Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:11 AM - Camerin park CA (Malcolm Brubaker)
2. 07:25 AM - Re: Leaky Header tank (Tommy Walker)
3. 09:43 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 10/27/09 (Ed Gray)
4. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure (W Duke)
5. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
6. 11:46 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
7. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
8. 12:25 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
9. 12:39 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
10. 05:04 PM - Re: Camerin park CA (jerry evans)
11. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lowell Fitt)
12. 10:30 PM - Rod end to elevator horn question. (Cwehner)
Message 1
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we will be in corning- CA in november 9 till the 13th for the rainbow cla
ss for PPS and WS and would like to take anyone on the list to diner that w
eek wile my wife and I are out there-- malcolm
Malcolm Brubaker
=0AMichigan Sport
=0APilot Repair
=0ALSRM-A
=0A(989)513-3022
--- On Tue, 10/27/09, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: lexan or plexaglass,what size 060
Don't use Plexiglass for hand making a windshield.- Lexan is one companie
s trade name for polycarbonate.- I have always used the .060 as it is eas
ier to form around the wing spar area.---I have had a little movement
of the windshield at high speeds - near redline on the Model IV, but it su
its my purposed perfectly.
LowellLowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Second Build Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Building up right wing
----- Original Message ----- From: <Cmflyboy12@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: F210 reading very HIGH
> wants the best for windsheild,lexan or plexaglass,what size- 060
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky Header tank |
I'm not Dan, but did you check out Fuel Lube? Aircraft Spruce has it in tubes.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
DanM wrote:
> Marco, what the brand and product number you used on the threads?
>
> Thanks
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269818#269818
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 10/27/09 |
Re: Fuel system discussion. My recently completed KII (completed FAA
inspection yesterday and waiting for airworthiness cert. in mail) has 2
aluminum wing tanks, flowing downhill to 1.2 gal round alum. header tank
behind seat, then along floor to Facet pump and fuel cutoff valve on cabin
floor then to gascolator on firewall then up to diaphragm pump. I want to
put "red floating ball" used by Mark Napier in the vent line from header
tank to the right wing tank for an indication that wing tanks are empty.
What is a source of the floating ball? I will use fine mesh to keep it in
place. Also I put a single cutoff valve near left wing tank to prevent
backflow from right tank when I want to go with only 7 gallons aboard, so I
won't need to drain 2 tanks before trailering. WHERE IS RED BALL AVAILABLE?
In the future I am considering having an eight gallon tank made to go behind
the right seat. This will mean I will disconnect the right flaperon control
when folding wings. Any comments on that idea? Do not archive
Ed Gray KII 582 GSC Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 1:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 10/27/09
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
09-10-27&Archive=Kitfox
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2009-10-27&Archive=Kitfox
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Tue 10/27/09: 21
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:09 AM - Re: Rotax 582 thermostat (dave)
2. 03:30 AM - Rotax 582 thermostat (fox5flyer)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: Fuel pressure sensor (Tucsonchris)
4. 07:41 AM - Re: Fuel pressure sensor (Roger Lee)
5. 07:44 AM - Re: Rotax 582 thermostat (akflyer)
6. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure (Rueb,
Duane)
7. 08:44 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Mark Napier (napierm))
8. 09:20 AM - Leaky Header tank (DanM)
9. 10:12 AM - Re: Leaky Header tank (Guy Buchanan)
10. 10:24 AM - Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure (FlyboyTR)
11. 11:16 AM - Re: Window Installation (Cwehner)
12. 11:16 AM - Re: Leaky Header tank (Patrick Reilly)
13. 11:33 AM - Re: Leaky Header tank (DanM)
14. 12:07 PM - Re: Leaky Header tank (jdmcbean)
15. 01:22 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (FlyboyTR)
16. 01:28 PM - lexan or plexaglass,what size 060 (Lowell Fitt)
17. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: 582 Ignition (Marco Menezes)
18. 02:09 PM - Re: Leaky Header tank (Marco Menezes)
19. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Rueb, Duane)
20. 02:35 PM - Re: Leaky Header tank (DanM)
21. 04:05 PM - Re: Re: Leaky Header tank (Patrick Reilly)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 02:09:17 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 thermostat
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Off course you can read the internet or just ask for a professional opinion.
Dave
What I tried to say to Gary (not clear enough I guess) is that the
thermostats
function in the Rotax is different than that of your car.
In a automotive engine, the thermostat is used to regulate the operating
temperature
in the engine. They are set at a high temp and open only when the engine
gets to operating temperature. The thermostat will open and close regulating
the temperature.
In the Rotax it is the radiator and air ducting that is supposed to control
the
operating temperature of the engine.
The thermostat's only function should be to allow a quicker warm up by
blocking
the coolant flow. Once the coolant temps are above 140 degrees ( still not
at
operating temps though ) the thermostat opens and stays open for the entire
time
of the engine runs.
just my two cents
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Salmon Arm, B.C.
Phone: 250-832-8786 (tech support)
Phone: 866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE Order line)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269618#269618
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 03:30:11 AM PST US
From: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 thermostat
I put 400 hours on my gray head with that Tstat. Worked for me. If I
recall correctly it required drilling the weep holes. It was 160F. I don't
know about the blue head though.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
>
> At 05:22 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote:
>>NAPA Part # is 18-3670
>
> Deke,
> Check out
> http://www.airtalk.org/help-needed-582-overheating-vt50456.html. Is this
> thread pertinent? I also wondered whether anyone on the list had success
> using the 160F aftermarket thermostat. It makes more sense than the 135F
> Rotax sells.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 07:22:27 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel pressure sensor
From: "Tucsonchris" <gallchrisa@qwest.net>
I would like to see those pictures as well....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269646#269646
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:41:08 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel pressure sensor
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Hi Chris,
If you live in Tucson why don't you come out to Ryan Airfield some day and
I'll
show you different spots and the pros and cons of each. My number is listed
below. This is a really easy install.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269647#269647
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 07:44:30 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 thermostat
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
I have that Tstat in 4 different engines around here, with no issues.
