Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: EGTs are killing me (Ken Potter)
2. 04:39 AM - Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 05:15 AM - Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas (ctmcdowell@comcast.net)
4. 05:50 AM - Re: EGTs are killing me (dave)
5. 07:06 AM - Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas (Mark Napier (napierm))
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Leaded gasoline and two stroke oil recommendation (akflyer)
7. 11:58 AM - Re: battery capacity (Noel Loveys)
8. 02:41 PM - Re: EGTs are killing me (Noel Loveys)
9. 08:49 PM - Re: Re: EGTs are killing me (Noel Loveys)
10. 10:15 PM - Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas (WurlyBird)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs are killing me |
Interesting discussion. I'll be breaking in my 582 and test flying in the spring.
I was planning on using Shell 2 stroke snowmobile oil which is approved by
Bombardier. It's available here in Canada at any Canadian Tire store. Any
comments??
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
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| Subject: | Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas |
First and foremost, has anyone here have any FIRST HAND experience with
washing
ethanol out of fuel? I would like to hear about it.
You wash away the octane too, not good.
Dick Maddux
Milton,Fl
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas |
Wash out ethanol out?=C2- Yes Dick, I took a=C2-big glass jug. I put ex
actly 5 gal. in. I poured a measured 1qt. of water. Mixed it up a bit. The
next day I=C2-drained out just under=C2-2 ltr . 's of cloudy liquid. It
wasn't gas.=C2-I set this on a shelf for a few days. As I walked around
the shop, I kept smelling White Lightning (pure grain alcohol ).=C2- \
=C2-=C2-=C2- Didn't=C2-put the stripped gas=C2-in my plane-I dump
ed it into my truck. Because I don't know what=C2-else I stripped out, I
will not fly with it. To lower the ethanol I cut the mogas =C2-with no mo
re than 1/2=C2-100LL=C2-and add seafoam . =C2-=C2--'Lion 8'- (Tom)
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: Catz631@ aol .com
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 7:39:01 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Washed gas and Leaded gas
=C2-First and foremost, has anyone here have any FIRST HAND experience wi
th washing
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- ethanol out of fuel?=C2- I would like to h
ear about it.
You wash away the octane too, not good.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2- Dick Maddux
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
====================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs are killing me |
Guys here use that Shell oil that is API TC rated to pre mix engines.
Rest use Bombardier XPS mineral oil
I have also used Castrol Super 2 stroke available at Walmart for about 4.50 a
litre.
I think any of the 3 above will work. Castrol makes Bombardier oil.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
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| Subject: | Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas |
Hey James,
I've heard other talk about washing gas too but there is a problem with
that. The alcohol raises the octane rating of gas. Because of this the
refiners actually ship a product that has a lower octane rating and when
mixed with 10 percent alcohol it then has the octane rating shown on the
pump.
Taking the alcohol back out reverses the process. Now what the octane
rating is without the alcohol I don't know. I *guess* you could buy the
93 octane gas (if you can find it) and be able to lose a few octane
points and still be OK. Long term I think it's easier to change the
tanks and be done with it.
As for the 100LL, it was my mistake for not using a lead scavenger in
the gas when going x-country. I would absolutely recommend using it if
you are burning strait avgas. I don't know what to say about what oil
to use with it; others here have some good suggestions.
I've also heard of the guys using "Sea Foam" to clean the rings, but
again, I have no direct experience. Rotax says to pull the cylinders at
150 hours and clean the rings. Based on my experience I would say
that's good advice. You can't really tell if the ring is free without
getting the piston in your hand. A set of aftermarket of seals (I've
used these and they are perfectly good except for the crankshaft end
seals) will only cost about $50 to do the job. Just the top end seals
are only $30.
Gaskets: http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/711194.html
HKS still runs and recommends running car gas. But they are near a
marina in FL and can still get E0 fuel there.
FWIW,
Mark Napier
Time: 06:55:34 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Washed gas and Leaded gas
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
So here is the new topic on my mind;
First and foremost, has anyone here have any FIRST HAND experience with
washing
ethanol out of fuel? I would like to hear about it.
I have read here and on other sites about simply adding water and then
draining
off the ethanol free fuel but it just sounds wrong to me.
