Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?coolant from v (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 06:06 AM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? (Tom Jones)
3. 04:38 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? (Roger Lee)
4. 05:05 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10 (Ed Gray)
5. 05:45 PM - Ed Gray Engine (Michael Logan)
6. 07:01 PM - Fw: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/11/10 (riquenkelly@aol.com)
7. 11:15 PM - Ed Gray Engine (Michael Gibbs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?coolant |
from v
>M/y Rotax 912ul leaked for a few days, then stopped all on its own. Be
patient for a bit and see what happens.
Stan <
I think Stan is on to something here. During my recent 912 course I
mentioned that I was having some leakage in my 912UL below the water pump. In my
case it doesn't appear to be coming from the weep hole. The instructor
mentioned that it might be coming from the stainless steel bolt that uses a copper
washer for a seal. This is used to drain the pump. I ordered a new copper
washer and maybe this was the problem. Will find out when I fill the system
and run the engine.
The instructor did mention that Rotax does allow for some leakage from the
weep hole. Not much grant you but I think it bares watching to see if it
will resolve itself. I believe it mentions in their instructions about
counting so many drops a minute, hour,etc. I saw it somewhere but can't put my
hands on it.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? |
> There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing that bolts to the motor
behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant. This motor has sat around
for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in for and how and what I need
to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the parts book that it is called
a rotary seal part number 850-945.
George, I'm just a Ski Doo Rotax mechanic so I may be full of BS about a 582
Aircraft Rotax. There are two seals on the RV shaft with a space between which
prevents coolant mixing with the RV oil if a seal fails. That hole is between
the RV shaft oil seal on the engine block side and the coolant seal on the
water pump/outer end of the RV shaft.
The purpose of the hole is to detect if/when one of those seals is leaking. If
coolant drips out the hole the water pump seal is leaking, and if oil drips out
its the RV oil seal leaking.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286528#286528
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? |
The engine in question here is a rebuilt 914 and coolant is coming out the weep
hole.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286591#286591
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10 |
Seeking advice from all Kitfox builders and "experts". I am halfway through
a Kitfox IV (1994 kit) which I am building to put on amphib floats. I want
to install at least 100 hp., but may not have enough cash for a 912S. What
is the best alternative engine? I like the Raven 1300 but Jeron thinks it
may be too heavy. Cant afford a Jab 120. Hearing bad things about the Soob
(heavy, doesn't deliver hp, etc. Query No. ONE What engine is best for
10k?
No. TWO I want to make the outer wing bays removable to convert to a
speedster on demand. Has anyone done it, how is it done, what diff. in
performance? I'm thinking a tube with O.D. which slips in the spars I.D.
then held with pin and safety like the root. The kit contains two extra
ribs so I can build up the 2 outer bays separately
No. THREE What other changes make a speedster wing? Is it only the lower
surface baby ribs to maintain the airfoil of the ribs?
Ed Gray Dallas KII 582 30 hours now and vertical tail being enlarged to Mod.
IV size
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:00 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
10-02-14&Archive=Kitfox
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2010-02-14&Archive=Kitfox
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 02/14/10: 6
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:32 AM - Re: STEWART SYSTEM (Av8r3400)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: STEWART SYSTEM (larry huntley)
3. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: STEWART SYSTEM (Malcolm Brubaker)
4. 12:11 PM - Re: 582 cyl head venting tube? closed? doubt it... (Ken
Potter)
5. 02:31 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
(kirk hull)
6. 05:06 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
(sourdostan@aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 04:32:22 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
From: "Av8r3400" <theav8rweb@yahoo.com>
larry huntley wrote:
> It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process,
> even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? ) (G) Larry
> ---
I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering
for future
repairs. I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I didn't think
latex would bite into itself on a repair...
I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a try.
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:08:21 AM PST US
From: "larry huntley" <asq@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
I have a 4-1200 also on which I used Cub Yellow PolyTone. Some kind of bug
left green spots all over it that went right down to the fabric. I repainted
w/ Aerothane and a year later it looked the same. After dinging up the
fuselage in an "unscheduled landing" I recovered w/ Stewart's Cub Yellow and
put it in the same environment and it is still clean.
Dan can tell you how to make repairs and he will be very happy to talk to
you. Tell him I sent you. Larry Huntley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Av8r3400" <theav8rweb@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
>
>
> larry huntley wrote:
>> It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process,
>> even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? ) (G) Larry
>> ---
>
>
> I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering
> for future repairs. I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I
> didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair...
