---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/21/10: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:08 AM - Custom Kitfox Skis that work (dave) 2. 05:02 AM - Re: Kiev prop (fox5flyer) 3. 05:06 AM - Re: Kiev Prop (dave) 4. 06:44 AM - Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge (catz631@aol.com) 5. 08:01 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (Zimmermans) 6. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Patrick Reilly) 7. 09:22 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (Lynn Matteson) 8. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Dave Fisher) 9. 09:33 AM - Re: Kiev prop (Patrick Reilly) 10. 09:42 AM - Re: Kiev prop (Dave Fisher) 11. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Patrick Reilly) 12. 09:45 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (fox5flyer) 13. 09:54 AM - Re: Kiev prop (Patrick Reilly) 14. 10:01 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (Patrick Reilly) 15. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: 582 owners show me some Oil reservoirs (Patrick Reilly) 16. 10:49 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (Lynn Matteson) 17. 10:51 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (Lynn Matteson) 18. 10:54 AM - Oshkosh Skiplane fly-in cancelled (Lynn Matteson) 19. 11:17 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (fox5flyer) 20. 11:18 AM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (fox5flyer) 21. 12:03 PM - Re: 582 owners show me some Oil reservoirs (Tom Jones) 22. 12:11 PM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? (Tom Jones) 23. 12:17 PM - Re: Kiev prop (Lowell Fitt) 24. 12:45 PM - Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge (dave) 25. 01:34 PM - Compression tester (fox5flyer) 26. 01:52 PM - Re: Compression tester (Lynn Matteson) 27. 02:11 PM - Re: Compression tester (Scott DeMeyer) 28. 02:12 PM - Re: Compression tester (fox5flyer) 29. 05:29 PM - Re: Drain Holes in Wings (Noel Loveys) 30. 05:30 PM - Re: Compression tester (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 31. 05:33 PM - Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge (Noel Loveys) 32. 05:35 PM - off topic (kirk hull) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:10 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Custom Kitfox Skis that work From: "dave" I did a quick video before sundown yesterday on these new skis I have to offer. Detailed pictures and video all in one post right here - no log in required to see pictures. http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=167&p=527#p527 Free Classifed ads that work -- I sold a few things off this site lately. In stock now and ship out over night. I have flown my old 8" x 48" in 36 inches of powder snow. They work ok but these I made 12" for extra flotaion. Tailski a real help in soft deep snow as well. I will make custom size as you request. The video was done on a bout 8 " of snow with freezing rain the other day we got a hard crust and cheap skis will fold easy it tough conditions. Dave -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282673#282673 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:08 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop Lowell, probably the main reason that the AN bolt felt tighter might be because the thread pitch between AN and metric is slightly different. Then again, you probably already know that. Deke > > I love this stuff. > > I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as > new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the > thread end of the shank. As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier > .787mm at the head end and .786mm at the thread end. I can't explain it > nor do I have any inclination to try to. I simply put a digital caliper > on a couple of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the > smaller bolt is larger and the larger bolt is smaller. Just for fun, I > measured the rest of the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged > from 7.79 to 7.81 mm. I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they > came in between 7.87 and 7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - > pretty good quality control it seems. > > I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are > some bolts that I can hold in my hand and mearure. And I guess I'm just > too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have should > measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them. As I said in > my original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in > the holes. so I went with them. Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts > Warp sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts. I have no way of > knowing that after ten years. > > Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never been > to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough > time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt in > an 8.000 mm hole. Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. > drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts? > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JC Propeller Design" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop > > >> >> >> >> A 5/16 AN5 is 7,9375 mm, on most bolts they are a bit smaller then that >> >> an 8 mm bolt is 8.0000 mm and thread pitch is 1.2500 mm/t or fine pitch >> thread 1.0000 mm >> >> AN5 -24 have 24 threads per inch = tread pitch is 1.058 mm >> and is rated 125000 psi, that is 87,9 kg/mm2 or 862 MPa That will be a >> 9.8 class metric bolt >> >> Table 10 >> MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CARBON STEEL >> EXTERNALLY-THREADED METRIC FASTENERS >> >> Property Class Designation Nominal Size of Product Material and >> Treatment Mechanical Requirements Property Class Ident. Marking >> Proof Load Stress, MPa Tensile Yield Strength, MPa, Min. Tensile >> Ultimate Strength, MPa, Min. Prod. Hardness, Rockwell >> Surface, Max. Core >> Min. Max. >> >> 4.6 M5-M100 low or medium carbon steel 225 240 400 -- B67 B95 4.6 >> 4.8 M1.6-M16 low or medium carbon steel, fully or partially annealed >> 310 340 420 -- B71 B95 4.8 >> 5.8 M5-M24 low or medium carbon steel, cold worked 380 420 520 -- >> B82 B95 5.8 >> 8.8 M16-M72 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 >> 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 >> A325M Type 1 M16-M36 A325M 8S >> 8.8 M16-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 >> 830 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 >> A325M Type 2 A325M 8S >> A325M Type 3 M16-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched >> and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 A325M 8S3 >> 9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 >> 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 >> 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 >> 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 >> 10.9 M5-M20 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 >> 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >> 10.9 M5-M100 medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 830 >> 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >> A490M Type 1 M12-M36 A490M 10S >> 10.9 M5-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 >> 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >> A490M Type 2 M12-M36 A490M 10S >> A490M Type 3 M12-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched >> and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 A490M 10S3 >> 12.9 M1.6-M100 alloy steel, quenched and tempered 970 1100 1220 >> 30N63 C38 C44 12.9 >> >>> >>> That's surprising since the nominal sizes are: >>> >>> 5/16" == 0.3125" >>> 8 mm == 0.3150" >>> >>> Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly >>> smaller, not larger. >>> >>> -- >>> Paul A. Franz >>> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT >>> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP >>> Bellevue WA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:33 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kiev Prop From: "dave" Dick, That is a sharp looking prop for sure. The numbers really suck though. I hope it gets better. I find the 912 works well with IVO UL or medium. I am really surprised of you numbers though, You should be well over 100 mph in cruise at 5000rpm -- morel like 110 mph.. My