---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/15/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:34 AM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?coolant from v (Catz631@aol.com) 2. 06:06 AM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? (Tom Jones) 3. 04:38 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? (Roger Lee) 4. 05:05 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10 (Ed Gray) 5. 05:45 PM - Ed Gray Engine (Michael Logan) 6. 07:01 PM - Fw: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/11/10 (riquenkelly@aol.com) 7. 11:15 PM - Ed Gray Engine (Michael Gibbs) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:49 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing?coolant from v >M/y Rotax 912ul leaked for a few days, then stopped all on its own. Be patient for a bit and see what happens. Stan < I think Stan is on to something here. During my recent 912 course I mentioned that I was having some leakage in my 912UL below the water pump. In my case it doesn't appear to be coming from the weep hole. The instructor mentioned that it might be coming from the stainless steel bolt that uses a copper washer for a seal. This is used to drain the pump. I ordered a new copper washer and maybe this was the problem. Will find out when I fill the system and run the engine. The instructor did mention that Rotax does allow for some leakage from the weep hole. Not much grant you but I think it bares watching to see if it will resolve itself. I believe it mentions in their instructions about counting so many drops a minute, hour,etc. I saw it somewhere but can't put my hands on it. Dick Maddux Fox 4 912UL Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:49 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? From: "Tom Jones" > There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing that bolts to the motor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant. This motor has sat around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in for and how and what I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the parts book that it is called a rotary seal part number 850-945. George, I'm just a Ski Doo Rotax mechanic so I may be full of BS about a 582 Aircraft Rotax. There are two seals on the RV shaft with a space between which prevents coolant mixing with the RV oil if a seal fails. That hole is between the RV shaft oil seal on the engine block side and the coolant seal on the water pump/outer end of the RV shaft. The purpose of the hole is to detect if/when one of those seals is leaking. If coolant drips out the hole the water pump seal is leaking, and if oil drips out its the RV oil seal leaking. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286528#286528 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:53 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? From: "Roger Lee" The engine in question here is a rebuilt 914 and coolant is coming out the weep hole. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286591#286591 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:17 PM PST US From: "Ed Gray" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10 Seeking advice from all Kitfox builders and "experts". I am halfway through a Kitfox IV (1994 kit) which I am building to put on amphib floats. I want to install at least 100 hp., but may not have enough cash for a 912S. What is the best alternative engine? I like the Raven 1300 but Jeron thinks it may be too heavy. Cant afford a Jab 120. Hearing bad things about the Soob (heavy, doesn't deliver hp, etc. Query No. ONE What engine is best for 10k? No. TWO I want to make the outer wing bays removable to convert to a speedster on demand. Has anyone done it, how is it done, what diff. in performance? I'm thinking a tube with O.D. which slips in the spars I.D. then held with pin and safety like the root. The kit contains two extra ribs so I can build up the 2 outer bays separately No. THREE What other changes make a speedster wing? Is it only the lower surface baby ribs to maintain the airfoil of the ribs? Ed Gray Dallas KII 582 30 hours now and vertical tail being enlarged to Mod. IV size Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:00 AM Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-02-14&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2010-02-14&Archive=Kitfox =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/14/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:32 AM - Re: STEWART SYSTEM (Av8r3400) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: STEWART SYSTEM (larry huntley) 3. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: STEWART SYSTEM (Malcolm Brubaker) 4. 12:11 PM - Re: 582 cyl head venting tube? closed? doubt it... (Ken Potter) 5. 02:31 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? (kirk hull) 6. 05:06 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? (sourdostan@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM From: "Av8r3400" larry huntley wrote: > It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process, > even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? ) (G) Larry > --- I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering for future repairs. I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair... I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a try. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:21 AM PST US From: "larry huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM I have a 4-1200 also on which I used Cub Yellow PolyTone. Some kind of bug left green spots all over it that went right down to the fabric. I repainted w/ Aerothane and a year later it looked the same. After dinging up the fuselage in an "unscheduled landing" I recovered w/ Stewart's Cub Yellow and put it in the same environment and it is still clean. Dan can tell you how to make repairs and he will be very happy to talk to you. Tell him I sent you. Larry Huntley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Av8r3400" Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM > > > larry huntley wrote: >> It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process, >> even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? ) (G) Larry >> --- > > > I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering > for future repairs. I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I > didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair... > > I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a > try. > > -------- > Thanks, > Av8r3400 > > Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO > Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 08:43:00 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:17 AM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM utube- stewert systems and u will find several factory videos, and there are also several how to videos on EAA tutorial that will help-- mal Malcolm Brubaker =0AMichigan Sport =0APilot Repair =0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS =0A(989)513-3022 --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Av8r3400 wrote: From: Av8r3400 Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM larry huntley wrote: > It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process, > even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? )---(G)- Larry > --- I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering f or future repairs.- I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair... I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a try .. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:35 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 cyl head venting tube? closed? doubt it... From: "Ken Potter" Wild; THANK YOU for your post. In preparation for test running and first flight in the spring I have recently filled my 582 with coolant. After seeing your post I checked my vent fitting and....... it was not drilled either. My filling cap unit was supplied to the previous owner by Denny in 1989 ( Model II, Ser. 483). I wonder how many others are out there that are not venting properly, or how many other have had overheat problems without knowing why. This probably only applies to Model I and II but my recommendation is... check that the fitting is indeed drilled out. Thanks again for you observation. Cheers Ken -------- Ken Potter Model II, No. 483 Rotax 582, C-Box, 98% Complete C-FJKP (marks reserved) Lanark, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286420#286420 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:36 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? Not sure about the rotax as I fly behind a Subaru but on a Chevy that would mean it is time to change the entire water pump not just a seal _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox George Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:18 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing that bolts to the motor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant. This motor has sat around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in for and how and what I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the parts book that it is called a rotary seal part number 850-945. George Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet! do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? From: sourdostan@aol.com M/y Rotax 912ul leaked for a few days, then stopped all on its own. Be patient for a bit and see what happens. Stan Specht Lakewood, Colorado Kitfox IV Speedster 912ul 1600+ hours. -----Original Message----- From: kirk hull Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 3:31 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing ? Not sure about the rotax as I fly behind aSubaru but on a Chevy that would mean it is time to change the entire water pumpnot just a seal From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox George Sent: Saturday, February 13, 201011:18 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: coolant fromvent hole behind water pump housing? There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing thatbolts to the mo tor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant.This motor has sat around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in forand how and wha t I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the partsbook that it is called a rotary seal part number 850-945. George Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet! do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com href="ht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/c ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ============= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:13 PM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: Kitfox-List: Ed Gray Engine Ed, I would not shorten up your wings, especially if you are thinking of putting the IV on floats. Having a short wing reduces your gross weight and does not give you much in increased top speed but you lose a lot of lift for takeoff. Mike Logan Series 5 short wing RAM EA81 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Gray Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:03 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10 Seeking advice from all Kitfox builders and "experts". I am halfway through a Kitfox IV (1994 kit) which I am building to put on amphib floats. I want to install at least 100 hp., but may not have enough cash for a 912S. What is the best alternative engine? I like the Raven 1300 but Jeron thinks it may be too heavy. Cant afford a Jab 120. Hearing bad things about the Soob (heavy, doesn't deliver hp, etc. Query No. ONE What engine is best for 10k? No. TWO I want to make the outer wing bays removable to convert to a speedster on demand. Has anyone done it, how is it done, what diff. in performance? I'm thinking a tube with O.D. which slips in the spars I.D. then held with pin and safety like the root. The kit contains two extra ribs so I can build up the 2 outer bays separately No. THREE What other changes make a speedster wing? Is it only the lower surface baby ribs to maintain the airfoil of the ribs? Ed Gray Dallas KII 582 30 hours now and vertical tail being enlarged to Mod. IV size Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:00 AM Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/14/10 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-02-14&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2010-02-14&Archive=Kitfox =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/14/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:32 AM - Re: STEWART SYSTEM (Av8r3400) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: STEWART SYSTEM (larry huntley) 3. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: STEWART SYSTEM (Malcolm Brubaker) 4. 12:11 PM - Re: 582 cyl head venting tube? closed? doubt it... (Ken Potter) 5. 02:31 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? (kirk hull) 6. 05:06 PM - Re: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? (sourdostan@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM From: "Av8r3400" larry huntley wrote: > It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process, > even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? ) (G) Larry > --- I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering for future repairs. I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair... I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a try. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:21 AM PST US From: "larry huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM I have a 4-1200 also on which I used Cub Yellow PolyTone. Some kind of bug left green spots all over it that went right down to the fabric. I repainted w/ Aerothane and a year later it looked the same. After dinging up the fuselage in an "unscheduled landing" I recovered w/ Stewart's Cub Yellow and put it in the same environment and it is still clean. Dan can tell you how to make repairs and he will be very happy to talk to you. Tell him I sent you. Larry Huntley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Av8r3400" Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM > > > larry huntley wrote: >> It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process, >> even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? ) (G) Larry >> --- > > > I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering > for future repairs. I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I > didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair... > > I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a > try. > > -------- > Thanks, > Av8r3400 > > Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO > Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 08:43:00 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:17 AM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM utube- stewert systems and u will find several factory videos, and there are also several how to videos on EAA tutorial that will help-- mal Malcolm Brubaker =0AMichigan Sport =0APilot Repair =0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS =0A(989)513-3022 --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Av8r3400 wrote: From: Av8r3400 Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STEWART SYSTEM larry huntley wrote: > It works very well for repairs and you can use it over any other process, > even on certified aircraft. (What did you break? )---(G)- Larry > --- I'm looking at doing a recover of my model IV-1200 and was just wondering f or future repairs.- I know how it works with the Poly Fiber system, but I didn't think latex would bite into itself on a repair... I'm really intrigued by the Stewarts system and would like to give it a try .. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286362#286362 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:35 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 cyl head venting tube? closed? doubt it... From: "Ken Potter" Wild; THANK YOU for your post. In preparation for test running and first flight in the spring I have recently filled my 582 with coolant. After seeing your post I checked my vent fitting and....... it was not drilled either. My filling cap unit was supplied to the previous owner by Denny in 1989 ( Model II, Ser. 483). I wonder how many others are out there that are not venting properly, or how many other have had overheat problems without knowing why. This probably only applies to Model I and II but my recommendation is... check that the fitting is indeed drilled out. Thanks again for you observation. Cheers Ken -------- Ken Potter Model II, No. 483 Rotax 582, C-Box, 98% Complete C-FJKP (marks reserved) Lanark, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286420#286420 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:36 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? Not sure about the rotax as I fly behind a Subaru but on a Chevy that would mean it is time to change the entire water pump not just a seal _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox George Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:18 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing that bolts to the motor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant. This motor has sat around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in for and how and what I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the parts book that it is called a rotary seal part number 850-945. George Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet! do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing? From: sourdostan@aol.com M/y Rotax 912ul leaked for a few days, then stopped all on its own. Be patient for a bit and see what happens. Stan Specht Lakewood, Colorado Kitfox IV Speedster 912ul 1600+ hours. -----Original Message----- From: kirk hull Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 3:31 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: coolant from vent hole behind water