Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels (fox5flyer)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels (Lynn Matteson)
3. 08:46 AM - Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve? (Noel Loveys)
4. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels (Noel Loveys)
5. 09:43 AM - Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve? (Lynn Matteson)
6. 11:16 AM - Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve? (akflyer)
7. 04:21 PM - Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve? (Noel Loveys)
8. 05:48 PM - Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve? (Tom Jones)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels |
More than likely the fishing is crappy. Pun intended...
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels
>
> The fact that the ice fishermen haven't been going to the lake across
> the road so much this winter either says something about the lack of
> fish or the condition of the ice. I think I'll stop and ask them next
> time I see one. Right now there are zero shanties on that lake, but
> plenty of shanties or just tip-ups on other lakes in the area....and
> we've got plenty of 'em!
> Thanks for the info, Noel.
> And from what I've seen of the "Ice Truckers", maybe they drill a
> hole for their cameras, too. Man, the way those guys swear, you'd
> think they were overhauling a Jabiru. : )...or installing bungees on
> a Kitfox.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 845.1 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs~155 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
> Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2010, at 10:11 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
>>
>> If you are thinking about using the lake across the road just take
>> an isce
>> auger and test the thickness of the ice in several places.. BtW
>> the ice
>> tends to refreeze like a plug in the ice but it also tend to freeze
>> thicker
>> after a hole is drilled. Whenever they find thin ice on the ice
>> highways
>> going into Alaska they send a truck out to drill holes in the ice
>> so when it
>> freezes again it freezes thicker. They don't drill the ice to check
>> thickness... some sort of ultrasound or radar.
>>
>> Noel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: February 1, 2010 12:38 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels
>>
>>
>> Hi Deke-
>> I haven't seen ANY cars on the lakes around here, just the shanties.
>> We've had some strange weather down here....very cold for awhile,
>> then warming.....shanties disappear....then this latest
>> cold....shanties come from out of the woodwork. And where I live,
>> the snow hasn't been all that great. At one point we were at 12"
>> compared to 40" same time last year. But it's not 12" on the ground,
>> it's 3" here and melt, 6" and melt to 3" etc, etc. So to get some fun
>> flying on skis in, I'd have to fly over by Kalamazoo at least, or go
>> to the east side of Michigan. I think I left the skis on for maybe 10
>> hours, until I took 'em off. Luckily, it takes about 10-12 minutes to
>> install, and 6 minutes to remove...no jacking required....so if it
>> dumps snow here, I'm ready for the mission at a cup of coffee
>> notice. : )
>>
>> I was also thinking that if I did a ground loop on the ice, the prop
>> oughtta get me out of it, right?
>> Oh, the other thing about me be apprehensive about the lake across
>> the road....there had been a big open spot for the longest time, and
>> that kept my pucker factor at the red-line for quite a while. Locals
>> here said they hadn't seen the lake that open in their memory.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 844 hrs
>> Countdown to 1000 hrs~156 to go
>> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
>> Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Rotec TBI-40 injection
>> Status: flying (and learning)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 1, 2010, at 8:23 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
>>
>>> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>>>
>>> Lynn, landing on ice is no big deal. The rudder does the work.
>>> Just land into the wind and ensure nothing in front of you and
>>> watch for snowmobiles screaming across the lake. If you see cars
>>> parked out there, the ice will be fine.
>>> Go for it.
>>> Deke
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:32 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels |
I'll borrow your recent "groan" for a response to that one, Deke. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 845.1 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~155 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Feb 2, 2010, at 7:04 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> More than likely the fishing is crappy. Pun intended...
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels
>
>
>> The fact that the ice fishermen haven't been going to the lake
>> across the road so much this winter either says something about
>> the lack of fish or the condition of the ice. I think I'll stop
>> and ask them next time I see one.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Source for small diameter fire sleeve? |
Even the steel lines should be inspected on a regular basis. There are even
on certified planes some rubber lines but they don't use the slip on barbs
with a clamp. Copper is softer and therefore a lot easier to work with but
it work hardens easily and cracks just as easily. It should be ok if it is
suspended by rubber but ZI wouldn't trust it for anything but to get out of
a jam. For the price of a small pipe bender and availability of line at a
local brake shop I can't see using copper except if you are stuck between a
rock and a hard place.