Summer temps
run 150-175 winter temps 140 or so.
Dave, your not the only one that flys behind a 582, many other also have
PERSONAL
experience. While you are a rotax "dealer" you are not the worlds leading
authority on all things rotax or kitfox. While you intentions may be good,
you
come across more as a P3ck3r head than a good resource for info. (yeah I
know
I can be the same way but I have tried to tone it down a bit... mine is in
humor,
your seems to be in arrogance.
These planes and engines are "experimental" and as such, we dont have to use
only
manufacture overpriced parts. That is the beauty of these planes. If I can
save 100 bucks on a Tstat, that is 100 I can put into the tank and get more
enjoyment out of my plane.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269648#269648
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 08:13:35 AM PST US
From: "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
Maxwell:
What is the symptom or mode of failure of this coupling?
Duane, Kitfox Safari 240
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W Duke
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
It uses the same coupler but I hope the lighter weight and lower amperage a
lternator will be less likely to fry it. In my research I have found that
there is an older style coupler that was used in the o200 for years. It wi
ll work but... If it were to fail or the alternator seized there are poten
tially bits of metal in the engine case. Therefore the "wisdom" is if/when
the elastomer fails-no bits of metal. The cost to buy the older style coup
ler was similar to a rebuild of the elastomeric one so that is what I did.
I changed alternators because: I believe it can be removed without pullin
g the engine and it is over 6 pounds lighter. Added benefit that I did not
realize is that the nut on the back can be used to check the torque slippa
ge of the coupler per the service bulletin for 500 hr checks. Although my
first one did not quite make it to 500 hrs.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Mon, 10/26/09, FlyboyTR <flyboytr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: FlyboyTR <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
//us.mc520.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=flyboytr@bellsouth.net>>
Maxwell,
Did you change to the lighter weight alternator because of the failed coupl
ing? What type of coupling does the new alternator use?
I found the thread I started when my coupler failed in Nov 06. http://foru
ms.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77593 Now...three years later...here we
go again. If a new style alternator would provide an improvement in the c
oupling...I would certainly be interested in changing to a different altern
ator.
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewf="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kit
fox-List" target=_blank>http:/sp; --> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewt
opic.php?p=269461#269461>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 08:44:56 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Fuel Flow Problems, Again!
From: "Mark Napier (napierm)" <napierm@cisco.com>
Hey Travis,
The Rotax part number is 414-3636. The shape of the thing has changed
since I bought it last but I suppose the function is the same.
http://store.leadingedgeairfoils.com/index.php?cPath=548_436_447
The gasket around the tank is a Mercedes Benz fuel cap gasket #
140-471-00-79 seal ring. It should be somewhat pliable.
I'm changing my fuel system over to the current KF one for the KF IV
fuse I'm working on now. I did use a pump to establish flow though my
filter but the problem was the location the header tank. At takeoff it
wasn't "downhill" from the wing tanks.
The fuel management for my KF III was "interesting". It had a metal
header tank mounted behind the instrument panel at the fire-wall. The
vent line from the header had a large diameter, short length Tygon tube
that ran just over the glare shield with a floating red ball in it to
improve visibility and then a smaller 5/16" diameter hose ran up to vent
into the right tank. The 5/16" diameter wing tank fuel lines went over
to two over-head fuel cutoff valves and then teed together. Then
through a filter and down a line under the left door that fed a fuel
pump up under the panel. The fuel pump had a bypass one-way valve
around it and both fed into the header tank. Finally there was a fuel
cutoff valve from the header tank that fed a fire-wall forward mounted
gascolator.
So what you did was select a tank and turn on the pump. It would suck
fuel through the tee and filter and push into the header and from there
back up into the right tank through the header vent line. In level
flight the fuel would flow normally w/o the pump. The red ball would
witness the fuel in the vent line. I used the left tank for range only.
As it got low I would turn on the pump, select the left tank only and
put the rest of the fuel into the right tank through the vent line and
use a little left rudder to get the last of it. The right tank only is
selected for take-off and landing and the pump is on. This works well
since I always slip in using right rudder. I rarely if ever run with
both tanks selected.
The down side it that I did need that pump. I took off a few times and
forgot to turn it on. Then I would look at that empty vent line right
in front of me and practically break my finger on the switch turning the
pump on.
It sounds complicated and it was but I got used to it. The system was
completely reliable as long as the human element worked right.
Modifying the fuel system is considered a major change so I flew it "as
is". Add to that the HACMan leaning adjustment that I fiddled with
occasionally to keep the EGT's at around 1100. And the 6 gallons per
hour it took for the 582 to push the KF III to ~87mph.
So I'm looking forward to flying the HKS with the simpler set up and
much lower fuel burn even if it is no faster.
Cheers,
Mark Napier
-------------------------------------------------------------
Time: 01:31:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! From:
"FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Mark,
What is the part number on the fuel filter. What is the element
made of?
I don't think my fuel cap gaskets are leaking. I can blow through
the vent and
don't hear air escaping. However...the gaskets are fairly
hard..but appear to
fit tight. Thanks!
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269545#269545
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Napier (napierm)
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: Fuel Flow Problems, Again!
Hey Travis,
On advice from Tom Olenik I run the Rotax brand fuel filters. They are
big white plastic things. They are very high flow/low head loss and
won't block due to water.
If the filters/hoses are OK and the vent line has no obstruction then I
would check your tank caps. The gaskets are not hard and make a good
seal?
I can't think of anything else. If you make it a fly-in around Atlanta
please let me know; I would like to see your bird.
Good luck,
Mark Napier
Time: 05:55:37 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
We just returned from an 800 mile trip to our favorite flying
destination, High
Valley Resort in north GA. We developed a fuel flow problem while
enroute.
