Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:35 AM - November List Fund Raiser (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:37 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Dave G)
2. 04:40 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
3. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Tom Jones)
5. 07:28 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
6. 07:41 AM - Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (akflyer)
7. 07:49 AM - full lotus float flying (akflyer)
8. 07:50 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Tom Jones)
9. 07:53 AM - Re: Leaky Header tank (akflyer)
10. 07:59 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 11/01/09 (akflyer)
11. 08:10 AM - Fuel line antifreeze (Aaron Gustafson)
12. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (Dave G)
13. 08:37 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR)
14. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (verizon)
15. 10:12 AM - pitot tube (bob noffs)
16. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (Dave G)
17. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson)
18. 12:05 PM - Re: pitot tube (JC Propeller Design)
19. 12:08 PM - Re: pitot tube (Lowell Fitt)
20. 03:14 PM - Re: Fuel flow stop after unport tank (n85ae)
21. 06:27 PM - Re: Fuel line antifreeze (Tom Jones)
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| Subject: | November List Fund Raiser |
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for
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a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will
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Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-)
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reliably and performance.
Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such
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exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
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If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
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when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
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Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
This was one of the things on my mind when I did not move the header tank
from the firewall. When I do an additional fuel pump might be a worthwhile
addition. With the old aluminum header close to the pump and roughly the
same level or above the carbs it seemed to me that fuel flow was about as
assured as possible. The fact that almost everyone else has it way down low
behind the seats and experiences no problems is assuring but then most are
flying behind fourstrokes with stronger mechanical pumps that the little
diaphragm rig the two strokes run. In a static level setup mine flows far
in excess of requirements, when the tailwheel is on the ground and the wing
tank(s) near empty , fuel flow is marginal/inadequate for the 582 . No
filters between the wings and the header in this setup.
Dave Goddard
KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5)
>
> One of the discoveries that I made while changing to the TBI in place of
> the Bing carb, was I hadn't realized how far up the "flow chart" the
> carb/TBI was located. With my gravity flow ONLY system, if I have to
> point the nose up very steeply with low fuel....like when the header tank
> supply is the only fuel available....that fuel will not make it up to the
> TBI/carb. You folks with high-mounted carbs are almost certain candidates
> for a pumped system.
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Today, I am going to work on the fuel outlet (from the tanks) area of my fuel system.
Plan to cut the nipple off the 90 elbow so I can unscrew it, remove the
finger strainer and start over with the elbow assembly.
What should I use to reseal the finger strainer fitting to the fiberglass tank?
Hopefully something I can purchase locally.
Second, I will be cutting the root rib (end rib) to the fuel line does NOT run
uphill before entering the fuselage! After thinking about this hump...it actually
makes for a large area for air to collect.
At least I feel like I am making progress with my problem!. :D
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270758#270758
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
I used Permatex Aviation Gasket Maker, or threadsealer, or something
like that. It comes in a 4-ounce bottle, I think. The number I really
recall is 3H. Dan Mc Intyre just mentioned Permatex 9 AR Tack and
Seal, so if that is available, you might try it. The 3H stuff I
mentioned is a little bit runny, so I mix it up good, apply it, then
let it set up for 10 minutes before screwing the strainers back in.
When I first installed my finger strainers 3 years ago, I applied the
3H sealer to the male f'strainer threads, AND to the tanks' internal
threads. Then I had to be very careful to insert the f'strainer into
the hole without getting any goop onto the screen.....PITA! I got a
little tiny bit of goop on the screens, (as I found out when I
removed them a couple of weeks ago) but it was only a little and not
worth worrying about, but I didn't do that again. This last time I
only applied it to the male threads on the f'strainer, and they are
holding fine...no leaks.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 805.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--195 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 3, 2009, at 7:38 AM, FlyboyTR wrote:
>
> Today, I am going to work on the fuel outlet (from the tanks) area
> of my fuel system. Plan to cut the nipple off the 90 elbow so I
> can unscrew it, remove the finger strainer and start over with the
> elbow assembly.
>
> What should I use to reseal the finger strainer fitting to the
> fiberglass tank? Hopefully something I can purchase locally.
>
> Second, I will be cutting the root rib (end rib) to the fuel line
> does NOT run uphill before entering the fuselage! After thinking
> about this hump...it actually makes for a large area for air to
> collect.
>
> At least I feel like I am making progress with my problem!. :D
>
> Travis
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270758#270758
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
> Today, I am going to work on the fuel outlet (from the tanks) area of my fuel
system. Plan to cut the nipple off the 90 elbow so I can unscrew it, remove the
finger strainer and start over with the elbow assembly.
>
Travis, after you get the fittings at the tank outlet apart take note of the inside
diameter. I'll bet it is 1/4 inch. A couple of those brass fittings for
the fuel system that came with my Kit had 1/8th inch inside diameter. Once plumbing
is reduced down you will never increase the downstream flow with larger
fuel line.
