Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:16 AM - Contributions Down By 21%... (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:54 AM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 05:02 AM - Re: Metal panels under stab (W Duke)
3. 06:25 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (kenjrichter)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (paul perry)
5. 07:11 AM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (Roger Lee)
6. 07:33 AM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (Lowell Fitt)
7. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: Rotax spark plugsRotax spark plugsRotax spark plugs (Joel Mapes)
8. 08:06 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (akflyer)
9. 08:12 AM - Re: Metal panels under stab (akflyer)
10. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Metal panels under stab (Dave G)
11. 08:57 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (kenjrichter)
12. 09:25 AM - Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Av8r3400)
13. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Lynn Matteson)
14. 10:57 AM - Changing engines (akflyer)
15. 11:14 AM - wing attachment (jlno7@aim.com)
16. 11:31 AM - Re: Changing engines (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
17. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Rotax spark plugs (Clint Bazzill)
18. 11:59 AM - Anti-Seize (Clint Bazzill)
19. 12:02 PM - Re: Engine Restraint Cable (akflyer)
20. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Clint Bazzill)
21. 01:19 PM - Re: Changing engines (akflyer)
22. 01:20 PM - Re: Changing engines (Mike Chaney)
23. 02:04 PM - Re: Changing engines (Av8r3400)
24. 02:09 PM - Re: Changing engines (akflyer)
25. 03:15 PM - Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Tex Mantell)
26. 03:53 PM - Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Av8r3400)
27. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Lynn Matteson)
28. 05:24 PM - Re: kitfox 3 (kenjrichter)
29. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Lynn Matteson)
30. 07:21 PM - Oil Cooler Thermostat (frank3phyl@comcast.net)
31. 08:25 PM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (paul perry)
32. 08:58 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Thermostat (Maurice)
33. 09:31 PM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (Roger Lee)
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| Subject: | Contributions Down By 21%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover
my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income
to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the
expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I
also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related
data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and
the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter
of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs
and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments,
make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you
can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the
continuation of these services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
Roger is correct,the silicone paste used on the plugs is not the same
formulation as the common silicone grease you find in hardware stores,Radio Shack
etc.This information came from Lockwood as I addressed it specifically in
Rotax engine class. I too have a "truck load" of the standard stuff but was
told not to use it.
You use very little of the heat transfer compound on each plug. I have
done two spark plug changes and still have plenty left out of that little
packet. As mentioned the stuff is available at Lockwood,Leading Edge,CPS and I
am
sure other Rotax dealers.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
912 UL
Milton,Fl
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Metal panels under stab |
Knock on wood but I have not lost one in 500 hours.- That is not to say t
hat I don't have a screw loose.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Metal panels under stab
Dave,
That is what I used on my model IV.- I used screws about 3/4" long and on
ce in a while they would back out a thread or two, but I never lost one in
900 hours.- After getting tired of tighening them from time to time, I us
ed some medium thread locker on the screws.- No problems then.
Lowell
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave G" <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Metal panels under stab
Mine look for all the world like the original method of fastening was using
very course sheet metal screws in the tabs in the (poor) cellphone photo.
Is this what everyone uses? It seems to me they'll fall out and end up in a
nother aircraft's tire.
Dave Goddard
KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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Thanks for the response Michel and the question was about Subaru but I am interested
in any info about the model 3, I flew a Jabiru in a Titan for a while and
I really liked the engine light and powerfull but also expensive not as bad
as the 912 but unfortunatley too much for my budget unless a cheap used one shows
up,I think for now I will keep flying the 582 after hearing from Deke and
others and reading some archives about the engine I fell better about it, I am
really interested in how Murle williams modified the wing on his model 3 for
more speed I looked up the sport aviation article on this and it looks like he
just glued the half 1" pvc to the leading edge and feathered it in and left the
rest of the wing alone if thats really all he did I would consider this but
I will need more info before I try it hopefully I will hear back from him.
