---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/20/10: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:44 AM - Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge (catz631@aol.com) 2. 06:59 AM - Kiev prop (catz631@aol.com) 3. 07:48 AM - Re: Kiev Prop (Av8r3400) 4. 08:34 AM - Re: Kiev prop (Lowell Fitt) 5. 08:37 AM - Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge (Dave Fisher) 6. 08:43 AM - Re: Kiev Prop (FlyboyTR) 7. 08:47 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (FlyboyTR) 8. 09:01 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Lynn Matteson) 9. 09:03 AM - Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge (Dave Fisher) 10. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Dave Fisher) 11. 09:20 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (FlyboyTR) 12. 09:29 AM - Re: Kiev prop (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 13. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Dave Fisher) 14. 09:46 AM - Re: Kiev prop (Guy Buchanan) 15. 01:00 PM - Re: Kiev prop (JC Propeller Design) 16. 02:01 PM - Re: Kiev prop (Patrick Reilly) 17. 02:12 PM - Kiev prop (catz631@aol.com) 18. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Patrick Reilly) 19. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Kiev Prop (Patrick Reilly) 20. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Lynn Matteson) 21. 05:14 PM - Re: 582 owners show me some Oil reservoirs (Tom Jones) 22. 08:36 PM - Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge (mikeperkins) 23. 09:03 PM - Re: Kiev prop (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 24. 09:03 PM - Re: Kiev prop (Lowell Fitt) 25. 09:11 PM - Re: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge (Scott DeMeyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:42 AM PST US From: catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Dave, I am sorry to hear about the failure in your gauge but in some ways I am going ...Yessssss ! The old adage "misery loves company" is true in this case. I hate being the only one that ever has a problem with a product.(it has been that way lately) Perhaps voodoo did have something to do with it. Anyway, I do hope you find the problem and if it is a jammed rotor in the transducer, tell Northstar about it. My transducer was mounted perfectly vertical as per the instructions and both of them failed in short order Dick Maddux Fox 4 Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:53 AM PST US From: catz631@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop I just mounted my Kiev prop and wanted to show a picture of it. I haven't flown it yet as I am still doing the set up. There are some hub differences between it and the Warp. I do like the Warps method of attaching the prop hub to the flange better than Kievs. The Warp uses the outer holes with bushings into the hub where the Kiev uses the inner 8 mm holes (I have a mid 90's engine) I am currently trying to find some better prop bolts. The Kiev distributor says that the only 8 mm bolts that will work are made by the Chinese. I don't buy that and am currently looking for better prop bolts. I know AN bolts are not made in metric sizes, but there has to be something equally as good that will work. The prop flange on my engine has threaded holes for the 8 mm bolts so the bolts must thread into them and then I will safety wire the head of the bolts as I did with my Warp. As soon as I get everything taken care of I will put the results on this forum. I hope it performs as well as it looks! It sure did on the Paradise, Highlander and other aircraft. Dick Maddux Fox 4 Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:12 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kiev Prop From: "Av8r3400" Dick, Go talk to your local Fastenall dealer, get someone who is a little experienced and tell them what you are looking for, comparable to AN hardware in a metric. I've had good luck with them. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282473#282473 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:30 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop Dick, For what it's worth, when I was mounting my first Warp prop, I found that the 5/16 bolts were a bit tighter in the holes than the 8mm metric bolts. I measured a sample on hand - actually the original unused 8mm and an old AN 5/16" and the diameters are .308 and .311 inches respectively - the AN bolt a tad larger. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:52 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop >I just mounted my Kiev prop and wanted to show a picture of it. I haven't > flown it yet as I am still doing the set up. There are some hub > differences > between it and the Warp. I do like the Warps method of attaching the prop > hub > to the flange better than Kievs. The Warp uses the outer holes with > bushings into the hub where the Kiev uses the inner 8 mm holes (I have a > mid 90's > engine) I am currently trying to find some better prop bolts. The Kiev > distributor says that the only 8 mm bolts that will work are made by the > Chinese. > I don't buy that and am currently looking for better prop bolts. I know AN > bolts are not made in metric sizes, but there has to be something equally > as > good that will work. The prop flange on my engine has threaded holes for > the 8 mm bolts so the bolts must thread into them and then I will safety > wire > the head of the bolts as I did with my Warp. > As soon as I get everything taken care of I will put the results on this > forum. I hope it performs as well as it looks! It sure did on the > Paradise, > Highlander and other aircraft. > Dick Maddux > Fox 4 > Milton,Fl > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:20 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Will go flying later today I had this afew times before with it cleared up this time ? no idea Wil let you know ----- Original Message ----- From: catz631@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Dave, I am sorry to hear about the failure in your gauge but in some ways I am going ...Yessssss ! The old adage "misery loves company" is true in this case. I hate being the only one that ever has a problem with a product.