I would check the inside diameter of the on/off valves and other fittings in the
system too if you haven't already.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270766#270766
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Thanks Tom & Lynn...
My fuel valve is for 5/16 fuel hose. The ID was slightly less than 1/4". I drilled
them out to....9/32" ( I believe...). Anyway, just slightly larger than
1/4". I will probably drill out the new elbow and nipple coming out of the tank
as well.
I plan to push some Goop into the nipple, all the way into the elbow, prior to
cutting it with the rotary tool. At least...should i have a spark from the cutting
wheel (or spark from the motor) it will be isolated from the tank. Don't
need no excitement today!
I'll report on the results. If you don't hear from me...you will know it probably
didn't go well! [Shocked]
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270772#270772
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed |
I was thinking more about this ( I know it hurt my head and it is scary). Each
coil feeds one front and one rear plug. If both front plugs are weak, then either
the plugs are bad, or the plug wires or caps are bad. The stator is putting
out juice to the coils fine if both rear plugs are firing good.
Is there any black around the tops of the front plugs? Any chance you could post
a pic of the wires and plugs?
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270774#270774
Message 7
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| Subject: | full lotus float flying |
Yesterday we had to go into a nasty little area to do some field repairs on my
buddies KF II. He had a little issue on take off when he flattened the pitch
way out on his in-flight adjustable prop. He thought the higher RPMS would help
get him off the water but there was not enough trust to actually fly (yes he
had it screaming that much).. I watched in horror as he tried 6 takeoff attempts
and did not bother turning his radio on so he could not hear me screaming
to add pitch.. the end result was a banged up wingtip. Lotsa gorilla tape to
put the tip and covering back together and ratchet straps to hold the floats
square as he broke 2 of the flying wires.
Link to pics and a you tube vid of me ferrying tools, heater, etc from a longer
strip where we had the short wing piper death trap we used for a mule to get
him and supplies back to his plane the next day.
One more lesson we have learned while chasing those dang ole green head mallards
around the tundra.
http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/423-banged-up-kitfox/
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270778#270778
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
> I plan to push some Goop into the nipple, all the way into the elbow, prior to
cutting it with the rotary tool. At least...should i have a spark from the cutting
wheel (or spark from the motor) it will be isolated from the tank. Don't
need no excitement today!
Purge the tank. I had some welding done near the panel fuel tank on my kitfox.
It was done at the Skystar factory. Their welder just purged it with compressed
air.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270779#270779
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky Header tank |
I got one of the header tanks from kitfox last year and the sealant that was on
the bushing from KF started leaking about 5 hrs after I put fuel in it. I drained
it and used "fuel lube" (available at most FBO or AC Spruce) on all fittings
and tightened them as much as I dared. The header tank has been full of
fuel and has not leaked in over a year now.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270780#270780
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 11/01/09 |
When trailering my Avid, I put the tail on the trailer, fold the wings then use
the siphon hose to get the fuel out of the wings. When the tail is up, the fuel
will run right to the front of the tank and I can suck it all out without
having to try and get the hose to the back corner of the tank.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270781#270781
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fuel line antifreeze |
I know that ethanol and isopropyl are 2 different things, but, does having
ethanol in auto gas prevent water in fuel from freezing like isopropyl does.
In other words, is there still a need for isoprpyl to prevent fuel line and
carb bowl icing.
Note, I am aware of the draw backs of any kind of alcohol in aircraft fuel
so please don't lecture me on that.
Aaron Gustafson
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed |
This is just a theory based on some past experience, I want to stress that
while I know the theory is true, I do not know this to be the source of this
or in fact any problem, this is standard practice throughout the world, but
the Ducati ignition is not exactly a powerhouse. The bulk of a spark is DC
electricity and as such has a much easier time leaving a sparkplug tip to go
to the block than it has leaving the base electrode to the tip. It may be
that closing the gap to the minimum specified gap will improve things
significantly. In practice the easier spark is when the tip is NEG and the
block is POS, but in our round trip systems this can only be true for one
set of plugs. I have had motorcycles that would completely fail to run high
throttle openings with a wide gap.
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:39 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed
>
> I was thinking more about this ( I know it hurt my head and it is scary).
> Each coil feeds one front and one rear plug. If both front plugs are
> weak, then either the plugs are bad, or the plug wires or caps are bad.
> The stator is putting out juice to the coils fine if both rear plugs are
> firing good.
>
> Is there any black around the tops of the front plugs? Any chance you
> could post a pic of the wires and plugs?
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270774#270774
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Tom,
I know some folks will weld and cut after just blowing out a tank with compressed
air... However, since I do frequent welding and cutting for friends, and I
have headr of, and seen, several tanks explode (not by my doing). Blowing it
out with compressed air really doesn't purge the tank. If there is ANY fuel in
a seam, or even a damp area it is a recipe for disaster. :?