I am planning on replacing my fuel tanks with E compatible ones but I am
not ready
yet because I have not allocated the cash first of all but also I am
still
concerned about the down time so I am going to wait until deeper into
winter
when I will not be too upset about not flying for a few weeks. When I
first started
to run into the issue with no ethanol free fuel in my area I was told
that
the plug fouling was the only major issue with 100LL but that is not
sounding
like the case right now. I am probably 40 hours into running straight
100LL
and I am wondering if I am putting my engine (and butt) at risk. So I
really
need to figure out a solution and preferably by Saturday.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
The ink is still drying on my new certificate
Read this topic online here:
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Leaded gasoline and two stroke oil recommendation |
Here's the reference sheet for SUPERGARD Sea & Snow 2-Cycle Engine Oil which is
a
synthetic blend. Use when TC-W3 oils are not recommended.
Paul, this is what I use. In fact, I just bought another 40 gallons of it, so
I should be good to go for awhile.
We use it in the planes, boats and snow machines with great results. No issues
to date, with 10s of thousands of collective miles and hours and not one oil
related issue. At 12 bucks a gallon, I am sticking with it.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (87 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276822#276822
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| Subject: | battery capacity |
As far as I know the load resistor is a fairly hefty thing... as electronic
resistors go. I don't think it can handle anything over 2W and is designed
to pass a lot lower wattage than that. Without checking I think the
resistor that was on my 582 was around 3.5 kOhm. That means there is about
..0039A. going across the resistor or .05 W. at stabilized 13.8V.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: battery capacity
I would guess that Bombardier didn't build in a dummy load because A) they
didn't design or build it, B) it isn't necessary when an actual load is
present C) the heat generated by wasting 12-16 watts of generated power
would be damaging to the unit without a constant source of cooling and D)
because this is the cheapest unit they could find that does the job most of
the time. (well it's cheap when Rotax BUYS it. No guarantee about when they
sell it).
I posted a long time ago about how these units regulate and the advantages
and disadvantages of each. The best by far is the key west unit if you want
to stick to "official" units. Any unit off virtually any permanent magnet
alternator equipped motorcycle, scooter, outboard, garden tractor, could be
used even one from a late model Harley if you are predisposed to Harley type
stuff.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: battery capacity
>
> My take on it, after having a look at the schematic, is the voltage
> regulator requires some load on it at all times to work properly. Without
> the load if you happen to turn everything off the regulator can overload
> and
> go into runaway. If that happens with a 9XX and the built in alternator
> the
> answer is simply to switch everything on and unfortunately, replace your
> regulator/rectifier as soon as practical. If you have an optional high
> output exterior alternator don't turn anything on because the voltages
> will
> be high enough to fry bacon.
>
> I do have a question I'd like to pose to Msr. A. Bombardier. Why didn't
> they build in a load into the rectifier/regulator? It would make wiring a
> lot easier for amateurs who are more interested in flying
>
> Noel
Message 8
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| Subject: | EGTs are killing me |
Bombardier recommends not using outboard motor oil. Apparently the air
cooled oil can withstand the higher temps that the aviation engines endure.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
Stokesberry
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EGTs are killing me
Mark,
You say you are using 2-stroke oil for air cooled engines.
The 582 is water cooled - in your experience does it make any difference to
use the water cooled 2-stroke oil or the air cooled 2-stroke oil for the 582
engine ?
Cecil in North Idaho
Kitfox IV 1050 582 C box GSC prop
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Mark Napier (napierm) <napierm@cisco.com>
wrote:
<napierm@cisco.com>
Hey James,
I ran 200 hours on a 582 with the HACMan. It works pretty well. Be
advised that one way to lower your EGT's is by increasing the pitch of
the prop. Mine turned about 5800 static. Only problem I had with it
was the supplied barbs didn't hold the lines very well so I replaced
them with something a little better. Same with the plastic clamps.
Just use 2 turns of safety wire instead. To get a little more
adjustment range out of the HACMan I put in a "vacuum restrictor"
orifice (drilled out with a #40 drill bit) in the air sense line coming
from the air cleaner. If you do that then go up one size on your main
jets.
Also, the #55 idle jets that come with the carbs are too big. Replace
them with #45 and the engine will idle much better. Before I changed
mine out the motor would often quit on final approach and tended to foul
up on the ground. The iridium plugs help some too.