(it has been that way lately) Perhaps voodoo did have something to do with it. Anyway, I do hope you find the problem and if it is a jammed rotor in the transducer, tell Northstar about it. My transducer was mounted perfectly vertical as per the instructions and both of them failed in short order Dick Maddux Fox 4 Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:41 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kiev Prop From: "FlyboyTR" Dick, This is the company I use for my prop bolts, nuts, etc. http://www.sabermfg.com/ They do not list metric on their website, but, in the past they have provided appropriate metric prop bolts to several folks I know. They are real picky about "what" they sell. Travis :D -------- Travis Rayner Mobile, AL Skystar Vixen, N-789DF Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop ADI-II Autopilot AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282488#282488 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:30 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? From: "FlyboyTR" Lynn, Thanks for that info. I believe each aileron cavity is sealed (at least on my plane). I think the epoxy extends all the way to the trailing edge. My wings do have the drain holes along the trailing edge/bottom. Thanks again! Travis :D -------- Travis Rayner Mobile, AL Skystar Vixen, N-789DF Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop ADI-II Autopilot AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282489#282489 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:06 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? You're welcome, Travis. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) do not archive On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:47 AM, FlyboyTR wrote: > > Lynn, > Thanks for that info. I believe each aileron cavity is sealed (at > least on my plane). I think the epoxy extends all the way to the > trailing edge. > > My wings do have the drain holes along the trailing edge/bottom. > Thanks again! > > Travis :D > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:39 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Dick ok, just went for a quick flight -7 C here today and still shows zero oh well ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Fisher To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Will go flying later today I had this afew times before with it cleared up this time ? no idea Wil let you know ----- Original Message ----- From: catz631@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Dave, I am sorry to hear about the failure in your gauge but in some ways I am going ...Yessssss ! The old adage "misery loves company" is true in this case. I hate being the only one that ever has a problem with a product.(it has been that way lately) Perhaps voodoo did have something to do with it. Anyway, I do hope you find the problem and if it is a jammed rotor in the transducer, tell Northstar about it. My transducer was mounted perfectly vertical as per the instructions and both of them failed in short order Dick Maddux Fox 4 Milton,Fl href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:00 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? I have holes drill on my flaperons and I drill everyone I work on that does not have drain holes. about ever foot or two. leave it in the rain once and you will see how fast they fill up ----- Original Message ----- From: "FlyboyTR" Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:47 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? > > Lynn, > Thanks for that info. I believe each aileron cavity is sealed (at least > on my plane). I think the epoxy extends all the way to the trailing edge. > > My wings do have the drain holes along the trailing edge/bottom. Thanks > again! > > Travis :D > > -------- > Travis Rayner > Mobile, AL > Skystar Vixen, N-789DF > Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop > ADI-II Autopilot > AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather > www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282489#282489 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:19 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? From: "FlyboyTR" Has anyone come up with a hinge seal to help prevent or reduce water getting in the ailerons? Travis :D -------- Travis Rayner Mobile, AL Skystar Vixen, N-789DF Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop ADI-II Autopilot AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282495#282495 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Wed, January 20, 2010 8:28 am, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > Dick, > > For what it's worth, when I was mounting my first Warp prop, I found that > the 5/16 bolts were a bit tighter in the holes than the 8mm metric bolts. I > measured a sample on hand - actually the original unused 8mm and an old AN > 5/16" and the diameters are .308 and .311 inches respectively - the AN bolt > a tad larger. That's surprising since the nominal sizes are: 5/16" == 0.3125" 8 mm == 0.3150" Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly smaller, not larger. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:20 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? might help but there is no reason to NOT have a drain out everywhere . ----- Original Message ----- From: "FlyboyTR" Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? > > Has anyone come up with a hinge seal to help prevent or reduce water > getting in the ailerons? > > Travis :D > > -------- > Travis Rayner > Mobile, AL > Skystar Vixen, N-789DF > Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop > ADI-II Autopilot > AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather > www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282495#282495 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:42 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop At 06:52 AM 1/20/2010, you wrote: >I know AN bolts are not made in metric sizes, but there has to be >something equally as good that will work. The prop flange on my >engine has threaded holes for the 8 mm bolts so the bolts must >thread into them and then I will safety wire the head of the bolts >as I did with my Warp. Roger, I use 8mm bolts I obtained from CPS, http://www.800-airwolf.com/. They were drilled, too. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:26 PM PST US From: "JC Propeller Design" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop A 5/16 AN5 is 7,9375 mm, on most bolts they are a bit smaller then that an 8 mm bolt is 8.0000 mm and thread pitch is 1.2500 mm/t or fine pitch thread 1.0000 mm AN5 -24 have 24 threads per inch = tread pitch is 1.058 mm and is rated 125000 psi, that is 87,9 kg/mm2 or 862 MPa That will be a 9.8 class metric bolt Table 10 MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CARBON STEEL EXTERNALLY-THREADED METRIC FASTENERS Property Class Designation Nominal Size of Product Material and Treatment Mechanical Requirements Property Class Ident. Marking Proof Load Stress, MPa Tensile Yield Strength, MPa, Min. Tensile Ultimate Strength, MPa, Min. Prod. Hardness, Rockwell Surface, Max. Core Min. Max. 4.6 M5-M100 low or medium carbon steel 225 240 400 -- B67 B95 4.6 4.8 M1.6-M16 low or medium carbon steel, fully or partially annealed 310 340 420 -- B71 B95 4.8 5.8 M5-M24 low or medium carbon steel, cold worked 380 420 520 -- B82 B95 5.8 8.8 M16-M72 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 A325M Type 1 M16-M36 A325M 8S 8.8 M16-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 A325M Type 2 A325M 8S A325M Type 3 M16-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 A325M 8S3 9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 10.9 M5-M20 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 10.9 M5-M100 medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 A490M Type 1 M12-M36 A490M 10S 10.9 M5-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 A490M Type 2 M12-M36 A490M 10S A490M Type 3 M12-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 A490M 10S3 12.9 M1.6-M100 alloy steel, quenched and tempered 970 1100 1220 30N63 C38 C44 12.9 > > That's surprising since the nominal sizes are: > > 5/16" == 0.3125" > 8 mm == 0.3150" > > Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly > smaller, not larger. > > -- > Paul A. Franz > Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT > Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP > Bellevue WA > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop From: Patrick Reilly Dick, I had to find a source for 8mm longer bolts when I put on my prop extension. Fastenal had to order them. but, they got them in a few days no problem. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:52 AM, wrote: > I just mounted my Kiev prop and wanted to show a picture of it. I haven't > flown it yet as I am still doing the set up. There are some hub differences > between it and the Warp. I do like the Warps method of attaching the prop > hub to the flange better than Kievs. The Warp uses the outer holes with > bushings into the hub where the Kiev uses the inner 8 mm holes (I have a > mid 90's engine) I am currently trying to find some better prop bolts. The > Kiev distributor says that the only 8 mm bolts that will work are made by > the Chinese. I don't buy that and am currently looking for better > prop bolts. I know AN bolts are not made in metric sizes, but there has to > be something equally as good that will work. The prop flange on my engine > has threaded holes for the 8 mm bolts so the bolts must thread into them and > then I will safety wire the head of the bolts as I did with my Warp. > As soon as I get everything taken care of I will put the results on this > forum. I hope it performs as well as it looks! It sure did on the Paradise, > Highlander and other aircraft. > Dick Maddux > Fox 4 > Milton,Fl > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:35 PM PST US From: catz631@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop Well, it looks like you guys were right. You just can't get a great deal of performance improvement by switching props. I tried the first test of my Kiev today and it was rather disappointing. Here are some of the results: 1. Warp prop: Take off rpm 5400, cruise 88mph @5000 rpm @52 degrees temp 2. Kiev prop: Take off rpm 5400,cruise 82mph @ 5000rpm @ 70 degrees Full throttle reached 5800 rpm (did not note speed) All of this was done at 1200 AGL. The test with the Kiev was done without the spinner so perhaps that will help the cruise a bit. Further tweaking with the prop pitch might give me better results. I had to land as a mighty big thunderstorm was approaching. This aircraft is not all that speedy anyway due to the fat tires, bush gear,80hp,etc..lots of drag. As soon as the weather gets better in a few days, I will test it some more. Dick Maddux Fox 4 Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? From: Patrick Reilly Lynn, My plane does not have drain holes in the flaperons. Seeing the openings at the bearings they could collect a significant amount of water. How many and where are the drain holes placed in the flaperons. My builders manual is at the hangar. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > You're welcome, Travis. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs > Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying (and learning) > do not archive > > > On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:47 AM, FlyboyTR wrote: > >> >> Lynn, >> Thanks for that info. I believe each aileron cavity is sealed (at least >> on my plane). I think the epoxy extends all the way to the trailing edge. >> >> My wings do have the drain holes along the trailing edge/bottom. Thanks >> again! >> >> Travis :D >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kiev Prop From: Patrick Reilly Dick, Another Fastenall satisfied customer heard from. If I remember correctly there were 2 grades of the 8mm bolts. I can't remember the specifics. I was satisfied with the specs of the harder one I believe. Pat Reilly On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Av8r3400 wrote: > > Dick, Go talk to your local Fastenall dealer, get someone who is a little > experienced and tell them what you are looking for, comparable to AN > hardware in a metric. > > I've had good luck with them. > > -------- > Thanks, > Av8r3400 > > Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO > Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282473#282473 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:27 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? I'll just copy here what I posted a few days earlier: they say a 3/16" hole "in the bottom skin aft of each hinge, about 3/4" ahead of the trailing edge for a moisture drain hole." I think I was thinking of the drain holes in the wing fabric. So the manual must not think that's there's an appreciable amount of moisture collecting inside the individual bays of the flaperon. Or they have a channel that would allow for the flow of moisture between the bays/ cavities. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) On Jan 20, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > Lynn, My plane does not have drain holes in the flaperons. Seeing > the openings at the bearings they could collect a significant > amount of water. How many and where are the drain holes placed in > the flaperons. My builders manual is at the hangar. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:29 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 owners show me some Oil reservoirs From: "Tom Jones" Here's an update on what I did. I also have a couple more questions about mounting the oil tank. My builder's manual is for a 503 and does not cover oil tanks. Attached are three photos. The tank is from a Ski Doo. the price was right and it came with all the fittings and a low level warning float and switch. Notice that there is a "Sump" that the bottom fitting sits in. I notice on the photos I have seen of the rectangular tanks on Kitfoxes that they are mounted at an angle. I figured this was to make one bottom corner a low point for the fitting to prevent unporting. So, I mounted my tank at an angle with the fitting being on the low bottom corner. I looked at those photos again and see that the one Dave posted a link to in another thread http://www.rotaxaircraft.com/forum/download/file.php?id=210&mode=view shows the fitting is on the high bottom corner not the low one. Can someone with a manual that covers this take a look and let me know what it says about this, if anything. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282584#282584 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/end_view_of_tank_577.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_parts_139.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_mounted_222.jpg ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:47 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge From: "mikeperkins" It's a little scary to jump into this hot topic when it almost seems to have settle down, but anyway. . . . I've probably got 35 hours on my F210. A pre-installation volume test showed that it was within 5%, as advertised. After some flight testing to determine flow rates at different steady airspeeds, I started using fuel flow to set the power of my 532 instead of the tach. So I began to refer to it quite frequently for small throttle adjustments while in cruise. At least three times I've seen the fuel flow drop to zero and stay there for a minute or so; once during warm-up, once at cruise during the day, and once at cruise on a black, moonless night (a bit disconcerting). It seems clear from all these excellent postings that this instrument is inconsistent from one unit and another, and that perhaps the fault lies mostly in the transducer. A flight instrument with this kind of track record would probably be blackballed. Mike Perkins Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282647#282647 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:00 PM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop Hi Dick=2C I wish we were closer to each other. I have a brand new 72" 3 blade IVO with the ultralight blades hanging on the wall that will end up o n my Kitfox 4 with the 912 once I have the plane done. As long as you are getting performance numbers on props=2C it would be interesting to bolt the IVO on and see how it compares to the other props. Take care=2C Jim Chuk Avids=2C Kitfox 4 Mn PS bummer about the Kiev not doing better From: catz631@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop Well=2C it looks like you guys were right. You just can't get a great deal of performance improvement by switching props. I tried the first test of my Kiev today and it was rather disappointing. Here are some of the results: 1. Warp prop: Take off rpm 5400=2C cruise 88mph @5000 rpm @52 degrees temp 2. Kiev prop: Take off rpm 5400=2Ccruise 82mph @ 5000rpm @ 70 degrees Full throttle reached 5800 rpm (did not note speed) All of this was done at 1200 AGL. The test with the Kiev was done without t he spinner so perhaps that will help the cruise a bit. Further tweaking wit h the prop pitch might give me better results. I had to land as a mighty bi g thunderstorm was approaching. This aircraft is not all that speedy anyway due to the fat tires=2C bush g ear=2C80hp=2Cetc..lots of drag. As