Way back when, I used to weld on race car tanks with fuel in them. However, I
had a 3 HP Clinton engine that I ran VERY rich...barely running...and ran a line
from the exhaust and down into the fuel tank I was working on. The carbon
monoxide would displace/replace any O2 and a fire or explosion was no threat.
Never had a problem...however, I wouldn't do it now.[Shocked] ...strange how
things change with time!
I'm not saying is can't be done that way...it's just not a safe practice (IMHO).
...sorry ya'll...didn't mean to go off topic!
[quote="Tom Jones"]
>
> Purge the tank. I had some welding done near the panel fuel tank on my kitfox.
It was done at the Skystar factory. Their welder just purged it with compressed
air.
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270795#270795
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed |
Actually talked to mechanic at leaf and he said caps on plug wires go all
the time and gave me an ohm reading to test them.
He also gave me some other testing ohm settings so will have to get back to
ya'll on what i find.
My head is hurting too.
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:39 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed
>
> I was thinking more about this ( I know it hurt my head and it is scary).
> Each coil feeds one front and one rear plug. If both front plugs are
> weak, then either the plugs are bad, or the plug wires or caps are bad.
> The stator is putting out juice to the coils fine if both rear plugs are
> firing good.
>
> Is there any black around the tops of the front plugs? Any chance you
> could post a pic of the wires and plugs?
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270774#270774
>
>
>
Message 15
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hi all,
what inside diameter for a piot tube is being used successfully?
thanks bob noffs
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed |
One other thing I thought of, it may be wrong to assume that because a spark
appears weak at cranking speed it will therefore be weak at running speed.
Remember you are working with an excited system here, meaning the coil packs
are powered directly by the output of the alternator coils. The power
available to coil packs will increase to a fair degree as the engine
increases from cranking speed.
I would vote almost instantly to run at least one of the ignitions from
battery power if the choice were available. That will likely never happen.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) |
Ok, Travis, I can't let ya get by with just *your* story...gotta
throw one of mine in there, too.
I was severely lowering (chopped, channelled, and sectioned) a 1950
Oldsmobile Holiday Coupe (God, I wish I had that now, in stock
condition!), and decided to put the fuel filler neck inside the
trunk, so I stuffed wet rags down inside the filler neck below where
I was going to cut it with a hacksaw. I had prepared the wet rags by
rolling them together, then wrapping a 1/16" welding wire around
them, leaving the long end of the wire sticking out of the filler
neck. I them sawed the neck apart, avoiding cutting the wire, and
rotated the neck so it was about 180 from where it started, and
pointing inside the trunk. Then I re-wet the rags, fired up the torch
and welded the neck back on, pulled on the wire and out came the rags
and most of the hacksaw droppings.
Hey, maybe this is where I started to appreciate fuel filters! You
know, like the ones on our Kitfox's (to stay on topic). Speaking of
which, I dropped into KFPK Charlotte, Michigan, while flying today,
and the IA there said he was restoring a Model III with a (of course)
Rotax 80 hp engine. I'll check back with him in a few months and see
how it goes.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 807.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~193 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 3, 2009, at 11:34 AM, FlyboyTR wrote:
> Way back when, I used to weld on race car tanks with fuel in them.
> However, I had a 3 HP Clinton engine that I ran VERY rich...barely
> running...and ran a line from the exhaust and down into the fuel
> tank I was working on. The carbon monoxide would displace/replace
> any O2 and a fire or explosion was no threat. Never had a
> problem...however, I wouldn't do it now.[Shocked] ...strange how
> things change with time!
Message 18
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It doesn't matter what diameter, the static + dynamic pressure will be
the same.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:39 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: pitot tube
hi all,
what inside diameter for a piot tube is being used successfully?
thanks bob noffs
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Bob,
My factory pitot tube from Kitfox is 0.25" od and 0.182 id. aluminum tube.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob noffs" <icubob@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:39 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: pitot tube
> hi all,
> what inside diameter for a piot tube is being used successfully?
> thanks bob noffs
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow stop after unport tank |
There was a post on the Zenith list a while back where the guy did extensive
pressure measurement recording of the internal pressure in both tanks in
flight and he found significant pressure difference from side to side, EVEN
with the same vented caps.
So I think it's probably a lot more complicated than it would seem.
I have a a header low warning, and I ignore the differences between
the tanks in flight. Once I get down below 1/4 fuel remaining it starts
flickering more and more.
I've stood on a rudder pedal until the tanks were balanced, but once the
foot comes off it goes right back where it wants to be.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270850#270850
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line antifreeze |
Aaron, I know ethanol will absorb water but I'm not sure if it will prevent it
from freezing. You could put some water in a sample, and put it in the freezer
to find out.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270876#270876
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