Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:18 AM - PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! (Frank Miles)
3. 05:47 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
4. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
5. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (fox5flyer)
6. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
7. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
8. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Guy Buchanan)
9. 10:50 AM - Ducatti 582 Ignition needed (jareds)
10. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (jareds@verizon.net)
11. 12:44 PM - Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (jareds@verizon.net)
12. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Dwight Purdy)
13. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
14. 06:38 PM - Fuel flow issues (Lowell FITT)
15. 06:59 PM - 2 pictures for you (Ed Gray)
16. 07:49 PM - Re: 2 pictures for you (carlisle)
17. 08:32 PM - Newbie mistake - pulled the sump plug to drain my tanks (cschmokel)
18. 11:52 PM - RE Newbie mistake - pulled the sump plug to drain my tanks (Michel Verheughe)
Message 0
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
I've read all your posts, and all of any mail that comes into my
email box....I don't go to the "site". The only thing problem that
this creates is when somebody doesn't include a snippet of what they
are replying to...like you did here. But this thread is current
enough that even my poor memory allows me to "connect the dots." The
other problem is when someone only gets the "digest" and includes 44
messages in their reply, like I bitched about last week. : )
I doubt that the filter element is your problem. I'm keeping all of
my filters, no matter how much certain engineers might (for me)
confuse the issue with talk of surface tension, etc., my system flows
fuel as long as there's fuel in the system to flow...nudge, nudge,
wink, wink. ; )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:58 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
> Lynn,
> This problem happens, usually, when my tanks are more than 1/2 -
> 3/4 full. To my knowledge I've never "unported" the tank by
> descending at such an angle that the fuel moves away from the outlet.
>
> As so often happens on this forum, someone will reply to a post by
> starting a new post with the same title (as happened to this
> thread). If you haven't read my original post, please take a
> look. :D I tried to explain the details and history of this
> problem that comes and goes...I would prefer for it to go! [Laughing]
>
> Once I'm back in the air...should this happen again, I will remove
> the filter element but keep the glass filter housing in place for
> observation.
>
> Travis :)
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270317#270317
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During |
November!
Please drop me from your list. Thank you.
Frank Miles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:14 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During
November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued
operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely
through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are
possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have
noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the
Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics
List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki (
http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search
Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser (
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a
List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely
Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every
couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask
for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout
these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism
I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your
personal Contribution counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along
with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been
provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on
Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially
discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric
Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's
Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their
respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful
aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy,
and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods
this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All
three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free
gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND
moral support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Lynn,
...you get to read a lot of email! [Shocked]
I really don't want to get rid of my filters either. We are still only talking
about one filter between a wing tank and the header tank. Once the fuel is in
the header tank it should then benefit from the "suction" of the mechanical
pump.
My last two hurdles are removing the wing tank outlet fitting to check the finger
strainers and cutting the root rib on the wing so the fuel line doesn't have
to have a hump in it before descending down towards the header tank. Thanks
again for all your input...always appreciated!
Travis
Lynn Matteson wrote:
> I've read all your posts, and all of any mail that comes into my email box....I
don't go to the "site".
>
> I doubt that the filter element is your problem. I'm keeping all of
> my filters, no matter how much certain engineers might (for me)
> confuse the issue with talk of surface tension, etc., my system flows
> fuel as long as there's fuel in the system to flow...nudge, nudge,
> wink, wink. ; )
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:58 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
:D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270420#270420
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
When I first got my Avid MK IV=2C I put filters on both sides between the w
ing tanks and the header tank. All was fine for a while (about 10-15 hrs)
till one evening I took off from my strip and as I climbed out and got to 4
50'=2C the engine started to miss and spit. I ended up landing in a neighb
ors field with no dammage to me or the plane. What had happened I found ou
t the next day=2C was the filter on the tank I was using started to plug ju
st a bit and so the flow was reduced. The engine never did die=2C but woul
d not run up above about 4000 rpm. Durring the takeoff=2C it was turning u
p about 6200=2C and when the small header tank was emptied=2C things got "i
nteresting". I posted this account on the Avid list=2C and Steve Winder=2C
who ran the Avid factory for years said NEVER HAVE FILTERS BETWEEN THE WIN
G TANKS AND THE HEADER TANK. He used all capitol letters also! He said th
at it takes very little to stop or slow the gravity flow=2C and ofcourse th
at is what caused my problem. He also said=2C that the header tank works a
s a gascolator to filter the fuel so the filters between the tanks aren't n
eeded. I had a final filter between the header tank and the fuel pump=2C a
nd so to gaurd against that one plugging and putting me in the trees=2C I p
ut in a T in my fuel line and added a second filter alongside the first one
and then a T back into the fuel line with a small valve to stop the flow t
hrough that filter. When I'm taking off=2C I open that valve and then clos
e it after I get up to 750' or so. If the main filter ever starts to plug
while in flight=2C I will open the valve for the second filter and the fuel
will be able to flow through that one and I will stay out of the trees.