A little history. Two years ago I had a fuel flow problem (actually on
the same
trip!) that was caused by my new paper filters (located between the wing
tanks
and the header tank) air locking and not allowing fuel to flow. We
completed
the trip using just one tank. After returning home, I discovered that
if I
blew up through the fuel line, causing the filter to fill with air, it
would
not gravity flow! After either sucking on the line ( or blowing on the
gas cap
vent tube) to force the fuel to flow, it would flow without restriction.
This
was repeated numerous times, on both tanks with the exact same results!
The
filters had been replaced just prior to this event. This was also
tested with
new filters with the same results. After that, I returned to using the
filters
with the glass sight tubes.
OKpresent day... I filled both tanks to the brim prior to our 400 mile,
one way,
flight. After about 45 minutes Kathy noticed there was no fuel in the
header
tank vent line. The right tank level was low and the left one was full
(could
not see the fuel levelabove the sight gauge). We checked and both fuel
valves
were on and we cycled them several times. I reduced power to the engine
and set it up lean of peak to reduce the fuel flow. Shortly, fuel
appeared in
the vent tube (yes that was a relief!). Fortunately we were at 9,500,
talking
the Atlanta Center and had an airport with easy gliding distance (which
also
provided some peace of mind).
After going back to full cruise power, the fuel level in the vent line
started
dropping. We turned the working tank off, pinched the vent line so it
would force,
hopefully, the fuel in the right tank to be sucked. After a few
seconds,
the left tank filter (which was filed with air) starting showing some
fuel movement
and slowly filled about way. I kept the vent line pinched for about
a minute. Fuel flow was established on the left tank, but still not
enough to
fill the vent line. I turned the right tank back on and the vent line
filled.
I closed it again and then slowly opened it to allow partial flow and
kept
the fuel level in the vent line visible for about 30 minutes. After
several gallons
of fuel was pulled from the left tank, I opened the right valve
completely
and the vent tube filled. After that fuel flowed from both tanks and
was
not a problem.
Heading Home We stopped for fuel while heading home. This time the
same thing
happened, except the tanks were reversed! Right tank would not flow.
We did
the same thingpinching off the vent line and forcing the system to suck
from
the non-flowing tank. Again, this was met with success.
I am at a complete loss! The vent lines on the gas caps are open
(checked with
each fill-up and also with a pipe cleaner, etc). All my flexible fuel
lines
are 3/8 marine grade lines (vent line is clear Tygon). No lines are
pinched.
Once flowing, they flow with no restriction. There are no loops, etc in
any
of the lines. I would appreciate any helpful information regarding this
problem!
AlsoOn the return leg home this afternoonMy charging system went out! I
just hope
it's not another alternator coupling/clutch thats gone bad!
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269410#269410
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 09:20:51 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky Header tank
From: "DanM" <danm@powerdesignelectric.com>
I may need to change my header tank in my model iv because of a problem leak
at
the bottom fitting bushing. I think the threads were tapped to deep or I may
have tightened to much. My question; is the rotational molded tank from
Kitfox
the way to go or are there other options? Does the Kitfox tank have the
brass
fitting molded in?
Thanks for your opinions in advance, this problem is holding up my first
flight.
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox IV , Ready for 1st Flight
Jabiru 2200 , 2.0 hours
Sensenich 62x46
N443DM
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269662#269662
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 10:12:59 AM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky Header tank
At 09:18 AM 10/27/2009, you wrote:
>My question; is the rotational molded tank from Kitfox the way to go
>or are there other options? Does the Kitfox tank have the brass
>fitting molded in?
Dan,
It's OK. There are bosses molded in for some of the
hardware, but not all, but there are no threads molded in. If you do
buy one, I recommend installing brass adapters for every fitting and
installing them with 2-part polysulfide sealant. That way you can
install and remove fittings without exercising the threads in the
polyethylene. Some look for larger header tanks. I think Murle
Williams still makes an aluminum one.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 10:24:22 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Duane,
On my two failures, it showed up in flight and I got a low voltage warning.
When
both of mine failed, it was like the alternator was no longer connected to
the engine. Inspection on the ground reveals that if you attempt to move
the
alternators internal cooling fan, it would free-spin (thus the alternator is
turning).
Moving the propeller does not turn the alternator.
The coupling is like a clutch. When it fails, it basically (or
mechanically) separates
the alternator from the drive gear. It's function is to protect the
engine. If the alternator bearings, etc failed and it locked up, the
coupling
will fail and thus will not stop the engine from running! Click on my old
thread
(link is above). At the bottom I have several pictures that show the unit
and the failure is easy to spot.
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269669#269669
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 11:16:29 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Window Installation
From: "Cwehner" <1cewehner@cox.net>
We finished up the doors and windows recently and decided to go with
rivnuts. worked
out extremely well. They worke great on the round tube. The round tube helps
from the stand point of once the rivnut conforms to the inside of the tube
the Can't ever turn out. heres some pics...
--------
Chris Wehner
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Kitfox IV, 912, Final push for completion!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269671#269671
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4790_119.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4465_181.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4447_211.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4441_182.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4440_252.jpg
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 11:16:29 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky Header tank
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Dan, Have you tried using thread sealer, the gasoline resistant, red, hard
drying type. It will fill threads that are fairly large. It is hard to get
threads to seal in plastic tanks without over tightening. I have had good
luck with the above type of sealer on loose threads in the plastic
header tank you are talking about..
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, OL
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:18 AM, DanM <danm@powerdesignelectric.com> wrote:
>
> I may need to change my header tank in my model iv because of a problem
> leak at the bottom fitting bushing. I think the threads were tapped to
deep
> or I may have tightened to much. My question; is the rotational molded
tank
> from Kitfox the way to go or are there other options? Does the Kitfox tank
> have the brass fitting molded in?
