Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:22 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:35 AM - Re: Re: Rotax spark plugs (fox5flyer)
3. 04:48 AM - Re: wing attachment (W Duke)
4. 06:42 AM - Re: wing attachment (Tom Jones)
5. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Rotax spark plugs (Lowell Fitt)
6. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Rotax spark plugs (sourdostan@aol.com)
7. 08:34 AM - Re: wing attachment (akflyer)
8. 09:13 AM - engine cable (EMAproducts@aol.com)
9. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay (Guy Buchanan)
10. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay (Patrick Reilly)
11. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: wing attachment (Cecil Stokesberry)
12. 01:41 PM - Re: wing attachment (akflyer)
13. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay (Marco Menezes)
14. 02:26 PM - Re: wing attachment (akflyer)
15. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: wing attachment (Jose M. Toro)
16. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay (Patrick Reilly)
17. 03:03 PM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (Noelloveys)
18. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Noelloveys)
19. 03:19 PM - Re: Anti-Seize (Noelloveys)
20. 04:00 PM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (akflyer)
21. 04:11 PM - Re: Changing engines (akflyer)
22. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Rotax spark plugs (Noelloveys)
23. 04:34 PM - Re: Rotax spark plugs (Roger Lee)
24. 04:37 PM - Re: Engine Restraint Cable (akflyer)
25. 06:56 PM - Re: Engine Restraint Cable (dave)
26. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay (fox5flyer)
27. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Clint Bazzill)
28. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Clint Bazzill)
29. 08:27 PM - Re: Re: Engine Restraint Cable (Patrick Reilly)
30. 09:41 PM - Re: Re: Changing engines (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
Message 1
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> From: kenjrichter [kenrichter@centurytel.net]
> I will keep flying the 582
Perhaps a good decision, Ken. I am on holidays and haven't followed the thread
but I was once told that I was foolish to fly a two-stroke engine in the Norwegian
mountains and I changed my 582 with 270 hours for a Jabiru. I am very pleased
with the Jabiru but my 582 that I sold to the club's Rans aicraft, flew another
300 hours without problems. It is a very good engine too. It requires a
bit more maintainance, perhaps, but if you love your Kitfox you must also learn
to love your engine and treat it like a mistress! :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3- Jabiru 2200
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
Roger, I don't think this is about experimentation at all. It's just that
so often someone jumps in here with an absolute statement about something
that needs to be done or something bad will happen. I used the word "will"
because that's how it usually comes across. It seems that much of this
comes from someone who read it somewhere on the internet so it makes us a
bit skeptical and usually all we ask for is some data to back it up. Other
than Rotax says so, none has been provided here.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) who actually
earned it.--
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:24 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
>
> First Rotax is the expert and Mfg. They have hundreds of thousands of
> hours of actual flight data and testing, not to mention millions of $$$ in
> testing and the Mfg of the 912 engine since late 1989.
> How much of this do any of us have? Who has the facilities here to run an
> engine day in and out and the instruments to collect the data?
> Second maybe the rest of the old timers haven't caught up to newer ideas
> and technology, which is definitely the case in a lot of GA stuff. If you
> make a change you are liable and you have to invest tons of money for
> testing and STC's. That's one big reason you don't see big progressive
> changes in the GA engine stuff.
> If anyone chooses to experiment with their $18.5K engine then it's ok.
> This is also where they get good data on things not to do, from the guys
> that like to experiment. I think spending $3 on a little tube of heat
> conducting paste makes good sense and a good investment.
> The plugs don't get hotter. All we are trying to do is make the heads and
> plugs heat and transfer of the heat the same. By doing so you get a better
> marriage between heads and plugs.
>
> I don't quite understand why people are so reluctant to follow proven
> practices from an MFG that cost so little and is so easy. We have all
> invested so much time, money and education in our hobby, why stop on our
> on going educational process.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Service Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273255#273255
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: wing attachment |
I'd bet John McBean at Kitfox has some.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, jlno7@aim.com <jlno7@aim.com> wrote:
From: jlno7@aim.com <jlno7@aim.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: wing attachment
I have a Kitfox one with two modifications. How can I replace the piece of
metal that reinforces two bolts that are used when you fold the wings out a
t the leading edge?- They look like they have four rivets each.- How ca
n I get to them?- On one side is a wing tank and the other has a storage
compartment.- The metal pieces are broken on one side and bent inward on
the other side.- Do I need to purchase these metal pieces or can they be
fabricated?- What gage of metal is used and how can they be shaped?
Jerry Novak
Pulaski, WI
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: wing attachment |
> I have a Kitfox one with two modifications. How can I replace the piece
> of metal that reinforces two bolts that are used when you fold the
> wings out at the leading edge? They look like they have four rivets
> each. How can I get to them? On one side is a wing tank and the other
> has a storage compartment. The metal pieces are broken on one side and
> bent inward on the other side. Do I need to purchase these metal
> pieces or can they be fabricated? What gage of metal is used and how
> can they be shaped?
