
secure.
Is thread lock a no-no in aviation applications?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269004#269004
Message 4
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| Subject: | F210 reading very HIGH |
My F210 is reading about 10 times higher than it should. Documentation says this
is likely due to air in the system. Calling the factory was no help. Anybody
else have this problem? I have my 2 wing tanks feeding the rear 'reserve/header'
tank with the transducer about 6 inches below the 'reserve/header' tank in
a vertical configuration. Engine runs fine with full power so I am not starving
the engine.
Jack
ANY SUGGESTIONS?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269148#269148
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
This is true... Recommendations are; the prop be bolted on to specified
torque and lockwired, however, Ivo requires you NOT lockwire the bolts.
When I asked why I was told it was because people didn't like to cut the
lockwire to check torque on the scheduled basis. Even though I prefer to
see lockwire on a prop I did not drill and wire mine.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Hart
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:08 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Nope. It's not a FAA/PMA prop. No FAR specifies which way bolts are
installed. There are Advisory Circulars that recommend certain ways to
install bolts, but manufacturer's recommended procedures take precedence
over AC recommendations, even in the case of FAA/PMA approved products.
John Hart
KF IV, NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Walker
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:10 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Hi,
Just wondering. Is there a FAR that requires that bolts go from front to
rear? Could the bolt head be placed in the rear and the nut in front. I
had a Warp Drive prop on a 912, and I believe the instructions for assembly
of the prop and hub specified this.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive.
carlisle wrote:
> Was surfing around and found this little note on another forum. It
applies to a Zenair but struck a note with me. Every time I go to retorque
my GSC 66" adjustable pitch prop, the bolts are loose. The prop was just
inspected and overhauled by GSC. My torque wrench is calibrated, etc, etc.
>
> Anyway, here's the topic:
>
> Chris
> Model 2, 582
> Sioux Falls, SD
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268843#268843
Message 6
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| Subject: | How much fuel do YOU carry? |
Maybe you should have said get in the ground!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: How much fuel do YOU carry?
At 09:57 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>All I'm suggesting is that for local trips around the patch, flying
>to the local $100 'burger joint, or just flying for an hour in the
>evening, it is not necessary...for me...to fly with FULL tanks every
>time I take off, IF you have two 13-gallon tanks. You have to do the
>math, and see if you NEED to lug all that fuel with you.
Lynn,
Fuel quantity is relative. I could, I suppose, put a 33
gallon fuel tank in the right seat, as well as my 26 gallons of wing
tank fuel, for every launch that I don't carry a passenger. That way
I'd be sure of getting where I was going, with lots of options.
However, here in SoCal one hour of extra fuel (5 gallons) will
generally find you a VMC airport with fuel so I really don't
understand the requirement to carry more. I've flown in places where
that wasn't true, and there I carry more fuel. The bottom line is
that flying is a thinking game, with Draconian punishments for the
thoughtless, and the only thing that will keep you 100% safe is to
stay on the ground.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 7
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Like any other engine there is plenty to go wrong once the engine is
running.
A few things are..
The dual ignition has a common primary coil so a short on one side can stop
the other side too.
There is always the issue of running out of gas. water in the fuel etc
Finally the two stroke engine requires good crank seals to operate. I was
once told starting a two stroke is easy. Keeping it running is the trick!
All that said the engines are very reliable.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of verizon
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:35 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Ignition
Am i correct in that.............Once a 582 is running..........outside of
turning the ignition off (master key switch off ) is there anything else
outside of a wiring problem in between that switch and the ignition that
would keep the engine from running continual?
The redundency in the ducatii ignition and the charging system inside the
engine should keep it running even in the event of an electrical battery or
electrical relay failure?
What is the likelyhood of the ignition system itself failing? Ignition on
both wires of one cylinder would certainly bring down a fox but has anyone
heard someone talk about this on the list?
Message 8
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Kreemed tanks are fuel tanks that have been treated with a product called
Kreeme in an attempt to protect the fiberglass from being consumed by
ethanol in the fuel supply. Properly applied it seems to work. Some guys
never have a problem with ethanol while others have had serious problems.
Best bet is to avoid using ethanol fuel if possible, if not, keep a close
eye on your tanks and check your filters/screens often for any yellow gunk
building up on them. Another idea is not to leave ethanol fuel in your
tanks for extended periods of time. Basically drain your tanks when you
land if you expect to be away for more than a day.
You should be able to fabricate a new windshield from a piece of lexan. Use
the old one for a pattern and try warming up the new one while bending it to
your plane with hot towels. Never let gasoline touch lexan!
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Rivard
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel
I recently acquired a KitFox 4 classic.What is creamed tanks? Is their a
problem I should be aware of?
My windshield will need replacing in the near future. Is this something I
can fabricate out of Lexon or must it be factory formed.
BOB
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
The problem with threadlock , there are aviation specific threadlocks
available, is it makes it impossible to check the torque on the bolts. You
will literally have to remove the bolts clean them and the holes they went
into and re-torque them just to check torque. Nyloc nuts are a lot better
answer... and lockwire is better again if you don't mind cutting a bit of
wire at prescribed intervals to check your torques. If you have an all
metal fixed pitch prop then you can torque, lockwire and basically forget
about it for a long time.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carlisle
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:02 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Tom...Wow, very complicated indeed. But thanks for the explanation. I had
no idea there were so many variants.