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273118#273118
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
Could someone explain why anti-seize is not to be used on the spark plug threads
in the 912 series engines as I would like to pass the info on to my A&P. Thanks,
Paul Perry KFIV Speedster 912UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273119#273119
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
anti-seize is the wrong chemical compound and it is designed to lubricate and not
transfer heat as a primary function. We care about even heat transfer and that's
not what anti seize does.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273130#273130
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
I have a question.
What is it about the Rotax technology that it requires proprietary heat
transfer compound on the spark plugs. Is it something like only using
genuine Rotax oil filters? Or genuine GM parts on my car? Or the factory
recommendation that my wife's car only run on name brand gas? - we discuss
this pretty often.
I am a born skeptic, I guess, but intelligent enough to understand an
explanation. if there is one. I ran my old 912 using graphited antisieze on
the plugs, but of course, this began long before Rotax began conducting -
and charging for, I might add - their maintenance seminars.
Can someone give a real rason other than Rotax recommends it?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <Catz631@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax spark plugs
> Roger is correct,the silicone paste used on the plugs is not the same
> formulation as the common silicone grease you find in hardware
> stores,Radio Shack
> etc.This information came from Lockwood as I addressed it specifically in
> Rotax engine class. I too have a "truck load" of the standard stuff but
> was
> told not to use it.
> You use very little of the heat transfer compound on each plug. I have
> done two spark plug changes and still have plenty left out of that little
> packet. As mentioned the stuff is available at Lockwood,Leading Edge,CPS
> and I am
> sure other Rotax dealers.
> Dick Maddux
> Fox 4
> 912 UL
> Milton,Fl
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugsRotax spark plugsRotax spark plugs |
It is also available in smaller quantities at Radio Shack
http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=silicone%20paste
&origkw=silicone%20paste&sr=1
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&cre
a=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
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Kitfox has a PVC leading edge that glues on and gets covered over. Does clean
up the leading edge a bit. It is not too expensive and installs easily!
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273140#273140
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Metal panels under stab |
[/quote]
Dave, yes that is the original installation method. The tabs are so hardened from
the welding that even the stainless sheet metal screws strip out. I kept
finding a few loose screws on each preflight so I switched to J-nuts with machine
screws.
Here's an example.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/04-00152.php[/quote]
Stainless Steel is softer than Carbon Steel until you get into some of the exotic,
or duplex alloys.
FWIW, the 2 kitfoxes I have worked on just had SS sheet metal screws and they have
never come loose.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273147#273147
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Metal panels under stab |
Ok Thanks. I will re-apply the original stainless sheet metal screws with a
threadlock compound. I was not concerned for the panels, just for the
tires/safety of others. Sheet metal screws love tires.
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:10 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Metal panels under stab
>
> [/quote]
>
> Dave, yes that is the original installation method. The tabs are so
> hardened from the welding that even the stainless sheet metal screws strip
> out. I kept finding a few loose screws on each preflight so I switched to
> J-nuts with machine screws.
>
> Here's an example.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/04-00152.php[/quote]
>
> Stainless Steel is softer than Carbon Steel until you get into some of the
> exotic, or duplex alloys.
>
> FWIW, the 2 kitfoxes I have worked on just had SS sheet metal screws and
> they have never come loose.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273147#273147
>
>
>
Message 11
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I have talked to John Mcbean at Kitfox a few times about pricing and installing
a mod 4 wing on my 3 but he never mentioned a pvc leading edge that he could
sell me I will email him and ask about this.
Thanks
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273157#273157
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
Help me understand how this is going to help an emergency situation.
If the engine departs the airframe or the its dangling by a cable or two? Either
way leaves mostly an uncontrollable situation, doesn't it?
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273162#273162
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
I would suggest that a dangling engine is better than losing it
altogether.....think tail heavy if it's gone. If it's dangling by a
cable or two, the last 3-4 feet of landing altitude might get
exciting, but if it's gone, you're gone. At least that's the way I've
imagined it working out.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 814.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~185 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Av8r3400 wrote:
>
> Help me understand how this is going to help an emergency situation.