About avgas: I stuck my rings and had the engine sag on me during a
take-off run. It just plain quit taxing back. Fortunately I aborted
but 10 seconds later would have been over the trees with few options.
The inside of my engine looked like it was power coated white. Piston
tops, heads, exhaust system, all of them looked like they had just come
out of the paint shop and the cylinders were scratched. When I called
South Mississippi to describe the problem, he said "Let me guess, the
inside of your motor looks like it was painted white." This was at ~180
hours with mostly running car gas but getting avgas at stops cross
country flights. The oil was Pennsoil 2-stroke for air cooled engines.
Maybe the lead scavengers or other oils would do better, I can't say.
Now I can't buy car gas w/o alcohol but all things considered I would
rather replace my tanks than feed the engine on a steady diet of lead.
Charging system: The engine is only good for about 10 amps. For
instance, I could run the radio, strobes, intercom and still put a
couple of amps into the battery. However nav lights put me into the
red. Fortunately I almost never needed the nav lights! I used the
odyssey 625 battery with good results.
FWIW,
Mark Napier
Time: 06:00:34 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: EGTs are killing me
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
Somebody with a good working knowledge of the inside of a Bing 54 PLEASE
HELP ME.
Lets start at the beginning, as temps started to drop below about 55-60f
I
started having EGT trouble and I started reading up and doing some
adjustments.
The needle jet, jet needle, and up until yesterday the main jet were
stock.
I installed the HACman which comes with 180 main jets and I purchased
but did
not install the next size up of needle jets, 2.74 I think. I read that
going
up a needle jet size could cool off the mid RPMs but I wanted to work
with
the HACman before I made any more adjustments.
So today I had the HACman full rich for all but a couple minutes of the
flight
when I leaned it just to make sure it worked properly. Temp was 32f and
PA was
500'. Climbing at 62-6500 yielded 1125-1150 and cruise at 5800 was 1175
as
long as the prop was loaded, any decent and it headed for 1200. I went
to adjust
the needle and found that it was actually on the bottom ring, tho one
that
I am pretty sure is not supposed to be used for a setting so I actually
took
it back up to the third ring from the top just to see if it was a case
of too
far in the right direction is no better and nothing improved.
According to the
chart I have seen I should be running the 165 main jet with stock
needles at
all temperatures at this altitude but it is obviously not working.
Should I install the 2.74 needle jets? Might this fix the hi temps? I
have a
new prop on the way that is bigger and that should help a little but not
when
it is unloaded. What adjustments do needles make, is there a better
needle for
my situation? Where I am the temps often swing 25-30 degrees through
the day
and I cannot chase these EGTs.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
The ink is still drying on my new certificate
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs are killing me |
The Decalin scavenger requires one thing to work. heat. Ie the heat given
off in combustion. That is why it works very well at keeping the top end and
plugs very clean however it does nothing to keep the lower end and main
bearings free of plating. Their own web site, the last time I was there,
only mentioned the top end for that exact reason.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:26 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: EGTs are killing me
At 03:01 PM 12/6/2009, you wrote:
What would worry me most is the possibility that lead is plating on your
main roller bearings. If you get a serious build up of lead there it could
cause a seizure... in flight! Additives the scavenge lead only work when
the fuel is burned so they will not protect your lower end. They should
however help keep your plugs from fouling.
I don't know if I'd worry too much about it. I've run nothing but 100LL
through my 582 for 400 hours using Decalin scavenger and don't seem to be
suffering for it.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas |
I kind of figured the "washed" fuel was more of a myth then something being practiced
right now. I have some leave coming up so maybe I just need to plan on
spending some down time in the garage, if only I can get the supplies in time.
For some reason when I first started looking into new fuel tanks I decided
to stick with the Skystar tanks instead of the drop in tanks that are about $500.
At about a $400 difference I can't for the life of me remember why.
As has been mentioned the lead scavengers only work when burned so it only helps
the top end of the engine. Having run straight avgas for about 40-50 hours
is there reason to think that I should go ahead and have the engine looked at?
If I can just get 3 more months of flying I will have no issues with pulling
the engine out for a service, I don't want any down time before my next government
funded "vacation" [Shocked]
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
The ink is still drying on my new certificate
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