>
> Jerry Novak
> Pulaski, WI
Jerry, I agree with the advice to contact Kitfox LLC. Those wing attach reinforcement
pieces are curved to match the inside of the spar and are zinc coated.
They come as rectangular pieces that you shape and drill the holes in.
The butt rib needs to come off to remove the old and replace the new inserts.
It looks like a daunting job but it can be done. Not too bad a job if you have
experience building a wing. The epoxy will soften with heat from a heat gun.
[/b]You must not scratch the spar with any kind of metal scraping tool when removing
the old epoxy. Some micro baloons are mixed in the new epoxy to prevent
the dissimilar metals from touching. You need the instructions from kitfox LLC
if you can't find someone with experience to coach you through it.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273278#273278
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
Roger,
I can agree with a lot of what you said. Then you finish with a comment on
proven practices. My suggestion here is that the vast majority of Rotax
users have transferred their hot rod or home maintenance procedures to their
Rotax engines and have simply used anti sieze lube on thier plugs for at
least 75% of probably millions of flight hours.
Then there is the apples and oranges thing. Evans coolant has become one
of the latest Rotax recommendations (read rages). Evans is a high temp
coolant with a lower heat carrying capacity than the 50% blend traditionally
used. Why was it introduced? Because in some installations, the Rotax
engines have been found to run hotter than in other installations causing
vapor pockets and damaged engines. Rans, for example in some models, have
cooling issues especially in climb. I have followed some that used a
protracted step climb to get over high mountains where the Kitfoxes in the
flight simply climb to altitude. Do I feel a need for Evans Coolant, of
course not. My problem always was to get the oil temps to the recommended
212 to remove the moisture from the oil. I simply don't need a high temp
coolant.
I think this argument can also be made for the heat sink compound. Our
engines, at least in the Model IV (I have no personal experience with the
internal radiator found in the later models) Our engines run on the cool
side of the heat range. I don't watch my sodium intake because my Blood
Pressure runs on the low side. What I mean by that last comment, is that
there are very few pieces of advice where one size fits all. Take the 912UL
vs. the 912ULS, for example. I suspect with the higher compression, the ULS
will run a bit hotter. It might be appropriate to consider a heat
transferring lube on the plug threads, then again if my engine runs on the
cool side, what's the point. I had 900 hours on my old engine. I changed
the plugs at the recommended intervals and had the same boring insulator
colors that everyone else had. Did I damage my engine? I seriously doubt
it. But, then again, would I damage the water cooled head, or the $3.00
spark plug if it wasn't cooled adequately. And I repeat, Honda recommends
name brand gas in my wife's Civic Hybrid. The latest issue if AAA magazine
quotes a petrolium engineer to the effect that with the EPA mandates on
detergents etc. in all fuels, there is very little difference in brands and
likely no difference at all because even the independents purchase their
fuels on the open marked and might sell Chevron one day and Texaco the next.
I don't feel comfortable making decisions for others, but for me and my new
project - 912UL - I see no need to worry about one more thing.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 9:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
>
> First Rotax is the expert and Mfg. They have hundreds of thousands of
> hours of actual flight data and testing, not to mention millions of $$$ in
> testing and the Mfg of the 912 engine since late 1989.
> How much of this do any of us have? Who has the facilities here to run an
> engine day in and out and the instruments to collect the data?
> Second maybe the rest of the old timers haven't caught up to newer ideas
> and technology, which is definitely the case in a lot of GA stuff. If you
> make a change you are liable and you have to invest tons of money for
> testing and STC's. That's one big reason you don't see big progressive
> changes in the GA engine stuff.
> If anyone chooses to experiment with their $18.5K engine then it's ok.
> This is also where they get good data on things not to do, from the guys
> that like to experiment. I think spending $3 on a little tube of heat
> conducting paste makes good sense and a good investment.
> The plugs don't get hotter. All we are trying to do is make the heads and
> plugs heat and transfer of the heat the same. By doing so you get a better
> marriage between heads and plugs.
>
> I don't quite understand why people are so reluctant to follow proven
> practices from an MFG that cost so little and is so easy. We have all
> invested so much time, money and education in our hobby, why stop on our
> on going educational process.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Service Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273255#273255
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
Well stated, Lowell. 1600 hours on my 912ul using anti-sieze lube and eve
rything appears to be doing well.
Stan Specht
Model IV Speedster 912ul 1600 hrs.
Lakewood, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 8:57 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
Roger,
I can agree with a lot of what you said. Then you finish with a comment
on
proven practices. My suggestion here is that the vast majority of Rotax
users have transferred their hot rod or home maintenance procedures to the
ir
Rotax engines and have simply used anti sieze lube on thier plugs for at
least 75% of probably millions of flight hours.