>
> If the engine departs the airframe or the its dangling by a cable
> or two? Either way leaves mostly an uncontrollable situation,
> doesn't it?
>
> --------
> Thanks,
> Av8r3400
>
> Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
> Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273162#273162
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Changing engines |
OK guys,
I am working on an engine swap, and called he local FSDO to see what I needed to
do as this is a different engine manufacture than what is on my airworthiness
(mine states that it is good with ALL rotax engines).
The local guy said that I needed to go back to the original faa office that gave
approval the kit manufacture ?? Has anyone else gone through this? say a swap
from a rotax to a VW or Subie or some other engine that is not purpose built
for aircraft? I would think that the inspector may want to come out and look
at it, maybe through me back to phase 1 for XX hrs to prove out the engine,
but it should be done on the local level I would think...
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273176#273176
Message 15
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I have a Kitfox one with two modifications. How can I replace the piece
of metal that reinforces two bolts that are used when you fold the
wings out at the leading edge? They look like they have four rivets
each. How can I get to them? On one side is a wing tank and the other
has a storage compartment. The metal pieces are broken on one side and
bent inward on the other side. Do I need to purchase these metal
pieces or can they be fabricated? What gage of metal is used and how
can they be shaped?
Jerry Novak
Pulaski, WI
Message 16
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| Subject: | Changing engines |
I went through this on my Avid B and later on my MK IV Avid when I changed
the 582 out to the Jabiru. Depending when your airworthyness cert was issu
ed=2C different procedures come into play. Some require an FAA inspection
=2C with a more recently issued AW cert it may not. Look in your operating
limitations=2C and it will tell you what you have to do with your plane.
I needed inspections on both of my Avids=2C even when I changed out from a
532 to a 582 on my first B model Avid. Both times the local FSDO did the i
nspections (at no charge)=2C although the B was originaly from Washington a
nd the MK IV was from Michagan. The FAA was really helpfull in all of this
. Take care=2C Jim Chuk
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Changing engines
> From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon=2C 16 Nov 2009 10:54:32 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> OK guys=2C
>
> I am working on an engine swap=2C and called he local FSDO to see what I
needed to do as this is a different engine manufacture than what is on my a
irworthiness (mine states that it is good with ALL rotax engines).
>
> The local guy said that I needed to go back to the original faa office th
at gave approval the kit manufacture ?? Has anyone else gone through this?
say a swap from a rotax to a VW or Subie or some other engine that is not p
urpose built for aircraft? I would think that the inspector may want to com
e out and look at it=2C maybe through me back to phase 1 for XX hrs to prov
e out the engine=2C but it should be done on the local level I would think.
..
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273176#273176
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&cre
a=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
Hi=2C
I am using FEL-PRO N-1000 Nuclear Grade copper graphite anti-sieze lubrican
t. Out of date and got it pretty cheap. Not so if its in date. 1lb can
=2C will last me for 1000 years. Will send some if you need it.
Clint
> From: vr_baker@nvbell.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
> Date: Sun=2C 15 Nov 2009 08:09:20 -0800
>
>
> Anyone out there found silicone heat conductivity paste=2C Rotax p/n 897
186=2C
> for less than $158 for a small tube?
>
>
> Vic Baker
> S7 912S Warp
> Carson City=2C Nv
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday=2C November 14=2C 2009 8:57 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
>
>
> >
> > 582 plug threads are dry because of the aluminum heads and if you apply
> > any lube you will not torque them correctly (correct torque is 238
> > in/lbs)=2C they will be over torqued and it should be on a cold engine
=2C too.
> > (page 11-4 of the 2 stroke maint. manual)
> >
> > --------
> > Roger Lee
> > Tucson=2C Az.
> > Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> > Rotax Service Center
> > 520-574-1080
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272879#272879
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 18
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Check out this=2C good for very high temps=2C I use it all the time.