>
>
> Thanks for your opinions in advance, this problem is holding up my first
> flight.
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox IV , Ready for 1st Flight
> Jabiru 2200 , 2.0 hours
> Sensenich 62x46
> N443DM
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269662#269662
>
>
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 11:33:21 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Leaky Header tank
From: "DanM" <danm@powerdesignelectric.com>
thanks Pat, I've tried the liquid yellow type, it worked on all fittings
except
the bottom one. What's the Brand and product number for the stuff you are
talking
about?
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox IV , Ready for 1st Flight
Jabiru 2200 , 2.0 hours
Sensenich 62x46
N443DM
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269676#269676
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 12:07:02 PM PST US
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@kitfoxaircraft.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Leaky Header tank
We also offer an aluminum header tank.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky Header tank
At 09:18 AM 10/27/2009, you wrote:
>My question; is the rotational molded tank from Kitfox the way to go or
>are there other options? Does the Kitfox tank have the brass fitting
>molded in?
Dan,
It's OK. There are bosses molded in for some of the hardware, but
not all, but there are no threads molded in. If you do buy one, I recommend
installing brass adapters for every fitting and installing them with 2-part
polysulfide sealant. That way you can install and remove fittings without
exercising the threads in the polyethylene. Some look for larger header
tanks. I think Murle Williams still makes an aluminum one.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 01:22:32 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again!
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Mark,
Thanks for the info on the filters and fuel cap gasket. Even though testing
hasn't
shown any leaks in my fuel caps, I plan to replace them. My local autoparts
dealer is trying to round up a couple for me.
The fuel system on your III sounds a little confusing at first glance. Many
times
the human element can get us pilots in trouble...quickly!
Thanks again...
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269694#269694
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 01:28:30 PM PST US
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: lexan or plexaglass,what size 060
Don't use Plexiglass for hand making a windshield. Lexan is one companies
trade name for polycarbonate. I have always used the .060 as it is easier
to form around the wing spar area. I have had a little movement of the
windshield at high speeds - near redline on the Model IV, but it suits my
purposed perfectly.
LowellLowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Second Build Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Building up right wing
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cmflyboy12@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: F210 reading very HIGH
> wants the best for windsheild,lexan or plexaglass,what size 060
>
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 01:56:49 PM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Ignition
Then why two coils and four plugs? Might as well install a 583 "red head,"
no? Just asking. They're alot cheaper.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Sat, 10/24/09, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Ignition
yes we have no bananas--- the system is not redundant-- malcolm
Malcolm Brubaker
Michigan Sport
Pilot Repair
LSRM-A
(989)513-3022
--- On Sat, 10/24/09, Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
From: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Ignition
> Note: the kill switches are hooked up to the transistors in what they cal
l
> the transducers. ( I look at them as triggered secondary coils) The actua
l
> magneto coil powering the transducers is common to both sets of plugs. A
> short in that coil "LC" will definitely stop your engine. Check dia2 pg 7
2
I believe there are two separate coils that make up the transducer supply w
indings (LC-1 and LC-2).- Each one of these charges each Transducer (the
automobile looking coils on the outside with the spark plug wires).- each
transducer fires a plug in each cylinder.- Am I confused, I hope not or
the ignition is not truly redundant.[/b]
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269195#26919ttp://www.matroni
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________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 02:09:52 PM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky Header tank
Ditto Pat and Guy's observations Dan. I drilled my header for a float-type
low fuel sensor. Had to monkey with it for awhile until it stopped leaking.
I used a fuel proof thread sealer to seal brass bushing to the poly. Senso
r screws into the bushing. No leaks now.
-
At one point I almost gave up on the tank, went so far as to purchase a new
tank from Skystar. That one's in Pat's airplane now.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3: 1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 10/27/09, Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky Header tank
Dan, Have you tried using thread sealer, the gasoline resistant,-red, har
d drying type. It will fill threads that are fairly large. It is hard to ge
t threads to seal in plastic tanks without over tightening. I have had good
luck with the above-type of sealer on loose threads-in the plastic hea
der-tank you are talking about..
-
Pat-Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, OL
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:18 AM, DanM <danm@powerdesignelectric.com> wrote
:
I may need to change my header tank in my model iv because of a problem lea
k at the bottom fitting bushing. I think the threads were tapped to deep or
I may have tightened to much. -My question; is the rotational molded tan
k from Kitfox the way to go or are there other options? Does the Kitfox tan
k have the brass fitting molded in?
Thanks for your opinions in advance, this problem is holding up my first fl
ight.
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox IV , Ready for 1st Flight
Jabiru 2200 , 2.0 hours
Sensenich 62x46
N443DM
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269662#269662
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________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
Time: 02:32:07 PM PST US
From: "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Fuel Flow Problems, Again!
Travis:
Your story is one that gives me the puckers. As we all know, fuel
system problems
are the major malfunctions that cause accidents in light aircraft. I would
strongly recommend eliminating the filters that are up high in the system.
There is such a low head pressure up there that any resistance to flow is
too
much. Filters do have a pressure drop across them and great care needs to
be
used to place them in a system where that drop is not a problem. If they are
large this is not as important as the drop due to the material used. Large
only
counts for a large capacity to store debris and for large fuel flows; not
helping
much if any for initial conduction of flow.
I would leave the valves in place (since they are already there) and
either not
put any more filters in the system than the one at the front of the engine,
or if you insist on another one, put it on the output side of your starting
pump.