Then there is the apples and oranges thing. Evans coolant has become one
of the latest Rotax recommendations (read rages). Evans is a high temp
coolant with a lower heat carrying capacity than the 50% blend traditional
ly
used. Why was it introduced? Because in some installations, the Rotax
engines have been found to run hotter than in other installations causing
vapor pockets and damaged engines. Rans, for example in some models, have
cooling issues especially in climb. I have followed some that used a
protracted step climb to get over high mountains where the Kitfoxes in the
flight simply climb to altitude. Do I feel a need for Evans Coolant, of
course not. My problem always was to get the oil temps to the recommended
212=C2=B0 to remove the moisture from the oil. I simply don't need a high
temp
coolant.
I think this argument can also be made for the heat sink compound. Our
engines, at least in the Model IV (I have no personal experience with the
internal radiator found in the later models) Our engines run on the cool
side of the heat range. I don't watch my sodium intake because my Blood
Pressure runs on the low side. What I mean by that last comment, is that
there are very few pieces of advice where one size fits all. Take the 912
UL
vs. the 912ULS, for example. I suspect with the higher compression, the
ULS
will run a bit hotter. It might be appropriate to consider a heat
transferring lube on the plug threads, then again if my engine runs on the
cool side, what's the point. I had 900 hours on my old engine. I changed
the plugs at the recommended intervals and had the same boring insulator
colors that everyone else had. Did I damage my engine? I seriously doubt
it. But, then again, would I damage the water cooled head, or the $3.00
spark plug if it wasn't cooled adequately. And I repeat, Honda recommends
name brand gas in my wife's Civic Hybrid. The latest issue if AAA magazin
e
quotes a petrolium engineer to the effect that with the EPA mandates on
detergents etc. in all fuels, there is very little difference in brands an
d
likely no difference at all because even the independents purchase their
fuels on the open marked and might sell Chevron one day and Texaco the nex
t.
I don't feel comfortable making decisions for others, but for me and my ne
w
project - 912UL - I see no need to worry about one more thing.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 9:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
>
> First Rotax is the expert and Mfg. They have hundreds of thousands of
> hours of actual flight data and testing, not to mention millions of $$$
in
> testing and the Mfg of the 912 engine since late 1989.
> How much of this do any of us have? Who has the facilities here to run
an
> engine day in and out and the instruments to collect the data?
> Second maybe the rest of the old timers haven't caught up to newer ideas
> and technology, which is definitely the case in a lot of GA stuff. If yo
u
> make a change you are liable and you have to invest tons of money for
> testing and STC's. That's one big reason you don't see big progressive
> changes in the GA engine stuff.
> If anyone chooses to experiment with their $18.5K engine then it's ok.
> This is also where they get good data on things not to do, from the guys
> that like to experiment. I think spending $3 on a little tube of heat
> conducting paste makes good sense and a good investment.
> The plugs don't get hotter. All we are trying to do is make the heads an
d
> plugs heat and transfer of the heat the same. By doing so you get a bett
er
> marriage between heads and plugs.
>
> I don't quite understand why people are so reluctant to follow proven
> practices from an MFG that cost so little and is so easy. We have all
> invested so much time, money and education in our hobby, why stop on our
> on going educational process.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Service Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273255#273255
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: wing attachment |
I will try and find the supplier that I had bookmarked. I remember finding a source
that had a round insert that had the tangs cut into it. Instead of just
the two tangs that rivet inside, this was a round sleeve that went into the root
end and was meant to repair ends that the holes had been wobbled out etc.
Looked like a real slick way to replace the two separate tangs.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273298#273298
Message 8
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Do a weight and balance without engine and becomes apparent
Help me understand how this is going to help an emergency situation.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay |
At 05:42 PM 11/15/2009, you wrote:
>Furthermore you have had the same advice from myself as others
>
> >>> REMOVE THE FALSE AND MISLEADING AD FROM EBAY !!
All,
This thread is officially closed. It appears all
clarifications have occurred, Ebay and the seller have been notified
and the seller has responded. Any further discussion must be private.
Please do not post again on this subject lest you be suspended or
removed from the list.
Thank you,
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay |
Guy, What took you so long? Do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
> At 05:42 PM 11/15/2009, you wrote:
>
> Furthermore you have had the same advice from myself as others
>
> >>> REMOVE THE FALSE AND MISLEADING AD FROM EBAY !!
>
>
> All,
> This thread is officially closed. It appears all clarifications
> have occurred, Ebay and the seller have been notified and the seller has
> responded. Any further discussion must be private. Please do not post again
> on this subject lest you be suspended or removed from the list.
>
> Thank you,
>
> *Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
> *San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: wing attachment |
Snake.
I think you are referring to Accipiter Aviation. I have their catalog dated
1998.
Ph 303-828-4681 P.O. Box 505; Erie, Colorado 80516.
I hav'nt heard about them for quite a while.
The had some very interesting items for us builders, including "spar
mounting brackets"
they are stainless steel cylinders that slip into the spar tubes,
very nice but pricie $330.00.
Hope this helps.