Clint
http://www.newmantools.com/felpro/n1000.htm
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
I have not had this happen on a "real" plane, but lots of times on models. One
of the local guys builds alot and I do the test flights for him. When we go
into electrics, he though that a good friction fit would hold the engine on...
I flew a few of his variable CG airplanes till I started checking them over real
good before the first flight! He used a plug in harness on one and when the
motor came off, it came unplugged and was gone. She was uncontrollable tail
heavy and came in spinning hard. 2 others he soldered the connections and
when they came off it was just exciting for a few till I got it settled down..
it was kinda like chasing a crane load that starts swinging on ya. Both of those
planes I was able to land in one piece. I know the scale is different, but
I am with Lynn on this one. I would rather have a engine swinging a little
and have a chance to get it on the ground, than to have the engine depart completely
and have no option other than to try to bend over in the cramped cockpit
and kiss your @ss good by!
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273185#273185
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
I do not think you need a cable around the engine on a Rotax powered aircra
ft. I know of 2 props that came apart=2C the vibration was so great that t
he carbs flew off and engine stopped. These engines are not like the heavy
direct drive aircraft engines.
Clint
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Restraint Cable
> From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon=2C 16 Nov 2009 11:56:53 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I have not had this happen on a "real" plane=2C but lots of times on mode
ls. One of the local guys builds alot and I do the test flights for him. Wh
en we go into electrics=2C he though that a good friction fit would hold th
e engine on... I flew a few of his variable CG airplanes till I started che
cking them over real good before the first flight! He used a plug in harnes
s on one and when the motor came off=2C it came unplugged and was gone. She
was uncontrollable tail heavy and came in spinning hard. 2 others he solde
red the connections and when they came off it was just exciting for a few t
ill I got it settled down.. it was kinda like chasing a crane load that sta
rts swinging on ya. Both of those planes I was able to land in one piece. I
know the scale is different=2C but I am with Lynn on this one. I would rat
her have a engine swinging a little and have a chance to get it on the grou
nd=2C than to have the engine depart completely and have no option other th
an to try to bend!
> over in the cramped cockpit and kiss your @ss good by!
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273185#273185
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Changing engines |
Thanks Jim,
I am trying to get ahold of the Seattle MIDA office, and I am sure they will direct
me back to the local office... Fn government cant make anything simple, and
they keep wanting to pawn it off on someone else to do their job.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273197#273197
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Changing engines |
Leonard
-
If I remember correctly when I changed from a Rotax to a Jabiru all I did w
as contact the FSDO office and spoke to, is this case, the same individual
who performed my original inspection.- I think some paperwork exchaned ha
nds and I was good to go.
-
Mike Chaney
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, akflyer <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: akflyer <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Changing engines
OK guys,
I am working on an engine swap, and called he local FSDO to see what I need
ed to do as this is a different engine manufacture than what is on my airwo
rthiness (mine states that it is good with ALL rotax engines).
The local guy said that I needed to go back to the original faa office that
gave approval the kit manufacture ?? Has anyone else gone through this?-
say a swap from a rotax to a VW or Subie or some other engine that is not
purpose built for aircraft?- I would think that the inspector may want to
come out and look at it, maybe through me back to phase 1 for XX hrs to pr
ove out the engine, but it should be done on the local level I would think.
..
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273176#273176
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Changing engines |
I don't know about you and your big two-strokes, Leni.
I still think an 8V71 Detroit is too much motor for an Avid. Maybe okay in a a
Magnum, but not your Mark IV... [Laughing]
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273207#273207
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Changing engines |
prop Tq may be an issue, but dont you worry none, I beefed up the gear legs and
the rudder area to handle it. Thinking the gross weight is gonna be an issue
for some... I aint skeered! [Shocked]
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273208#273208
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
If you ever hit a bird and broke a prop, you would install a cable from
the engine to the firewall.
