---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/03/09: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:35 AM - November List Fund Raiser (Matt Dralle) 1. 03:37 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Dave G) 2. 04:40 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR) 3. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson) 4. 06:48 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Tom Jones) 5. 07:28 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR) 6. 07:41 AM - Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (akflyer) 7. 07:49 AM - full lotus float flying (akflyer) 8. 07:50 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Tom Jones) 9. 07:53 AM - Re: Leaky Header tank (akflyer) 10. 07:59 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 11/01/09 (akflyer) 11. 08:10 AM - Fuel line antifreeze (Aaron Gustafson) 12. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (Dave G) 13. 08:37 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (FlyboyTR) 14. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (verizon) 15. 10:12 AM - pitot tube (bob noffs) 16. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed (Dave G) 17. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) (Lynn Matteson) 18. 12:05 PM - Re: pitot tube (JC Propeller Design) 19. 12:08 PM - Re: pitot tube (Lowell Fitt) 20. 03:14 PM - Re: Fuel flow stop after unport tank (n85ae) 21. 06:27 PM - Re: Fuel line antifreeze (Tom Jones) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:16 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: November List Fund Raiser A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:59 AM PST US From: "Dave G" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) This was one of the things on my mind when I did not move the header tank from the firewall. When I do an additional fuel pump might be a worthwhile addition. With the old aluminum header close to the pump and roughly the same level or above the carbs it seemed to me that fuel flow was about as assured as possible. The fact that almost everyone else has it way down low behind the seats and experiences no problems is assuring but then most are flying behind fourstrokes with stronger mechanical pumps that the little diaphragm rig the two strokes run. In a static level setup mine flows far in excess of requirements, when the tailwheel is on the ground and the wing tank(s) near empty , fuel flow is marginal/inadequate for the 582 . No filters between the wings and the header in this setup. Dave Goddard KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 1:05 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) > > One of the discoveries that I made while changing to the TBI in place of > the Bing carb, was I hadn't realized how far up the "flow chart" the > carb/TBI was located. With my gravity flow ONLY system, if I have to > point the nose up very steeply with low fuel....like when the header tank > supply is the only fuel available....that fuel will not make it up to the > TBI/carb. You folks with high-mounted carbs are almost certain candidates > for a pumped system. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:33 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) From: "FlyboyTR" Today, I am going to work on the fuel outlet (from the tanks) area of my fuel system. Plan to cut the nipple off the 90 elbow so I can unscrew it, remove the finger strainer and start over with the elbow assembly. What should I use to reseal the finger strainer fitting to the fiberglass tank? Hopefully something I can purchase locally. Second, I will be cutting the root rib (end rib) to the fuel line does NOT run uphill before entering the fuselage! After thinking about this hump...it actually makes for a large area for air to collect. At least I feel like I am making progress with my problem!. :D Travis -------- Travis Rayner Mobile, AL Skystar Vixen, N-789DF Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop ADI-II Autopilot AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270758#270758 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:35 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) I used Permatex Aviation Gasket Maker, or threadsealer, or something like that. It comes in a 4-ounce bottle, I think. The number I really recall is 3H. Dan Mc Intyre just mentioned Permatex 9 AR Tack and Seal, so if that is available, you might try it. The 3H stuff I mentioned is a little bit runny, so I mix it up good, apply it, then let it set up for 10 minutes before screwing the strainers back in. When I first installed my finger strainers 3 years ago, I applied the 3H sealer to the male f'strainer threads, AND to the tanks' internal threads. Then I had to be very careful to insert the f'strainer into the hole without getting any goop onto the screen.....PITA! I got a little tiny bit of goop on the screens, (as I found out when I removed them a couple of weeks ago) but it was only a little and not worth worrying about, but I didn't do that again. This last time I only applied it to the male threads on the f'strainer, and they are holding fine...no leaks. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 805.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs--195 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) On Nov 3, 2009, at 7:38 AM, FlyboyTR wrote: > > Today, I am going to work on the fuel outlet (from the tanks) area > of my fuel system. Plan to cut the nipple off the 90 elbow so I > can unscrew it, remove the finger strainer and start over with the > elbow assembly. > > What should I use to reseal the finger strainer fitting to the > fiberglass tank? Hopefully something I can purchase locally. > > Second, I will be cutting the root rib (end rib) to the fuel line > does NOT run uphill before entering the fuselage! After thinking > about this hump...it actually makes for a large area for air to > collect. > > At least I feel like I am making progress with my problem!. :D > > Travis > > -------- > Travis Rayner > Mobile, AL > Skystar Vixen, N-789DF > Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop > ADI-II Autopilot > AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270758#270758 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:35 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) From: "Tom Jones" > Today, I am going to work on the fuel outlet (from the tanks) area of my fuel system. Plan to cut the nipple off the 90 elbow so I can unscrew it, remove the finger strainer and start over with the elbow assembly. > Travis, after you get the fittings at the tank outlet apart take note of the inside diameter. I'll bet it is 1/4 inch. A couple of those brass fittings for the fuel system that came with my Kit had 1/8th inch inside diameter. Once plumbing is reduced down you will never increase the downstream flow with larger fuel line. I would check the inside diameter of the on/off valves and other fittings in the system too if you haven't already. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270766#270766 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:52 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) From: "FlyboyTR" Thanks Tom & Lynn... My fuel valve is for 5/16 fuel hose. The ID was slightly less than 1/4". I drilled them out to....9/32" ( I believe...). Anyway, just slightly larger than 1/4". I will probably drill out the new elbow and nipple coming out of the tank as well. I plan to push some Goop into the nipple, all the way into the elbow, prior to cutting it with the rotary tool. At least...should i have a spark from the cutting wheel (or spark from the motor) it will be isolated from the tank. Don't need no excitement today! I'll report on the results. If you don't hear from me...you will know it probably didn't go well! [Shocked] Travis :) -------- Travis Rayner Mobile, AL Skystar Vixen, N-789DF Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop ADI-II Autopilot AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270772#270772 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:39 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed From: "akflyer" I was thinking more about this ( I know it hurt my head and it is scary). Each coil feeds one front and one rear plug. If both front plugs are weak, then either the plugs are bad, or the plug wires or caps are bad. The stator is putting out juice to the coils fine if both rear plugs are firing good. Is there any black around the tops of the front plugs? Any chance you could post a pic of the wires and plugs? -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry aka SNAKE Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1450 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270774#270774 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:55 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: full lotus float flying From: "akflyer" Yesterday we had to go into a nasty little area to do some field repairs on my buddies KF II. He had a little issue on take off when he flattened the pitch way out on his in-flight adjustable prop. He thought the higher RPMS would help get him off the water but there was not enough trust to actually fly (yes he had it screaming that much).. I watched in horror as he tried 6 takeoff attempts and did not bother turning his radio on so he could not hear me screaming to add pitch.. the end result was a banged up wingtip. Lotsa gorilla tape to put the tip and covering back together and ratchet straps to hold the floats square as he broke 2 of the flying wires. Link to pics and a you tube vid of me ferrying tools, heater, etc from a longer strip where we had the short wing piper death trap we used for a mule to get him and supplies back to his plane the next day. One more lesson we have learned while chasing those dang ole green head mallards around the tundra. http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/423-banged-up-kitfox/ -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry aka SNAKE Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1450 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270778#270778 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:47 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) From: "Tom Jones" > I plan to push some Goop into the nipple, all the way into the elbow, prior to cutting it with the rotary tool. At least...should i have a spark from the cutting wheel (or spark from the motor) it will be isolated from the tank. Don't need no excitement today! Purge the tank. I had some welding done near the panel fuel tank on my kitfox. It was done at the Skystar factory. Their welder just purged it with compressed air. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270779#270779 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:37 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Leaky Header tank From: "akflyer" I got one of the header tanks from kitfox last year and the sealant that was on the bushing from KF started leaking about 5 hrs after I put fuel in it. I drained it and used "fuel lube" (available at most FBO or AC Spruce) on all fittings and tightened them as much as I dared. The header tank has been full of fuel and has not leaked in over a year now. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry aka SNAKE Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1450 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270780#270780 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:32 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 11/01/09 From: "akflyer" When trailering my Avid, I put the tail on the trailer, fold the wings then use the siphon hose to get the fuel out of the wings. When the tail is up, the fuel will run right to the front of the tank and I can suck it all out without having to try and get the hose to the back corner of the tank. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry aka SNAKE Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1450 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270781#270781 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:36 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel line antifreeze I know that ethanol and isopropyl are 2 different things, but, does having ethanol in auto gas prevent water in fuel from freezing like isopropyl does. In other words, is there still a need for isoprpyl to prevent fuel line and carb bowl icing. Note, I am aware of the draw backs of any kind of alcohol in aircraft fuel so please don't lecture me on that. Aaron Gustafson ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:04 AM PST US From: "Dave G" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed This is just a theory based on some past experience, I want to stress that while I know the theory is true, I do not know this to be the source of this or in fact any problem, this is standard practice throughout the world, but the Ducati ignition is not exactly a powerhouse. The bulk of a spark is DC electricity and as such has a much easier time leaving a sparkplug tip to go to the block than it has leaving the base electrode to the tip. It may be that closing the gap to the minimum specified gap will improve things significantly. In practice the easier spark is when the tip is NEG and the block is POS, but in our round trip systems this can only be true for one set of plugs. I have had motorcycles that would completely fail to run high throttle openings with a wide gap. ----- Original Message ----- From: "akflyer" Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:39 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed > > I was thinking more about this ( I know it hurt my head and it is scary). > Each coil feeds one front and one rear plug. If both front plugs are > weak, then either the plugs are bad, or the plug wires or caps are bad. > The stator is putting out juice to the coils fine if both rear plugs are > firing good. > > Is there any black around the tops of the front plugs? Any chance you > could post a pic of the wires and plugs? > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1450 > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270774#270774 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:50 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) From: "FlyboyTR" Tom, I know some folks will weld and cut after just blowing out a tank with compressed air... However, since I do frequent welding and cutting for friends, and I have headr of, and seen, several tanks explode (not by my doing). Blowing it out with compressed air really doesn't purge the tank. If there is ANY fuel in a seam, or even a damp area it is a recipe for disaster. :? Way back when, I used to weld on race car tanks with fuel in them. However, I had a 3 HP Clinton engine that I ran VERY rich...barely running...and ran a line from the exhaust and down into the fuel tank I was working on. The carbon monoxide would displace/replace any O2 and a fire or explosion was no threat. Never had a problem...however, I wouldn't do it now.