You will then have two filters in series, with the first one being out of
sight unless the seat is removed, which should tell something about the need
for
it. While glass is tempting to think about, remember that the glass gas
collators
that we used to have on our old factory jobs with carburetors were of
a very well thought out design, quite sturdy (the glass is tempered and
thick)
and placed just in front of the carb where there is room for a nice big
glass
thing. It had a very low pressure drop and due to its effective mesh size
and
configuration, had a pretty high capacity for debris. We didn't drain it
every
time we flew, but used it as an indicator of our fuel quality. It is also in
front of the fire wall and definitely not in the cabin, so we could look at
it when doing things up front. Our fuel system is rather large in the
cabin,
which is not the greatest thing to have, but necessary due to the folding
wing
idea. And since it is inside where we ride, I recommend making as few
connections
in our fuel systems as necessary and inspecting that system regularly, even
more often than I do. (I will take note of this)
Some of that inspection occurs easily due to either the presence of
or lack of
fumes. If no fumes, no leaks in the cabin, but we still need to look at the
lines
that are covered with a sleeve to inspect the flex portion for impending
cracks or anything that doesn't look good about them, remembering how that
we
have had the experience in cars that one day no leaks, the next day leaks
and
when we found them we said wow, how did I not notice how bad this line was?!
Have you checked the finger strainers in the tanks? I am planning
to do this
at this annual and then to rig a vacuum system to pull any debris off of
them
and from anywhere else I may find it. Please remember to be careful when
doing
this inspection to use a non-sparking light, and non sparking vacuum tools
as
well. Of course, you will make sure that the tank is drained and have
enough
vacuum hose to not have the vacuum motor close to the tanks. While I write
this to you, I am also talking to myself and everyone on the list so that I
(we)
will think before doing something dumb and regrettable. Fuel is highly
flammable.
It won't hurt all of us to review our fuel system and methods for working
on them, and if I have missed something important, please someone chime in.
I am also very aware of the fact that our kitfox factory has great
experience
and advice and the proper parts to use on our aircraft and I do also
recommend
supporting them by using their parts and wisdom.
Sorry to hear of still another alternator problem, and I would appreciate
learning
what failed.
I hope to hear a report soon that speaks of a beautifully flowing fuel
system in
your bird, and my intent is to inspire all of us to turn up the gain on our
fuel system awareness, please do not take this as a critical lecture. It is
kind
of an open letter on our fuel system in our delightful little sky toys.
Sincerely, and warmly, Duane Rueb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Napier
(napierm)
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:42 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Fuel Flow Problems, Again!
Hey Travis,
The Rotax part number is 414-3636. The shape of the thing has changed
since I bought it last but I suppose the function is the same.
http://store.leadingedgeairfoils.com/index.php?cPath=548_436_447
The gasket around the tank is a Mercedes Benz fuel cap gasket #
140-471-00-79 seal ring. It should be somewhat pliable.
I'm changing my fuel system over to the current KF one for the KF IV
fuse I'm working on now. I did use a pump to establish flow though my
filter but the problem was the location the header tank. At takeoff it
wasn't "downhill" from the wing tanks.
The fuel management for my KF III was "interesting". It had a metal
header tank mounted behind the instrument panel at the fire-wall. The
vent line from the header had a large diameter, short length Tygon tube
that ran just over the glare shield with a floating red ball in it to
improve visibility and then a smaller 5/16" diameter hose ran up to vent
into the right tank. The 5/16" diameter wing tank fuel lines went over
to two over-head fuel cutoff valves and then teed together. Then
through a filter and down a line under the left door that fed a fuel
pump up under the panel. The fuel pump had a bypass one-way valve
around it and both fed into the header tank. Finally there was a fuel
cutoff valve from the header tank that fed a fire-wall forward mounted
gascolator.
So what you did was select a tank and turn on the pump. It would suck
fuel through the tee and filter and push into the header and from there
back up into the right tank through the header vent line. In level
flight the fuel would flow normally w/o the pump. The red ball would
witness the fuel in the vent line. I used the left tank for range only.
As it got low I would turn on the pump, select the left tank only and
put the rest of the fuel into the right tank through the vent line and
use a little left rudder to get the last of it. The right tank only is
selected for take-off and landing and the pump is on. This works well
since I always slip in using right rudder. I rarely if ever run with
both tanks selected.
The down side it that I did need that pump. I took off a few times and
forgot to turn it on. Then I would look at that empty vent line right
in front of me and practically break my finger on the switch turning the
pump on.
It sounds complicated and it was but I got used to it. The system was
completely reliable as long as the human element worked right.
Modifying the fuel system is considered a major change so I flew it "as
is". Add to that the HACMan leaning adjustment that I fiddled with
occasionally to keep the EGT's at around 1100. And the 6 gallons per
hour it took for the 582 to push the KF III to ~87mph.
So I'm looking forward to flying the HKS with the simpler set up and
much lower fuel burn even if it is no faster.
Cheers,
Mark Napier
-------------------------------------------------------------
Time: 01:31:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! From:
"FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Mark,
What is the part number on the fuel filter. What is the element
made of?
I don't think my fuel cap gaskets are leaking. I can blow through
the vent and
don't hear air escaping. However...the gaskets are fairly
hard..but appear to
fit tight. Thanks!
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269545#269545
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Napier (napierm)
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: Fuel Flow Problems, Again!
Hey Travis,
On advice from Tom Olenik I run the Rotax brand fuel filters. They are
big white plastic things. They are very high flow/low head loss and
won't block due to water.
If the filters/hoses are OK and the vent line has no obstruction then I
would check your tank caps. The gaskets are not hard and make a good
seal?
I can't think of anything else. If you make it a fly-in around Atlanta
please let me know; I would like to see your bird.
Good luck,
Mark Napier
Time: 05:55:37 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
We just returned from an 800 mile trip to our favorite flying
destination, High
Valley Resort in north GA. We developed a fuel flow problem while
enroute.
A little history. Two years ago I had a fuel flow problem (actually on
the same
trip!) that was caused by my new paper filters (located between the wing
tanks
and the header tank) air locking and not allowing fuel to flow. We
completed
the trip using just one tank. After returning home, I discovered that
if I
blew up through the fuel line, causing the filter to fill with air, it
would
not gravity flow! After either sucking on the line ( or blowing on the
gas cap
vent tube) to force the fuel to flow, it would flow without restriction.