>
> I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a
> try.
>
> --------
> Thanks,
> Av8r3400
>
> Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
> Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08:43:00
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 07:07:17 AM PST US
From: Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
utube- stewert systems and u will find several factory videos, and there
are also several how to videos on EAA tutorial that will help-- mal
Malcolm Brubaker
=0AMichigan Sport
=0APilot Repair
=0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS
=0A(989)513-3022
--- On Sun, 2/14/10, Av8r3400 <theav8rweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Av8r3400 <theav8rweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
larry huntley wrote:
> It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process,
> even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? )---(G)- Larry
> ---
I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering f
or future repairs.- I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I
didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair...
I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a try
..
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 12:11:35 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 cyl head venting tube? closed? doubt it...
From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
Wild;
THANK YOU for your post. In preparation for test running and first flight
in
the spring I have recently filled my 582 with coolant. After seeing your
post
I checked my vent fitting and....... it was not drilled either. My filling
cap
unit was supplied to the previous owner by Denny in 1989 ( Model II, Ser.
483). I wonder how many others are out there that are not venting
properly,
or how many other have had overheat problems without knowing why. This
probably
only applies to Model I and II but my recommendation is... check that the
fitting is indeed drilled out.
Thanks again for you observation.
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286420#286420
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 02:31:36 PM PST US
From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
Not sure about the rotax as I fly behind a Subaru but on a Chevy that would
mean it is time to change the entire water pump not just a seal
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox George
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing that bolts to the
motor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant. This motor has sat
around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in for and how and what
I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the parts book that it
is called a rotary seal part number 850-945.
George
Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet!
do not archive
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 05:06:28 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
From: sourdostan@aol.com
M/y Rotax 912ul leaked for a few days, then stopped all on its own. Be
patient for a bit and see what happens.
Stan Specht
Lakewood, Colorado
Kitfox IV Speedster
912ul 1600+ hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: kirk hull <kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 3:31 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing
?
Not sure about the rotax as I fly behind aSubaru but on a Chevy that would
mean it is time to change the entire water pumpnot just a seal
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox George
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 201011:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: coolant fromvent hole behind water pump housing?
There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing thatbolts to the mo
tor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant.This motor has sat
around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in forand how and wha
t I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the partsbook that
it is called a rotary seal part number 850-945.
George
Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet!
do not archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com href="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/c
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=============
Message 5
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|
Ed,
I would not shorten up your wings, especially if you are thinking of putting
the IV on floats. Having a short wing reduces your gross weight and does
not give you much in increased top speed but you lose a lot of lift for
takeoff.
Mike Logan
Series 5 short wing
RAM EA81
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Gray
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10
Seeking advice from all Kitfox builders and "experts". I am halfway through
a Kitfox IV (1994 kit) which I am building to put on amphib floats. I want
to install at least 100 hp., but may not have enough cash for a 912S. What
is the best alternative engine? I like the Raven 1300 but Jeron thinks it
may be too heavy. Cant afford a Jab 120. Hearing bad things about the Soob
(heavy, doesn't deliver hp, etc. Query No. ONE What engine is best for
10k?
No. TWO I want to make the outer wing bays removable to convert to a
speedster on demand. Has anyone done it, how is it done, what diff. in
performance? I'm thinking a tube with O.D. which slips in the spars I.D.
then held with pin and safety like the root. The kit contains two extra
ribs so I can build up the 2 outer bays separately
No. THREE What other changes make a speedster wing? Is it only the lower
surface baby ribs to maintain the airfoil of the ribs?
Ed Gray Dallas KII 582 30 hours now and vertical tail being enlarged to Mod.
IV size
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:00 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
10-02-14&Archive=Kitfox
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2010-02-14&Archive=Kitfox
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 02/14/10: 6
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:32 AM - Re: STEWART SYSTEM (Av8r3400)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: STEWART SYSTEM (larry huntley)
3. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: STEWART SYSTEM (Malcolm Brubaker)
4. 12:11 PM - Re: 582 cyl head venting tube? closed? doubt it... (Ken
Potter)
5. 02:31 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
(kirk hull)
6. 05:06 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
(sourdostan@aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 04:32:22 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
From: "Av8r3400" <theav8rweb@yahoo.com>
larry huntley wrote:
> It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process,
> even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? ) (G) Larry
> ---
I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering
for future
repairs. I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I didn't think
latex would bite into itself on a repair...