So far that has worked good for me and I still have potentialy three filter
s to stop any crud getting to the carb. The header tank=2C the inline filt
er=2C pluss the backup filter which will only be used if the first inline f
ilter plugs. To each his own=2C but this works for me. I have always used
the Fram paper filters and they have worked good for me.
Take care=2C Jim Chuk
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems=2C Again! (Vixen=2C Series-5
)
> From: flyboytr@bellsouth.net
> Date: Sun=2C 1 Nov 2009 05:43:45 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Lynn=2C
> ...you get to read a lot of email! [Shocked]
>
> I really don't want to get rid of my filters either. We are still only ta
lking about one filter between a wing tank and the header tank. Once the fu
el is in the header tank it should then benefit from the "suction" of the m
echanical pump.
>
> My last two hurdles are removing the wing tank outlet fitting to check th
e finger strainers and cutting the root rib on the wing so the fuel line do
esn't have to have a hump in it before descending down towards the header t
ank. Thanks again for all your input...always appreciated!
>
> Travis
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
> > I've read all your posts=2C and all of any mail that comes into my emai
l box....I don't go to the "site".
> >
> > I doubt that the filter element is your problem. I'm keeping all of
> > my filters=2C no matter how much certain engineers might (for me)
> > confuse the issue with talk of surface tension=2C etc.=2C my system flo
ws
> > fuel as long as there's fuel in the system to flow...nudge=2C nudge=2C
> > wink=2C wink. =3B )
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 804.3 hrs
> > Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
> > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > Rotec TBI-40 injection
> > Status: flying (and learning)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Oct 31=2C 2009=2C at 11:58 PM=2C FlyboyTR wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> :D
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile=2C AL
> Skystar Vixen=2C N-789DF
> Continental IO-240=2C Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270420#270420
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pc-scout/default.aspx?CBID=wl&ocid=PID
24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_pcscout:112009
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
I know this thread has been going on forever and those who have wing tank
filters will probably keep them. Fuel flow is probably one of the most
important parts of our airplane so talking this to death can't hurt a thing.
Here's my take, for whatever it's worth.
Ideally, "IMO" the lines from the wing tanks to the header should be as
large as practicable...3/8 ID would be good. To keep the head pressure as
high as possible there should be no (unnecessary) restrictions between the
tanks and the header, meaning no filters, valves, unnecessary fittings, or
reducing fittings that restrict flow. After the header, the same applies,
however, it's obvious that one needs at minimum a shutoff valve and usually
a fuel pump of some sort. Since most fuel pumps are meant to push fuel, not
suck, it should be at the lowest point in the system, generally just after
the header and as close to it as practical. After the fuel pump things are
not so critical as most pumps can push fuel pressure and volume far beyond
what static flow can provide. Obviously, the 582s with diaphragm pumps
wouldn't be very practical to be placed at this point, but to continue.
There should be a shut off valve, generally on the console or wherever it's
located that is easy to reach, again, IMO, the next restriction should be
the filter. This should be a high flow filter and could be located on the
firewall and be the last line of defense before it goes to the carb/TB/etc.
Again, I stated "ideally" and is only my opinion. There are many other
methods that work and some that don't, but as I recall a study was done at
some point about forced landings and most were caused by fuel starvation.
Everything that is put into the system between the fuel tanks and the engine
is a restriction of some sort. Add them all up and it can be significant
and even though the system may be working it may be marginally close to
failure without one knowing it.
Personally, I don't feel the filters in the lines from the tanks to the
header are necessary at all. Between the finger strainers and the natural
settling action of the header, plus the fuel sump at the bottom of the
header, there is more than enough there to clean up the big stuff. The
final filter at the firewall will take care of anything that somehow reaches
that point.
I expect that some will take issue with this, and that is fine and I'd like
to hear it. Just be nice. :-)
Have a great day!
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
----- Original Message -----
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 8:43 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
>
> Lynn,
> ...you get to read a lot of email! [Shocked]
>
> I really don't want to get rid of my filters either. We are still only
> talking about one filter between a wing tank and the header tank. Once
> the fuel is in the header tank it should then benefit from the "suction"
> of the mechanical pump.
>
> My last two hurdles are removing the wing tank outlet fitting to check the
> finger strainers and cutting the root rib on the wing so the fuel line
> doesn't have to have a hump in it before descending down towards the
> header tank. Thanks again for all your input...always appreciated!
