Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
2. 01:16 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
3. 01:19 PM - Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure (FlyboyTR)
4. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
5. 03:38 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
6. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (fox5flyer)
7. 05:07 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
8. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (fox5flyer)
9. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
10. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
11. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lowell Fitt)
12. 09:03 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
13. 09:11 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
OK, I have made changes to the fuel filter locations and reduced the extra hose
to allow for a more direct flow to the header tank.
I also installed an on/off valve in the header tank vent line. If by chance the
system air-locks...at least now I can close the vent line and force the system
to pull from the tanks, rather than sucking air.
I folded the wing to check the finger strainers. I was unable to remove the 90
fitting (see picture). To do do would mean I would have to cut the fabric in
the bottom of the wing. Any suggestions? does this look like the KF setup?
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270258#270258
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_2_205.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_1_210.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_8_324.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_5_120.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Since this (my original post) was duplicated, I am bumping it so the original post/problem
remains close to the thread that is being responded to. :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270259#270259
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| Subject: | Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
Maxwell,
Where are you ordering your coupling? The best price I've found so far on a rebuilt
unit is $525.
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270260#270260
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
I would use a Dremel tool and cut off the "bent" part of the fitting,
remove the fitting and replace it with a straight fitting if at all
possible.
It looks to me like the tank outlet in your number "210" photo is
several inches more forward than my Model IV, but maybe that's
standard for the Vixen. The IV instructions had me cutting a notch in
the rib (my tank outlet is at the very rear of the tank) so that a
straight fitting could be screwed straight into the finger strainer
fitting. Looks like they went with a center-feed tank in those models.
Some folks just don't think far enough ahead when they are building,
as to allow for servicing the plane down the road, and your builder
was probably one of those. Maybe the instructions called for a 90-
degree fitting....if so, then the instructions didn't think far
enough ahead in my sometimes not very humble opinion. Ok, I'll quit
griping. How about cutting the 90-degree portion of the fitting off
*just* a little bit so you can rotate the fitting out of the finger
strainer. Maybe you just need to depress the fabric a little
bit....possibly laying a length of thin plastic under the fitting
where it would rub on the fabric every time it rotated towards the
bottom as you remove it.
When I suggested cutting off some of the "bent" portion of the
fitting, I recall that some of these fittings have more than
necessary length, and can be shortened. I would look for the "bulb-
ended" fittings rather than the "barbed" fittings. In my experience,
the bulb-ended are shorter than the barb-ended fittings, and will
allow for removal of the hose without totally destroying the hose.
I can't understand why your system would suck air....it pulls from
the bottom (or very near the bottom) of the header tank, doesn't it?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:07 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
> OK, I have made changes to the fuel filter locations and reduced
> the extra hose to allow for a more direct flow to the header tank.
>
> I also installed an on/off valve in the header tank vent line. If
> by chance the system air-locks...at least now I can close the vent
> line and force the system to pull from the tanks, rather than
> sucking air.
>
> I folded the wing to check the finger strainers. I was unable to
> remove the 90 fitting (see picture). To do do would mean I would
> have to cut the fabric in the bottom of the wing. Any
> suggestions? does this look like the KF setup?
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270258#270258
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_2_205.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_1_210.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_8_324.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_5_120.jpg
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Lynn,
I am considering cutting the fitting as you suggested. However, looking at it,
I really don't believe there is a finger strainer there! I guess I need to check
the builders log and see if the rib should be cut down. The fuel line is
about 3/4" higher than the fitting.
Note...My system is NOT sucking air! This last problem happened about 35 minutes
flight time after both tanks were filled to the brim for a 400 mile flight.
I get air in my filters and they are AIR LOCKING...sort of like a vapor lock.
Don't know where the air comes from! This problem doesn't happen very ofter...but
when it does the fuel stops flowing. Once I get the fuel to flow again,
the air gets pushed out/down and all is well...until the next time it happens.
Thanks again for the plastic under the fitting trick!
OH...are there finger strainers still available for purchase?
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270276#270276
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Travis, that thing that looks like a brass bushing in your tank (the thing
that your 90 degree fitting screws into) is probably your finger strainer.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
>
> Lynn,
> I am considering cutting the fitting as you suggested. However, looking
> at it, I really don't believe there is a finger strainer there! I guess I
> need to check the builders log and see if the rib should be cut down. The
> fuel line is about 3/4" higher than the fitting.
>
> Note...My system is NOT sucking air! This last problem happened about 35
> minutes flight time after both tanks were filled to the brim for a 400
> mile flight. I get air in my filters and they are AIR LOCKING...sort of
> like a vapor lock. Don't know where the air comes from! This problem
> doesn't happen very ofter...but when it does the fuel stops flowing. Once
> I get the fuel to flow again, the air gets pushed out/down and all is
> well...until the next time it happens.
>
> Thanks again for the plastic under the fitting trick!
> OH...are there finger strainers still available for purchase?
>
> Travis :)
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270276#270276
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Deke,
If that's the case, then I will be unscrewing it from the tank itself...not another
bushing? Is that right?
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270285#270285
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Correct.
D
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
>
> Deke,
> If that's the case, then I will be unscrewing it from the tank
> itself...not another bushing? Is that right?
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270285#270285
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Can you stick a mirror into the tank and see the fitting area? Or is
there a baffle in the way?
In the case of my tank(s), that outer brass IS the finger strainer,
like Deke suggested.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:03 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
> Deke,
> If that's the case, then I will be unscrewing it from the tank
> itself...not another bushing? Is that right?