I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a try.
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 05:08:21 AM PST US
From: "larry huntley" <asq@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
I have a 4-1200 also on which I used Cub Yellow PolyTone. Some kind of bug
left green spots all over it that went right down to the fabric. I repainted
w/ Aerothane and a year later it looked the same. After dinging up the
fuselage in an "unscheduled landing" I recovered w/ Stewart's Cub Yellow and
put it in the same environment and it is still clean.
Dan can tell you how to make repairs and he will be very happy to talk to
you. Tell him I sent you. Larry Huntley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Av8r3400" <theav8rweb@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
>
>
> larry huntley wrote:
>> It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process,
>> even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? ) (G) Larry
>> ---
>
>
> I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering
> for future repairs. I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I
> didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair...
>
> I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a
> try.
>
> --------
> Thanks,
> Av8r3400
>
> Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
> Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08:43:00
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 07:07:17 AM PST US
From: Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
utube- stewert systems and u will find several factory videos, and there
are also several how to videos on EAA tutorial that will help-- mal
Malcolm Brubaker
=0AMichigan Sport
=0APilot Repair
=0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS
=0A(989)513-3022
--- On Sun, 2/14/10, Av8r3400 <theav8rweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Av8r3400 <theav8rweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM
larry huntley wrote:
> It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process,
> even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? )---(G)- Larry
> ---
I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering f
or future repairs.- I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I
didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair...
I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a try
..
--------
Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 12:11:35 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 cyl head venting tube? closed? doubt it...
From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
Wild;
THANK YOU for your post. In preparation for test running and first flight
in
the spring I have recently filled my 582 with coolant. After seeing your
post
I checked my vent fitting and....... it was not drilled either. My filling
cap
unit was supplied to the previous owner by Denny in 1989 ( Model II, Ser.
483). I wonder how many others are out there that are not venting
properly,
or how many other have had overheat problems without knowing why. This
probably
only applies to Model I and II but my recommendation is... check that the
fitting is indeed drilled out.
Thanks again for you observation.
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286420#286420
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 02:31:36 PM PST US
From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
Not sure about the rotax as I fly behind a Subaru but on a Chevy that would
mean it is time to change the entire water pump not just a seal
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox George
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing that bolts to the
motor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant. This motor has sat
around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in for and how and what
I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the parts book that it
is called a rotary seal part number 850-945.
George
Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet!
do not archive
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 05:06:28 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?
From: sourdostan@aol.com
M/y Rotax 912ul leaked for a few days, then stopped all on its own. Be
patient for a bit and see what happens.
Stan Specht
Lakewood, Colorado
Kitfox IV Speedster
912ul 1600+ hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: kirk hull <kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 3:31 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing
?
Not sure about the rotax as I fly behind aSubaru but on a Chevy that would
mean it is time to change the entire water pumpnot just a seal
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox George
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 201011:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: coolant fromvent hole behind water pump housing?
There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing thatbolts to the mo
tor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant.This motor has sat
around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in forand how and wha
t I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the partsbook that
it is called a rotary seal part number 850-945.
George
Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet!
do not archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com href="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/c
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=============
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Fwd: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/11/10 |
Yes, I have removed the ground leads to the DCIs completely and manually
grounded each circuit while running the engine at idle, without the prop.
The problem continued. The intermittent fault seems to go away when the
engine is first cranked and to return when it heats up. I tried swapping
only the red (trigger) lead between the two DCIs. The problem followed.
I think that means the only options are a short in the 2 inches of red
wire coming from the case, a fault in the connector itself, or a fault so
mewhere at the flywheel. I have no idea why they would put such short lea
ds out of the case! Once I re-terminal the red lead at the case, if I don
't see success I guess I have to pull the motor and R&R the harness inside
the case. Anybody see a fault in my logic?