>
> Travis
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> I've read all your posts, and all of any mail that comes into my email
>> box....I don't go to the "site".
>>
>> I doubt that the filter element is your problem. I'm keeping all of
>> my filters, no matter how much certain engineers might (for me)
>> confuse the issue with talk of surface tension, etc., my system flows
>> fuel as long as there's fuel in the system to flow...nudge, nudge,
>> wink, wink. ; )
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
>> Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
>> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Rotec TBI-40 injection
>> Status: flying (and learning)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:58 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> :D
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270420#270420
>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
The only problem I have....and this is just a shade-tree mechanics
view...is the paper filter. It is said that they will clog if water
gets to them. I can see the benefit of not having a filter in the
line to the header tank, as the header tank DOES work like a
gascolator, and as such will catch (and allow for the sampling of)
any crud that might get there. I put the filters in my down...to the
header...lines because I wanted to see any crud that just got into
those lines from airport A, or airport B, etc., or from my own 300-
gallon tank at home.
Like you said, to each his own, and future or current builders will
be able to choose for themselves what they think is right. And of
course, each DAR will have his/her own views on what they will allow.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 805.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--195 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 1, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
> When I first got my Avid MK IV, I put filters on both sides between
> the wing tanks and the header tank. All was fine for a while
> (about 10-15 hrs) till one evening I took off from my strip and as
> I climbed out and got to 450', the engine started to miss and
> spit. I ended up landing in a neighbors field with no dammage to
> me or the plane. What had happened I found out the next day, was
> the filter on the tank I was using started to plug just a bit and
> so the flow was reduced. The engine never did die, but would not
> run up above about 4000 rpm. Durring the takeoff, it was turning
> up about 6200, and when the small header tank was emptied, things
> got "interesting". I posted this account on the Avid list, and
> Steve Winder, who ran the Avid factory for years said NEVER HAVE
> FILTERS BETWEEN THE WING TANKS AND THE HEADER TANK. He used all
> capitol letters also! He said that it takes very little to stop or
> slow the gravity flow, and ofcourse that is what caused my
> problem. He also said, that the header tank works as a gascolator
> to filter the fuel so the filters between the tanks aren't needed.
> I had a final filter between the header tank and the fuel pump, and
> so to gaurd against that one plugging and putting me in the trees,
> I put in a T in my fuel line and added a second filter alongside
> the first one and then a T back into the fuel line with a small
> valve to stop the flow through that filter. When I'm taking off, I
> open that valve and then close it after I get up to 750' or so. If
> the main filter ever starts to plug while in flight, I will open
> the valve for the second filter and the fuel will be able to flow
> through that one and I will stay out of the trees. So far that has
> worked good for me and I still have potentialy three filters to
> stop any crud getting to the carb. The header tank, the inline
> filter, pluss the backup filter which will only be used if the
> first inline filter plugs. To each his own, but this works for
> me. I have always used the Fram paper filters and they have worked
> good for me.
> Take care, Jim Chuk
>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen,
> Series-5)
> > From: flyboytr@bellsouth.net
> > Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 05:43:45 -0800
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
> >
> > Lynn,
> > ...you get to read a lot of email! [Shocked]
> >
> > I really don't want to get rid of my filters either. We are still
> only talking about one filter between a wing tank and the header
> tank. Once the fuel is in the header tank it should then benefit
> from the "suction" of the mechanical pump.
> >
> > My last two hurdles are removing the wing tank outlet fitting to
> check the finger strainers and cutting the root rib on the wing so
> the fuel line doesn't have to have a hump in it before descending
> down towards the header tank. Thanks again for all your
> input...always appreciated!
> >
> > Travis
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson wrote:
> > > I've read all your posts, and all of any mail that comes into
> my email box....I don't go to the "site".
> > >
> > > I doubt that the filter element is your problem. I'm keeping
> all of
> > > my filters, no matter how much certain engineers might (for me)
> > > confuse the issue with talk of surface tension, etc., my system
> flows
> > > fuel as long as there's fuel in the system to flow...nudge, nudge,
> > > wink, wink. ; )
> > >
> > >
> > > Lynn Matteson
> > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
> > > Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
> > > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > > Rotec TBI-40 injection
> > > Status: flying (and learning)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:58 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > :D
> >
> > --------
> > Travis Rayner
> > Mobile, AL
> > Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> > Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> > ADI-II Autopilot
> > AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270420#270420
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more._-
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Probably more important than where a person decides to place the
filters, valves, etc., is the decision to do a flow test after all
the plumbing is done. That might reveal more than all the theory in
the world. If the flow test shows marginal flow, change something! If
it doesn't......
