Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Lynn Matteson)
2. 09:53 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/22/09 (Ed Gray)
3. 10:09 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/22/09 (SkySteve)
4. 10:09 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/22/09 (SkySteve)
5. 10:17 AM - Engineering (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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Or move on to changing ignition systems, fuel metering devices,
adding skis, or like I'm doing...modifying the exhaust system and
building a different (updraft) intake manifold, just to try to tweak
the system a little bit and get the temperatures a little closer to
perfect.. It's all because we *can* that we *do*.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 814.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~185 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:42 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> It's called tinkering and it's what you do after you've finished
> building and it's one of the reasons you fly an experimental. It
> begins with cap fairings and strut fairings and door handles and
> progresses to props and bush wheels and bubble doors, to bush gear
> and wood inlaid carbon fiber panels, to leather seats and glass
> panels, and finally to carbon fiber wings and the new 100hp
> turboprop every one's been talking about. When you've replaced
> everything you start over.
>
> Or if you're like me you just fly so much you barely have time for
> maintenance.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/22/09 |
Guy, You miss the point! We love to keep tinkering with our planes to make
them different (better) than the others. Thats why we are not just pilots,
we are aeronautical engineers!
Regarding fairings, I am a newie, with just 20 hours on my 90 model Kitfox
II. I used the McBean leading edge extrusion, bonded with Hysol, and it
looks great and flys great. I also covered the upper front surface with
ASpruce aluminum glued to the spar just behind the leading edge and faired
with bondo. Added 5 pounds, but it seems much more substantial then fabric.
Strut fairings are .20 aluminum (5 inch strip bent into a V) and jury strut
fairings are 5/16 balsa, cut into V shape and groove cut into front side
with a table saw. Then wrapped aluminum tape over strut and balsa, sprayed
with rattle bomb--looks good! I would never consider foam, balsa is just as
light and much easier to work.
Question: Who has spun a Model 1, 2, or 3? What is your spin entry
technique? Is recovery just like Cubs, 150s, etc? I will be wearing a
parachute in case things don't go as planned.
Another Question: Has anyone modified the vertical stab on a KII to use the
larger rudder that McBean sells? Do not archive
Ed Gray Dallas KII 582 GSC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:00 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/22/09
*
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Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 11/22/09: 14
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:13 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:22 AM - Re: Fuel Line Size (dave)
2. 03:25 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (dave)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (kenjrichter)
4. 06:14 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (dave)
5. 06:41 AM - Re: Fuel Line Size (Ken Potter)
6. 07:12 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (WurlyBird)
7. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Rotax spark plugs (Noel Loveys)
8. 09:20 AM - Re: Float Chamber Vent Lines (Jim Feldmann)
9. 10:37 AM - (Gerald Jantzi)
10. 11:50 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (kenjrichter)
11. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Dave G)
12. 09:50 PM - Re: Fuel Line Size (Guy Buchanan)
13. 09:50 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Guy Buchanan)
________________________________ Message 0
_____________________________________
Time: 12:13:20 AM PST US
From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors
Published
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I
post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the
Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC?
Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps
these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 03:22:57 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Line Size
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Ken,
I would suggest 1/4 " lines throughout. Wing tank fittings might need
5/16s depending
fittings. Larger line would be over kill on the 582
Once plumbed run a gravity flow fuel test. Your 582 will burn up to 30
litres/
hour at wide open. I Think you should see about 40 litres/hour with gravity
test
alone.
1/4" from gascolator forward will do you fine. Use fire sleeve forward of
firewall
but if you registered as Ultralight in Canada you don't have to but it a
good
idea. Blue urethane fuel line is a great choice. Use safety wire double
looped
and not tie wraps as they don't seal as well. Don't use plastic or gear
clamps either.
Impulse line 1/4" heavy wall urethane or fuel injection line up to 12 "
long .
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274265#274265
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 03:25:30 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Leading edge fro M c bean will give you a few mph........
Strut fairings will give you more.......... 5 to 8 mph.
Model 1 & 2 can see VNe easier this way. I think the model 3 had a higher
VNE
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274266#274266
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 04:39:45 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3
From: "kenjrichter" <kenrichter@centurytel.net>
Which fairings do you mean streamlined wing struts or something else?
Thanks Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274268#274268
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 06:14:31 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
kenjrichter wrote:
> Which fairings do you mean streamlined wing struts or something else?