Thanks for your guidance.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kitfox-List Digest Server <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 1:59 am
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/11/10
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Kitfox-List Digest Archive
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Total Messages Posted Thu 02/11/10: 6
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oday's Message Index:
---------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue (fox5flyer)
2. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Static Ports (fox5flyer)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue (Paul Franz - Merli
n GT)
4. 05:30 AM - Re: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition Iss
ue
Catz631@aol.com)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue (Noel Loveys)
6. 07:58 AM - Re: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition Iss
ue
Noel Loveys)
_______________________________ Message 1 ______________________________
_______
ime: 03:48:18 AM PST US
rom: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue
Rique, as has already been mentioned, check your ground wires carefully
or not only good contact, but good continuity also. Don't just wiggle
hem. Disconnect and reconnect ensuring no corrosion and ensure contact
s clean. In the past there have been many owners who had similar
roblems with ignition wires that were separated inside the insulation.
believe that most of those were from the hot wire, but I'm sure it
ould be either one. It can be a difficult issue to resolve, but a
areful step by step search should find the culprit.
ne thing, did you build the aircraft? How many operating hours are on
t?
eke Morisse
ikado Michigan
5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
esert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
----- Original Message -----
From: riquenkelly@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 12:22 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue
The engine quits when one switch is off (grounding the good side).
ut this is intermittent. I'll either get the normal 150-250 rpm drop
nd recovery or the engine will quit altogether. And this will happen
ithin seconds of each other if I perform repeated checks.
-----Original Message-----
From: riquenkelly@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:21 pm
Subject: Intermittent Ignition Issue
Listers,
I am out of ideas. I have a Model IV with a 582 and Ducati
gnition. About 50% of the time my aircraft fails ground check on one
ide of my ignition. I have checked for every loose connection I can
hink of. How frequently have the brushes on the flywheel failed?
ould they be intermittent? I have replaced the DCI I thought was the
ailed unit but I'm not sure how likely it is for a DCI to fire
ntermittently.
Does anyone have any good suggestions? I've checked everything I can
hink of...
Thanks for the help,
Rique Gwin
Kitfox Model IV Classic
582 Grey
_______________________________ Message 2 ______________________________
_______
ime: 03:48:19 AM PST US
rom: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Pitot Static Ports
nteresting contribution. Would have been more useful with some meaningfu
l
nformation about building a Kitfox.
eke
---- Original Message -----
rom: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
ent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:51 PM
ubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Pitot Static Ports
<james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
If ANYONE, EVER, crashed a Kitfox or similar aircraft due to an instrumen
t
failure they probably needed to be removed from the aviation gene pool
anyway. The only instruments I rely on are the RPM and TGT. Every other
instrument in the aircraft is only used to reinforce what the pilot shoul
d
have already felt.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
The ink is still drying on my new certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285912#285912
_______________________________ Message 3 ______________________________
_______
ime: 05:06:01 AM PST US
ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue
rom: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>
n Wed, February 10, 2010 9:22 pm, riquenkelly@aol.com wrote:
The engine quits when one switch is off (grounding the good side). But
this
s
intermittent. I'll either get the normal 150-250 rpm drop and recovery
or the
ngine
will quit altogether. And this will happen within seconds of each other
if I
erform
repeated checks.
Given those details, I would be suspect that one of the composite shielded
(high
ension) leads is broken internally. What happens with a vibrating loose
nternal
onnection is that there is intermittent connectivity and when it is open
ircuit
s
an spark to ground somewhere between the discontinuity and the source. Sor
ry
or
ot
aming the leads properly since I don't own your type setup.
Since this is a critical safety issue, I would replace all the high tensio
n
eads
ather than doing the painstaking process of tracking down the faulty one.
Since
hen
he fault occurs it affects all the spark on one side of the redundant syst
em,
t is
robably the single lead that is common rather than the spark plug wires.
Since
on't know this setup I will use the analogous one for coil and distributor
gnition
nd imagine the engine had two distributors and two coils and two spark plu
gs
er
ylinder. If you disabled one of the coils in say a check and the engine di
es
ike
ours does intermittently where all spark plugs quit, the high tension lead
that
s
ad is the coil wire on the non-disabled coil. It will likely spark to grou
nd
omewhere between the coil and the intermittent discontinuity. You have to
ransfer
his analogy to the DCI/magneto arrangement you have. So my fix would be to
eplace
oth of the high tension coil wires rather than try to determine where the
ntermittent discontinuity is and repairing it.
Now my analogy may be so poor this contribution amounts to little more tha
n idle
angar talk but I could be making some useful points.
1) replace all like failed components rather than repairing them since the
y all
ave
ikely been exposed to similar vibration fatigue.
2) the spark plug wires aren't the problem, given your symptoms, it is a
single
ire
or component) affecting only half of the redundant system.
>
-----Original Message-----
From: riquenkelly@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:21 pm
Subject: Intermittent Ignition Issue
Listers,
I am out of ideas. I have a Model IV with a 582 and Ducati ignition.