Remember the certified crowd are the ones that taught you to fly... and
their first object is your safety.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: February 1, 2010 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?
I just went back to see why such small fire sleeve was needed, and I
see it's for polyurethane.....not such a good idea under the cowl is
it? I thought that all under-cowl fuel line should be metallic, or
protected hose, or has someone lowered the standards? Case in
point....Cessna primer lines are 1/8" steel lines, and I think that
even copper is frowned upon....it may be legal, but how much
vibration does it take for cracks to appear?
Sorry if I seem to be hanging around the certified aircraft crowd too
much and picking up bad habits. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 844 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~156 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Jan 31, 2010, at 11:24 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> Here, Tom. You should be able to find what you need in here.
> Deke
> http://www.atkinsandpearce.com/Coated_Insulation_Products/Ben-Har/
>
>
>>
>> Does anyone know where I can find some small diameter fire sleeve
>> to put on the primer line? The line I want to cover is 1/4 inch
>> outside diameter polyurethane.
>> Thanks
>> tj
>>
>> --------
>> Tom Jones
>> Classic IV
>> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
>> Ellensburg, WA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284152#284152
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels |
I'm not an ice trucker but @#$%^right!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: February 2, 2010 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels
The fact that the ice fishermen haven't been going to the lake across
the road so much this winter either says something about the lack of
fish or the condition of the ice. I think I'll stop and ask them next
time I see one. Right now there are zero shanties on that lake, but
plenty of shanties or just tip-ups on other lakes in the area....and
we've got plenty of 'em!
Thanks for the info, Noel.
And from what I've seen of the "Ice Truckers", maybe they drill a
hole for their cameras, too. Man, the way those guys swear, you'd
think they were overhauling a Jabiru. : )...or installing bungees on
a Kitfox.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 845.1 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~155 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Feb 1, 2010, at 10:11 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> If you are thinking about using the lake across the road just take
> an isce
> auger and test the thickness of the ice in several places.. BtW
> the ice
> tends to refreeze like a plug in the ice but it also tend to freeze
> thicker
> after a hole is drilled. Whenever they find thin ice on the ice
> highways
> going into Alaska they send a truck out to drill holes in the ice
> so when it
> freezes again it freezes thicker. They don't drill the ice to check
> thickness... some sort of ultrasound or radar.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: February 1, 2010 12:38 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels
>
>
> Hi Deke-
> I haven't seen ANY cars on the lakes around here, just the shanties.
> We've had some strange weather down here....very cold for awhile,
> then warming.....shanties disappear....then this latest
> cold....shanties come from out of the woodwork. And where I live,
> the snow hasn't been all that great. At one point we were at 12"
> compared to 40" same time last year. But it's not 12" on the ground,
> it's 3" here and melt, 6" and melt to 3" etc, etc. So to get some fun
> flying on skis in, I'd have to fly over by Kalamazoo at least, or go
> to the east side of Michigan. I think I left the skis on for maybe 10
> hours, until I took 'em off. Luckily, it takes about 10-12 minutes to
> install, and 6 minutes to remove...no jacking required....so if it
> dumps snow here, I'm ready for the mission at a cup of coffee
> notice. : )
>
> I was also thinking that if I did a ground loop on the ice, the prop
> oughtta get me out of it, right?
> Oh, the other thing about me be apprehensive about the lake across
> the road....there had been a big open spot for the longest time, and
> that kept my pucker factor at the red-line for quite a while. Locals
> here said they hadn't seen the lake that open in their memory.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 844 hrs
> Countdown to 1000 hrs~156 to go
> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
> Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection
> Status: flying (and learning)
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2010, at 8:23 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
>> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>>
>> Lynn, landing on ice is no big deal. The rudder does the work.
>> Just land into the wind and ensure nothing in front of you and
>> watch for snowmobiles screaming across the lake. If you see cars
>> parked out there, the ice will be fine.
>> Go for it.
>> Deke
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flying on Snow with Wheels
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve? |
I recently did a primer job on my flight instructors' 1963(?) Cessna.
I guess some of those early ones had priming going only to one bank
of cylinders, and he wanted all 6 cylinders primed. He had some old
SS lines (from another engine) that were too long, and I shortened
them, re-bent some, and silver-soldered the ball-type ends on them.