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270285#270285
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Sorry, I got the notion that *you* thought it was sucking air after I
read this:
" If by chance the system air-locks...at least now I can close the
vent line and force the system to pull from the tanks, rather than
sucking air."
I see a bubble of air in my filters too, and I've seen this in almost
every glass filter fuel system that I've owned...which is
several....and in others that I've observed over the years. It never
seems to bother the fuel flow, it just seems to bother people who
look at it. Maybe that's why people like the filters that they can't
see into....you know....out of sight, out of mind. I've seen glass
filters standing almost straight up, like yours and mine, and I've
seen them laying on their side, like my third filter which lays
almost horizontally inside my center console. Seeing this air doesn't
bother me as gravity keeps the fuel flowing in my system, and fuel is
heavier than air, and a bubble of air isn't strong enough to keep the
fuel from falling downhill inside that filter.....IF there is
sufficient venting above to ALLOW the fuel to fall. If my brand of
physics is wrong, I'd like to know why I haven't had any fuel-flow-
related problems in over 800 hours and billions of gallons of
fuel....oh, wait, that's that guy in Canada that uses all that
fuel....let's says roughly 3200 gallons of fuel passed through the
system in that time.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 31, 2009, at 6:34 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
> Lynn,
> I am considering cutting the fitting as you suggested. However,
> looking at it, I really don't believe there is a finger strainer
> there! I guess I need to check the builders log and see if the rib
> should be cut down. The fuel line is about 3/4" higher than the
> fitting.
>
> Note...My system is NOT sucking air! This last problem happened
> about 35 minutes flight time after both tanks were filled to the
> brim for a 400 mile flight. I get air in my filters and they are
> AIR LOCKING...sort of like a vapor lock. Don't know where the air
> comes from! This problem doesn't happen very ofter...but when it
> does the fuel stops flowing. Once I get the fuel to flow again,
> the air gets pushed out/down and all is well...until the next time
> it happens.
>
> Thanks again for the plastic under the fitting trick!
> OH...are there finger strainers still available for purchase?
>
> Travis :)
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270276#270276
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
The more centric feed location was intended to reduce the tendency to unport
in long descents. The T is to direct the fuel line aft to position the fuel
line for wing folding.
There was discussion on the list about this issue when this mod came down.
Some put inspection plates under the fitting. I can agree that the mod
helped in one area and hurt in another. I guess the unintended consequences
thing.
:Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
>
> I would use a Dremel tool and cut off the "bent" part of the fitting,
> remove the fitting and replace it with a straight fitting if at all
> possible.
> It looks to me like the tank outlet in your number "210" photo is several
> inches more forward than my Model IV, but maybe that's standard for the
> Vixen. The IV instructions had me cutting a notch in the rib (my tank
> outlet is at the very rear of the tank) so that a straight fitting could
> be screwed straight into the finger strainer fitting. Looks like they
> went with a center-feed tank in those models.
>
> Some folks just don't think far enough ahead when they are building, as
> to allow for servicing the plane down the road, and your builder was
> probably one of those. Maybe the instructions called for a 90- degree
> fitting....if so, then the instructions didn't think far enough ahead in
> my sometimes not very humble opinion. Ok, I'll quit griping. How about
> cutting the 90-degree portion of the fitting off *just* a little bit so
> you can rotate the fitting out of the finger strainer. Maybe you just
> need to depress the fabric a little bit....possibly laying a length of
> thin plastic under the fitting where it would rub on the fabric every
> time it rotated towards the bottom as you remove it.
> When I suggested cutting off some of the "bent" portion of the fitting, I
> recall that some of these fittings have more than necessary length, and
> can be shortened. I would look for the "bulb- ended" fittings rather than
> the "barbed" fittings. In my experience, the bulb-ended are shorter than
> the barb-ended fittings, and will allow for removal of the hose without
> totally destroying the hose.
>
> I can't understand why your system would suck air....it pulls from the
> bottom (or very near the bottom) of the header tank, doesn't it?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:07 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, I have made changes to the fuel filter locations and reduced the
>> extra hose to allow for a more direct flow to the header tank.
>>
>> I also installed an on/off valve in the header tank vent line. If by
>> chance the system air-locks...at least now I can close the vent line and
>> force the system to pull from the tanks, rather than sucking air.
>>
>> I folded the wing to check the finger strainers. I was unable to remove
>> the 90 fitting (see picture). To do do would mean I would have to cut
>> the fabric in the bottom of the wing. Any suggestions? does this look
>> like the KF setup?
>>
>> --------
>> Travis Rayner
>> Mobile, AL
>> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
>> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
>> ADI-II Autopilot
>> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270258#270258
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_2_205.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_1_210.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_8_324.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vixen_fuel_system_5_120.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Lynn,
This problem happens, usually, when my tanks are more than 1/2 - 3/4 full. To
my knowledge I've never "unported" the tank by descending at such an angle that
the fuel moves away from the outlet.
As so often happens on this forum, someone will reply to a post by starting a new
post with the same title (as happened to this thread). If you haven't read
my original post, please take a look. :D I tried to explain the details and
history of this problem that comes and goes...I would prefer for it to go! [Laughing]
Once I'm back in the air...should this happen again, I will remove the filter element
but keep the glass filter housing in place for observation.
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270317#270317
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Sorry...I missed that... No, I have baffles in the tank. Can't see that area
of the tank. ...which I could! :?
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270320#270320
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