Cecil in North Idaho
Kitfox Md IV 582 C 1050
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 8:32 AM, akflyer <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I will try and find the supplier that I had bookmarked. I remember finding
> a source that had a round insert that had the tangs cut into it. Instead of
> just the two tangs that rivet inside, this was a round sleeve that went into
> the root end and was meant to repair ends that the holes had been wobbled
> out etc. Looked like a real slick way to replace the two separate tangs.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273298#273298
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: wing attachment |
That could very well have been them, but I know I saw them online last year when
I was searching for some other wing parts.
It would not be very hard to make the sleeves.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273333#273333
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay |
That's it-Reilly, you're out! ;-)
-
do not archive
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 11/17/09, Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay
Guy, What took you so long?-- Do not archive
-
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
At 05:42 PM 11/15/2009, you wrote:
Furthermore you have had the same advice from myself as others
>>>- REMOVE THE FALSE AND MISLEADING AD FROM EBAY- !!-
All,
--------This thread is officially closed. It appears all cl
arifications have occurred, Ebay and the seller have been notified and the
seller has responded. Any further discussion must be private. Please do not
post again on this subject lest you be suspended or removed from the list.
Thank you,
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
"_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: wing attachment |
I found the site I was thinking of, but it does not show the inserts anymore.
You may be able to call them and they may still have the parts on the shelf.
The website notes that they are looking for a buyer for their line of kitfox parts.
http://www.blueskyaviation.net/catalog.html
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273340#273340
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: wing attachment |
If I recall correctly, Accipitier Aviation had a name change, and stopped
-offering that part.- After searching in the web, it seems like the com
pany does not exist anymore.=0A=0AJos=E9=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________
____________=0AFrom: Cecil Stokesberry <stokesc@wildblue.net>=0ATo: kitfox-
list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, November 17, 2009 5:20:52 PM=0ASubject: Re:
Kitfox-List: Re: wing attachment=0A=0A=0ASnake.=0AI think you are referrin
g to Accipiter Aviation.- I have their catalog dated 1998.=0APh 303-828-4
681- P.O. Box 505; Erie, Colorado 80516.=0AI hav'nt heard-about them-
for quite a while.=0AThe had some very interesting items for us builders, i
ncluding- "spar mounting brackets"=0Athey are stainless steel cylinders t
hat slip into the spar tubes, =0Avery nice but pricie $330.00.=0AHope this
helps.=0A=0ACecil in North Idaho=0AKitfox Md-IV-582 C 1050=0A=0A=0A-
=0AOn Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 8:32 AM, akflyer <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
=0A>=0A>I will try and find the supplier that I had bookmarked. -I rememb
er finding a source that had a round insert that had the tangs cut into it.
-Instead of just the two tangs that rivet inside, this was a round sleev
e that went into the root end and was meant to repair ends that the holes h
ad been wobbled out etc. -Looked like a real slick way to replace the two
separate tangs.=0A>=0A>--------=0A>DO NOT ARCHIVE=0A>Leonard Perry aka SNA
KE=0A>Soldotna AK=0A>Avid "C" / Mk IV=0A>582 IVO IFA=0A>Full Lotus 1450=0A>
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009=0A>=0A>hander outer of humorless darw
in awards=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://for
ums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273298#273298=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Li
st Fund Raiser. -Click on=0A>-= - - * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric
.com=0A>omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com=0A>http://www.matronics.com/cont
ribution=0A>ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>
=========0A=0A=0A
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay |
Marco, I've been out most of my life, so it's no big deal. But ,I
couldn't.... scratch that, I wouldn't have wanted to rebuilt that KF without
this website. Good to hear from you. You are one of my selected mentors
since I also have a 582 C box KF. I just opened an MGD. I'm arguing with SS
about my eligibility to enroll for part B medicare, the FAA can't seem to
decide whether I should enter 0 hrs or 200 hrs on my airworthy certificate
application, my examiner says it's against the rules to schedule my oral one
day and the flight test on another for my Private Pilot license checkride,
and a $99K IRA transfer check is lost in the mail from one brokerage house
to another that I had to track. I'm so fed up with paper work, government
rules and employees, 2 sisters that still blame George Bush for Katrina,
and incompetence in general, that I'll have to have a 2nd MGD when this one
is done. And, I'm a 1 beer guy. If this is off topic, it's your fault Marco.
You didn't make it to Oshkosh last July, did you?
Oh by the way, do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That's it Reilly, *you're out*! ;-)
>
> do not archive
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/17/09, Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 2:59 PM
>
> Guy, What took you so long? Do not archive
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com<http://us.mc369.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bnn@nethere.com>
> > wrote:
>
>> At 05:42 PM 11/15/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> Furthermore you have had the same advice from myself as others
>>
>> >>> REMOVE THE FALSE AND MISLEADING AD FROM EBAY !!