----- Original Message -----
From: KITFOXZ@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine Restraint Cable
Hello Kitfoxers,
Has anyone ever heard of an engine completely departing from a Kitfox
in flight? Has there ever been an actual case of a cable restraint
system proven in preventing this event? Is employing a cable restraint
system a practical effort or a needless worry?
John
Columbus, Ohio
Series V Outback, 912S
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
Sorry, guys. I'm not getting this at all.
You recommend putting a cable to a light sheet-metal firewall? What will that
do?
Or through the firewall to the airframe? Do you expect the cable to be stronger
than the bolts that bolt the engine mount to the airframe?
Or is the whole purpose of this cable to be a backup in case the rubber engine
mounts tear apart? This seems more likely, but isn't the mount designed to not
completely separate if the rubber is torn out?
I'm not trying to be a wise-guy here, just trying to understand the logic.
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273218#273218
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
Not to blatantly bash the Rotax (just subtly), but from what I've
seen of 'em, there is enough wires, cables, hoses and fuel lines to
probably hold the engine in place. I think that's what kept ....was
it Gary's? ......plane flyable, and let him land after one blade
departed and the resultant vibration shook the engine loose. You old-
timers will recall who I mean. I'm pretty sure that was a Rotax
engine. Seriously though, I'm NOT bashing Rotax, but I wouldn't bet
on any amount of the normal wiring, hoses, etc. to hold ANY engine in
place once the vibration of a less-than-complete prop begins.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 814.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~185 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 16, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
> I do not think you need a cable around the engine on a Rotax
> powered aircraft. I know of 2 props that came apart, the vibration
> was so great that the carbs flew off and engine stopped. These
> engines are not like the heavy direct drive aircraft engines.
>
> Clint
>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Restraint Cable
> > From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com
> > Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:56:53 -0800
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I have not had this happen on a "real" plane, but lots of times
> on models. One of the local guys builds alot and I do the test
> flights for him. When we go into electrics, he though that a good
> friction fit would hold the engine on... I flew a few of his
> variable CG airplanes till I started checking them over real good
> before the first flight! He used a plug in harness on one and when
> the motor came off, it came unplugged and was gone. She was
> uncontrollable tail heavy and came in spinning hard. 2 others he
> soldered the connections and when they came off it was just
> exciting for a few till I got it settled down.. it was kinda like
> chasing a crane load that starts swinging on ya. Both of those
> planes I was able to land in one piece. I know the scale is
> different, but I am with Lynn on this one. I would rather have a
> engine swinging a little and have a chance to get it on the ground,
> than to have the engine depart completely and have no option other
> than to try to bend!
> > over in the cramped cockpit and kiss your @ss good by!
> >
> > --------
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> > Soldotna AK
> > Avid "C" / Mk IV
> > 582 IVO IFA
> > Full Lotus 1450
> > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
> >
> > hander outer of humorless darwin awards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273185#273185
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >=============
> >
> >
> >
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 28
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I emailed John at Kitfox about the leading edge and they do sell a leading edge
pvc piece that looks like the mod that Murle williams made with 1' pvc pipe but
its molded so you don't need any filler I am planning on ordering this soon
and installing it, I checked my Kitfox tonight with almost no wind and I get
about 80mph gps confirmed at 5500 rpm I will post the results with the leading
edge mod and no other changes.
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273224#273224
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
Putting a cable "TO" the firewall won't do a damn thing except wreck
your once-pretty firewall. Putting the cable "through" the firewall,
around some tubing members and back out through the firewall, around
some substantial partof the engine where it can't slip off....through
an unused hole, etc.,....then bring the cable ends together and
parallel to each other, and use cable u-bolts/cable clamps to secure
the ends together. At least that's the way I did mine.
