---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/23/10: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:28 AM - Re: Kitfox = Fun factor (dave) 2. 08:43 AM - Kiev Prop update (catz631@aol.com) 3. 09:41 AM - Re: Kiev Prop update (Dave Fisher) 4. 10:03 AM - Re: Kitfox = Fun factor (WurlyBird) 5. 01:03 PM - Re: Kiev Prop update (JC Propeller Design) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:57 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox = Fun factor From: "dave" Guys, Good points on ski construction. I pondered about an extra brace from axle to the tip but I wanted flex there. On the pedestal itself there are 5 tubes , 4 of which are diagonally placed. These will give excellent side load strength. Just ahead of the 2 front diagonals is where I want it to flex and or bend. When you take the arm and moment and extend it from a rigid structure to the axle and existing lading gear then something will fail or the longeron might bend. As far as the ladder design bending diamond shape -- I doubt it. The tubing .75 x 049 wall and I normalized all the joints so that cracking of crystallized welds/tubes would be put to a minimum. I have done some good drop in stalls form 20 feet landing on frozen sled tracks and hitting over 4 g's on the g meter so far and no troubles. Just remember some guys can wipe out a gear with little wheels on them, try adding a 2 foot arm out away from the axle and see what stress is added. Same goes for the new bush gears , I would be you see the 1/4" bolts bend if they are not careful . After that the longerons and cross member go next. More great videos up -- bout time some of you put your cameras where you mouth is eh? Can't we all get along LOL? http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed1VRxzH0iU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rlAsOBEyeE -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283052#283052 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:30 AM PST US From: catz631@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Kiev Prop update Well, this is the last you will hear from me on this subject so I will quit boring you. Yesterday was a golden day for flying. Temp was 70 degrees with 5 knots of wind down the runway (today is dog do do) I did all my test flying on this prop. (6 hrs worth..prop on/off, change pitch,etc)) Here are the numbers: KIEV PROP: (1) 12 degrees pitch/4800 static/95-100 @5000 rpm/5500 full throttle (2) 11 degrees pitch/5000 static/ _90@5000rpm/5800_ (mailto:90@5000rpm/5800) full throttle (3) 10 degrees pitch/5200 _static/80@5000_ (mailto:static/80@5000) rpm/ would have exceeded 5800 at full Notes: (1) Prop was much smoother running than the Warp, engine cooling seemed to be greater ( cht and oil temps),power on approach was 2800 to maintain 55 mph approach speed vs 1800 rpm on the Warp. Prop acted as a "flat plate". If pulled to idle the aircraft would come down much faster (not necessarily a bad thing..like going to full increase on a constant speed prop) (2) prop pitch angles were based on the prop angle adjusting tool marks not actual prop pitch angles WARP PROP: (1) 5200 static-5400 down the runway/88-90 @5000rpm/5700 full throttle CONCLUSION: I really liked the beauty of the Kiev prop, but you just can't stand around and look at it. I loved its smooth running (like a turbine). The static rpm was way too low to achieve a meaningful speed increase for this prop. 5200 is the minimum per Rotax instruction. I have gone back to my "butt ugly" Warp (as one guy called it).The prop is well built and I like the prop to flange attachment much better than the Kiev arrangement. The HP hub uses prop bushings on the outer holes for better stability I think.(LYC/Cont style) As a side note I did sell the Kiev within 1 hour of me telling a guy at the Sebring Light Sport expo I did not want it. They are pretty backed up on orders at Kiev. Oh Well !!! ... I sure wish it would have worked !!!! Dick Maddux Fox 4 912UL Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:35 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev Prop update Dick, Great report on the Kiev although disappointing. I would suggest IVO if you want more speed.IVo do look flimsy but they do work well. I run mostly WARP as for seaplane it near indestructable although it heavier. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: catz631@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:35 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kiev Prop update Well, this is the last you will hear from me on this subject so I will quit boring you. Yesterday was a golden day for flying. Temp was 70 degrees with 5 knots of wind down the runway (today is dog do do) I did all my test flying on this prop. (6 hrs worth..prop on/off, change pitch,etc)) Here are the numbers: KIEV PROP: (1) 12 degrees pitch/4800 static/95-100 @5000 rpm/5500 full throttle (2) 11 degrees pitch/5000 static/ 90@5000rpm/5800 full throttle (3) 10 degrees pitch/5200 static/80@5000 rpm/ would have exceeded 5800 at full Notes: (1) Prop was much smoother running than the Warp, engine cooling seemed to be greater ( cht and oil temps),power on approach was 2800 to maintain 55 mph approach speed vs 1800 rpm on the Warp. Prop acted as a "flat plate". If pulled to idle the aircraft would come down much faster (not necessarily a bad thing..like going to full increase on a constant speed prop) (2) prop pitch angles were based on the prop angle adjusting tool marks not actual prop pitch angles WARP PROP: (1) 5200 static-5400 down the runway/88-90 @5000rpm/5700 full throttle CONCLUSION: I really liked the beauty of the Kiev prop, but you just can't stand around and look at it. I loved its smooth running (like a turbine). The static rpm was way too low to achieve a meaningful speed increase for this prop. 5200 is the minimum per Rotax instruction. I have gone back to my "butt ugly" Warp (as one guy called it).The prop is well built and I like the prop to flange attachment much better than the Kiev arrangement. The HP hub uses prop bushings on the outer holes for better stability I think.(LYC/Cont style) As a side note I did sell the Kiev within 1 hour of me telling a guy at the Sebring Light Sport expo I did not want it. They are pretty backed up on orders at Kiev. Oh Well !!! ... I sure wish it would have worked !!!! Dick Maddux Fox 4 912UL Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:39 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox = Fun factor From: "WurlyBird" I am running out of time before this next deployment but if I can get the gearbox put back on soon I will get some video of some of my STOL flights. A small farm in front of my buddies house has been cleared so I am gonna try to pull up right in his front yard. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop The ink is still drying on my new certificate Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283107#283107 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:40 PM PST US From: "JC Propeller Design" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kiev Prop update There is some test of different props on http://www.stolspeed.com/id/62?secondary_id Pic seems to be gone, but text is there. it say about the same as your short test, not a big difference in cruise speed but in static rpm. Bolly seems to be a snap better. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: catz631@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:35 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kiev Prop update Well, this is the last you will hear from me on this subject so I will quit boring you. Yesterday was a golden day for flying. Temp was 70 degrees with 5 knots of wind down the runway (today is dog do do) I did all my test flying on this prop. (6 hrs worth..prop on/off, change pitch,etc)) Here are the numbers: KIEV PROP: (1) 12 degrees pitch/4800 static/95-100 @5000 rpm/5500 full throttle (2) 11 degrees pitch/5000 static/ 90@5000rpm/5800 full throttle (3) 10 degrees pitch/5200 static/80@5000 rpm/ would have exceeded 5800 at full Notes: (1) Prop was much smoother running than the Warp, engine cooling seemed to be greater ( cht and oil temps),power on approach was 2800 to maintain 55 mph approach speed vs 1800 rpm on the Warp. Prop acted as a "flat plate". If pulled to idle the aircraft would come down much faster (not necessarily a bad thing..like going to full increase on a constant speed prop) (2) prop pitch angles were based on the prop angle adjusting tool marks not actual prop pitch angles WARP PROP: (1) 5200 static-5400 down the runway/88-90 @5000rpm/5700 full throttle CONCLUSION: I really liked the beauty of the Kiev prop, but you just can't stand around and look at it. I loved its smooth running (like a turbine). The static rpm was way too low to achieve a meaningful speed increase for this prop. 5200 is the minimum per Rotax instruction. I have gone back to my "butt ugly" Warp (as one guy called it).The prop is well built and I like the prop to flange attachment much better than the Kiev arrangement. The HP hub uses prop bushings on the outer holes for better stability I think.(LYC/Cont style) As a side note I did sell the Kiev within 1 hour of me telling a guy at the Sebring Light Sport expo I did not want it. They are pretty backed up on orders at Kiev. Oh Well !!! ... I sure wish it would have worked !!!! Dick Maddux Fox 4 912UL Milton,Fl __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4750 (20100107) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur e database 4750 (20100107) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.