>
> Thanks Ken
Wing strut fairings is the best gain on most mods you will do for speed
increase.
Every little mod will add up but Kitfox not an aerodynamic dream machine.
The
IV model is faster that the 1, 2 or 3s due to wing ,leading edge mostly. As
well
as less drag from less angle of windscreen etc. But bigger struts give
more
wetted area. and so on.
Lot of those little silly mods might help like gas cap fairing etc but
really we
talking minimal. Wing strut fairs and gear fairings and wheels pants will be
best.
Also -- your false ribs help as well . some model Ivs had false ribs on
bottom
of wing as well and this give s a little gain as well in speed.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274273#274273
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 06:41:01 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Line Size
From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
Thanks Dave;
Yesterday I installed 1/4" Bing blue fuel line from the gascolator to the
pump,
and from the pump to the carbs. I used a piece of R-9 injector hose for the
impulse line. All lines, including primer, impulse, and oil injection are
fire
shielded.
In addition, I removed the header tank behind the seat and replaced the
hoses
that the previous builder had installed with ethanal resistant 5/16" R-9
injector
hose. As well I replaced the vent line with 1/4" Bing.
Cheers,
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274281#274281
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 07:12:19 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
1. For installation of the leading edge does the fabric need to be removed
from
the leading spar and then a fabric job done to seal it all up?
2. How does this mod affect slow speed flight and stalls?
3. What is the best material/method for fairing wing struts and landing
gear?
4. how ridiculous is it that I care about cleaning up my airplane if it
never has
doors on it?
[Laughing]
James
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
The ink is still drying on my new certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274283#274283
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 07:24:24 AM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
While I can see why most of us here are willing to try other than approved
products in out planes I can still see why Rotax requires that we use
approved materials especially if there is warranty involved. In cases where
no warranty is involved there is the question of liability if they were to
recommend an untested product. In these days of ridiculous litigation I
think they are doing the right thing.
What I would say is to read the labels, read both sides of any discussion in
the forums and decide accordingly. Oh yes and be prepared to pay the
penalty if we are wrong and use a so called not recommended material or
procedure.
In defense of Roger using recommended materials and procedures is cheap
insurance.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
Roger, I understand you are in a debate here and it may be desirable to
"win" rather than discuss but I can't completely agree with your stand here.
It's too absolute. In the manual and the product sheet Rotax specifies only
a single product is acceptable, the one they sell. Period. They also
specifically dictate that NO other product is acceptable, because they have
not tested or approved it. That is in their bulletins and by your posting is
the only way that you will accept. That is fine as far as opinion goes, and
in fact would be the standard as far as liability and warranty for Rotax but
it hardly means that no other product will work. CPS, LEAF, and perhaps
Lockwood are reputable dealers with experience and knowledge who sell
alternatives. There are alternative and aftermarket rings, pistons, ignition
modules seals and many other parts for these aircraft engines that are
perfectly acceptable in service and are absolutely not approved by Rotax.
Many people believe that in some cases these aftermarket parts are superior.
If the product Rotax recommends becomes unavailable they would find another,
despite the fact they had already declared that no other would be deemed
acceptable. This has already happened.
I understand that you offer guidance based on your opinion and experience
but I think you step a little too far when you declare that any variance is
wrong, as you instantly condemn the other mentioned dealers every
aftermarket manufacturer and perhaps even Rotax themselves. There are few
absolutes in any field of endevour and they are usually pretty self evident.
Perhaps we can agree that conventional antiseize is not the best choice in
this application and suggest using a more suitable alternative.
In my experience a declaration that "I am right" and "you are wrong and must
admit it" just backs people into corners, starts arguments and inevitably
ends in a reference to Nazis.
(oh dear, I've just argued against what is in the rotax manuals, I'm going
to hell)
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:21 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax spark plugs
> The right way is what is in the Rotax manuals, SB's or taught in Rotax
> school. Any thing other than that is wrong and there is no way to argue
> against what's in the Rotax or aircraft manual's.
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 09:20:56 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Float Chamber Vent Lines
From: "Jim Feldmann" <feldesign@earthlink.net>
I did the same thing. You can run them into the filters, but the low
pressure
there will cause the float chambers to overfill. My engine installation
manual
says to leave them at the original length (about 4") and open to atmosphere.
The experts at Lockwood said that's best. Just slip the end between the
wire
clip and the side of the float bowl.