[Shocked] ...strange how things change with time! I'm not saying is can't be done that way...it's just not a safe practice (IMHO). ...sorry ya'll...didn't mean to go off topic! [quote="Tom Jones"] > > Purge the tank. I had some welding done near the panel fuel tank on my kitfox. It was done at the Skystar factory. Their welder just purged it with compressed air. -------- Travis Rayner Mobile, AL Skystar Vixen, N-789DF Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop ADI-II Autopilot AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270795#270795 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:40 AM PST US From: "verizon" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed Actually talked to mechanic at leaf and he said caps on plug wires go all the time and gave me an ohm reading to test them. He also gave me some other testing ohm settings so will have to get back to ya'll on what i find. My head is hurting too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "akflyer" Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:39 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed > > I was thinking more about this ( I know it hurt my head and it is scary). > Each coil feeds one front and one rear plug. If both front plugs are > weak, then either the plugs are bad, or the plug wires or caps are bad. > The stator is putting out juice to the coils fine if both rear plugs are > firing good. > > Is there any black around the tops of the front plugs? Any chance you > could post a pic of the wires and plugs? > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1450 > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270774#270774 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:01 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: pitot tube From: bob noffs hi all, what inside diameter for a piot tube is being used successfully? thanks bob noffs ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:27 PM PST US From: "Dave G" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ducatti Ignition Coil Needed One other thing I thought of, it may be wrong to assume that because a spark appears weak at cranking speed it will therefore be weak at running speed. Remember you are working with an excited system here, meaning the coil packs are powered directly by the output of the alternator coils. The power available to coil packs will increase to a fair degree as the engine increases from cranking speed. I would vote almost instantly to run at least one of the ignitions from battery power if the choice were available. That will likely never happen. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:35 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Problems, Again! (Vixen, Series-5) Ok, Travis, I can't let ya get by with just *your* story...gotta throw one of mine in there, too. I was severely lowering (chopped, channelled, and sectioned) a 1950 Oldsmobile Holiday Coupe (God, I wish I had that now, in stock condition!), and decided to put the fuel filler neck inside the trunk, so I stuffed wet rags down inside the filler neck below where I was going to cut it with a hacksaw. I had prepared the wet rags by rolling them together, then wrapping a 1/16" welding wire around them, leaving the long end of the wire sticking out of the filler neck. I them sawed the neck apart, avoiding cutting the wire, and rotated the neck so it was about 180 from where it started, and pointing inside the trunk. Then I re-wet the rags, fired up the torch and welded the neck back on, pulled on the wire and out came the rags and most of the hacksaw droppings. Hey, maybe this is where I started to appreciate fuel filters! You know, like the ones on our Kitfox's (to stay on topic). Speaking of which, I dropped into KFPK Charlotte, Michigan, while flying today, and the IA there said he was restoring a Model III with a (of course) Rotax 80 hp engine. I'll check back with him in a few months and see how it goes. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 807.7 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~193 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) On Nov 3, 2009, at 11:34 AM, FlyboyTR wrote: > Way back when, I used to weld on race car tanks with fuel in them. > However, I had a 3 HP Clinton engine that I ran VERY rich...barely > running...and ran a line from the exhaust and down into the fuel > tank I was working on. The carbon monoxide would displace/replace > any O2 and a fire or explosion was no threat. Never had a > problem...however, I wouldn't do it now.[Shocked] ...strange how > things change with time! ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:48 PM PST US From: "JC Propeller Design" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: pitot tube It doesn't matter what diameter, the static + dynamic pressure will be the same. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: bob noffs To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:39 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: pitot tube hi all, what inside diameter for a piot tube is being used successfully? thanks bob noffs __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4567 (20091102) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur e database 4567 (20091102) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:03 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: pitot tube Bob, My factory pitot tube from Kitfox is 0.25" od and 0.182 id. aluminum tube. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob noffs" Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:39 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: pitot tube > hi all, > what inside diameter for a piot tube is being used successfully? > thanks bob noffs > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:12 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel flow stop after unport tank From: "n85ae" There was a post on the Zenith list a while back where the guy did extensive pressure measurement recording of the internal pressure in both tanks in flight and he found significant pressure difference from side to side, EVEN with the same vented caps. So I think it's probably a lot more complicated than it would seem. I have a a header low warning, and I ignore the differences between the tanks in flight. Once I get down below 1/4 fuel remaining it starts flickering more and more. I've stood on a rudder pedal until the tanks were balanced, but once the foot comes off it goes right back where it wants to be. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270850#270850 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:48 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel line antifreeze From: "Tom Jones" Aaron, I know ethanol will absorb water but I'm not sure if it will prevent it from freezing. You could put some water in a sample, and put it in the freezer to find out. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270876#270876 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.