soon as the weather gets better in a few days=2C I will test it some mo re. Dick Maddux Fox 4 Milton=2CFl _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:56 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop I love this stuff. I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the thread end of the shank. As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier .787mm at the head end and .786mm at the thread end. I can't explain it nor do I have any inclination to try to. I simply put a digital caliper on a couple of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the smaller bolt is larger and the larger bolt is smaller. Just for fun, I measured the rest of the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged from 7.79 to 7.81 mm. I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they came in between 7.87 and 7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - pretty good quality control it seems. I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are some bolts that I can hold in my hand and mearure. And I guess I'm just too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have should measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them. As I said in my original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in the holes. so I went with them. Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts Warp sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts. I have no way of knowing that after ten years. Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never been to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt in an 8.000 mm hole. Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts? Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "JC Propeller Design" Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop > > > > A 5/16 AN5 is 7,9375 mm, on most bolts they are a bit smaller then that > > an 8 mm bolt is 8.0000 mm and thread pitch is 1.2500 mm/t or fine pitch > thread 1.0000 mm > > AN5 -24 have 24 threads per inch = tread pitch is 1.058 mm > and is rated 125000 psi, that is 87,9 kg/mm2 or 862 MPa That will be a > 9.8 class metric bolt > > Table 10 > MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CARBON STEEL > EXTERNALLY-THREADED METRIC FASTENERS > > Property Class Designation Nominal Size of Product Material and > Treatment Mechanical Requirements Property Class Ident. Marking > Proof Load Stress, MPa Tensile Yield Strength, MPa, Min. Tensile > Ultimate Strength, MPa, Min. Prod. Hardness, Rockwell > Surface, Max. Core > Min. Max. > > 4.6 M5-M100 low or medium carbon steel 225 240 400 -- B67 B95 4.6 > 4.8 M1.6-M16 low or medium carbon steel, fully or partially annealed > 310 340 420 -- B71 B95 4.8 > 5.8 M5-M24 low or medium carbon steel, cold worked 380 420 520 -- B82 > B95 5.8 > 8.8 M16-M72 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 > 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 > A325M Type 1 M16-M36 A325M 8S > 8.8 M16-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 > 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 > A325M Type 2 A325M 8S > A325M Type 3 M16-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched > and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 A325M 8S3 > 9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 > 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 > 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 > 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 > 10.9 M5-M20 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 > 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 > 10.9 M5-M100 medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 > 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 > A490M Type 1 M12-M36 A490M 10S > 10.9 M5-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 > 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 > A490M Type 2 M12-M36 A490M 10S > A490M Type 3 M12-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched > and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 A490M 10S3 > 12.9 M1.6-M100 alloy steel, quenched and tempered 970 1100 1220 30N63 > C38 C44 12.9 > >> >> That's surprising since the nominal sizes are: >> >> 5/16" == 0.3125" >> 8 mm == 0.3150" >> >> Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly >> smaller, not larger. >> >> -- >> Paul A. Franz >> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT >> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP >> Bellevue WA >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:07 PM PST US From: Scott DeMeyer Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge For what it's worth, I have 74 hours on mine and it works great. Never had any problems, so far. Scott --- On Wed, 1/20/10, mikeperkins wrote: From: mikeperkins Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge om> It's a little scary to jump into this hot topic when it almost seems to hav e settle down, but anyway. . . . I've probably got 35 hours on my F210. A pre-installation volume test showed that it was within 5%, as advertised. After some flight testing to determine flow rates at different steady airs peeds, I started using fuel flow to set the power of my 532 instead of the tach. So I began to refer to it quite frequently for small throttle adjustm ents while in cruise. At least three times I've seen the fuel flow drop to zero and stay there fo r a minute or so; once during warm-up, once at cruise during the day, and o nce at cruise on a black, moonless night (a bit disconcerting). It seems clear from all these excellent postings that this instrument is in consistent from one unit and another, and that perhaps the fault lies mostl y in the transducer. A flight instrument with this kind of track record would probably be blackb alled. Mike Perkins Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282647#282647 le, List Admin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.