One of the discoveries that I made while changing to the TBI in place
of the Bing carb, was I hadn't realized how far up the "flow chart"
the carb/TBI was located. With my gravity flow ONLY system, if I have
to point the nose up very steeply with low fuel....like when the
header tank supply is the only fuel available....that fuel will not
make it up to the TBI/carb. You folks with high-mounted carbs are
almost certain candidates for a pumped system.
If in doubt about the flow of your particular system, lay some
masking paper on the side of the aircraft, and measure and plot where
the various parts of the fuel system lie, and where the lines run.
Draw these components onto the paper, then imagine the plane
climbing, diving, banking, etc., and see where the fuel goes and also
imagine a lower than normal fuel supply, and see where that leads you.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 805.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--195 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 1, 2009, at 10:28 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> I know this thread has been going on forever and those who have
> wing tank filters will probably keep them. Fuel flow is probably
> one of the most important parts of our airplane so talking this to
> death can't hurt a thing. Here's my take, for whatever it's worth.
> Ideally, "IMO" the lines from the wing tanks to the header should
> be as large as practicable...3/8 ID would be good. To keep the
> head pressure as high as possible there should be no (unnecessary)
> restrictions between the tanks and the header, meaning no filters,
> valves, unnecessary fittings, or reducing fittings that restrict
> flow. After the header, the same applies, however, it's obvious
> that one needs at minimum a shutoff valve and usually a fuel pump
> of some sort. Since most fuel pumps are meant to push fuel, not
> suck, it should be at the lowest point in the system, generally
> just after the header and as close to it as practical. After the
> fuel pump things are not so critical as most pumps can push fuel
> pressure and volume far beyond what static flow can provide.
> Obviously, the 582s with diaphragm pumps wouldn't be very practical
> to be placed at this point, but to continue. There should be a shut
> off valve, generally on the console or wherever it's located that
> is easy to reach, again, IMO, the next restriction should be the
> filter. This should be a high flow filter and could be located on
> the firewall and be the last line of defense before it goes to the
> carb/TB/etc. Again, I stated "ideally" and is only my opinion.
> There are many other methods that work and some that don't, but as
> I recall a study was done at some point about forced landings and
> most were caused by fuel starvation. Everything that is put into
> the system between the fuel tanks and the engine is a restriction
> of some sort. Add them all up and it can be significant and even
> though the system may be working it may be marginally close to
> failure without one knowing it.
> Personally, I don't feel the filters in the lines from the tanks to
> the header are necessary at all. Between the finger strainers and
> the natural settling action of the header, plus the fuel sump at
> the bottom of the header, there is more than enough there to clean
> up the big stuff. The final filter at the firewall will take care
> of anything that somehow reaches that point.
> I expect that some will take issue with this, and that is fine and
> I'd like to hear it. Just be nice. :-)
> Have a great day!
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
> "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
> Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
> -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 8:43 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
At 12:07 PM 10/31/2009, you wrote:
>I folded the wing to check the finger strainers. I was unable to
>remove the 90 fitting (see picture). To do do would mean I would
>have to cut the fabric in the bottom of the wing. Any
>suggestions? does this look like the KF setup?
Doncha jes hate it when someone doesn't think about
maintenance? The finger strainer, if there is one, is built into the
brass bushing that the elbow is screwed into. Yes, it unscrews from
the fiberglass, another maintenance nightmare that Kitfox didn't
think about. (Why would anyone ever need to look at a finger
strainer? Geee. I dunno.) Unfortunately you're right, you'd have to
cut the fabric to pull the elbow. The only maintenance alternative I
can see is to drain the tanks, pull the wings, flip them over, then
blow fluid through the fuel outlet to try to clear the finger
strainers. Then slosh the tanks with fluid to make sure any large
particulates get out the filler cap. Fun, huh?
The finger strainers are really course, say about .04". So
generally the only things that don't go through them are when the
Kreem sheets off, or when you drop your TCP additive cap gasket into
the tank. (Don't ask.) That means you probably never need to look at
them; only when you're having fuel flow problems. (Like NOW. Are we
having fun yet?)
Sorry for the bad news.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ducatti 582 Ignition needed |
Wierd thing going on. Both Rear plugs have hot spark but front plugs
have weak spark. Engine seems to try to run on one cylinder when i try
to start it. I know that each cylinders plugs are fired by each coil so
does this mean that one top or bottom side of each ignition module is bad?
There is some heat damage to the front ignition. I can see on the wires
where it may have gotten warm enough to melt wiring etc... but the rear
one looks fine.
Does someone have one or two ignition modules laying around that are new
or used but that are working?
Thanks.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
I have not read most of the posts and you may have already gotten this info
but I will never get rid of my glass filters at the wing tanks.. VITAL in
flight to physically see the fuel flow and see whats maybe sitting in my
tanks. What I don't see unless I look very close is the little bits of
fiberglass but I keep filter elements handy and change very often.