The idea is to require the cable to break a weld, tear a piece of
airframe out, or do some other catastrophic damage in order to come
free with the engine. Maybe it'll just slow things down a bit....kind
of like an energy absorbing device. If some of that flailing engines'
energy is subdued, you stand a better chance of writing about the
incident on this forum....after a change of skivvies.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 814.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~185 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 16, 2009, at 6:51 PM, Av8r3400 wrote:
>
> Sorry, guys. I'm not getting this at all.
>
>
> You recommend putting a cable to a light sheet-metal firewall?
> What will that do?
>
> Or through the firewall to the airframe? Do you expect the cable
> to be stronger than the bolts that bolt the engine mount to the
> airframe?
>
> Or is the whole purpose of this cable to be a backup in case the
> rubber engine mounts tear apart? This seems more likely, but isn't
> the mount designed to not completely separate if the rubber is torn
> out?
>
>
> I'm not trying to be a wise-guy here, just trying to understand the
> logic.
>
> --------
> Thanks,
> Av8r3400
>
> Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
> Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273218#273218
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler Thermostat |
I'm about to install an oil cooler thermostat on a 912S, Series 7.=C2- I'
d appreciate any input on lessons learned, particularly on routing oil hose
s=C2-and anchoring the thermostat & hoses.
Frank
Series 7, 912S, Ivo In-Flt adj prop
N5929
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
Thanks, Roger for responding, but I guess what I'm asking is why? Do the spark
plugs in a Rotax get hotter than those in Lyc's and Cont's or are the NGK spark
plugs more likely to be damaged by heat than those used in the other engines?
Like Lowell...some explanation other than "just because Rotax said so" Paul
Perry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273249#273249
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Thermostat |
I mounted the Lockwood oil thermostat, upside down on the left rear
cylinder head with an Adel clamp and short extension ( similar to Adel
clamp mounting of oil line to the oil cooler to the left front cylinder
head ), and close to the oil tank. The oil lines support the light oil
thermostat well. The Adel clamp just assuages my worrying nature.
This allows the oil lines that go to and return from the oil cooler at
the front of the engine to connect at the forward end of the thermostat.
The thermostat is mounted upside down to allow the bottom rear oil line
to the oil pump to pass easily under the crankcase, and the oil supply
from the oil tank to be at the same level with the upper rear connection
to the thermostat. Lockwood told me that upside down mounting was fine
as long as you were careful to purge all of the air out of the system.
My oil cooler is on the front of the engine and my coolant radiator is
on the lower rear of the engine.
When all is done I plan to zip tie everything together to control
movement.
Maurice
Series 7A, 912S, IVO 72" medium GA, Building
----- Original Message -----
From: frank3phyl@comcast.net
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 7:18 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil Cooler Thermostat
I'm about to install an oil cooler thermostat on a 912S, Series 7.
I'd appreciate any input on lessons learned, particularly on routing oil
hoses and anchoring the thermostat & hoses.
Frank
Series 7, 912S, Ivo In-Flt adj prop
N5929
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
First Rotax is the expert and Mfg. They have hundreds of thousands of hours of
actual flight data and testing, not to mention millions of $$$ in testing and
the Mfg of the 912 engine since late 1989.
How much of this do any of us have? Who has the facilities here to run an engine
day in and out and the instruments to collect the data?
Second maybe the rest of the old timers haven't caught up to newer ideas and technology,
which is definitely the case in a lot of GA stuff. If you make a change
you are liable and you have to invest tons of money for testing and STC's.
That's one big reason you don't see big progressive changes in the GA engine
stuff.
If anyone chooses to experiment with their $18.5K engine then it's ok. This is
also where they get good data on things not to do, from the guys that like to
experiment. I think spending $3 on a little tube of heat conducting paste makes
good sense and a good investment.
The plugs don't get hotter. All we are trying to do is make the heads and plugs
heat and transfer of the heat the same. By doing so you get a better marriage
between heads and plugs.
I don't quite understand why people are so reluctant to follow proven practices
from an MFG that cost so little and is so easy. We have all invested so much
time, money and education in our hobby, why stop on our on going educational process.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273255#273255
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