I'm probably not using the proper term for those end fittings, but
nonetheless, I got all six lines run to a distribution log, or block,
and the thing looked like a factory job when done...well, maybe it
wasn't THAT bad. : )
But that's when I was told that copper wasn't the best material for
the job, but it is sometimes used. And no, I never had to un-solder a
ball fitting so as to install the flare nut. Like any job of that
magnitude, I always check twice before firing up the torch. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 845.1 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~155 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Even the steel lines should be inspected on a regular basis. There
> are even
> on certified planes some rubber lines but they don't use the slip
> on barbs
> with a clamp. Copper is softer and therefore a lot easier to work
> with but
> it work hardens easily and cracks just as easily. It should be ok
> if it is
> suspended by rubber but ZI wouldn't trust it for anything but to
> get out of
> a jam. For the price of a small pipe bender and availability of
> line at a
> local brake shop I can't see using copper except if you are stuck
> between a
> rock and a hard place.
>
> Remember the certified crowd are the ones that taught you to
> fly... and
> their first object is your safety.
>
> Noel
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve? |
Every Cub type plane I have worked on including my short wing piper death trap
has copper lines for the primer. If they are not supported right, or are run
to short with no relief they can crack, but they are still widely used here.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (100 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284635#284635
Message 7
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| Subject: | Source for small diameter fire sleeve? |
In that case when the primer is in and locked no fuel flows through the
lines so a crack won't end up with the big bang. I know there used to be
one engine that the pilots would occasionally leave the primer unlocked and
had problems shutting it down... I think it was one of the old pilots vs
engineer things... like the gripe sheet that said "something wrong in the
cockpit" and the repair log that said "something fixed in the cockpit".
One of the things I wished we did in technical college was silver soldering.
I'm not too bad with regular solder but that's another game all together.
We did get some experience on the English wheel.. Watch the fingers!
Students were not allowed to use the lathes for some reason. Welding was
also out even though all the equipment was there.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: February 2, 2010 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?
I recently did a primer job on my flight instructors' 1963(?) Cessna.
I guess some of those early ones had priming going only to one bank
of cylinders, and he wanted all 6 cylinders primed. He had some old
SS lines (from another engine) that were too long, and I shortened
them, re-bent some, and silver-soldered the ball-type ends on them.
I'm probably not using the proper term for those end fittings, but
nonetheless, I got all six lines run to a distribution log, or block,
and the thing looked like a factory job when done...well, maybe it
wasn't THAT bad. : )
But that's when I was told that copper wasn't the best material for
the job, but it is sometimes used. And no, I never had to un-solder a
ball fitting so as to install the flare nut. Like any job of that
magnitude, I always check twice before firing up the torch. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 845.1 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~155 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Even the steel lines should be inspected on a regular basis. There
> are even
> on certified planes some rubber lines but they don't use the slip
> on barbs
> with a clamp. Copper is softer and therefore a lot easier to work
> with but
> it work hardens easily and cracks just as easily. It should be ok
> if it is
> suspended by rubber but ZI wouldn't trust it for anything but to
> get out of
> a jam. For the price of a small pipe bender and availability of
> line at a
> local brake shop I can't see using copper except if you are stuck
> between a
> rock and a hard place.
>
> Remember the certified crowd are the ones that taught you to
> fly... and
> their first object is your safety.
>
> Noel
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve? |
I did a lot of thinking about what material to use for the primer line. I considered
copper, ridged aluminum, polyurethane, soft aluminum, poly flow or whatever
our brake lines are.
My logic says an in flight fire is low probability. My thinking is the biggest
threat of a fire is if I bump into something with my Kitfox.
Two strokes have a lot of vibration so I ruled out the copper and aluminum for
fear of cracking. I remember my grandpa's 56 ford pick up breaking the copper
oil pressure sender line on one of our deer hunting trips. I thought about
using copper or aluminum in the cabin and transition to polyurethane in front
of the fire wall but that adds several connections that there is no good way
to make and increases chances for a leak.
I decided to use 1/8th ID X 1/4 OD polyurethane cause I think if it gets crunched
it has the best chance of not springing a leak. That stuff is very tuff and
bends real well without breaking.
I have my halon fire extinguisher mounted on the center tubing next to my knee
so flame on being as the original question still remains.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284670#284670
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