As to the fuel flow.. Don Smythe cured my issues years ago when I was in
DC. He said "Always down hill" and even with a little bump in the hoses its
ok but the critical one is the vent line. And to me that's the biggest
obstical because its always in the way to making a neat cockpit but when I
am cruising along and my header tank fuel low light comes on I can always
look at my vent line and know its got a dip in it!
Hope that helps.
Jared
Nov 1, 2009 07:54:21 AM, kitfox-list@matronics.com wrote:
==========================================
Lynn,
...you get to read a lot of email! [Shocked]
I really don't want to get rid of my filters either. We are still only talking
about one filter between a wing tank and the header tank. Once the fuel is in
the header tank it should then benefit from the "suction" of the mechanical
pump.
My last two hurdles are removing the wing tank outlet fitting to check the finger
strainers and cutting the root rib on the wing so the fuel line doesn't have
to have a hump in it before descending down towards the header tank. Thanks
again for all your input...always appreciated!
Travis
Lynn Matteson wrote:
> I've read all your posts, and all of any mail that comes into my email box....I
don't go to the "site".
>
> I doubt that the filter element is your problem. I'm keeping all of
> my filters, no matter how much certain engineers might (for me)
> confuse the issue with talk of surface tension, etc., my system flows
> fuel as long as there's fuel in the system to flow...nudge, nudge,
> wink, wink. ; )
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:58 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
:D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270420#270420
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed |
Wierd thing going on. Both Rear plugs have hot spark but front plugs have weak
spark. Engine seems to try to run on one cylinder when i try to start it.
I know that each cylinders plugs are fired by each coil so does this mean that
one top or bottom side of each ignition module is bad?
There is some heat damage to the front ignition. I can see on the wires where
it may have gotten warm enough to melt wiring etc... but the rear one looks fine.
Does someone have one or two ignition modules laying around that are new or used
but that are working?
Thanks.
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
I do not comment often but listen a lot.
On this subject of fuel filters will say that in my 32 years of flying I
have never seen a filter on a GA certified aircraft. That does not include
any of the newer fuel injected ones. I have had a paper filter for a short
time on my model II. While running premix and some ethanol in the fuel I was
forced to land off field. Once that paper gets oil soaked water will not
pass properly. Took the filter out and no problem.
Dwight Purdy
Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
>
> The only problem I have....and this is just a shade-tree mechanics
> view...is the paper filter. It is said that they will clog if water gets
> to them. I can see the benefit of not having a filter in the line to the
> header tank, as the header tank DOES work like a gascolator, and as such
> will catch (and allow for the sampling of) any crud that might get there.
> I put the filters in my down...to the header...lines because I wanted to
> see any crud that just got into those lines from airport A, or airport B,
> etc., or from my own 300- gallon tank at home.
> Like you said, to each his own, and future or current builders will be
> able to choose for themselves what they think is right. And of course,
> each DAR will have his/her own views on what they will allow.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 805.4 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs--195 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
>
>
> On Nov 1, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
>
>> When I first got my Avid MK IV, I put filters on both sides between the
>> wing tanks and the header tank. All was fine for a while (about 10-15
>> hrs) till one evening I took off from my strip and as I climbed out and
>> got to 450', the engine started to miss and spit. I ended up landing in
>> a neighbors field with no dammage to me or the plane. What had happened
>> I found out the next day, was the filter on the tank I was using started
>> to plug just a bit and so the flow was reduced. The engine never did
>> die, but would not run up above about 4000 rpm. Durring the takeoff, it
>> was turning up about 6200, and when the small header tank was emptied,
>> things got "interesting". I posted this account on the Avid list, and
>> Steve Winder, who ran the Avid factory for years said NEVER HAVE FILTERS
>> BETWEEN THE WING TANKS AND THE HEADER TANK. He used all capitol letters
>> also! He said that it takes very little to stop or slow the gravity
>> flow, and ofcourse that is what caused my problem. He also said, that
>> the header tank works as a gascolator to filter the fuel so the filters
>> between the tanks aren't needed. I had a final filter between the
>> header tank and the fuel pump, and so to gaurd against that one plugging
>> and putting me in the trees, I put in a T in my fuel line and added a
>> second filter alongside the first one and then a T back into the fuel
>> line with a small valve to stop the flow through that filter. When I'm
>> taking off, I open that valve and then close it after I get up to 750'
>> or so. If the main filter ever starts to plug while in flight, I will
>> open the valve for the second filter and the fuel will be able to flow
>> through that one and I will stay out of the trees. So far that has
>> worked good for me and I still have potentialy three filters to stop any
>> crud getting to the carb. The header tank, the inline filter, pluss the
>> backup filter which will only be used if the first inline filter plugs.