Mine's a B gearbox. The 6 through bolts that attach the prop are special
high grade bolts supplied by Skystar, way back when I built the plane. They
have about 150 hrs on them and my A&P mechanic friends say they're in good
shape so I don't need to replace them. I'm not exactly sure their diameter
or thread pitch and can't remember the markings on the head.
Interestingly, when I had the prop overhauled by GSC, I asked for new bolts
anyway and they said that they recommend standard AN hardware for mounting
now.
Anyway, I have another question. Does anyone use threadlock? Not the
strongest kind (red I think), but just something to make the bolt a little
more secure. Is thread lock a no-no in aviation applications?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269004#269004
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
I could be wrong Chris, and someone will surely jump me if I am, but since
those bolts must be retorqued at least annually during your condition inspe
ction, and since they will be safety wired, thread lock isn't necessary or
desireable. At least I don't do that with mine.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Thu, 10/22/09, carlisle <carlisle_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: carlisle <carlisle_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Tom...Wow, very complicated indeed.- But thanks for the explanation.- I
had no idea there were so many variants.
Mine's a B gearbox.- The 6 through bolts that attach the prop are special
high grade bolts supplied by Skystar, way back when I built the plane.-
They have about 150 hrs on them and my A&P mechanic friends say they're in
good shape so I don't need to replace them.- I'm not exactly sure their d
iameter or thread pitch and can't remember the markings on the head.
Interestingly, when I had the prop overhauled by GSC, I asked for new bolts
anyway and they said that they recommend standard AN hardware for mounting
now.-
Anyway, I have another question.- Does anyone use threadlock?- Not the
strongest kind (red I think), but just something to make the bolt a little
more secure.- Is thread lock a no-no in aviation applications?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269004#269004
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Nylocks introduce a torque variable. One must do lots of tests to be
able to get the proper torque has to include the torque resistance of
the nylock. I know many use the nylock nuts but to be correct and
precise use a regular nut and lock wire. Always unscrew the nut then
re torque to get a correct reading.
Standard practice.
Paul
============
At 06:05 PM 10/23/2009, you wrote:
>
>The problem with threadlock , there are aviation specific threadlocks
>available, is it makes it impossible to check the torque on the bolts. You
>will literally have to remove the bolts clean them and the holes they went
>into and re-torque them just to check torque. Nyloc nuts are a lot better
>answer... and lockwire is better again if you don't mind cutting a bit of
>wire at prescribed intervals to check your torques. If you have an all
>metal fixed pitch prop then you can torque, lockwire and basically forget
>about it for a long time.
>
>Noel
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carlisle
>Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:02 AM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
>
>
>Tom...Wow, very complicated indeed. But thanks for the explanation. I had
>no idea there were so many variants.
>Mine's a B gearbox. The 6 through bolts that attach the prop are special
>high grade bolts supplied by Skystar, way back when I built the plane. They
>have about 150 hrs on them and my A&P mechanic friends say they're in good
>shape so I don't need to replace them. I'm not exactly sure their diameter
>or thread pitch and can't remember the markings on the head.
>Interestingly, when I had the prop overhauled by GSC, I asked for new bolts
>anyway and they said that they recommend standard AN hardware for mounting
>now.
>Anyway, I have another question. Does anyone use threadlock? Not the
>strongest kind (red I think), but just something to make the bolt a little
>more secure. Is thread lock a no-no in aviation applications?
>
>Chris
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269004#269004
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
At 07:32 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>Anyway, I have another question. Does anyone use threadlock? Not
>the strongest kind (red I think), but just something to make the
>bolt a little more secure. Is thread lock a no-no in aviation applications?
I use six 8mm bolts threaded into the flange, torqued, then backed by
six nylocks. I also safety wire. Ain't no way that prop's comiin' off.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Ignition |
> The dual ignition has a common primary coil so a short on one side can stop the
other side too.
Noel, my understanding is there are redundant primary ignition coils in the mag
so a failure of one will not kill the engine.
http://www.800-airwolf.com/articles.htm scroll down to part #32, "Understanding the Ducati ignition".
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269175#269175
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
What kind of blades do you have Guy? Most departures I've heard of have
most of the root left in the hub when the blade departs. I don't think I've
ever heard of a hub departing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
At 07:32 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>Anyway, I have another question. Does anyone use threadlock? Not
>the strongest kind (red I think), but just something to make the
>bolt a little more secure. Is thread lock a no-no in aviation
applications?
I use six 8mm bolts threaded into the flange, torqued, then backed by
six nylocks. I also safety wire. Ain't no way that prop's comiin' off.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Alcohol reminder |
In San Antonio, VALERO is still pure gas.
Jack
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269180#269180
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
For the nyloc you use friction torque... That requires the use of a torque
meter or beam type wrench to measure the friction of the nyloc. That
friction is then added to the torque requirement... I prefer your method
with the lockwire but do as the manufacturer instructs me to do.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:52 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
Nylocks introduce a torque variable. One must do lots of tests to be
able to get the proper torque has to include the torque resistance of
the nylock. I know many use the nylock nuts but to be correct and
precise use a regular nut and lock wire. Always unscrew the nut then
re torque to get a correct reading.
