---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/03/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:27 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (dave) 2. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Pete Christensen) 3. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (skyflyte@comcast.net) 4. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Patrick Reilly) 5. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (fox5flyer) 6. 10:10 AM - Washington CORVAIR Community College at Magnificent Machine! (Brady) 7. 11:43 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (dave) 8. 11:46 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (dave) 9. 12:50 PM - Jabiru 2200 engine For Sale (Marwynne) 10. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (skyflyte@comcast.net) 11. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (skyflyte@comcast.net) 12. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (skyflyte@comcast.net) 13. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Patrick Reilly) 14. 04:00 PM - Re: kitfox 3 (dave) 15. 04:02 PM - Re: kitfox 3 (dave) 16. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Patrick Reilly) 17. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Patrick Reilly) 18. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (skyflyte@comcast.net) 19. 08:37 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 12/02/09 () 20. 09:31 PM - battery capacity (clemwehner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:23 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: "dave" What brand are you recommending? and What results have to had ? I have tested several brands and the best bang for the buck are www.stolspeed.com ones. They come with adhesive tape. I think about 100$ for entire set. Model 2 s do run out of elevator sooner than the model IV I will say. I tried then on bottom of horiz stab ahead of the hinge line on model IV and had no change. I do have tape on my IV elevator for about 4 years and I forget if it changed anything. Plane works awesome just look at the videos. They speak louder than words. [quote="Pat Reilly"]Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended to me and I was very happy with price and the product. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rockford, IL On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter wrote: > > I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it did help but I may consider the vortex generators. > > Thanks > > -------- > Ken Richter > Osceola,Wi > model 3 speedster > 582/GSC prop/Grove gear > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873) > > > > > > List Fund Raiser. Click on > -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) > omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) > http:/r generous support! > ronics List Features Navigator to browse > s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ============= > > > > [b] -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275927#275927 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:08 AM PST US From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can vg's be to make? Anybody done that? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended to me and I was very happy with price and the product. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rockford, IL On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter wrote: I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it did help but I may consider the vortex generators. Thanks -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 List Fund Raiser. Click on -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com http:/r generous support! ronics List Features Navigator to browse s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ============= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:13 AM PST US From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the horiz ontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator.=C2- It wo rked very well! Mike Model II - 582 - #490 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Christensen" Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:10:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can=C2-vg's be to make?=C2- Anybody done that? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended to me and I was very happy with price and the product. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rockford, IL On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter < kenrichter@centurytel.net > w rote: t > I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it di d help but I may consider the vortex generators. Thanks -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 List Fund Raiser. =C2-Click on -= =C2- =C2- * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com http:/r generous support! ronics List Features Navigator to browse s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ============== href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://ww w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp .com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox -List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums. =============== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: Patrick Reilly Mike, Did you heat form the .016 Lexan? What fabrication methods did you use? I was contemplating fabricating my own for the underside of the hoiz. stab. but ended up purchasing the VG's to save a little time. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL Pat Reilly On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:49 AM, wrote: > I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the > horizontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator. It > worked very well! > > Mike > > Model II - 582 - #490 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Christensen" > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:10:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can vg's be to make? Anybody done > that? > > Pete > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Patrick Reilly > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended > to me and I was very happy with price and the product. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 > Rockford, IL > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter wrote: > >> kenrichter@centurytel.net> >> >> I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it >> did help but I may consider the vortex generators. >> >> Thanks >> >> -------- >> Ken Richter >> Osceola,Wi >> model 3 speedster >> 582/GSC prop/Grove gear >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 >> >> >> >> >> >> List Fund Raiser. Click on >> -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com >> omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com >> http:/r generous support! >> ronics List Features Navigator to browse >> s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ============= >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > _blank>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > p://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:17 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Mike, how far back from the leading edge did you place them? Did you place them horizontal to the hinge line or did you follow the leading edge line? Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) ----- Original Message ----- From: skyflyte@comcast.net To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the horizontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator. It worked very well! Mike Model II - 582 - #490 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Christensen" To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:10:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can vg's be to make? Anybody done that? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended to me and I was very happy with price and the product. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rockford, IL On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter wrote: I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it did help but I may consider the vortex generators. Thanks -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 List Fund Raiser. Click on -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com http:/r generous support! ronics List Features Navigator to browse s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ============= href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:10 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Washington CORVAIR Community College at Magnificent Machine! From: "Brady" For all those who might be interested: William Wynne is coming to the Great North West! Magnificent Machine will be hosting a Ccrvair "Community College" The Dates will be Dec. 26th & 27th. If you are interested in attending please contact Magnificent Machine: By email= info@magnificentmachine.com By phone= 360-635-6042 toll free for those of you out of state= 1-866-606-4152 Things you will see at the event are: A running CH-750 WW Corvair installation! A MagVair with a Dan Weseman 5th bearing! Several other Corvair engine conversions in various stages including running! CH-601's & CH-701's in various stages. Magnificent Machine's New Facility! Corvair Cars! The adjacent space that maybe used for our builder assist program! And most importantly other aviation & Corvair nuts that you have more in common with than you realize. DON'T MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY! The Coffee is always on and is always free so if you can't make these dates please feel free to stop by at your leisure. Thank you, Brady McCormick CH-701/Corvair, CH-601/Corvair 5686 Minder RD NE Suite #101 Poulsbo, WA 98370 1-866-606-4152 toll free! info@magnificentmachine.com www.magnificentmachine.com -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275989#275989 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:27 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: "dave" I tried them I think an inch or two ahead of the hinge line parallel to the hinges. They did little for my IV . I have found they help alot on super cubs. The model 2 has less elevator effectiveness than a model IV so I would think they would see more benefit. I think you guys should post some videos of how much better they work. I don't think a model 2 will be able to drag the tailwheel down the runway. My Model IV is marginal at doing it . VG's do seem to have a few attributes. I have had them on my IV Kitfox for over 1000 hours and I have not removed them yet. I would like to alter some of the spacing and placement but it flys so damn well I just don't find it high on the priorities. [quote="Fox5flyer"]Mike, how far back from the leading edge did you place them? Did you place them horizontal to the hinge line or did you follow the leading edge line? Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) > --- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276011#276011 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:30 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: "dave" How bout some pictures and some performance videos to show us how much better it is ? Lexan -- I bend it all the time in my brake. will form nice sharp edge. What did you use for adhesive ? 2 sided tape or crazy glue ? skyflyte(at)comcast.net wrote: > I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the horizontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator. It worked very well! > Mike > Model II - 582 - #490 > > --- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276012#276012 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:38 PM PST US From: Marwynne Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabiru 2200 engine For Sale If any one is interested please contact Ralph Moe. Jabiru 2200 engine SN # 1195, 80 hp, 4 cyl, 868 hrs. TTSN. Engine was rebuilt from broken valve, and has flown 8 hours since. $6900/ (Recently a fuel supply problem caused an off field landing and my aircraft was destroyed. The engine was not running or damaged in the event. Dial indicator shows no damage to crank from wooden prop damage. The engine runs great.) /Near Galveston, TX Contact: Ralph Moe trailgrader@aol.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:46 PM PST US From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Pat, =C2-=C2- You don't need to heat form Lexan.=C2- I cut pieces, probabl y 1.5" x 1.0", and bent it in a right angle using a steel ruler so I had a VG 1.5" long and 0.5" high.=C2- Double sided tape didn't stick very well so I used a piece of very stickey clear tape 2" wide.