>> To each his own, but this works for me. I have always used the Fram
>> paper filters and they have worked good for me.
>> Take care, Jim Chuk
>>
>> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen,
>> Series-5)
>> > From: flyboytr@bellsouth.net
>> > Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 05:43:45 -0800
>> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
>> >
>> > Lynn,
>> > ...you get to read a lot of email! [Shocked]
>> >
>> > I really don't want to get rid of my filters either. We are still
>> only talking about one filter between a wing tank and the header tank.
>> Once the fuel is in the header tank it should then benefit from the
>> "suction" of the mechanical pump.
>> >
>> > My last two hurdles are removing the wing tank outlet fitting to
>> check the finger strainers and cutting the root rib on the wing so the
>> fuel line doesn't have to have a hump in it before descending down
>> towards the header tank. Thanks again for all your input...always
>> appreciated!
>> >
>> > Travis
>> >
>> >
>> > Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> > > I've read all your posts, and all of any mail that comes into
>> my email box....I don't go to the "site".
>> > >
>> > > I doubt that the filter element is your problem. I'm keeping
>> all of
>> > > my filters, no matter how much certain engineers might (for me)
>> > > confuse the issue with talk of surface tension, etc., my system
>> flows
>> > > fuel as long as there's fuel in the system to flow...nudge, nudge,
>> > > wink, wink. ; )
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Lynn Matteson
>> > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
>> > > Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
>> > > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
>> > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> > > Rotec TBI-40 injection
>> > > Status: flying (and learning)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:58 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > :D
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Travis Rayner
>> > Mobile, AL
>> > Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
>> > Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
>> > ADI-II Autopilot
>> > AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270420#270420
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more._-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
I think you'll find that the filter on a GA aircraft is disguised and
called a gascolator...but I could be wrong.
Inside my Rotec TBI is what is called a "last chance" filter. It
catches the bad stuff that would otherwise try to plug the 50-some
holes in the fuel discharge tube. These holes are reportedly .
010" (ten-thousandths of an inch) in diameter. I trust my Purolator
glass filters to keep the last chance filter, and thence the fuel
discharge tube, clean. I won't take my "pre-filters" out unless
something or someone proves that this is an incorrect design. And as
long as my gravity system flows more than twice what is needed by the
engine, that likelihood seems remote.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 805.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--195 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Dwight Purdy wrote:
>
> I do not comment often but listen a lot.
> On this subject of fuel filters will say that in my 32 years of
> flying I have never seen a filter on a GA certified aircraft. That
> does not include any of the newer fuel injected ones. I have had a
> paper filter for a short time on my model II. While running premix
> and some ethanol in the fuel I was forced to land off field. Once
> that paper gets oil soaked water will not pass properly. Took the
> filter out and no problem.
>
> Dwight Purdy
> Model II
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen,
> Series-5)
>
>
>>
>> The only problem I have....and this is just a shade-tree mechanics
>> view...is the paper filter. It is said that they will clog if
>> water gets to them. I can see the benefit of not having a filter
>> in the line to the header tank, as the header tank DOES work like
>> a gascolator, and as such will catch (and allow for the sampling
>> of) any crud that might get there. I put the filters in my
>> down...to the header...lines because I wanted to see any crud
>> that just got into those lines from airport A, or airport B,
>> etc., or from my own 300- gallon tank at home.
>> Like you said, to each his own, and future or current builders
>> will be able to choose for themselves what they think is right.
>> And of course, each DAR will have his/her own views on what they
>> will allow.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 805.4 hrs
>> Countdown to 1000 hrs--195 to go
>> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Rotec TBI-40 injection
>> Status: flying (and learning)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 1, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
>>
>>> When I first got my Avid MK IV, I put filters on both sides
>>> between the wing tanks and the header tank. All was fine for a
>>> while (about 10-15 hrs) till one evening I took off from my
>>> strip and as I climbed out and got to 450', the engine started
>>> to miss and spit. I ended up landing in a neighbors field with
>>> no dammage to me or the plane. What had happened I found out
>>> the next day, was the filter on the tank I was using started to
>>> plug just a bit and so the flow was reduced. The engine never
>>> did die, but would not run up above about 4000 rpm. Durring the
>>> takeoff, it was turning up about 6200, and when the small header
>>> tank was emptied, things got "interesting". I posted this
>>> account on the Avid list, and Steve Winder, who ran the Avid
>>> factory for years said NEVER HAVE FILTERS BETWEEN THE WING TANKS
>>> AND THE HEADER TANK. He used all capitol letters also! He said
>>> that it takes very little to stop or slow the gravity flow, and
>>> ofcourse that is what caused my problem. He also said, that the
>>> header tank works as a gascolator to filter the fuel so the
>>> filters between the tanks aren't needed. I had a final filter
>>> between the header tank and the fuel pump, and so to gaurd
>>> against that one plugging and putting me in the trees, I put in
>>> a T in my fuel line and added a second filter alongside the
>>> first one and then a T back into the fuel line with a small
>>> valve to stop the flow through that filter. When I'm taking off,
>>> I open that valve and then close it after I get up to 750' or
>>> so. If the main filter ever starts to plug while in flight, I
>>> will open the valve for the second filter and the fuel will be
>>> able to flow through that one and I will stay out of the trees.