This
was repeated numerous times, on both tanks with the exact same results!
The
filters had been replaced just prior to this event. This was also
tested with
new filters with the same results. After that, I returned to using the
filters
with the glass sight tubes.
OKpresent day... I filled both tanks to the brim prior to our 400 mile,
one way,
flight. After about 45 minutes Kathy noticed there was no fuel in the
header
tank vent line. The right tank level was low and the left one was full
(could
not see the fuel levelabove the sight gauge). We checked and both fuel
valves
were on and we cycled them several times. I reduced power to the engine
and set it up lean of peak to reduce the fuel flow. Shortly, fuel
appeared in
the vent tube (yes that was a relief!). Fortunately we were at 9,500,
talking
the Atlanta Center and had an airport with easy gliding distance (which
also
provided some peace of mind).
After going back to full cruise power, the fuel level in the vent line
started
dropping. We turned the working tank off, pinched the vent line so it
would force,
hopefully, the fuel in the right tank to be sucked. After a few
seconds,
the left tank filter (which was filed with air) starting showing some
fuel movement
and slowly filled about way. I kept the vent line pinched for about
a minute. Fuel flow was established on the left tank, but still not
enough to
fill the vent line. I turned the right tank back on and the vent line
filled.
I closed it again and then slowly opened it to allow partial flow and
kept
the fuel level in the vent line visible for about 30 minutes. After
several gallons
of fuel was pulled from the left tank, I opened the right valve
completely
and the vent tube filled. After that fuel flowed from both tanks and
was
not a problem.
Heading Home We stopped for fuel while heading home. This time the
same thing
happened, except the tanks were reversed! Right tank would not flow.
We did
the same thingpinching off the vent line and forcing the system to suck
from
the non-flowing tank. Again, this was met with success.
I am at a complete loss! The vent lines on the gas caps are open
(checked with
each fill-up and also with a pipe cleaner, etc). All my flexible fuel
lines
are 3/8 marine grade lines (vent line is clear Tygon). No lines are
pinched.
Once flowing, they flow with no restriction. There are no loops, etc in
any
of the lines. I would appreciate any helpful information regarding this
problem!
AlsoOn the return leg home this afternoonMy charging system went out! I
just hope
it's not another alternator coupling/clutch thats gone bad!
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269410#269410
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 02:35:22 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Leaky Header tank
From: "DanM" <danm@powerdesignelectric.com>
Marco, what the brand and product number you used on the threads?
Thanks
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox IV , Ready for 1st Flight
Jabiru 2200 , 2.0 hours
Sensenich 62x46
N443DM
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269711#269711
________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
Time: 04:05:47 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Leaky Header tank
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Dan, I will try to remember to look at the tube I have day after tomorrow at
the hanger. I need a new tube. I'm almost out. You can find it at any
automotive parts store or discount that sells automotive products. I think
it is a Permatex product.
Pat Reilly
Model 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 1:28 PM, DanM <danm@powerdesignelectric.com> wrote:
>
> thanks Pat, I've tried the liquid yellow type, it worked on all fittings
> except the bottom one. What's the Brand and product number for the stuff
you
> are talking about?
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox IV , Ready for 1st Flight
> Jabiru 2200 , 2.0 hours
> Sensenich 62x46
> N443DM
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269676#269676
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
The coupler is a metal "cup" with some sort of "elastomer" pressed into it.
- When it fails the elastomer slips inside the cup and the alternator doe
s not spin.--The 500 hour-service bulletin requires, I think, no slip
page at 100 inch pounds.- I think Danny Melnick actually had the elastome
r break apart on his-but I am not certain.- Mine did not break up.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Tue, 10/27/09, Rueb, Duane <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu> wrote:
From: Rueb, Duane <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
Maxwell:
-
What is the symptom or mode of failure of this coupling?-
-
Duane, Kitfox Safari 240-
-
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W Duke
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
-
It uses the same coupler but I hope the lighter weight and lower amperage a
lternator will be less likely to fry it.- In my research I have found tha
t there is an older style coupler that was used in the o200 for years.- I
t will work but...- If it were to fail or the alternator seized there are
potentially bits of metal in the engine-case.- Therefore the "wisdom"
is-if/when the elastomer fails-no bits of metal.-The cost to buy the ol
der style coupler was similar to a rebuild of the elastomeric one so that i
s what I did.- I changed alternators because:- I believe it can be remo
ved without pulling the engine and it is over 6 pounds lighter.- Added be
nefit that I did not realize is that the nut on the back can be used to che
ck the torque slippage of the coupler per the service bulletin for 500 hr c
hecks.- Although my first one did not quite make it to 500 hrs.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Mon, 10/26/09, FlyboyTR <flyboytr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: FlyboyTR <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
Maxwell,
Did you change to the lighter weight alternator because of the failed coupl
ing?- What type of coupling does the new alternator use?-
I found the thread I started when my coupler failed in Nov 06.- http://fo
rums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77593- Now...three years later...her
e we go again.- If a new style alternator would provide an improvement in
the coupling...I would certainly be interested in changing to a different
alternator.