Standard practice.
Paul
============
At 06:05 PM 10/23/2009, you wrote:
>
>The problem with threadlock , there are aviation specific threadlocks
>available, is it makes it impossible to check the torque on the bolts. You
>will literally have to remove the bolts clean them and the holes they went
>into and re-torque them just to check torque. Nyloc nuts are a lot better
>answer... and lockwire is better again if you don't mind cutting a bit of
>wire at prescribed intervals to check your torques. If you have an all
>metal fixed pitch prop then you can torque, lockwire and basically forget
>about it for a long time.
>
>Noel
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carlisle
>Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:02 AM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Torquing prop bolts
>
>
>Tom...Wow, very complicated indeed. But thanks for the explanation. I had
>no idea there were so many variants.
>Mine's a B gearbox. The 6 through bolts that attach the prop are special
>high grade bolts supplied by Skystar, way back when I built the plane.
They
>have about 150 hrs on them and my A&P mechanic friends say they're in good
>shape so I don't need to replace them. I'm not exactly sure their diameter
>or thread pitch and can't remember the markings on the head.
>Interestingly, when I had the prop overhauled by GSC, I asked for new bolts
>anyway and they said that they recommend standard AN hardware for mounting
>now.
>Anyway, I have another question. Does anyone use threadlock? Not the
>strongest kind (red I think), but just something to make the bolt a little
>more secure. Is thread lock a no-no in aviation applications?
>
>Chris
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269004#269004
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Ignition |
Note: the kill switches are hooked up to the transistors in what they call
the transducers. ( I look at them as triggered secondary coils) The actual
magneto coil powering the transducers is common to both sets of plugs. A
short in that coil "LC" will definitely stop your engine. Check dia2 pg 72
( second page of part 32)
A good question is what can cause a short in that coil.. there is heat...
over work from a faulty voltage regulator and of course vibration.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:56 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Ignition
> The dual ignition has a common primary coil so a short on one side can
stop the other side too.
Noel, my understanding is there are redundant primary ignition coils in the
mag so a failure of one will not kill the engine.
http://www.800-airwolf.com/articles.htm scroll down to part #32,
"Understanding the Ducati ignition".
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269175#269175
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Torquing prop bolts |
Yeah, I figured thread lock was probably a bad idea. I'll just be satisfied with
a nice, neat and tight piece of safety wire.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269190#269190
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Alcohol reminder |
In Watkins Glen the Valero pump has a big ethanol sign. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "jridgway" <jridgway@academicplanet.com>
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:55 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Alcohol reminder
> <jridgway@academicplanet.com>
>
> In San Antonio, VALERO is still pure gas.
> Jack
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269180#269180
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
14:09:00
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Ignition |
> Note: the kill switches are hooked up to the transistors in what they call
> the transducers. ( I look at them as triggered secondary coils) The actual
> magneto coil powering the transducers is common to both sets of plugs. A
> short in that coil "LC" will definitely stop your engine. Check dia2 pg 72
I believe there are two separate coils that make up the transducer supply windings
(LC-1 and LC-2). Each one of these charges each Transducer (the automobile
looking coils on the outside with the spark plug wires). each transducer fires
a plug in each cylinder. Am I confused, I hope not or the ignition is not
truly redundant.[/b]
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269195#269195
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Re-Kreem Fuel Tanks |
Hi Kirk...yes I'm flying again and I bought the R-9 fuel line, but like Lynn says
I'm sure the R-7 type would be just fine. I had read a couple of posts recommending
the R-9 version so I went with that...I think the diff is the R-9 is
for some types of fuel injection systems and maybe more resistant to alcohol,
but I'm sure there are others who could say for sure. I went with poly-urethane
tubing from "Spruce" for the vent line and the sight tubes and changed out the
"compression type" fittings on the sight tubes to nylon tube fittings 1/4Tx1/8P
that AS&S recommends for gravity fed fuel lines. The good news with all this
is I've had no more sticking valve problems since getting all this done. I
know I had exposed fiberglass in the tanks from where the kreem was coming off,
but there is no way I can say for sure that the resin was being dissolved or
if it was that it was the ethanol or some other additive in the auto gas that
did it...I suppose it could have been the flaking kreem itself..no way to know
for sure...but I do know that when I eliminated the fuel tanks and ran the
engine from a temporary marine tank setup the problem began to clear up after
the first 30 min run. I've now flown for about 4 hours on the re-sloshed tanks
with 100LL and for the last several flights the engine has ran completely smooth
on initial startup(sticking valve symptoms gone).
I recently ordered decalin from AS&S and plan on continuing with the 100LL. Good
luck with your return to flight!! Paul Perry
KF IV Speedster
912UL
Oh, I just installed an Ivoprop Ultralight quick adjust 68" and am loving it....same
cruise and better climb than the GSC(also 68") and I might go another 1/2-1
turn adj and get even better cruise.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269200#269200
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