About
0% of
the time my aircraft fails ground check on one side of my ignition. I ha
ve
hecked
for every loose connection I can think of. How frequently have the brush
es on
he
flywheel failed? Could they be intermittent? I have replaced the DCI I
hought
as
the failed unit but I'm not sure how likely it is for a DCI to fire
ntermittently.
Does anyone have any good suggestions? I've checked everything I can thi
nk
f...
-
aul A. Franz
egistration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
ngine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
ellevue WA
25.241.1618 Cell
In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as poss
ible
rom
ne party of the citizens to give to the other.
- Voltaire (1764)
One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do
and
lways
lever thing to say.
-- Will Durant
_______________________________ Message 4 ______________________________
_______
ime: 05:30:09 AM PST US
rom: Catz631@aol.com
ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition
Issue
Rique,
That is exactly the same thing that happened on my engine ! (see my prior
ist) I ended up replacing the P leads etc trying to find the problem but
t ended up being a broken wire !. Swap connectors on your electronic boxes
nd see if the problem follows. I would be willing to bet you have a broken
ower wire to one of your modules and it is connecting intermittently.
In any case you could call Ronnie @ South Mississippi Light Aircraft or a
ech at Lockwood,LEAF or CPS and ask them about it also. Ronnie solved my
roblem . He knows these engines !
Dick Maddux
Milton,Fl
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________
________
ime: 07:58:42 AM PST US
rom: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
ubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue
I assume you have tested the switch out of the circuit. That certainly
ounds to me like a faulty switch. Or possibly some of the insulation worn
ff inside the shielding and allowing the P-Lead to short ( turn off the
ag) to the shielding.
oel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
iquenkelly@aol.com
ent: February 11, 2010 1:52 AM
ubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue
he engine quits when one switch is off (grounding the good side). But thi
s
s intermittent. I'll either get the normal 150-250 rpm drop and recovery
r the engine will quit altogether. And this will happen within seconds of
ach other if I perform repeated checks.
----Original Message-----
rom: riquenkelly@aol.com
ent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:21 pm
ubject: Intermittent Ignition Issue
Listers,
I am out of ideas. I have a Model IV with a 582 and Ducati ignition.
bout 50% of the time my aircraft fails ground check on one side of my
gnition. I have checked for every loose connection I can think of. How
requently have the brushes on the flywheel failed? Could they be
ntermittent? I have replaced the DCI I thought was the failed unit but I'
m
ot sure how likely it is for a DCI to fire intermittently.
oes anyone have any good suggestions? I've checked everything I can think
f...
hanks for the help,
ique Gwin
Kitfox Model IV Classic
582 Grey
_______________________________ Message 6 ______________________________
_______
ime: 07:58:42 AM PST US
rom: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
ubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition
Issue
That sounds more than possible to me too
oel
rom: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631@aol.co
m
ent: February 11, 2010 9:51 AM
ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition
ssue
ique,
That is exactly the same thing that happened on my engine ! (see my prio
r
ist) I ended up replacing the P leads etc trying to find the problem but
it
nded up being a broken wire !. Swap connectors on your electronic boxes an
d
ee if the problem follows. I would be willing to bet you have a broken
ower wire to one of your modules and it is connecting intermittently.
In any case you could call Ronnie @ South Mississippi Light Aircraft or
a
ech at Lockwood,LEAF or CPS and ask them about it also. Ronnie solved my
roblem . He knows these engines !
Dick Maddux
Milton,Fl
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Mike sez (referring to a Model IV):
>I would not shorten up your wings, especially if you are thinking of putting
>the IV on floats. Having a short wing reduces your gross weight and does
>not give you much in increased top speed but you lose a lot of lift for
>takeoff.
I cannot speak to the issue of short wings + floats but, on the Model
IV, short wings do not affect gross weight. Stall speed (an indirect
indicator, I'll admit) was virtually the same on my IV, so I suspect
the loss of lift is minimal as well. That said, the longer wing may
provide some advantage in ground effect when you are trying to
unstick from the water.
Ed asks:
>I want to make the outer wing bays removable to convert to a
>speedster on demand. Has anyone done it...
I doubt it is worth the trouble although the implementation would be
basically the same as done on the Series 5 "convertibles."
>No. THREE What other changes make a speedster wing? Is it only the lower
>surface baby ribs to maintain the airfoil of the ribs?
The "speedster" wing is set with less dihedral than the standard wing, too.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
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