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>> This thread is officially closed. It appears all clarifications
>> have occurred, Ebay and the seller have been notified and the seller has
>> responded. Any further discussion must be private. Please do not post again
>> on this subject lest you be suspended or removed from the list.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> *Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
>> *San Diego, CA
>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>>
>> *
>>
>> "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> el=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Rotax spark plugs |
Lowell:
I'm not sure but I think it is on the two stroke Rotax engines that the heat
sink compound is recommended. A Couple of reasons could be:
Two stroke engines have twice as many pulses per minute as a four stroke for
the same rpm so probably develop more heat on the heads and the heads being
aluminium may be able to deform easier than steel or iron heads. To help
avoid any deformation the heat sink compound may be advisable. However the
582 is liquid cooled so shouldn't need the extra protection of heat sink
compound.
The heads of the 582 are, I believe, aluminium and if this is the case it
may be an attempt to protect the threads from dissimilar metal corrosion.
As for anti seize compound; most of them use graphite as the lubricator..
this is ok if you are putting a steel or cadmium plated plug into a steel
head but carbon should in any form should not be used on aluminium.
When I was training we would not even mark sheet aluminium with a standard
lead pencil because it would eventually cause corrosion of the sheet.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax spark plugs
I have a question.
What is it about the Rotax technology that it requires proprietary heat
transfer compound on the spark plugs. Is it something like only using
genuine Rotax oil filters? Or genuine GM parts on my car? Or the factory
recommendation that my wife's car only run on name brand gas? - we discuss
this pretty often.
I am a born skeptic, I guess, but intelligent enough to understand an
explanation. if there is one. I ran my old 912 using graphited antisieze on
the plugs, but of course, this began long before Rotax began conducting -
and charging for, I might add - their maintenance seminars.
Can someone give a real rason other than Rotax recommends it?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <Catz631@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax spark plugs
> Roger is correct,the silicone paste used on the plugs is not the same
> formulation as the common silicone grease you find in hardware
> stores,Radio Shack
> etc.This information came from Lockwood as I addressed it specifically in
> Rotax engine class. I too have a "truck load" of the standard stuff but
> was
> told not to use it.
> You use very little of the heat transfer compound on each plug. I have
> done two spark plug changes and still have plenty left out of that little
> packet. As mentioned the stuff is available at Lockwood,Leading Edge,CPS
> and I am
> sure other Rotax dealers.
> Dick Maddux
> Fox 4
> 912 UL
> Milton,Fl
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
The idea is the airplane more or less retains its CG envelope and doesn't
quickly become too tail heavy, or nose light if you like, to glide.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Av8r3400
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:53 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Restraint Cable
Help me understand how this is going to help an emergency situation.
If the engine departs the airframe or the its dangling by a cable or two?
Either way leaves mostly an uncontrollable situation, doesn't it?
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273162#273162
Message 19
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Stainless steel ? Nickel alloy? With aluminium heads?
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Anti-Seize
Check out this, good for very high temps, I use it all the time.
Clint
http://www.newmantools.com/felpro/n1000.htm
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
I dont think it is an issue putting dry plugs into a 2 stroke.. a few million
(atleast) running in this world seems to be a pretty good indication that there
is not an issue with corrosion between the plug and head on a 2 stroke. In
the last 30 yrs of running 2 strokes I have never had an issue (other than some
goober that must have installed the plugs with a 4' long cheater bar on the
end) but that was not a corrosion issue.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273351#273351
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Changing engines |
OK just talked to the Seattle MIDO office and the have one cool lady working there.
If all feds were as nice, funny and helpful as she was, this country would
be kicking @ss!
at any rate, for anyone who needs to work through this and your local FSDO is being
a pain in the butt, here are the sections that you need to quote them to
get them in gear.
you can do a web search for this document if you don't already have it
FAA 8130.2F
Section 152 C (1)
Section 153 (19) and (27)
If you give these numbers to the local FSDO they have no place to hide and have
to work with you instead of giving you the run around. With the change in engine
manufactures, you have to apply for a new airworthiness (FAA form 8130-6).
After talking to Theresa this will be a painless process and is really not
a big deal other than kicking me back to phase one for a minimum of 5 hrs (one
good weekends worth of playing!)
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273354#273354
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
Lowell:
For what it's worth about a year ago I took a trip to Halifax, NS. On my
way down through Cape Breton Island ( northern Nova Scotia) I bought gas,
very cheap gas, at an Indian reserve. I don't know where they got their gas
or what they had added to it but I do know my Subaru popped, pinged and
farted until the tank was mostly empty and I could get some brand name go
juice into it. That's the last time I'll buy gas in Baddeck. BTW Baddeck
is the community where Alexander Graham Bell the inventor of the telephone
lived. It was on the ice of Brador Lake that the first flight in Canada
took place 101 yr ago.
In this area of Newfoundland most of the gas arrives by tanker from Irving
Oil Co and is sold by all the gas companies. The exception to the rule is
North Atlantic Petroleum which has a refinery about a hundred miles away
from here. 95% of North Atlantic's production is sold in the U.S. as far as
I know.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
Roger,
I can agree with a lot of what you said. Then you finish with a comment on
proven practices. My suggestion here is that the vast majority of Rotax
users have transferred their hot rod or home maintenance procedures to their
Rotax engines and have simply used anti sieze lube on thier plugs for at
least 75% of probably millions of flight hours.