=C2- I just cut a sl ot in it, inserted the VG, =C2-and applied it to the flabic.=C2- That w as probably 8 years ago and they are still all there.=C2- But you have to look closely, clear Lexan and clear tape, they are nearly invisible.=C2- This project probably cost me about $1.00 in materials and maybe 2 hrs. of time. =C2-=C2- Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Reilly" Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:09:22 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Mike, Did you heat form the .016 Lexan? What fabrication=C2-methods did y ou use? I was contemplating fabricating my own for the underside of the hoi z. stab. but ended up purchasing the VG's to save a little time. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582=C2-Rebuild Rockford, IL Pat Reilly On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:49 AM, < skyflyte@comcast.net > wrote: I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the horiz ontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator.=C2- It wo rked very well! Mike Model II - 582 - #490 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Christensen" < pchristensen10@austin.rr.com > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:10:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can=C2-vg's be to make?=C2- Anybody done that? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended to me and I was very happy with price and the product. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rockford, IL On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter < kenrichter@centurytel.net > w rote: t > I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it di d help but I may consider the vortex generators. Thanks -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 List Fund Raiser. =C2-Click on -= =C2- =C2- * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com http:/r generous support! ronics List Features Navigator to browse s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/ " target="_blank"> http://forums.matronics.com ============== href=" http://www.aeroelectric.com "> www.aeroelectric.com href=" http: //www.buildersbooks.com "> www.buildersbooks.com href=" http://www.homebu ilthelp.com "> www.homebuilthelp.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/cont ribution "> http://www.matronics.com/chref= " http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Kitfox-List "> http://www.matronhref =" http://forums.matronics.c om "> http://forums.matronics.com _blank> www.aeroelectric.com /" target= _blank> www.buildersbooks.com =_blank> www.homebuilthelp.com blank> http: //www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank> http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Kitfox-List p:// forums.matronics.com "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.co m ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp: //forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:14 PM PST US From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Deke, =C2-=C2- Well, it has been a while but I think they were all 3" ahead o f the hinge line, spaced about 3" apart, and angled 17-18 degrees from the airflow.=C2- Almost everything stalls @ 16 degrees or sooner, so I though t that angle would work.=C2- I made a Lexan template so positioning them was easy.=C2- I guess I make a lot of stuff from Lexan! =C2-=C2- Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "fox5flyer" Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:12:56 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 =EF=BB Mike, how far back from the leading edge did you place them?=C2- Did you place them horizontal to the hinge line or did you follow the leading edge line? Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) ----- Original Message ----- From: skyflyte@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the horiz ontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator.=C2- It wo rked very well! Mike Model II - 582 - #490 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Christensen" < pchristensen10@austin.rr.com > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:10:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can=C2-vg's be to make?=C2- Anybody done that? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended to me and I was very happy with price and the product. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rockford, IL On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter < kenrichter@centurytel.net > w rote: t > I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it di d help but I may consider the vortex generators. Thanks -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 List Fund Raiser. =C2-Click on -= =C2- =C2- * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com http:/r generous support! ronics List Features Navigator to browse s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ============== href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://ww w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp .com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox -List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums. matronics.com _blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbo oks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/cont ribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p:// forums.matronics.com href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric. com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="htt p://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matroni cs.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronic ====================== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:32 PM PST US From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Dave, =C2-=C2- Here is how I can tell the difference in elevator effectveness .=C2- Mostly bounced landings (3 point) in the first few years.=C2- The n I saw a Monocoup with fabric gap seals in the elevator.=C2- I made some out of tape and landings were much more predictable.=C2- After adding th e VG's, I could actually get the tail wheel to touch first.