>>> So far that has worked good for me and I still have potentialy
>>> three filters to stop any crud getting to the carb. The header
>>> tank, the inline filter, pluss the backup filter which will only
>>> be used if the first inline filter plugs. To each his own, but
>>> this works for me. I have always used the Fram paper filters
>>> and they have worked good for me.
>>> Take care, Jim Chuk
>>>
>>> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen,
>>> Series-5)
>>> > From: flyboytr@bellsouth.net
>>> > Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 05:43:45 -0800
>>> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>> >
>>> <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
>>> >
>>> > Lynn,
>>> > ...you get to read a lot of email! [Shocked]
>>> >
>>> > I really don't want to get rid of my filters either. We are still
>>> only talking about one filter between a wing tank and the header
>>> tank. Once the fuel is in the header tank it should then benefit
>>> from the "suction" of the mechanical pump.
>>> >
>>> > My last two hurdles are removing the wing tank outlet fitting to
>>> check the finger strainers and cutting the root rib on the wing
>>> so the fuel line doesn't have to have a hump in it before
>>> descending down towards the header tank. Thanks again for all
>>> your input...always appreciated!
>>> >
>>> > Travis
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>> > > I've read all your posts, and all of any mail that comes into
>>> my email box....I don't go to the "site".
>>> > >
>>> > > I doubt that the filter element is your problem. I'm keeping
>>> all of
>>> > > my filters, no matter how much certain engineers might (for me)
>>> > > confuse the issue with talk of surface tension, etc., my system
>>> flows
>>> > > fuel as long as there's fuel in the system to flow...nudge,
>>> nudge,
>>> > > wink, wink. ; )
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Lynn Matteson
>>> > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>>> > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 804.3 hrs
>>> > > Countdown to 1000 hrs--196 to go
>>> > > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
>>> > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>>> > > Rotec TBI-40 injection
>>> > > Status: flying (and learning)
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:58 PM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > :D
>>> >
>>> > --------
>>> > Travis Rayner
>>> > Mobile, AL
>>> > Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
>>> > Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
>>> > ADI-II Autopilot
>>> > AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Read this topic online here:
>>> >
>>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270420#270420
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more._-
>>> ============================================================ _-
>>> ============================================================ _-
>>> ===========================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fuel flow issues |
I re-read the initial post carefully and what comes to my mind is the much discussed
- in times past - phenomenon of the fuel draining unevenly from the tanks.
I can't suggest the best key word for an archive search, but there is a lot
in there about this.
It appears that the problems mentioned occur after a top off of the tanks where
both tanks are full. I might suggest that what you are experiencing is the typical
one tank draining faster than the other with no real fuel flow issues other
than the cosmetic ones from looking at the transparent tubing and seeing
the fuel differential in the tanks.
As mentioned, there has been a lot of theorizing on why this happens. Some have
placed fuel shut off valves to control it and some have learned to ignore it.
To my knowledge, there has never been a Kitfox that had an engine stoppage
with fuel in the tanks - assuming the system has been properly designed and maintained.
What I might suggest. The next time you see it happening, purposely try flying
a bit uncoordinated with the slow draining tank high and see if you see some
difference in your fuel flow. I have many hours in flights of four or more -
up to ten Kitfoxes, and can state that lots of guys fly with one wing low. With
head pressure a recent discussion topic, a high wing tank will have significantly
higher head pressure then the low wing tank and will drain more quickly
than the low wing tank and might even trans fill to the low wing tank. With
partially filled tanks the phenomenon will not be as pronounced.
We had one pilot with a Franklin Powered Moddel V meet up with us at Elk City,
Idaho and he was sweating bullets. He insisted that he had a fuel flow problem
and would not fly another minute until it was checked out. With the six airplanes,
we found enough tools to pretty much disassemble his fuel system. We
tested everything including fuel flow in all the attitudes we could put the airplane
in while on the ground and after he was satisfied, we flew the rest of
the week with no incidents. In this case, he just needed to be reassured.
Our airplanes are designed with no thrust offset in the engine mounts. This almost
always requires some rudder input for coordinated flight or some rudder trim.