Then there is the apples and oranges thing. Evans coolant has become one
of the latest Rotax recommendations (read rages). Evans is a high temp
coolant with a lower heat carrying capacity than the 50% blend traditionally
used. Why was it introduced? Because in some installations, the Rotax
engines have been found to run hotter than in other installations causing
vapor pockets and damaged engines. Rans, for example in some models, have
cooling issues especially in climb. I have followed some that used a
protracted step climb to get over high mountains where the Kitfoxes in the
flight simply climb to altitude. Do I feel a need for Evans Coolant, of
course not. My problem always was to get the oil temps to the recommended
212 to remove the moisture from the oil. I simply don't need a high temp
coolant.
I think this argument can also be made for the heat sink compound. Our
engines, at least in the Model IV (I have no personal experience with the
internal radiator found in the later models) Our engines run on the cool
side of the heat range. I don't watch my sodium intake because my Blood
Pressure runs on the low side. What I mean by that last comment, is that
there are very few pieces of advice where one size fits all. Take the 912UL
vs. the 912ULS, for example. I suspect with the higher compression, the ULS
will run a bit hotter. It might be appropriate to consider a heat
transferring lube on the plug threads, then again if my engine runs on the
cool side, what's the point. I had 900 hours on my old engine. I changed
the plugs at the recommended intervals and had the same boring insulator
colors that everyone else had. Did I damage my engine? I seriously doubt
it. But, then again, would I damage the water cooled head, or the $3.00
spark plug if it wasn't cooled adequately. And I repeat, Honda recommends
name brand gas in my wife's Civic Hybrid. The latest issue if AAA magazine
quotes a petrolium engineer to the effect that with the EPA mandates on
detergents etc. in all fuels, there is very little difference in brands and
likely no difference at all because even the independents purchase their
fuels on the open marked and might sell Chevron one day and Texaco the next.
I don't feel comfortable making decisions for others, but for me and my new
project - 912UL - I see no need to worry about one more thing.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 9:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
>
> First Rotax is the expert and Mfg. They have hundreds of thousands of
> hours of actual flight data and testing, not to mention millions of $$$ in
> testing and the Mfg of the 912 engine since late 1989.
> How much of this do any of us have? Who has the facilities here to run an
> engine day in and out and the instruments to collect the data?
> Second maybe the rest of the old timers haven't caught up to newer ideas
> and technology, which is definitely the case in a lot of GA stuff. If you
> make a change you are liable and you have to invest tons of money for
> testing and STC's. That's one big reason you don't see big progressive
> changes in the GA engine stuff.
> If anyone chooses to experiment with their $18.5K engine then it's ok.
> This is also where they get good data on things not to do, from the guys
> that like to experiment. I think spending $3 on a little tube of heat
> conducting paste makes good sense and a good investment.
> The plugs don't get hotter. All we are trying to do is make the heads and
> plugs heat and transfer of the heat the same. By doing so you get a better
> marriage between heads and plugs.
>
> I don't quite understand why people are so reluctant to follow proven
> practices from an MFG that cost so little and is so easy. We have all
> invested so much time, money and education in our hobby, why stop on our
> on going educational process.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Service Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273255#273255
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax spark plugs |
All the info I gave you is right out of the Rotax schools and the manuals. If you
do it any different it isn't right. Yes it may work, but not to specs and against
the Mfg's advice. I won't give you backyard mechanic advice and I won't
try to save a buck and do it wrong.
All the info I gave you on plugs is in the Rotax manual or SB's. They didn't just
pull their reasons out of a hat, they had good data to support it.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273358#273358
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
Below is a message I received off line..
G'day Snake,
Please post this for me if you will. It seems to have gotten stuck in my server
or whatever. Larry Huntley ( Milk stool death wish pilot)
I'm not sure what is so complicated about this subject.
1/ If an engine comes loose from the airframe the tail becomes heavier
than the nose. the plane returns to the ground tailfirst.Wings don't work.
You die.
2/ If the engine is still hanging by a cable wrapped around the airframe,
the front is still heavier, it goes down nose first, wings still work,you
have some control. You have a hell of a rough landing ,but you may well
live.
Of course, #1 will not hurt. #2 may hurt pretty bad. Your choice.
If you are absolutely ,positively and totally confident that your
experimental engine on your experimental aircraft could not come loose under
any circumstances,there is no reason to think about it,but I think it is a
good subject to bring up on a forum like this as some may never have given
it thought.
Thank you to whomever began this thread. Larry
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273360#273360
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
Both Gary and I have had prop failure s in flight and we have both had engines
TEAR from mounts and break the engine mounts partially.
We both landed safely ( yes dead stick practice is certainly an attribute)
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=41866&highlight=safety+cable
did the engines fall off ? ==> N0
If they did , would I be posting this ? == NO
SAFETY CABLE -- YES on engine and on bungee gear as well contrary to some peoples
opinions.
You can pay now or pay later.