=C2- I don't t hink I'll be removing these things to make a video of they=C2-improved pe rformance! =C2-=C2- Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "dave" Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 2:40:41 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 I tried them I think an inch or two ahead of the hinge line =C2-parallel to the hinges. =C2-They did little for my IV . =C2-I have found they he lp alot on super cubs. =C2-The model 2 has less elevator effectiveness th an a model IV so I would think they would see more benefit. I think you guys should post some videos of how much better they work. =C2 -I don't think a model 2 will be able to drag the tailwheel down the runw ay. My Model IV is marginal at doing it . VG's do seem to have a few attributes. I have had them on my IV Kitfox for over 1000 hours and I have not removed them yet. =C2- I would like to alt er some of the spacing and placement =C2-but it flys so damn well =C2-I just don't find it high on the priorities. [quote="Fox5flyer"]Mike, how far back from the leading edge did you =C2 -place them? =C2-Did you place them horizontal to the hinge line or did you =C2-follow the leading edge line? =C2-Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP =C2-438+ TT "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, =C2-in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." -- Nobel prize-winning =C2-economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) =C2-=C2- =C2- > =C2- =C2---- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate =C2-the internet =C2-chatter from th e truth =C2- http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276011#276011 =========== =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== =========== MS - =========== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: Patrick Reilly Mike, Thanks for info. I didn't realize you could cold form Lexan. I ended up using a 3M crazy type glue recommended by the VG mfg. It seems to work fine. Time will tell. Where are you located. Most of us use a signature that gives location and specs of our plane. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 3:04 PM, wrote: > Pat, > > You don't need to heat form Lexan. I cut pieces, probably 1.5" x 1.0", > and bent it in a right angle using a steel ruler so I had a VG 1.5" long and > 0.5" high. Double sided tape didn't stick very well so I used a piece of > very stickey clear tape 2" wide. I just cut a slot in it, inserted the VG, > and applied it to the flabic. That was probably 8 years ago and they are > still all there. But you have to look closely, clear Lexan and clear tape, > they are nearly invisible. This project probably cost me about $1.00 in > materials and maybe 2 hrs. of time. > > Mike > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Reilly" > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:09:22 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > Mike, Did you heat form the .016 Lexan? What fabrication methods did you > use? I was contemplating fabricating my own for the underside of the hoiz. > stab. but ended up purchasing the VG's to save a little time. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > Pat Reilly > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:49 AM, wrote: > >> I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the >> horizontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator. It >> worked very well! >> >> Mike >> >> Model II - 582 - #490 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pete Christensen" >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:10:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada >> Eastern >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 >> >> Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can vg's be to make? Anybody done >> that? >> >> Pete >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Patrick Reilly >> *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 >> >> Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended >> to me and I was very happy with price and the product. >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 >> Rockford, IL >> >> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter wrote: >> >>> kenrichter@centurytel.net> >>> >>> I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it >>> did help but I may consider the vortex generators. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> -------- >>> Ken Richter >>> Osceola,Wi >>> model 3 speedster >>> 582/GSC prop/Grove gear >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> List Fund Raiser. Click on >>> -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com >>> omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com >>> http:/r generous support! >>> ronics List Features Navigator to browse >>> s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" >>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ============= >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> * >> >> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com >> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com >> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com >> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> p://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> * >> >> "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> >> .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> > * > > _blank>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > p://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:46 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: "dave" Mike, Great stuff. How did you stick them to the horiz.stab? I did not mean remove them to compare but to show others how you can land with tailwheel first. This is a big improvement for the pre model IV. Got any pics? Dave skyflyte(at)comcast.net wrote: > Dave, > Here is how I can tell the difference in elevator effectveness. Mostly bounced landings (3 point) in the first few years. Then I saw a Monocoup with fabric gap seals in the elevator. I made some out of tape and landings were much more predictable. After adding the VG's, I could actually get the tail wheel to touch first. I don't think I'll be removing these things to make a video of they improved performance! > Mike > --- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276066#276066 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:32 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: "dave" Pat. you must of used Harrison designs VGs ? They use crazy glue. The Stolspeed.com ones come with adhesive and a real good kick ass one from 3m . HAve you flown your Kitfox yet ? > Mike, Thanks for info. I didn't realize you could cold form Lexan. I ended up using a 3M crazy typeglue recommended by the VG mfg. It seems to work fine. Time will tell. Where are you located. Most of us use a signature that gives location and specs of our plane. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276067#276067 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: Patrick Reilly Deke, The supplier of my VG's recommended 1" infront of rear edge of horiz stab and parallel to the hingeline or rear edge of horiz stab. My horiz stab wasn't mounted yet so I didn't have to lay on my back. FAA is coming tomorrow for airworthiness certificate. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:12 AM, fox5flyer wrote: > Mike, how far back from the leading edge did you place them? Did you > place them horizontal to the hinge line or did you follow the leading edge > line? > Deke Morisse > Mikado Michigan > S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT > "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara > Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." > -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* skyflyte@comcast.net > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:49 AM > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the > horizontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator. It > worked very well! > > Mike > > Model II - 582 - #490 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Christensen" > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:10:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can vg's be to make? Anybody done > that? > > Pete > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Patrick Reilly > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended > to me and I was very happy with price and the product. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 > Rockford, IL > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter wrote: > >> kenrichter@centurytel.net> >> >> I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it >> did help but I may consider the vortex generators. >> >> Thanks >> >> -------- >> Ken Richter >> Osceola,Wi >> model 3 speedster >> 582/GSC prop/Grove gear >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 >> >> >> >> >> >> List Fund Raiser. Click on >> -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com >> omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com >> http:/r generous support! >> ronics List Features Navigator to browse >> s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ============= >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > _blank>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > p://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: Patrick Reilly Dave, I will have to look up my VG supplier. I had to buy the glue. It was recommended by supplier, not supplied. The FAA is coming tomorrow for airworthiness cert. I have taxied only. With my limited experience, I have a test pilot lined up for 1st flight. I'm lucky. A test pilot that has 1st flighted 10 KF lives right here in Rockford. Pat Reilly On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:58 PM, dave wrote: > > Pat. you must of used Harrison designs VGs ? They use crazy glue. > > The Stolspeed.com ones come with adhesive and a real good kick ass one fr om > 3m . > > HAve you flown your Kitfox yet ? > > > > Mike, Thanks for info. I didn't realize you could cold form Lexan. I > ended up using a 3M crazy type=EF=BDglue recommended by the VG mfg. It seems to > work fine. Time will tell. Where are you located. Most of us use a signat ure > that gives location and specs of our plane. > > =EF=BD > > Pat Reilly > > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > > Rockford, IL > > > -------- > Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada > http://www.cfisher.com/ > Awesome *New Forum * > http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ > Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276067#276067 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:44 PM PST US From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 OOps, I haven't posted lately, but I live in S. Berwick, ME, and my Kitfox was born at the Hampton Airport in NH, a great grass airport with lots of a ntiques and homebuilts. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Reilly" Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 6:46:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Mike, Thanks for info. I didn't realize you could cold form Lexan. I ended up using a 3M crazy type=C2-glue recommended by the VG mfg. It seems to w ork fine. Time will tell. Where are you located. Most of us use a signature that gives location and specs of our plane. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 3:04 PM, < skyflyte@comcast.net > wrote: Pat, =C2-=C2- You don't need to heat form Lexan.=C2- I cut pieces, probabl y 1.5" x 1.0", and bent it in a right angle using a steel ruler so I had a VG 1.5" long and 0.5" high.=C2- Double sided tape didn't stick very well so I used a piece of very stickey clear tape 2" wide.=C2- I just cut a sl ot in it, inserted the VG, =C2-and applied it to the flabic.=C2- That w as probably 8 years ago and they are still all there.=C2- But you have to look closely, clear Lexan and clear tape, they are nearly invisible.=C2- This project probably cost me about $1.00 in materials and maybe 2 hrs. of time. =C2-=C2- Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Reilly" < patreilly43@gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:09:22 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Mike, Did you heat form the .016 Lexan? What fabrication=C2-methods did y ou use? I was contemplating fabricating my own for the underside of the hoi z. stab. but ended up purchasing the VG's to save a little time. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582=C2-Rebuild Rockford, IL Pat Reilly On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:49 AM, < skyflyte@comcast.net > wrote: I made mine out of 0.016" lexan and used them on the underside of the horiz ontal stabilizer to increase the effectiveness of the elevator.