With rudder trim, the typical trim tab is fixed and ground adjustable and
will not result in perfect trim in all speed ranges. With a long cross country
in mind, it is not uncommon to sort of fall asleep at the wheel and follow the
GPS ,and enjoying the view without paying as much attention to the little black
ball.
Lowell
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 2 pictures for you |
Kitfox folks, my Model II, rotax 532 with GSC fixed pitch prop is now
flying, after a long dormant period. After being purchased from Denny in
1990 is sat in a barn in Arkansas for 18 years (the owner died) before I
started construction in April of '08. It is all built per 1990 instructions
excepting the leading edge of wings. I used the McBean plastic extrusion
and covered the upper surface 12 inches behind that with .016 aluminum from
ACSpruce, eliminating the scalloped shape. It came with 2 six gallon alum.
wing tanks which feed a round alum. header tank which I opted to place
behind the copilot seat.
It flies great, jumps off the runway in about 100 feet and climbs about 900
fpm at 800 lbs. I put a GSC sport EFIS in the panel to handle all flight
info without vacuum. It also gives me map, airport data, terrain and
"highway in the sky" approaches. After two hours flying, I still can't
digest all the info its giving me. It cruises at 75 mph at 5500 rpm and
tops at 88 mph. I still need to add fairings to the jury struts and landing
gear, and wheel pants would help too.
Many thanks to the McBeans for advice and support, and many others on this
list who have answered questions and offered tips. As one guy said, "plane
is flying and now tinkering begins". I got some home made floats from Kasper
in Canada, and plan on installing them sometime next spring. Then finishing
his retract system which is actuated by compressed air. That promises to be
fun. Anyone flying in DFW area let me know and we will fly together. My
plane on the trailer lives in my garage. Maybe I will get to Sun n Fun next
year. Next project, start saving so I can buy a New super sport from KITFOX
LLC.
PS, anyone have wheel pants for 18 inch wheels for sale?
PPS My GSC prop is a 10 degree climb prop. The guy at GSC said I could
ream the holes thru the roots a few degrees to make it ground adjustable.
Has anyone done that, and how many degrees would I want to add to make a
cruise prop?
PPPS I found that I need to budget an extra half hour at the airport to
answer all the questions from admirers--aint that fun?
Ed Gray Dallas KII 582 GSC
DSCN1082.JPG
DSCN1086.JPG
These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 2 pictures for you |
Ed...Beautiful! Mine's a model 2 (ser # 707), 582, GSC prop completed in 1991.
Only complaint is that I live here in South Dakota now and weather precludes
the amount of flying I'd like to do. Lived in Dallas/Denton for many years during
college years.
That leading edge mod looks nice, even from far away in the pics. Would definitely
do that if I had it to do over again. That blunt front spar/leading edge
that's standard is a big drag penalty.
My GSC prop was also fixed pitch @ 10 deg. When I had it overhauled this year,
I sent it to the factory. For $150, they beautifully restored the blades, balanced
them, and feathered out the hole in the root of each blade for me so that
it's now ground adjustable. Change from 10 to 11 degrees pitch gave me 5-7
mph faster level cruise @ 4-600 fewer rpm and 100 to 200 degrees cooler egt's.
It just sounds and feels happier. What a difference one degree makes.
Only other mod I'd recommend, especially in the hot Dallas summers, would be to
make a couple of simple wooden standoff's to get the radiator out of the turbulent
flow on the underbelly. I was pushing the red line on the coolant temp
on warmer days before I did that one.
Happy Flying!
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270537#270537
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Newbie mistake - pulled the sump plug to drain my tanks |
Hey everybody,
Full disclosure .. I'm a newbie pilot, owner operator, mechanic, etc etc.
I decided to try folding my Kitfox 5 taildragger wings back .. and was told by
a former Kitfox 4 owner that draining most of the fuel is a good idea otherwise
it will spill.
OK, so I pulled the sump plug on the wing and started collecting gas. After about
a minute, I noticed gas spurting out holes in the trailing edge of the wing.
I replaced the sump plug and injected soapy water into the holes to dilute
the gas and hopefully get rid of most of it. Apparently the sump plug is recessed
too far and it ends up draining into the wing partially.
- Was this the right thing to do?
- What now? Should I just leave it as is and let whatever water/soap/gas mixture
in the wings evaporate?
- Do I really need to drain the tanks to fold the wings back?
Thanks guys
Carl
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270541#270541
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RE Newbie mistake - pulled the sump plug to drain my tanks |
> From: cschmokel [cschmokel@gmail.com]
> - Do I really need to drain the tanks to fold the wings back?
I did it the few times I folded my wings, Carl. But I always drain the fuel from
the gascolator; the lowest point in the system. It is also much easier because
it drains directly in a jerrycan on the floor.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|