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273382#273382
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay |
Hilarious!
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Reilly
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay
Marco, I've been out most of my life, so it's no big deal. But ,I
couldn't.... scratch that, I wouldn't have wanted to rebuilt that KF
without this website. Good to hear from you. You are one of my selected
mentors since I also have a 582 C box KF. I just opened an MGD. I'm
arguing with SS about my eligibility to enroll for part B medicare, the
FAA can't seem to decide whether I should enter 0 hrs or 200 hrs on my
airworthy certificate application, my examiner says it's against the
rules to schedule my oral one day and the flight test on another for my
Private Pilot license checkride, and a $99K IRA transfer check is lost
in the mail from one brokerage house to another that I had to track. I'm
so fed up with paper work, government rules and employees, 2 sisters
that still blame George Bush for Katrina, and incompetence in general,
that I'll have to have a 2nd MGD when this one is done. And, I'm a 1
beer guy. If this is off topic, it's your fault Marco. You didn't make
it to Oshkosh last July, did you?
Oh by the way, do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
wrote:
That's it Reilly, you're out! ;-)
do not archive
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 11/17/09, Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
wrote:
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 2 ? on ebay
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 2:59 PM
Guy, What took you so long? Do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Guy Buchanan
<bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
At 05:42 PM 11/15/2009, you wrote:
Furthermore you have had the same advice from myself as
others
>>> REMOVE THE FALSE AND MISLEADING AD FROM EBAY !!
All,
This thread is officially closed. It appears all
clarifications have occurred, Ebay and the seller have been notified and
the seller has responded. Any further discussion must be private. Please
do not post again on this subject lest you be suspended or removed from
the list.
Thank you,
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
Hi Lynn=2C
I guess you are right about all these cables and wires holding things toget
her in the most widely used engine used in LSA. 95% if I am correct. The 9
12 ULS unlike the simple Jabiru 2200 with its equil poor performance which
can be verified in several aviation magazines. Some say is sounds very nice
.
P.S. What is going to happen when your Jabiru reaches 1000 hours=2C we are
all waiting in suspense.
Clint
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Restraint Cable
> Date: Mon=2C 16 Nov 2009 20:13:49 -0500
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Not to blatantly bash the Rotax (just subtly)=2C but from what I've
> seen of 'em=2C there is enough wires=2C cables=2C hoses and fuel lines to
> probably hold the engine in place. I think that's what kept ....was
> it Gary's? ......plane flyable=2C and let him land after one blade
> departed and the resultant vibration shook the engine loose. You old-
> timers will recall who I mean. I'm pretty sure that was a Rotax
> engine. Seriously though=2C I'm NOT bashing Rotax=2C but I wouldn't bet
> on any amount of the normal wiring=2C hoses=2C etc. to hold ANY engine in
> place once the vibration of a less-than-complete prop begins.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger
> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 814.7 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs~185 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 16=2C 2009=2C at 3:14 PM=2C Clint Bazzill wrote:
>
> > I do not think you need a cable around the engine on a Rotax
> > powered aircraft. I know of 2 props that came apart=2C the vibration
> > was so great that the carbs flew off and engine stopped. These
> > engines are not like the heavy direct drive aircraft engines.
> >
> > Clint
> >
> > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Restraint Cable
> > > From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com
> > > Date: Mon=2C 16 Nov 2009 11:56:53 -0800
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >
> > <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > I have not had this happen on a "real" plane=2C but lots of times
> > on models. One of the local guys builds alot and I do the test
> > flights for him. When we go into electrics=2C he though that a good
> > friction fit would hold the engine on... I flew a few of his
> > variable CG airplanes till I started checking them over real good
> > before the first flight! He used a plug in harness on one and when
> > the motor came off=2C it came unplugged and was gone. She was
> > uncontrollable tail heavy and came in spinning hard. 2 others he
> > soldered the connections and when they came off it was just
> > exciting for a few till I got it settled down.. it was kinda like
> > chasing a crane load that starts swinging on ya. Both of those
> > planes I was able to land in one piece. I know the scale is
> > different=2C but I am with Lynn on this one. I would rather have a
> > engine swinging a little and have a chance to get it on the ground=2C
> > than to have the engine depart completely and have no option other
> > than to try to bend!
> > > over in the cramped cockpit and kiss your @ss good by!
> > >
> > > --------
> > > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> > > Soldotna AK
> > > Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV
> > > 582 IVO IFA
> > > Full Lotus 1450
> > > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
> > >
> > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273185#273185
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >=============
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > =======================
> > =======================
> > =======================
===========
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
What props were you using?
Clint
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Restraint Cable
> From: dave@cfisher.com
> Date: Tue=2C 17 Nov 2009 18:54:28 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Both Gary and I have had prop failure s in flight and we have both had en
gines TEAR from mounts and break the engine mounts partially.