=C2- It wo rked very well! Mike Model II - 582 - #490 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Christensen" < pchristensen10@austin.rr.com > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:10:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Being a cheap sort of guy, how hard can=C2-vg's be to make?=C2- Anybody done that? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended to me and I was very happy with price and the product. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rockford, IL On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter < kenrichter@centurytel.net > w rote: t > I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it di d help but I may consider the vortex generators. Thanks -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 List Fund Raiser. =C2-Click on -= =C2- =C2- * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com http:/r generous support! ronics List Features Navigator to browse s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/ " target="_blank"> http://forums.matronics.com ============== href=" http://www.aeroelectric.com "> www.aeroelectric.com href=" http: //www.buildersbooks.com "> www.buildersbooks.com href=" http://www.homebu ilthelp.com "> www.homebuilthelp.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/cont ribution "> http://www.matronics.com/chref= " http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Kitfox-List "> http://www.matronhref =" http://forums.matronics.c om "> http://forums.matronics.com _blank> www.aeroelectric.com /" target= _blank> www.buildersbooks.com =_blank> www.homebuilthelp.com blank> http: //www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank> http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Kitfox-List p:// forums.matronics.com "_blank"> www.aeroelectric.com .com/" target="_blank"> www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank"> www.homebuilth elp.com _blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank"> ht tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp:// forums.matronics.com _blank> www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank> www.buildersbooks.com =_ blank> www.homebuilthelp.com blank> http://www.matronics.com/contribution a rget=_blank> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p:// forums.m atronics.com "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.co m ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp: //forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:08 PM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 12/02/09 Michel, you are right about the drooped wingtips. Although I am far too skilled to groundloop a Kitfox, I can tell you first hand that the drooped tip will drag on the grass and only grind off about one fourth inch of fiberglass. A little sandpaper, daub of paint and it is good as new. Us poor folk that can't afford Grove gear take comfort in that feature. PS Has anyone ever made a grove type gear of laid-up fiberglass or laminated spruce? Ed Gray Dallas KII 582 tube gear -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:00 AM Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 12/02/09 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-12-02&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2009-12-02&Archive=Kitfox =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/02/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (Michel Verheughe) 2. 05:13 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (kenjrichter) 3. 07:19 AM - Re: kitfox 3 (Michel Verheughe) 4. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Lowell Fitt) 5. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Marco Menezes) 6. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Pete Christensen) 7. 12:29 PM - Re: kitfox 3 (kenjrichter) 8. 01:34 PM - Re: Dual vernier throttle supplier? (mic thiessen) 9. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Lynn Matteson) 10. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Patrick Reilly) 11. 03:37 PM - Re: kitfox 3 (kenjrichter) 12. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: kitfox 3 (Patrick Reilly) 13. 07:27 PM - Re: Dual vernier throttle supplier? (Av8r3400) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:49 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > From: kenjrichter [kenrichter@centurytel.net] > as far as I can tell its not much faster maybe a few mph but I did notice some > pleasant improvements roll response is faster which I like and it seems like turns > need less rudder input now and also climb seems about the same 1400fpm but it > seems like the speed during the climb is faster overall it seems like the handling > is better or atleast I like it better, Thank you for this report, Ken. Speed, climb, roll and less adverse yaw, is indeed what we would expect, woudn't we? My model 3 is very "classic" with the orignal wings but with a new Jabiru engine. Compared to what are now the new European ultralight class aircraft (limited to 450 kg MTOW) my Kitfox is one of the slowest birds but then, for me it is not about the destination but the journey. I don't mind staying longer in the air! :-) Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:07 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: "kenjrichter" Michel, I too rarely ever really need speed because all I ever do is fly for fun so why be in a hurry right, but sometimes a group of guys from our airport decides to go on a little journey for lunch and my plane has been a tad slow so that makes it hard to keep up and even now if I only gained a few mph it probably wont make much difference but the other improvements are great so I am glad I clipped the wings also makes it easier to get in the hangar I hope I can still get some extra speed from the leading edge pvc I will report on that too. -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275704#275704 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:49 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > From: kenjrichter [kenrichter@centurytel.net] > I hope I can still get some extra speed from the leading edge pvc I will report on > that too. Speed is always good, Ken. Less drag and faster climb rate when you meet the trees at the end of the runway, is always welcomed. I intend to fly to the North Cape (northern point of Norway) with a gang of Belgian/French ultralight pilots next summer and I already know that I'll have to take off first or ... land last. I understand you very well. One thing that prevented me, so far, to do anything with the wings is that I like the drooping winglets because I have, perhaps only the illusion, that it will protect my flaperons should I end in a ground loop where the wing tip meets the ground. When I started flying my Kitfox, and fearing a ground loop, I even considered putting small wheels at the end of the winglets but ... I was afraid other pilots would laugh at me! :-) I look forward to reading your report on the PVC leading edges. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:59 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 To philosophize here a bit. I agree that speed is good, when you want to get somewhere fast. I wonder sometimes, however, when we enjoy flying as much as we do, why do we seem to want to get back on the ground so soon. When flying with our group - sometimes from four airplanes to occasionally as many as ten - we always flew at the speed of the slowest airplane. It was never a problem as the joy of the flight was seeing each other out the windows and sharing the combined view - the navy research submarines on the lake, the antelope near the pond or the junk collecters in the desert and of course the goofy chat as we digested all that we could see. We occasionally flew with folks that always flew at one speed and they would then sit on the ground waiting for the rest of us to arrive. I always wondered about that. For us at least, the joy was in the flight, not merely sharing a table at a destination. Then there was the time that the RV4 followed us to a fly-in he couldn't locate. He flew circles above us as we followed the course of a winding river at 100 ft. It obviously doesn't always work. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "kenjrichter" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:10 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > > Michel, I too rarely ever really need speed because all I ever do is fly > for fun so why be in a hurry right, but sometimes a group of guys from our > airport decides to go on a little journey for lunch and my plane has been > a tad slow so that makes it hard to keep up and even now if I only gained > a few mph it probably wont make much difference but the other improvements > are great so I am glad I clipped the wings also makes it easier to get in > the hangar I hope I can still get some extra speed from the leading edge > pvc I will report on that too. > > -------- > Ken Richter > Osceola,Wi > model 3 speedster > 582/GSC prop/Grove gear > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275704#275704 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:09 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 That makes 3 of us. Osceola-County, Michigan here. - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch - do not archive --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Lyle Persels wrote: From: Lyle Persels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Ken, I have a model IV with a 912ULS, but I flew off the original 40 hours on a friend's Model IV Speedster. I found the roll response considerably better with the shorter wings, and it didn't float as much on landing flare. I lik ed it just fine. I'm in Osceola, too--Osceola, Iowa. Lyle Persels Osceola, IA KF-IV 1200 912ULS 450 Hrs On 12 1, 09, at 5:27 PM, kenjrichter wrote: et> > > I'm not sure how many list members have model 3's and are interested in t his info but I flew my model 3 with the shortened wings today for the first time and heres what I noticed---it was a little windy today so I may need to wait for another day with no wind to see the speed difference but as far as I can tell its not much faster maybe a few mph but I did notice s ome pleasant improvements roll response is faster which I like and it seems like turns need less rudder input now and also climb seems about the same 1400fpm but it seems like the speed during the climb is faster- overall i t seems like the handling is better or atleast I like it better,- next is the pvc leading edge I hope to get this done this week. > > Ken Richter > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275653#275653 > > > > > > > > > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:43 AM PST US From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 Lowel, You brought up another thought. I once flew my Kitfox III on a several hour cross country with a friend who was flying his 172. He was amazed at how good his gph was throttled back to stay with me. Pete -- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > To philosophize here a bit. I agree that speed is good, when you want to > get somewhere fast. I wonder sometimes, however, when we enjoy flying as > much as we do, why do we seem to want to get back on the ground so soon. > > When flying with our group - sometimes from four airplanes to occasionally > as many as ten - we always flew at the speed of the slowest airplane. It > was never a problem as the joy of the flight was seeing each other out the > windows and sharing the combined view - the navy research submarines on > the lake, the antelope near the pond or the junk collecters in the desert > and of course the goofy chat as we digested all that we could see. We > occasionally flew with folks that always flew at one speed and they would > then sit on the ground waiting for the rest of us to arrive. I always > wondered about that. For us at least, the joy was in the flight, not > merely sharing a table at a destination. > > Then there was the time that the RV4 followed us to a fly-in he couldn't > locate. He flew circles above us as we followed the course of a winding > river at 100 ft. It obviously doesn't always work. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kenjrichter" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:10 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 > > >> >> >> Michel, I too rarely ever really need speed because all I ever do is fly >> for fun so why be in a hurry right, but sometimes a group of guys from >> our airport decides to go on a little journey for lunch and my plane has >> been a tad slow so that makes it hard to keep up and even now if I only >> gained a few mph it probably wont make much difference but the other >> improvements are great so I am glad I clipped the wings also makes it >> easier to get in the hangar I hope I can still get some extra speed from >> the leading edge pvc I will report on that too. >> >> -------- >> Ken Richter >> Osceola,Wi >> model 3 speedster >> 582/GSC prop/Grove gear >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275704#275704 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:15 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: "kenjrichter" Wow, I didn't realize Osceola was such a popular name I guess Chief Osceola was a popular Indian, I wanted to comment on Michel's post about not wanting to lose the drooping wingtips I didn't lose mine when I cut the wings shorter I just remounted them on the next rib it was pretty simple really I just used 1"x1/16 alum flat and screwed and glued it to the rib flange and then the tips attach to that just like it was before and I'm not really sure it would save you in a ground loop anyway my plane has damage from what looks to have been a ground loop. it has a bend under the seat where the limit cables attach and the left wing has been rebuilt from about four feet in from the tip and that flapperon has some wrinkles in it at about four feet in as well all this and the plane had 8 hours on it when I got it must have been a rough 8 hrs. I hear alot about ground loops with these planes but in my 60 hours flying it I have not even had a close call it seems very stable on the ground but maybe this is because of the grove gear. -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275828#275828 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:13 PM PST US From: mic thiessen Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dual vernier throttle supplier? Hi Carl Give Bob Robertson a call 1 888 418-4164 1 250 832-8786 He makes the best there are out of special flat wire cable that when it is pushed it actually wants to straighten out instead of bend. mic > Subject: Kitfox-List: Dual vernier throttle supplier? > From: cschmokel@gmail.com > Date: Tue=2C 1 Dec 2009 22:47:58 -0800 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > Hey guys=2C > > I contacted Kitfox for a dual vernier throttle to hook up to my Rotax 912 ULS. The friction lock is driving me nuts .. They said their supplier recen tly discontinued manufacturing the dual vernier thanks to some NTSB notice. So .. does anybody know where to get a dual vernier or how to make one?? T hanks! > > Carl > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275690#275690 > > > > > > > ========== ========== ========== ========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Eligible CDN College & University students can upgrade to Windows 7 before Jan 3 for only $39.99. Upgrade now! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid'91819 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:16 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 I'd have to say almost uncertainly it was because of the Grove gear....a wider stance, and a bit lower too, if I'm not mistaken. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 818.9 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~185 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) do not archive On Dec 2, 2009, at 3:26 PM, kenjrichter wrote: > > > I hear alot about ground loops with these planes but in my 60 > hours flying it I have not even had a close call it seems very > stable on the ground but maybe this is because of the grove gear. > > -------- > Ken Richter > Osceola,Wi > model 3 speedster > 582/GSC prop/Grove gear > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275828#275828 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: Patrick Reilly Ken, If you are marginal on elevator authority, did you consider gap seals or vortex generators under the horiz stabilizer? Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:08 PM, kenjrichter wrote: > kenrichter@centurytel.net> > > Lyle, I forgot to mention that the landings were better I used to run out > of elevator authority before the plane was done flying making it hard to > land but now thats better as well. > > Ken Richter > model 3 speedster > 582/GSC prop/Grove gear > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275669#275669 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:46 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: "kenjrichter" I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it did help but I may consider the vortex generators. Thanks -------- Ken Richter Osceola,Wi model 3 speedster 582/GSC prop/Grove gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: kitfox 3 From: Patrick Reilly Ken, If you decide on VG's let me know. The ones I bought were recommended to me and I was very happy with price and the product. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rockford, IL On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:34 PM, kenjrichter wrote: > kenrichter@centurytel.net> > > I do have the elevator gap seal I put that on before the wing mod and it > did help but I may consider the vortex generators. > > Thanks > > -------- > Ken Richter > Osceola,Wi > model 3 speedster > 582/GSC prop/Grove gear > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275873#275873 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:58 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Dual vernier throttle supplier? From: "Av8r3400" McFarlane (http://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Details.aspx?ID=79240606&Article 0) has the dual cables for a 900 series Rotax. They have been advertising in EAA magazines like Sport Aviation. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275902#275902 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:10 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: battery capacity From: "clemwehner" How do I determine the minimum battery capacity required for a KF model IV with a 912 and minimal avionics? I'm convinced the RG (starved electrolyte) battery is the right type (like the Odyssey), but what size is the right size? We're looking to save weight but don't want to do anything stupid. thanks, Clem Wehner KF IV-912 Oklahoma -------- Clem Oklahoma Kitfox IV-912, under construction since 1991 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276122#276122 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.