little 582 cruise on skis yesterday was 91 mph @ 5900 rpm . I just added more Kitfox videos today flying http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer Get us some numbers now at 100 mph plus. Dick Maddux wrote: > Well, it looks like you guys were right. You just can't get a great deal of performance improvement by switching props. I tried the first test of my Kiev today and it was rather disappointing. Here are some of the results: > 1. Warp prop: > Take off rpm 5400, cruise 88mph @5000 rpm @52 degrees temp > 2. Kiev prop: > Take off rpm 5400,cruise 82mph @ 5000rpm @ 70 degrees > Full throttle reached 5800 rpm (did not note speed) > > All of this was done at 1200 AGL. The test with the Kiev was done without the spinner so perhaps that will help the cruise a bit. Further tweaking with the prop pitch might give me better results. I had to land as a mighty big thunderstorm was approaching. > This aircraft is not all that speedy anyway due to the fat tires, bush gear,80hp,etc..lots of drag. > As soon as the weather gets better in a few days, I will test it some more. Dick Maddux > Fox 4 > Milton,Fl -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282681#282681 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:10 AM PST US From: catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge > A flight instrument with this kind of track record would probably be blackballed. Thanks Mike ! , I agree ! Dick Maddux Milton, Fl ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:15 AM PST US From: "Zimmermans" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings My manual for my 1995 Series 5 shows a 3/16 inch drain hole 3/4 of an inch in from the trailing edge in line with the hinge. My factory assembled flapperons do not have the holes. I plan on putting them in. Jim Series 5 0-200 21D MN. ----- Original Message ----- From: cjswa To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Don, I have a Model 4 and I installed drain holes. In the wing construction section of my builder's manual, when fabricating the trailing edge it says "Cut the notch (in the trailing edge lip) for the cap strip 1/8 inch wider on the outboard side of each rib to provide a drain opening for the area behind the lip." You later burn the drain holes through the fabric in this area. I'm not sure about the wing construction of the Model 5, but maybe there is also something there in your manual. (I did not see anything about drain holes in the covering section of the builder's manual.) But, the PolyFiber manual also calls for drain holes in each bay of wings. Bill Anderson Model IV - 1050 Brentwood, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Hudgeon To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:05 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? G`day All Could anyone tell me if they have drain holes near the trailing edge of their wings? I have a Model 5 Vixen and there are no drains. I could not find reference to them in the builders manual. Friends with Cubs and TC`s are telling me to put in drains. The aircraft is stored either in garage or hanger. Any recommendations? Thanks Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/19/10 01:34:00 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? From: Patrick Reilly Lynn, Thanks for info.That makes sense, opposite the hinge where the water would enter. I will drill them today. do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > I'll just copy here what I posted a few days earlier: > > they say a 3/16" hole "in the bottom skin aft of each hinge, about 3/4" > ahead of the trailing edge for a moisture drain hole." I think I was > thinking of the drain holes in the wing fabric. So the manual must not think > that's there's an appreciable amount of moisture collecting inside the > individual bays of the flaperon. Or they have a channel that would allow for > the flow of moisture between the bays/cavities. > > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs > Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying (and learning) > > > On Jan 20, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > > Lynn, My plane does not have drain holes in the flaperons. Seeing the >> openings at the bearings they could collect a significant amount of water. >> How many and where are the drain holes placed in the flaperons. My builders >> manual is at the hangar. >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:08 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Thinking like a (dreaded) lawyer here, maybe the reason for the lack of holes in the flaperon is that as delivered, this is now an "incomplete task", and when the homebuilder completes the task of drilling the holes per the instructions...if there are any...he or she has now completed the task of "building" the flaperon, and can now honestly(?) say that they were the one who completed that task, on the road to the 51% rule. Remember that the 51% rule only compares tasks, not magnitude of tasks....a fuselage welded and painted from the factory equals a rudder pedal bracket built at home in the eyes of the governing body. At least it did when I built my plane........God I hate lawyers! Not you Marco....: ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Zimmermans wrote: > My manual for my 1995 Series 5 shows a 3/16 inch drain hole 3/4 of > an inch in from the trailing edge in line with the hinge. My > factory assembled flapperons do not have the holes. I plan on > putting them in. > Jim Series 5 0-200 21D MN. > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:21 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? I would do more than just at the hinges. The flapperons tilt inboad on the plane with wings folder out. Water can travel past the foam ribs as they are not watertight between each other. Best thing to do it fill the flapperon and see where it collects. You will hear it sloshing around and drill according to where it collects. Would that not be a surprise for you to go flying and find a heavy flapperon huh ? I had a wet flapperon freeze up on me a few weeks ago on a test flight. Really sucked to have no roll control for a bit until I broke it free. Woulda been fun to land with just rudder. For the record on your walkaround you should be checking all drain holes for water anyhow and restrictions. Justd casue you gota hole there does not mean you don't have water collected there. I once had afew gallons in a c 185 in the tail collected there , the drain holes were all clogged up woth bird nests etc. Dave Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? Lynn, Thanks for info.That makes sense, opposite the hinge where the water would enter. I will drill them today. do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: I'll just copy here what I posted a few days earlier: they say a 3/16" hole "in the bottom skin aft of each hinge, about 3/4" ahead of the trailing edge for a moisture drain hole." I think I was thinking of the drain holes in the wing fabric. So the manual must not think that's there's an appreciable amount of moisture collecting inside the individual bays of the flaperon. Or they have a channel that would allow for the flow of moisture between the bays/cavities. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) On Jan 20, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: Lynn, My plane does not have drain holes in the flaperons. Seeing the openings at the bearings they could collect a significant amount of water. How many and where are the drain holes placed in the flaperons. My builders manual is at the hangar. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL ubscription, www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop From: Patrick Reilly Lowell, you say you used 5/16" bolts in the 8mm bolt holes. I originally bought 5/16 " bolts for my prop not thinking. I tried to put one in and remembered immediately Rotax is a meteric engine. I bought 8mm bolts from Fastenal. I didn't try to force the 5/16 " bolt in. I figured the # of threads, and pitch woukd be different enough that and it would strip. Are you saying the 8mm and 5/16" threads are close enough that you can use a 5/16" bolt in an 8mm tapped hole and just get a little more interference without stripping threads? Pa t Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > I love this stuff. > > I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as > new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the thread > end of the shank. As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier .787mm > at the head end and .786mm at the thread end. I can't explain it nor do I > have any inclination to try to. I simply put a digital caliper on a couple > of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the smaller bolt is > larger and the larger bolt is smaller. Just for fun, I measured the rest of > the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged from 7.79 to 7.81 mm. > I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they came in between 7.87 and > 7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - pretty good quality control > it seems. > > I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are > some bolts that I can hold in my hand and mearure. And I guess I'm just > too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have should > measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them. As I said in my > original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in the > holes. so I went with them. Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts Warp > sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts. I have no way of knowing > that after ten years. > > Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never been > to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough > time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt in > an 8.000 mm hole. Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. > drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts? > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- From: "JC Propeller Design" < > propellerdesign@tele2.se> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop > > >> propellerdesign@tele2.se> >> >> >> A 5/16 AN5 is 7,9375 mm, on most bolts they are a bit smaller then that >> >> an 8 mm bolt is 8.0000 mm and thread pitch is 1.2500 mm/t or fine pitch >> thread 1.0000 mm >> >> AN5 -24 have 24 threads per inch = tread pitch is 1.058 mm >> and is rated 125000 psi, that is 87,9 kg/mm2 or 862 MPa That will be a 9.8 >> class metric bolt >> >> Table 10 >> MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CARBON STEEL >> EXTERNALLY-THREADED METRIC FASTENERS >> >> Property Class Designation Nominal Size of Product Material and >> Treatment Mechanical Requirements Property Class Ident. Marking >> Proof Load Stress, MPa Tensile Yield Strength, MPa, Min. Tensile >> Ultimate Strength, MPa, Min. Prod. Hardness, Rockwell >> Surface, Max. Core >> Min. Max. >> >> 4.6 M5-M100 low or medium carbon steel 225 240 400 -- B67 B95 4.6 >> 4.8 M1.6-M16 low or medium carbon steel, fully or partially annealed >> 310 340 420 -- B71 B95 4.8 >> 5.8 M5-M24 low or medium carbon steel, cold worked 380 420 520 -- B82 >> B95 5.8 >> 8.8 M16-M72 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 >> 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 >> A325M Type 1 M16-M36 A325M 8S >> 8.8 M16-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 >> 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 >> A325M Type 2 A325M 8S >> A325M Type 3 M16-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched >> and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 A325M 8S3 >> 9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 >> 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 >> 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 >> 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 >> 10.9 M5-M20 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 >> 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >> 10.9 M5-M100 medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 >> 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >> A490M Type 1 M12-M36 A490M 10S >> 10.9 M5-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 >> 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >> A490M Type 2 M12-M36 A490M 10S >> A490M Type 3 M12-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched >> and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 A490M 10S3 >> 12.9 M1.6-M100 alloy steel, quenched and tempered 970 1100 1220 30N63 >> C38 C44 12.9 >> >> >>> That's surprising since the nominal sizes are: >>> >>> 5/16" == 0.3125" >>> 8 mm == 0.3150" >>> >>> Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly >>> smaller, not larger. >>> >>> -- >>> Paul A. Franz >>> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT >>> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP >>> Bellevue WA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:55 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop PAt, On your 582 the B or C or E box will have 2 sets of holes one is 1/4 " and early ones were tapped to 1/4 UNF other is a M8 and is tapped on all gear box hubs. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop Lowell, you say you used 5/16" bolts in the 8mm bolt holes. I originally bought 5/16 " bolts for my prop not thinking. I tried to put one in and remembered immediately Rotax is a meteric engine. I bought 8mm bolts from Fastenal. I didn't try to force the 5/16 " bolt in. I figured the # of threads, and pitch woukd be different enough that and it would strip. Are you saying the 8mm and 5/16" threads are close enough that you can use a 5/16" bolt in an 8mm tapped hole and just get a little more interference without stripping threads? Pa t Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: I love this stuff. I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the thread end of the shank. As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier .787mm at the head end and .786mm at the thread end. I can't explain it nor do I have any inclination to try to. I simply put a digital caliper on a couple of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the smaller bolt is larger and the larger bolt is smaller. Just for fun, I measured the rest of the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged from 7.79 to 7.81 mm. I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they came in between 7.87 and 7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - pretty good quality control it seems. I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are some bolts that I can hold in my hand and mearure. And I guess I'm just too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have should measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them. As I said in my original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in the holes. so I went with them. Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts Warp sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts. I have no way of knowing that after ten years. Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never been to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt in an 8.000 mm hole. Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts? Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "JC Propeller Design" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop A 5/16 AN5 is 7,9375 mm, on most bolts they are a bit smaller then that an 8 mm bolt is 8.0000 mm and thread pitch is 1.2500 mm/t or fine pitch thread 1.0000 mm AN5 -24 have 24 threads per inch = tread pitch is 1.058 mm and is rated 125000 psi, that is 87,9 kg/mm2 or 862 MPa That will be a 9.8 class metric bolt Table 10 MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CARBON STEEL EXTERNALLY-THREADED METRIC FASTENERS Property Class Designation Nominal Size of Product Material and Treatment Mechanical Requirements Property Class Ident. Marking Proof Load Stress, MPa Tensile Yield Strength, MPa, Min. Tensile Ultimate Strength, MPa, Min. Prod. Hardness, Rockwell Surface, Max. Core Min. Max. 4.6 M5-M100 low or medium carbon steel 225 240 400 -- B67 B95 4.6 4.8 M1.6-M16 low or medium carbon steel, fully or partially annealed 310 340 420 -- B71 B95 4.8 5.8 M5-M24 low or medium carbon steel, cold worked 380 420 520 -- B82 B95 5.8 8.8 M16-M72 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 A325M Type 1 M16-M36 A325M 8S 8.8 M16-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 A325M Type 2 A325M 8S A325M Type 3 M16-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 A325M 8S3 9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 10.9 M5-M20 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 10.9 M5-M100 medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 A490M Type 1 M12-M36 A490M 10S 10.9 M5-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 A490M Type 2 M12-M36 A490M 10S A490M Type 3 M12-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 A490M 10S3 12.9 M1.6-M100 alloy steel, quenched and tempered 970 1100 1220 30N63 C38 C44 12.9 That's surprising since the nominal sizes are: 5/16" == 0.3125" 8 mm == 0.3150" Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly smaller, not larger. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. , www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? From: Patrick Reilly Dave, OK. thanks for opinion. I will drill a few extra holes but will probably skip the filling with water. I did drill 3 drain holes in the Lowell Fitt trim tab on the elevator. It had been out in a very light rain and had collected some water. Lowell you might want to put out an AD to drill drain holes in that tab. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Dave Fisher wrote: > I would do more than just at the hinges. The flapperons tilt inboad on > the plane with wings folder out. Water can travel past the foam ribs as they > are not watertight between each other. > > Best thing to do it fill the flapperon and see where it collects. You will > hear it sloshing around and drill according to where it collects. Would > that not be a surprise for you to go flying and find a heavy flapperon huh > ? > > I had a wet flapperon freeze up on me a few weeks ago on a test flight. > Really sucked to have no roll control for a bit until I broke it free. > Woulda been fun to land with just rudder. > > For the record on your walkaround you should be checking all drain holes > for water anyhow and restrictions. Justd casue you gota hole there does not > mean you don't have water collected there. I once had afew gallons in a c > 185 in the tail collected there , the drain holes were all clogged up woth > bird nests etc. > > Dave > > Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Patrick Reilly > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:08 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? > > Lynn, Thanks for info.That makes sense, opposite the hinge where the water > would enter. I will drill them today. > do not archive > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > >> >> I'll just copy here what I posted a few days earlier: >> >> they say a 3/16" hole "in the bottom skin aft of each hinge, about 3/4" >> ahead of the trailing edge for a moisture drain hole." I think I was >> thinking of the drain holes in the wing fabric. So the manual must not think >> that's there's an appreciable amount of moisture collecting inside the >> individual bays of the flaperon. Or they have a channel that would allow for >> the flow of moisture between the bays/cavities. >> >> >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs >> Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go >> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop >> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >> Rotec TBI-40 injection >> Status: flying (and learning) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 20, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: >> >> Lynn, My plane does not have drain holes in the flaperons. Seeing the >>> openings at the bearings they could collect a significant amount of water. >>> How many and where are the drain holes placed in the flaperons. My builders >>> manual is at the hangar. >>> >>> Pat Reilly >>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >>> Rockford, IL >>> >>> >> ubscription, >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:09 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Good point, Lynn. Hadn't thought of it that way. How's the new intake manifold working for you? Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings > > Thinking like a (dreaded) lawyer here, maybe the reason for the lack > of holes in the flaperon is that as delivered, this is now an > "incomplete task", and when the homebuilder completes the task of > drilling the holes per the instructions...if there are any...he or > she has now completed the task of "building" the flaperon, and can > now honestly(?) say that they were the one who completed that task, > on the road to the 51% rule. Remember that the 51% rule only compares > tasks, not magnitude of tasks....a fuselage welded and painted from > the factory equals a rudder pedal bracket built at home in the eyes > of the governing body. At least it did when I built my > plane........God I hate lawyers! Not you Marco....: ) > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs > Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying (and learning) > > > On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Zimmermans wrote: > >> My manual for my 1995 Series 5 shows a 3/16 inch drain hole 3/4 of >> an inch in from the trailing edge in line with the hinge. My >> factory assembled flapperons do not have the holes. I plan on >> putting them in. >> Jim Series 5 0-200 21D MN. >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop From: Patrick Reilly Dave thanks for the info. I won't need to use the other ring of holes on my C box flange. If I ever do, I will remember that one is metric and the other SAE. I would have thought the 1/4" one was also metric. Do not archive Pat Reilly On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Dave Fisher wrote: > PAt, > > On your 582 the B or C or E box will have 2 sets of holes > > one is 1/4 " and early ones were tapped to 1/4 UNF > other is a M8 and is tapped on all gear box hubs. > > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Patrick Reilly > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:32 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop > > Lowell, you say you used 5/16" bolts in the 8mm bolt holes. I originally > bought 5/16 " bolts for my prop not thinking. I tried to put one in and > remembered immediately Rotax is a meteric engine. I bought 8mm bolts from > Fastenal. I didn't try to force the 5/16 " bolt in. I figured the # of > threads, and pitch woukd be different enough that and it would strip. Are > you saying the 8mm and 5/16" threads are close enough that you can use a > 5/16" bolt in an 8mm tapped hole and just get a little more interference > without stripping threads? > > Pa t Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > >> >> I love this stuff. >> >> I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as >> new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the thread >> end of the shank. As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier .787mm >> at the head end and .786mm at the thread end. I can't explain it nor do I >> have any inclination to try to. I simply put a digital caliper on a couple >> of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the smaller bolt is >> larger and the larger bolt is smaller. Just for fun, I measured the rest of >> the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged from 7.79 to 7.81 mm. >> I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they came in between 7.87 and >> 7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - pretty good quality control >> it seems. >> >> I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are >> some bolts that I can hold in my hand and mearure. And I guess I'm just >> too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have should >> measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them. As I said in my >> original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in the >> holes. so I went with them. Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts Warp >> sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts. I have no way of knowing >> that after ten years. >> >> Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never been >> to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough >> time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt in >> an 8.000 mm hole. Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. >> drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts? >> >> Lowell >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JC Propeller Design" < >> propellerdesign@tele2.se> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:06 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop >> >> >>> propellerdesign@tele2.se> >>> >>> >>> A 5/16 AN5 is 7,9375 mm, on most bolts they are a bit smaller then that >>> >>> an 8 mm bolt is 8.0000 mm and thread pitch is 1.2500 mm/t or fine pitch >>> thread 1.0000 mm >>> >>> AN5 -24 have 24 threads per inch = tread pitch is 1.058 mm >>> and is rated 125000 psi, that is 87,9 kg/mm2 or 862 MPa That will be a >>> 9.8 class metric bolt >>> >>> Table 10 >>> MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CARBON STEEL >>> EXTERNALLY-THREADED METRIC FASTENERS >>> >>> Property Class Designation Nominal Size of Product Material and >>> Treatment Mechanical Requirements Property Class Ident. Marking >>> Proof Load Stress, MPa Tensile Yield Strength, MPa, Min. Tensile >>> Ultimate Strength, MPa, Min. Prod. Hardness, Rockwell >>> Surface, Max. Core >>> Min. Max. >>> >>> 4.6 M5-M100 low or medium carbon steel 225 240 400 -- B67 B95 4.6 >>> 4.8 M1.6-M16 low or medium carbon steel, fully or partially annealed >>> 310 340 420 -- B71 B95 4.8 >>> 5.8 M5-M24 low or medium carbon steel, cold worked 380 420 520 -- B82 >>> B95 5.8 >>> 8.8 M16-M72 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 >>> 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 >>> A325M Type 1 M16-M36 A325M 8S >>> 8.8 M16-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 >>> 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 >>> A325M Type 2 A325M 8S >>> A325M Type 3 M16-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched >>> and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 A325M 8S3 >>> 9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 >>> 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 >>> 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 >>> 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 >>> 10.9 M5-M20 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 >>> 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >>> 10.9 M5-M100 medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 >>> 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >>> A490M Type 1 M12-M36 A490M 10S >>> 10.9 M5-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 >>> 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >>> A490M Type 2 M12-M36 A490M 10S >>> A490M Type 3 M12-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched >>> and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 A490M 10S3 >>> 12.9 M1.6-M100 alloy steel, quenched and tempered 970 1100 1220 30N63 >>> C38 C44 12.9 >>> >>> >>>> That's surprising since the nominal sizes are: >>>> >>>> 5/16" == 0.3125" >>>> 8 mm == 0.3150" >>>> >>>> Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly >>>> smaller, not larger. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Paul A. Franz >>>> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT >>>> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP >>>> Bellevue WA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> , >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings From: Patrick Reilly Lynn, My father had an old flight instructor that actually refused to give flying lessons to lawyers and doctors because he had a couple of them as students and they already knew everything. I didn't know Marco was a lawyer. Gee, he seems like a nice enough guy? Maybe he is a patent lawyer or something. What kind of a lawyer are you Marco? do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:44 AM, fox5flyer wrote: > > Good point, Lynn. Hadn't thought of it that way. > How's the new intake manifold working for you? > Deke Morisse > Mikado Michigan > S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT > "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara > Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." > -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:17 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings > > >> >> Thinking like a (dreaded) lawyer here, maybe the reason for the lack of >> holes in the flaperon is that as delivered, this is now an "incomplete >> task", and when the homebuilder completes the task of drilling the holes >> per the instructions...if there are any...he or she has now completed the >> task of "building" the flaperon, and can now honestly(?) say that they were >> the one who completed that task, on the road to the 51% rule. Remember that >> the 51% rule only compares tasks, not magnitude of tasks....a fuselage >> welded and painted from the factory equals a rudder pedal bracket built at >> home in the eyes of the governing body. At least it did when I built my >> plane........God I hate lawyers! Not you Marco....: ) >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs >> Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go >> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop >> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >> Rotec TBI-40 injection >> Status: flying (and learning) >> >> >> On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Zimmermans wrote: >> >> My manual for my 1995 Series 5 shows a 3/16 inch drain hole 3/4 of an >>> inch in from the trailing edge in line with the hinge. My factory assembled >>> flapperons do not have the holes. I plan on putting them in. >>> Jim Series 5 0-200 21D MN. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 owners show me some Oil reservoirs From: Patrick Reilly Tom, My rectangular tank has the outlet in the middle of the bottom. I mounted my tank slightly on an angle. I did so because that is where the mounting bolts would fit through the firewall, be accessible and miss the frame.. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Tom Jones wrote: > > Here's an update on what I did. I also have a couple more questions about > mounting the oil tank. My builder's manual is for a 503 and does not cover > oil tanks. > > Attached are three photos. The tank is from a Ski Doo. the price was > right and it came with all the fittings and a low level warning float and > switch. Notice that there is a "Sump" that the bottom fitting sits in. > > I notice on the photos I have seen of the rectangular tanks on Kitfoxes > that they are mounted at an angle. I figured this was to make one bottom > corner a low point for the fitting to prevent unporting. So, I mounted my > tank at an angle with the fitting being on the low bottom corner. > > I looked at those photos again and see that the one Dave posted a link to > in another thread > http://www.rotaxaircraft.com/forum/download/file.php?id=210&mode=viewshows the fitting is on the high bottom corner not the low one. > > Can someone with a manual that covers this take a look and let me know what > it says about this, if anything. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282584#282584 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/end_view_of_tank_577.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_parts_139.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_mounted_222.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:58 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Hi Deke- Got snow? The intake is working great, but in building it, I increased the plenum size, and that apparently had the effect of making it a higher rpm manifold. I was flying yesterday and at about 2850-2880 rpm, I had an EGT spread of as low as 12 degrees F apart, and the CHT's were within about 19 F. I had them that close with the original Jabiru intake manifold, but the rpm was down around 2750. Of course, cold weather set in, and that might have monkeyed up the works. I wasn't real happy with the manifold at first, but I've gotten used to using a higher rpm, and the fuel usage of 3.6-3.9 is pretty good at 2880 rpm, too. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) On Jan 21, 2010, at 12:44 PM, fox5flyer wrote: > > > Good point, Lynn. Hadn't thought of it that way. > How's the new intake manifold working for you? > Deke Morisse > Mikado Michigan > S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:35 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Marco is too nice a guy to be a lawyer...he's gotta be pullin' our legs. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) do not archive On Jan 21, 2010, at 1:00 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > Lynn, My father had an old flight instructor that actually refused > to give flying lessons to lawyers and doctors because he had a > couple of them as students and they already knew everything. I > didn't know Marco was a lawyer. Gee, he seems like a nice enough > guy? Maybe he is a patent lawyer or something. What kind of a > lawyer are you Marco? > do not archive > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:44 AM, fox5flyer > wrote: > > > Good point, Lynn. Hadn't thought of it that way. > How's the new intake manifold working for you? > Deke Morisse > Mikado Michigan > S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT > "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara > Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." > -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:17 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings > > > > Thinking like a (dreaded) lawyer here, maybe the reason for the > lack of holes in the flaperon is that as delivered, this is now > an "incomplete task", and when the homebuilder completes the task > of drilling the holes per the instructions...if there are any...he > or she has now completed the task of "building" the flaperon, and > can now honestly(?) say that they were the one who completed that > task, on the road to the 51% rule. Remember that the 51% rule only > compares tasks, not magnitude of tasks....a fuselage welded and > painted from the factory equals a rudder pedal bracket built at > home in the eyes of the governing body. At least it did when I > built my plane........God I hate lawyers! Not you Marco....: ) > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs > Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying (and learning) > > > On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Zimmermans wrote: > > My manual for my 1995 Series 5 shows a 3/16 inch drain hole 3/4 of > an inch in from the trailing edge in line with the hinge. My > factory assembled flapperons do not have the holes. I plan on > putting them in. > Jim Series 5 0-200 21D MN. > > > s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ==== > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:43 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh Skiplane fly-in cancelled I just got word that Oshkosh has cancelled the annual Skiplane fly-in for this year....bad weather predicted. So all you Kitfoxers out there that were planning on it...don't. I was, but now am not. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:54 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Sounds to me like it ain't broke! Good job. The cold weather has quite an effect, especially when compared to summer time. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings > > Hi Deke- > Got snow? > > The intake is working great, but in building it, I increased the plenum > size, and that apparently had the effect of making it a higher rpm > manifold. I was flying yesterday and at about 2850-2880 rpm, I had an EGT > spread of as low as 12 degrees F apart, and the CHT's were within about > 19 F. I had them that close with the original Jabiru intake manifold, > but the rpm was down around 2750. Of course, cold weather set in, and > that might have monkeyed up the works. > I wasn't real happy with the manifold at first, but I've gotten used to > using a higher rpm, and the fuel usage of 3.6-3.9 is pretty good at 2880 > rpm, too. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs > Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying (and learning) > > > On Jan 21, 2010, at 12:44 PM, fox5flyer wrote: > >> >> Good point, Lynn. Hadn't thought of it that way. >> How's the new intake manifold working for you? >> Deke Morisse >> Mikado Michigan >> S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:06 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings I heard they all are required to take acting classes to get though the Bar. :-) D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings > > Marco is too nice a guy to be a lawyer...he's gotta be pullin' our legs. > : ) > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs > Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying (and learning) > do not archive > > > On Jan 21, 2010, at 1:00 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > >> Lynn, My father had an old flight instructor that actually refused to >> give flying lessons to lawyers and doctors because he had a couple of >> them as students and they already knew everything. I didn't know Marco >> was a lawyer. Gee, he seems like a nice enough guy? Maybe he is a patent >> lawyer or something. What kind of a lawyer are you Marco? >> do not archive >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL >> >> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:44 AM, fox5flyer >> wrote: >> >> Good point, Lynn. Hadn't thought of it that way. >> How's the new intake manifold working for you? >> Deke Morisse >> Mikado Michigan >> S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT >> "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara >> Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." >> -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:17 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings >> >> >> >> Thinking like a (dreaded) lawyer here, maybe the reason for the lack of >> holes in the flaperon is that as delivered, this is now an "incomplete >> task", and when the homebuilder completes the task of drilling the >> holes per the instructions...if there are any...he or she has now >> completed the task of "building" the flaperon, and can now honestly(?) >> say that they were the one who completed that task, on the road to the >> 51% rule. Remember that the 51% rule only compares tasks, not magnitude >> of tasks....a fuselage welded and painted from the factory equals a >> rudder pedal bracket built at home in the eyes of the governing body. >> At least it did when I built my plane........God I hate lawyers! >> Not you Marco....: ) >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs >> Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go >> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop >> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >> Rotec TBI-40 injection >> Status: flying (and learning) >> >> >> On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Zimmermans wrote: >> >> My manual for my 1995 Series 5 shows a 3/16 inch drain hole 3/4 of an >> inch in from the trailing edge in line with the hinge. My factory >> assembled flapperons do not have the holes. I plan on putting them in. >> Jim Series 5 0-200 21D MN. >> >> >> >> >> >> s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http:// >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> >> www.matronics.com/contribution _- >> =========================================================== > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:13 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 owners show me some Oil reservoirs From: "Tom Jones" > Tom, My rectangular tank has the outlet in the middle of the bottom. I mounted my tank slightly on an angle. I did so because that is wherethe mountingbolts would fit through the firewall, be accessible and miss the frame.. > > Pat Reilly Thanks pat. I think I will redo mine so it sits level. I got to thinking about the outlet unporting and realized the oil will stay put across the tank if I fly coordinated anyhow. Besides, the sump where the outlet is will hold four ounces, if half spills out of that I still have about 10 minutes worth of oil over the outlet. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282768#282768 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:31 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Flaperons? From: "Tom Jones" I guess I did it different from everyone else. I drilled three holes in each flaperon hinge bay so if it is on a slope when it rains they will still drain. Use a wire to measure from the hinge opening the distance to the rib and drill a hole right next to it. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282770#282770 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:02 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop Hi Pat, I just talked to Dick Maddox on the phone and I guess there are some differences in prop flanges on the Rotax engines. My Prop flange doesn't have threaded holes nor did my first R-912. There are essentially three hole patterns, the 8 mm inner patern then progressively larger holes presumably for the bushed bolts Dick mentioned on his original Warp prop. To clarify, I was supplied with 9 mm bolts with castle nuts for the original installation. These were for a slip fit through the prop hub and engine flange with nut fasteners. I found that these bolts were a bit short so shopped for longer bolts. I tried some 5/16" bolts I had and found that they were a bit tighter in the through holes and used them. The threads were not an issue except between bolt and nut. I too find it curious that the larger bolts have a smaller diameter than the smaller bolts, but a simple digital measurement with bolts on hand re-conirmed this. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Reilly" Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop > Lowell, you say you used 5/16" bolts in the 8mm bolt holes. I originally > bought 5/16 " bolts for my prop not thinking. I tried to put one in and > remembered immediately Rotax is a meteric engine. I bought 8mm bolts from > Fastenal. I didn't try to force the 5/16 " bolt in. I figured the # of > threads, and pitch woukd be different enough that and it would strip. Are > you saying the 8mm and 5/16" threads are close enough that you can use a > 5/16" bolt in an 8mm tapped hole and just get a little more interference > without stripping threads? > > Pa t Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Lowell Fitt > wrote: > >> >> I love this stuff. >> >> I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as >> new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the >> thread >> end of the shank. As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier >> .787mm >> at the head end and .786mm at the thread end. I can't explain it nor do >> I >> have any inclination to try to. I simply put a digital caliper on a >> couple >> of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the smaller bolt >> is >> larger and the larger bolt is smaller. Just for fun, I measured the rest >> of >> the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged from 7.79 to 7.81 >> mm. >> I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they came in between 7.87 >> and >> 7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - pretty good quality >> control >> it seems. >> >> I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are >> some bolts that I can hold in my hand and mearure. And I guess I'm just >> too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have >> should >> measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them. As I said in >> my >> original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in the >> holes. so I went with them. Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts >> Warp >> sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts. I have no way of knowing >> that after ten years. >> >> Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never >> been >> to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough >> time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt >> in >> an 8.000 mm hole. Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. >> drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts? >> >> Lowell >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JC Propeller Design" < >> propellerdesign@tele2.se> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:06 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev prop >> >> >>> propellerdesign@tele2.se> >>> >>> >>> A 5/16 AN5 is 7,9375 mm, on most bolts they are a bit smaller then that >>> >>> an 8 mm bolt is 8.0000 mm and thread pitch is 1.2500 mm/t or fine pitch >>> thread 1.0000 mm >>> >>> AN5 -24 have 24 threads per inch = tread pitch is 1.058 mm >>> and is rated 125000 psi, that is 87,9 kg/mm2 or 862 MPa That will be a >>> 9.8 >>> class metric bolt >>> >>> Table 10 >>> MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CARBON STEEL >>> EXTERNALLY-THREADED METRIC FASTENERS >>> >>> Property Class Designation Nominal Size of Product Material and >>> Treatment Mechanical Requirements Property Class Ident. Marking >>> Proof Load Stress, MPa Tensile Yield Strength, MPa, Min. Tensile >>> Ultimate Strength, MPa, Min. Prod. Hardness, Rockwell >>> Surface, Max. Core >>> Min. Max. >>> >>> 4.6 M5-M100 low or medium carbon steel 225 240 400 -- B67 B95 4.6 >>> 4.8 M1.6-M16 low or medium carbon steel, fully or partially annealed >>> 310 340 420 -- B71 B95 4.8 >>> 5.8 M5-M24 low or medium carbon steel, cold worked 380 420 520 -- >>> B82 >>> B95 5.8 >>> 8.8 M16-M72 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 >>> 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 >>> A325M Type 1 M16-M36 A325M 8S >>> 8.8 M16-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 >>> 830 >>> 30N56 C23 C34 8.8 >>> A325M Type 2 A325M 8S >>> A325M Type 3 M16-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched >>> and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 A325M 8S3 >>> 9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 >>> 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 >>> 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 >>> 900 >>> 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 >>> 10.9 M5-M20 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 >>> 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >>> 10.9 M5-M100 medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 830 >>> 940 >>> 1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >>> A490M Type 1 M12-M36 A490M 10S >>> 10.9 M5-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 >>> 1040 >>> 30N59 C33 C39 10.9 >>> A490M Type 2 M12-M36 A490M 10S >>> A490M Type 3 M12-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched >>> and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 A490M 10S3 >>> 12.9 M1.6-M100 alloy steel, quenched and tempered 970 1100 1220 >>> 30N63 >>> C38 C44 12.9 >>> >>> >>>> That's surprising since the nominal sizes are: >>>> >>>> 5/16" == 0.3125" >>>> 8 mm == 0.3150" >>>> >>>> Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly >>>> smaller, not larger. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Paul A. Franz >>>> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT >>>> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP >>>> Bellevue WA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:58 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge From: "dave" Dick, I just in from flying , before I took off I saw something under the dash that look askew. Was the plug from the Navman hanging there LOL plugged it back together went flying............. it works LoL I guess you never did jinx it. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282773#282773 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:46 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Compression tester http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=94190& ?utm_source=internet_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0410B&utm_ content=v2&r=7598_70903 Just in case any of you are tired of borrowing a leak down tester for your compression tests, check this one from Harbor Freight. Deke ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:38 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Compression tester Deke- I've thought about those testers for a long time, and wondered if they have the .040" master orifice included. As I understand it, a master orifice of that size is required for pistons of under 5" diameter, which would include most American cars, and probably most small airplane engines. Is anybody up to speed on this topic? If those testers are as good as some of the stuff that I've got from Harbor Freight, that is an excellent buy. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) do not archive On Jan 21, 2010, at 4:33 PM, fox5flyer wrote: > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf? > itemnumber=94190&? > utm_source=internet_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0410B&utm_cont > ent=v2&r=7598_70903 > > Just in case any of you are tired of borrowing a leak down tester > for your compression tests, check this one from Harbor Freight. > Deke > > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:52 PM PST US From: Scott DeMeyer Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Compression tester Funny you mention this as I just purchased this last night, and then broke it at first use! The directions say to plug into air compressor, then plug into spark plug hole, then adjust the regulator until the leak gauge gets t o zero. This is incorrect as you need to adjust the leak down gauge to zero before connecting to spark plug hole. Mine broke because I cranked the input pressure to 87psi, expecting the lea k down gauge to be the same. It's not. the leak down gauge is only 15 psi m ax. If you crank the regulator past 20psi, the leak down needle will break, as mine did. Scott --- On Thu, 1/21/10, fox5flyer wrote: From: fox5flyer Subject: Kitfox-List: Compression tester =0A=0A =0A =0A=0A-=0Ahttp://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.ta f?itemnumber=94190&?utm_source=internet_email&utm_medium=email&utm_ca mpaign=0410B&utm_content=v2&r=7598_70903=0A-=0AJust in case any of you are tired of borrowing a =0Aleak down tester for your compression tests , check this one from Harbor =0AFreight.=0ADeke=0A-=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:08 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Compression tester If it doesn't have the correct size all you need do is tailor it. I little brazing of the current one and drill it to size. I bought one of these about ten years ago and still works fine. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Compression tester > > Deke- > I've thought about those testers for a long time, and wondered if they > have the .040" master orifice included. As I understand it, a master > orifice of that size is required for pistons of under 5" diameter, which > would include most American cars, and probably most small airplane > engines. Is anybody up to speed on this topic? > > If those testers are as good as some of the stuff that I've got from > Harbor Freight, that is an excellent buy. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs > Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying (and learning) > do not archive > > > On Jan 21, 2010, at 4:33 PM, fox5flyer wrote: > >> >> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf? itemnumber=94190&? >> utm_source=internet_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0410B&utm_cont >> ent=v2&r=7598_70903 >> >> Just in case any of you are tired of borrowing a leak down tester for >> your compression tests, check this one from Harbor Freight. >> Deke >> >> ============================================================ _- >> ============================================================ _- >> contribution_- >> =========================================================== > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:53 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Your remark reminded me of when my father, a doctor, started his flying lessons. He stole an hour one afternoon to go flying... on the way to the airport his car started to drift across to the left side of the road and while thinking about the flying he started applying "right rudder". He was at almost full right rudder when he hit the back of a garbage truck. I guess it's like father love son... Several times on nice days when I get to a straight stretch of open road I find myself pulling back on the wheel... J Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Reilly Sent: January 21, 2010 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Lynn, My father had an old flight instructor that actually refused to give flying lessons to lawyers and doctors because he had a couple of them as students and they already knew everything. I didn't know Marco was a lawyer. Gee, he seems like a nice enough guy? Maybe he is a patent lawyer or something. What kind of a lawyer are you Marco? do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:44 AM, fox5flyer wrote: Good point, Lynn. Hadn't thought of it that way. How's the new intake manifold working for you? Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain Holes in Wings Thinking like a (dreaded) lawyer here, maybe the reason for the lack of holes in the flaperon is that as delivered, this is now an "incomplete task", and when the homebuilder completes the task of drilling the holes per the instructions...if there are any...he or she has now completed the task of "building" the flaperon, and can now honestly(?) say that they were the one who completed that task, on the road to the 51% rule. Remember that the 51% rule only compares tasks, not magnitude of tasks....a fuselage welded and painted from the factory equals a rudder pedal bracket built at home in the eyes of the governing body. At least it did when I built my plane........God I hate lawyers! Not you Marco....: ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Zimmermans wrote: My manual for my 1995 Series 5 shows a 3/16 inch drain hole 3/4 of an inch in from the trailing edge in line with the hinge. My factory assembled flapperons do not have the holes. I plan on putting them in. Jim Series 5 0-200 21D MN. s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Compression tester From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Thu, January 21, 2010 1:33 pm, fox5flyer wrote: > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=94190&?utm_source=internet_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0410B&utm_content=v2&r=7598_70903 > > Just in case any of you are tired of borrowing a leak down tester for your compression > tests, check this one from Harbor Freight. > Deke We have a huge Harbor Freight store very near us so I have bought several items now. I have come to realize that most are very low quality Chinese manufactured goods. One item, a propane powered radiant heater, failed to start from new. Pilot light would go out without starting main burner. Returned it and checked out a new one at the store. Loose parts fell out of the box. The third one seems to work but blows out with the slightest breeze, I mean a whisper will blow it out. I bought some impact sockets - marked Heavy Duty Commercial Use. The first one I tried split, second one just rounded out. I bought a small gear puller to remove a pressed on flywheel. The main arms bent while tightening the first use. So, I guess, I am not too confident that what you get there will work very well. We have another tool store called Tool Town and I have had very good luck with them over the years. Bought a lot of No. 30 twist drills from them. They seem to have higher quality stuff although more expensive than Harbor Freight. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other. -- Voltaire (1764) ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:56 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge May be ethanol on the transducer... sorry coudn't resist.... like I tried J Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Fisher Sent: January 20, 2010 1:33 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Dick ok, just went for a quick flight -7 C here today and still shows zero oh well ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Fisher Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Will go flying later today I had this afew times before with it cleared up this time ? no idea Wil let you know ----- Original Message ----- From: catz631@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge Dave, I am sorry to hear about the failure in your gauge but in some ways I am going ...Yessssss ! The old adage "misery loves company" is true in this case. I hate being the only one that ever has a problem with a product.(it has been that way lately) Perhaps voodoo did have something to do with it. Anyway, I do hope you find the problem and if it is a jammed rotor in the transducer, tell Northstar about it. My transducer was mounted perfectly vertical as per the instructions and both of them failed in short order Dick Maddux Fox 4 Milton,Fl href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:56 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: Kitfox-List: off topic I have started a new website to share pictures of general aviation aircraft. Unfortunately there are few pics of my fox but there are a bunch that were taken from it. It is still in the building phase and the picture database is still being worked on but I am adding new pages all the time. If you have a few min check it out and let me know what you think. (Off list of coarse) there are email links on the site. Also any suggestions would be greatly appreciated http://www.sportflight.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.