Travis- ---:)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240,- Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
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fox-List" target=_blank>http:/sp;---->
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Duane and Travis-
I just measured my Purolator glass filters, and they are
12" (vertical measurement) from the bottoms of the wing tanks to the
tops of the filters. The fuel lines go through a ball valve
(installed for servicing the filters, and for shutting off a tank for
various reasons in-flight) and then the filters, and then to the
header tank. I have another similar filter just after the main fuel
(ball) valve. I had originally installed this one to catch any crap
that might get past the the other two, and not settle down in the
header tank (my "gascolator"), but now it's there to protect my
Northstar F210 fuel flow meter (which works great, by the way). The
last filter in my system is inside the Rotec TBI, and is called by
them, a "last chance" filter. Not including the last chance filter,
my system, (which is 95% 5/16" automotive fuel lines...30R7...and 5%
3/8" lines) flows over 13 gallons per hour, which is over *twice*
what is recommended for the maximum take-off fuel requirements for my
engine. Larger engines of course will require more fuel flow than
this, hence the 3/8" fuel lines that some builders use. So I'm having
trouble with the suggestion to avoid the glass filters (or any) at
that point, Duane. I'll admit that I got the idea for the location
from viewing another Kitfox, but in all the hours I've flown, I've
had no problem with their location, or any fuel flow through them,
admitting that they are 6" lower than Travis' location.
One thing about the Purolator glass filters, is that they should be
assembled and installed correctly. I just looked at some extras that
I have in the hangar, and it is possible to assemble them such that
the incoming fuel goes directly into the middle of the filter
cartridge, OUT through it, and then out the exit end of the filter.
This would reduce the capacity of the filter to hold junk by having
the *inside* of the filter cartridge trap the junk. The proper way is
for the fuel to flow into the "IN" end of the filter, surround the
filter medium, and go into it, leaving the junk trapped on the
outside of the cartridge where it is visible. I just changed my
filter cartridges a couple of weeks ago, and this was the first time
in three years of flying (800+ hours) that I've even had the filters
apart. Because I could *see* them, I knew their condition, and
because periodic checks of fuel flow RIGHT AT the point of connection
to the (then) Bing carb, or more recently the Rotec TBI, I knew the
whole system was flowing like it should for my application. My only
problem is making sure that there's enough fuel IN the tanks to
ensure that there will be flow OUT of the tanks. : )
And by the way, the Mr. Gasket version of the Purolator glass filters
leaves a lot to be desired. The NAPA ones seem to be OK from what I
see, comparing them to Purolators. The Mr. Gasket ones have plastic
"selective-size" fittings which screw into the end caps, and I don't
like them much. Try to get the ones that have the one-piece end caps.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 803.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--197 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 26, 2009, at 2:04 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
> My fuel configuration has remained virtually unchanged from the way
> is was when I purchased the Vixen from the builder. Yep...vent
> line from top of header tank to the top of the right wing tank. My
> fuel caps have the vent tube that is welded to the top of the cap.
> They both face forward and I blow through them each time I add
> fuel. They have also been checked with a pipe cleaner to ensure
> something wasn't hiding inside!
>
> My system has 4 filters. One on each fuel line from the wing tanks
> to the header tank, a larger sintered type (aluminum housing)
> filter just after the fuel leaves the header tank and the same
> filter again just before the fuel enters the engine driven fuel
> pump. The only changes I have made were replacing the in-line fuel
> valves with a "higher" flow valve than was originally installed.
> In September, during my conditional inspection, I replaced the
> filter elements (which flowed freely).
>
> Duane,...my Purolator filters are located rather high. ...Hadn't
> thought about that. After purchasing the plane 07/06, I replaced
> all the flexible fuel line. I did move the valves and filters
> higher (closer to the tank) to help protect them. Just
> guessing...the bottom of each filter is probably about 6" below the
> wing tank.
>
> Today I noted that my fuel lines (from the tanks to the header) do
> have some horizontal component to them (behind the seat)...not
> completely flat or uphill. I can shorten those lines to make the
> flow as vertical as possible.
>
> Odd thing is...the fuel problem is not consistent. It does seem to
> occur more frequently when I fill the fuel tanks "completely"
> up...but not always. It can be one tank...then the other...that
> has the flow problem.
>
> I don't remember checking the finger strainers in the tank. I will
> check those, just in case!
>
> Travis :)
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269517#269517
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Lynn,
My glass filters are the ones with the metal fittings on each end (not the plastic
ones). You're right...there is a big difference in quality. My fuel flow
is correct and flows to the "bowl", through the filter, then out the bottom.
A six inch difference in filter height isn't much...but when considering the limited
head pressure, I'm sure 6" makes a considerable difference.
At present I'm going to do four things (I'll do all of this while everything is
torn apart for the new alternator coupling) :( :
1, Lower the filters as low as safely possible and still visible,
2, Shorten the fuel lines to remove as much horizontal component as possible,
3, Replace the fuel cap gaskets (not leaking...but are hard,
4, Inspect the finger strainers.
I really like having a visual check of the fuel flow in the glass filters. Without
that, if you had a fuel issue, you wouldn't have any idea which side was
the problem...or where to start troubleshooting.
Fingerstrainers.... does the strainer come out with the fitting? I have seen strainers
that were integral to the tank and non-removable.
Again, thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions. I really look forward
to moving past this problem.
Travis :) :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269873#269873
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
My tanks have the finger strainers screwed right into the tank
itself....no step-down bushing is there on mine. The strainer sleeves
will come out with the fitting, if they're like mine. If yours has
two brass "fittings" at that location, it is because there is a brass
bushing that is meant to remain in the tank, and the finger strainer
itself. Removing the smaller of the two fittings and you'll have the
entire finger strainer in your hand. I removed mine a couple weeks
ago and found nothing trapped on it after three years of flying.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 803.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--197 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 28, 2009, at 2:44 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
> Lynn,
> My glass filters are the ones with the metal fittings on each end
> (not the plastic ones). You're right...there is a big difference
> in quality. My fuel flow is correct and flows to the "bowl",
> through the filter, then out the bottom.
>
> A six inch difference in filter height isn't much...but when
> considering the limited head pressure, I'm sure 6" makes a
> considerable difference.
>
> At present I'm going to do four things (I'll do all of this while
> everything is torn apart for the new alternator coupling) :( :
>
> 1, Lower the filters as low as safely possible and still visible,
> 2, Shorten the fuel lines to remove as much horizontal component as
> possible,
> 3, Replace the fuel cap gaskets (not leaking...but are hard,
> 4, Inspect the finger strainers.