--------
Jim Feldmann, 3rd owner
1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912
Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274297#274297
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 10:37:17 AM PST US
From: Gerald Jantzi <gvjantzi@yahoo.com>
hello Mr. fisher my name is gerry you dint know me but I have seen some of
your videos flying A kitfox .I am currently building kitfox model 5 with ro
tax 912ul 80 HP. having some problems with oil temp getting to hot with the
cowling on also water temp overfilling overflow bottle.also static rpm is
too low .using 70x50 prop.am going to need a ground adjustable prop also
-1.2 rad. cap. can you give me some input? my location is wellesley on.
---- gerry=0A=0A=0A __________________________________________
________________________=0AAsk a question on any topic and get answers from
real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.ans
wers.yahoo.com
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 11:50:06 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3
From: "kenjrichter" <kenrichter@centurytel.net>
James, it sounds like you have the same kitfox/engine/prop I have only I
have the
grove spring gear on mine maybe you have also, my plan for the leading edge
is to glue it in place over the covering and then use some 4" fabric tape
eventually
and paint to match but for now I plan to use the black leading edge tape
to cover it up and maybe leave it I had this on my firestar and it was nice
for cleaning the bugs off they didn't stick to it like the fabric, I am also
clipping the wings 18" per side in hopes of picking up some speed from both
of
the mods I do have the streamlined strut fairings I also hope to make it
smoother
in bumpy air, I know i will be sacrificing some climb and stall speed but
my plane has more of this than I need anyway and then maybe my passengers
will
not get sick when I fly in the middle of the day,the model 3 is a great
short
field plane it gets off before I'm ready and climbs great but I should have
a model 4 as I fly from an airport but since I already have this plane I
hope
to make it work better for my needs,I will post the results.
Ken Richter
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274317#274317
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 12:51:19 PM PST US
From: "Dave G" <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3
1.) Yes, but maybe you could glue it to the fabric and then put a 6" fabric
overlay on it, Yer on your own if you do.
2) No idea, probably not a major thing.
3) The originals back in the day were angle sawn hardwood glued on and
fabric covered. The only ones sold by Kitfox today are plastic. You could
put foam triangles on the back of the strut and cover or not (poly fiber
dissolves foam). There are many ways to accomplish this task, I'd go with
the factory stuff.
4) Well, that's between you and your therapist. You might want doors
someday. I like being able to drop the chart on the passenger seat and not
buy a new one each flight.
----- Original Message -----
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:09 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> 1. For installation of the leading edge does the fabric need to be removed
> from the leading spar and then a fabric job done to seal it all up?
>
> 2. How does this mod affect slow speed flight and stalls?
>
> 3. What is the best material/method for fairing wing struts and landing
> gear?
>
> 4. how ridiculous is it that I care about cleaning up my airplane if it
> never has doors on it?
>
> [Laughing]
>
> James
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
> The ink is still drying on my new certificate
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274283#274283
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 09:50:55 PM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Line Size
At 05:11 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>What size does everyone else out there use for this line??
1/4".
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 09:50:56 PM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3
At 07:09 AM 11/22/2009, you wrote:
>4. how ridiculous is it that I care about cleaning up my airplane if
>it never has doors on it?
It's called tinkering and it's what you do after you've finished
building and it's one of the reasons you fly an experimental. It
begins with cap fairings and strut fairings and door handles and
progresses to props and bush wheels and bubble doors, to bush gear
and wood inlaid carbon fiber panels, to leather seats and glass
panels, and finally to carbon fiber wings and the new 100hp turboprop
every one's been talking about. When you've replaced everything you start
over.
Or if you're like me you just fly so much you barely have time for
maintenance.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/22/09 |
Vertical stab mod on model 1. Added 10" to match the model IV rudder. Great results: http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=114
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274429#274429
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/22/09 |
[quote="SkySteve"]Vertical stab mod on model 1. Added 10" to match the model IV rudder. Great results: http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=114
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274430#274430
Message 5
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> From: Ed Gray [egraylaw@swbell.net]
> Thats why we are not just pilots,
> we are aeronautical engineers!
I beg to differ, my friend. We are amateur pilots who should also be amateur engineers.
This is meant in the etymological meaning of the word, amateur, which
comes from the Italian 'amare' meaning, to love.
We should love aviation in all its forms but I will never compare myself with someone
who had an education as a professional engineer or pilot.
Best regards,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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