>
> We both landed safely ( yes dead stick practice is certainly an attribute
)
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=41866&highlight=safety+ca
ble
>
> did the engines fall off ? ==> N0
>
> If they did =2C would I be posting this ? == NO
>
>
> SAFETY CABLE -- YES on engine and on bungee gear as well contrary to some
peoples opinions.
>
> You can pay now or pay later.
>
>
> Dave
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer=2C Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273382#273382
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Restraint Cable |
Clint, Leave Lynn alone. I've had a bad week, but Lynn's streak is alot
longer. Hell, Lynn told me he's never getting married again....3 wives is
enough. And, he is already more than a 1 beer guy.
Again do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Clint Bazzill
<clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Hi Lynn,
>
> I guess you are right about all these cables and wires holding things
> together in the most widely used engine used in LSA. 95% if I am
> correct. The 912 ULS unlike the simple Jabiru 2200 with its equil poor
> performance which can be verified in several aviation magazines. Some say is
> sounds very nice.
>
>
> P.S. What is going to happen when your Jabiru reaches 1000 hours, we are
> all waiting in suspense.
>
> Clint
>
>
> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Restraint Cable
> > Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:13:49 -0500
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Not to blatantly bash the Rotax (just subtly), but from what I've
> > seen of 'em, there is enough wires, cables, hoses and fuel lines to
> > probably hold the engine in place. I think that's what kept ....was
> > it Gary's? ......plane flyable, and let him land after one blade
> > departed and the resultant vibration shook the engine loose. You old-
> > timers will recall who I mean. I'm pretty sure that was a Rotax
> > engine. Seriously though, I'm NOT bashing Rotax, but I wouldn't bet
> > on any amount of the normal wiring, hoses, etc. to hold ANY engine in
> > place once the vibration of a less-than-complete prop begins.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 814.7 hrs
> > Countdown to 1000 hrs~185 to go
> > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
> > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > Rotec TBI-40 injection
> > Status: flying (and learning)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
> >
> > > I do not think you need a cable around the engine on a Rotax
> > > powered aircraft. I know of 2 props that came apart, the vibration
> > > was so great that the carbs flew off and engine stopped. These
> > > engines are not like the heavy direct drive aircraft engines.
> > >
> > > Clint
> > >
> > > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine Restraint Cable
> > > > From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com
> > > > Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:56:53 -0800
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > >
> > > <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > > I have not had this happen on a "real" plane, but lots of times
> > > on models. One of the local guys builds alot and I do the test
> > > flights for him. When we go into electrics, he though that a good
> > > friction fit would hold the engine on... I flew a few of his
> > > variable CG airplanes till I started checking them over real good
> > > before the first flight! He used a plug in harness on one and when
> > > the motor came off, it came unplugged and was gone. She was
> > > uncontrollable tail heavy and came in spinning hard. 2 others he
> > > soldered the connections and when they came off it was just
> > > exciting for a few till I got it settled down.. it was kinda like
> > > chasing a crane load that starts swinging on ya. Both of those
> > > planes I was able to land in one piece. I know the scale is
> > > different, but I am with Lynn on this one. I would rather have a
> > > engine swinging a little and have a chance to get it on the ground,
> > > than to have the engine depart completely and have no option other
> > > than to try to bend!
> > > > over in the cramped cockpit and kiss your @ss good by!
> > > >
> > > > --------
> > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > > > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> > > > Soldotna AK
> > > > Avid "C" / Mk IV
> > > > 582 IVO IFA
> > > > Full Lotus 1450
> > > > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
> > > >
> > > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Read this topic online here:
> > > >
> > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273185#273185
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >=============
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ========== _-
> > > =================================== _-
> > > ===========================================
> > _======
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Changing engines |
Hi Leni=2C I'm just wondering if you ever read through your operating lim
itations? I'm really sure that they list what you are supposed to do when
making a major change on your plane. Just a side note=2C every set of oper
ating limitations I've see says that it has to be carried in the airplane (
just like the airworthyness cert) Hope you get the engine changed over wit
hout any problems=2C it will be interesting to see how it works out. Would
n't hurt to give Rotax some competition either! Take care=2C Jim Chuk Av
ids=2C Kitfox 4 Mn
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Changing engines
> From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue=2C 17 Nov 2009 16:09:15 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> OK just talked to the Seattle MIDO office and the have one cool lady work
ing there. If all feds were as nice=2C funny and helpful as she was=2C this
country would be kicking @ss!
>
> at any rate=2C for anyone who needs to work through this and your local F
SDO is being a pain in the butt=2C here are the sections that you need to q
uote them to get them in gear.
>
> you can do a web search for this document if you don't already have it
>
> FAA 8130.2F
> Section 152 C (1)
> Section 153 (19) and (27)
>
> If you give these numbers to the local FSDO they have no place to hide an
d have to work with you instead of giving you the run around. With the chan
ge in engine manufactures=2C you have to apply for a new airworthiness (FAA
form 8130-6). After talking to Theresa this will be a painless process and
is really not a big deal other than kicking me back to phase one for a min
imum of 5 hrs (one good weekends worth of playing!)
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273354#273354
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
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