>
> I really like having a visual check of the fuel flow in the glass
> filters. Without that, if you had a fuel issue, you wouldn't have
> any idea which side was the problem...or where to start
> troubleshooting.
>
> Fingerstrainers.... does the strainer come out with the fitting? I
> have seen strainers that were integral to the tank and non-removable.
>
> Again, thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions. I
> really look forward to moving past this problem.
>
> Travis :) :)
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269873#269873
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Oops, I goofed! My finger strainer is the largest of the two fittings
at the finger strainer location....the smallest is the fuel fitting
itself. (I forgot about the fuel line fitting) The largest is the
strainer, and there is no "bushing" on mine. Sorry 'bout that.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 803.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--197 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 28, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> My tanks have the finger strainers screwed right into the tank
> itself....no step-down bushing is there on mine. The strainer
> sleeves will come out with the fitting, if they're like mine. If
> yours has two brass "fittings" at that location, it is because
> there is a brass bushing that is meant to remain in the tank, and
> the finger strainer itself. Removing the smaller of the two
> fittings and you'll have the entire finger strainer in your hand. I
> removed mine a couple weeks ago and found nothing trapped on it
> after three years of flying.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 803.7 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--197 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Lynn,
Thanks! Shouldn't be a problem to check!
Travis
Lynn Matteson wrote:
> Oops, I goofed! My finger strainer is the largest of the two fittings
> at the finger strainer location....the smallest is the fuel fitting
> itself. (I forgot about the fuel line fitting) The largest is the
> strainer, and there is no "bushing" on mine. Sorry 'bout that.
>
> Lynn Matteson
>
[/quote] :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269882#269882
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| Subject: | Re: Camerin park CA |
Malcolm that is very nice for you to offer I live near there in Paradise ma
ybe I can fly over there to meet you I might not be able to go to dinner bu
t would love to meet you and talk about kitfoxs- let me know-- kitfox
555@sbcglobal.net
Jerry Evans
KitfoxII
Magalia Calif.
N582'er'
kitfox 555
--- On Wed, 10/28/09, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Camerin park CA
we will be in corning- CA in november 9 till the 13th for the rainbow cla
ss for PPS and WS and would like to take anyone on the list to diner that w
eek wile my wife and I are out there-- malcolm
Malcolm Brubaker
Michigan Sport
Pilot Repair
LSRM-A
(989)513-3022
--- On Tue, 10/27/09, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: lexan or plexaglass,what size 060
Don't use Plexiglass for hand making a windshield.- Lexan is one companie
s trade name for polycarbonate.- I have always used the .060 as it is eas
ier to form around the wing spar area.---I have had a little movement
of the windshield at high speeds - near redline on the Model IV, but it su
its my purposed perfectly.
LowellLowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Second Build Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Building up right wing
----- Original Message ----- From: <Cmflyboy12@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: F210 reading very HIGH
> wants the best for windsheild,lexan or plexaglass,what size- 060
>
nics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com
========================
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
I am a bit curious (maybe confused is a better word) here talking about head
height to the filters. It seems to me that if there were nothing below the
filter, this would be an accurate term. However, the fuel system remains
closed to the level of the header tank where it is vented and it would seem
to me that the total head of this system would be the height from the fuel
level in the tank to the level of the vent in the header tank. This would
be the same if it was six inch pipe, 3.8" tubing, no filters or valves or
lots of stuff in line. Granted the filters and valves and bends in the line
cause some resistance to fuel flow, but the head remains the same regardless
of what is in the line.
The weight of the fuel below the filter will suck on the fuel in the filter
as well as the fuel in above the filter pushing it down. This is how
siphons work.
Correct me if this idea is all wet.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Second Build Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Prepping the right wing for covering
----- Original Message -----
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:44 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
>
> Lynn,
> My glass filters are the ones with the metal fittings on each end (not the
> plastic ones). You're right...there is a big difference in quality. My
> fuel flow is correct and flows to the "bowl", through the filter, then out
> the bottom.
>
> A six inch difference in filter height isn't much...but when considering
> the limited head pressure, I'm sure 6" makes a considerable difference.
>
> At present I'm going to do four things (I'll do all of this while
> everything is torn apart for the new alternator coupling) :( :
>
> 1, Lower the filters as low as safely possible and still visible,
> 2, Shorten the fuel lines to remove as much horizontal component as
> possible,
> 3, Replace the fuel cap gaskets (not leaking...but are hard,
> 4, Inspect the finger strainers.
>
> I really like having a visual check of the fuel flow in the glass filters.
> Without that, if you had a fuel issue, you wouldn't have any idea which
> side was the problem...or where to start troubleshooting.
>
> Fingerstrainers.... does the strainer come out with the fitting? I have
> seen strainers that were integral to the tank and non-removable.
>
> Again, thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions. I really look
> forward to moving past this problem.
>
> Travis :) :)
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269873#269873
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Rod end to elevator horn question. |
We're doing the final rigging and fastening of the elevator, push-rod, etc on a
Kitfox IV. The manual and drawings show the rod-end and elevator control horn
being fastened with a Clevis bolt and shear nut. I would like to confirm a few
things:
1. there is NO washer used on this bolt and nut.
2. there is only about a single thread showing through the shear nut.
With the covering and elevator "stop bar", there is no way to get my torque wrench
on the shear nut for "proper" torquing so can someone give me their advise
on how tight this nut should be. I've got a pretty good feel for 20-25 in/lbs.
is that sufficient?
and lastly what is the best way to get a flat head screw driver on the clevis bolt?
doesn't seem to be a good way to get to it with the covering and "stop bar"
in the way.
Thanks for any help.
--------
Chris Wehner
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Kitfox IV, 912, Final push for completion!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269948#269948
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