pump housing ? Not sure about the rotax as I fly behind aSubaru but on a Chevy that would mean it is time to change the entire water pumpnot just a seal From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox George Sent: Saturday, February 13, 201011:18 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: coolant fromvent hole behind water pump housing? There is a small vent hole in the rear casting housing thatbolts to the mo tor behind water pump that is seeping a little coolant.This motor has sat around for a while. Could someone describe what I'm in forand how and wha t I need to replace the seal. I believe by looking at the partsbook that it is called a rotary seal part number 850-945. George Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet! do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com href="ht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/c ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ============= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:14 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Fwd: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/11/10 From: riquenkelly@aol.com Yes, I have removed the ground leads to the DCIs completely and manually grounded each circuit while running the engine at idle, without the prop. The problem continued. The intermittent fault seems to go away when the engine is first cranked and to return when it heats up. I tried swapping only the red (trigger) lead between the two DCIs. The problem followed. I think that means the only options are a short in the 2 inches of red wire coming from the case, a fault in the connector itself, or a fault so mewhere at the flywheel. I have no idea why they would put such short lea ds out of the case! Once I re-terminal the red lead at the case, if I don 't see success I guess I have to pull the motor and R&R the harness inside the case. Anybody see a fault in my logic? Thanks for your guidance. -----Original Message----- From: Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 1:59 am Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/11/10 * ======================== ======================== = Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== ======================== = Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the wo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted n HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes nd Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version f the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor uch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=ht ml&Chapter 10-02-11&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=tx t&Chapter 10-02-11&Archive=Kitfox ======================== ======================= EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== ======================= ---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/11/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- oday's Message Index: --------------------- 1. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue (fox5flyer) 2. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Static Ports (fox5flyer) 3. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue (Paul Franz - Merli n GT) 4. 05:30 AM - Re: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition Iss ue Catz631@aol.com) 5. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue (Noel Loveys) 6. 07:58 AM - Re: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition Iss ue Noel Loveys) _______________________________ Message 1 ______________________________ _______ ime: 03:48:18 AM PST US rom: "fox5flyer" ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue Rique, as has already been mentioned, check your ground wires carefully or not only good contact, but good continuity also. Don't just wiggle hem. Disconnect and reconnect ensuring no corrosion and ensure contact s clean. In the past there have been many owners who had similar roblems with ignition wires that were separated inside the insulation. believe that most of those were from the hot wire, but I'm sure it ould be either one. It can be a difficult issue to resolve, but a areful step by step search should find the culprit. ne thing, did you build the aircraft? How many operating hours are on t? eke Morisse ikado Michigan 5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara esert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006) ----- Original Message ----- From: riquenkelly@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 12:22 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue The engine quits when one switch is off (grounding the good side). ut this is intermittent. I'll either get the normal 150-250 rpm drop nd recovery or the engine will quit altogether. And this will happen ithin seconds of each other if I perform repeated checks. -----Original Message----- From: riquenkelly@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:21 pm Subject: Intermittent Ignition Issue Listers, I am out of ideas. I have a Model IV with a 582 and Ducati gnition. About 50% of the time my aircraft fails ground check on one ide of my ignition. I have checked for every loose connection I can hink of. How frequently have the brushes on the flywheel failed? ould they be intermittent? I have replaced the DCI I thought was the ailed unit but I'm not sure how likely it is for a DCI to fire ntermittently. Does anyone have any good suggestions? I've checked everything I can hink of... Thanks for the help, Rique Gwin Kitfox Model IV Classic 582 Grey _______________________________ Message 2 ______________________________ _______ ime: 03:48:19 AM PST US rom: "fox5flyer" ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Pitot Static Ports nteresting contribution. Would have been more useful with some meaningfu l nformation about building a Kitfox. eke ---- Original Message ----- rom: "WurlyBird" ent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:51 PM ubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Pitot Static Ports If ANYONE, EVER, crashed a Kitfox or similar aircraft due to an instrumen t failure they probably needed to be removed from the aviation gene pool anyway. The only instruments I rely on are the RPM and TGT. Every other instrument in the aircraft is only used to reinforce what the pilot shoul d have already felt. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop The ink is still drying on my new certificate Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285912#285912 _______________________________ Message 3 ______________________________ _______ ime: 05:06:01 AM PST US ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue rom: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" n Wed, February 10, 2010 9:22 pm, riquenkelly@aol.com wrote: The engine quits when one switch is off (grounding the good side). But this s intermittent. I'll either get the normal 150-250 rpm drop and recovery or the ngine will quit altogether. And this will happen within seconds of each other if I erform repeated checks. Given those details, I would be suspect that one of the composite shielded (high ension) leads is broken internally. What happens with a vibrating loose nternal onnection is that there is intermittent connectivity and when it is open ircuit s an spark to ground somewhere between the discontinuity and the source. Sor ry or ot aming the leads properly since I don't own your type setup. Since this is a critical safety issue, I would replace all the high tensio n eads ather than doing the painstaking process of tracking down the faulty one. Since hen he fault occurs it affects all the spark on one side of the redundant syst em, t is robably the single lead that is common rather than the spark plug wires. Since on't know this setup I will use the analogous one for coil and distributor gnition nd imagine the engine had two distributors and two coils and two spark plu gs er ylinder. If you disabled one of the coils in say a check and the engine di es ike ours does intermittently where all spark plugs quit, the high tension lead that s ad is the coil wire on the non-disabled coil. It will likely spark to grou nd omewhere between the coil and the intermittent discontinuity. You have to ransfer his analogy to the DCI/magneto arrangement you have. So my fix would be to eplace oth of the high tension coil wires rather than try to determine where the ntermittent discontinuity is and repairing it. Now my analogy may be so poor this contribution amounts to little more tha n idle angar talk but I could be making some useful points. 1) replace all like failed components rather than repairing them since the y all ave ikely been exposed to similar vibration fatigue. 2) the spark plug wires aren't the problem, given your symptoms, it is a single ire or component) affecting only half of the redundant system. > -----Original Message----- From: riquenkelly@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:21 pm Subject: Intermittent Ignition Issue Listers, I am out of ideas. I have a Model IV with a 582 and Ducati ignition. About 0% of the time my aircraft fails ground check on one side of my ignition. I ha ve hecked for every loose connection I can think of. How frequently have the brush es on he flywheel failed? Could they be intermittent? I have replaced the DCI I hought as the failed unit but I'm not sure how likely it is for a DCI to fire ntermittently. Does anyone have any good suggestions? I've checked everything I can thi nk f... - aul A. Franz egistration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT ngine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP ellevue WA 25.241.1618 Cell In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as poss ible rom ne party of the citizens to give to the other. - Voltaire (1764) One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and lways lever thing to say. -- Will Durant _______________________________ Message 4 ______________________________ _______ ime: 05:30:09 AM PST US rom: Catz631@aol.com ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition Issue Rique, That is exactly the same thing that happened on my engine ! (see my prior ist) I ended up replacing the P leads etc trying to find the problem but t ended up being a broken wire !. Swap connectors on your electronic boxes nd see if the problem follows. I would be willing to bet you have a broken ower wire to one of your modules and it is connecting intermittently. In any case you could call Ronnie @ South Mississippi Light Aircraft or a ech at Lockwood,LEAF or CPS and ask them about it also. Ronnie solved my roblem . He knows these engines ! Dick Maddux Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________ ________ ime: 07:58:42 AM PST US rom: "Noel Loveys" ubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue I assume you have tested the switch out of the circuit. That certainly ounds to me like a faulty switch. Or possibly some of the insulation worn ff inside the shielding and allowing the P-Lead to short ( turn off the ag) to the shielding. oel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of iquenkelly@aol.com ent: February 11, 2010 1:52 AM ubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Intermittent Ignition Issue he engine quits when one switch is off (grounding the good side). But thi s s intermittent. I'll either get the normal 150-250 rpm drop and recovery r the engine will quit altogether. And this will happen within seconds of ach other if I perform repeated checks. ----Original Message----- rom: riquenkelly@aol.com ent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 11:21 pm ubject: Intermittent Ignition Issue Listers, I am out of ideas. I have a Model IV with a 582 and Ducati ignition. bout 50% of the time my aircraft fails ground check on one side of my gnition. I have checked for every loose connection I can think of. How requently have the brushes on the flywheel failed? Could they be ntermittent? I have replaced the DCI I thought was the failed unit but I' m ot sure how likely it is for a DCI to fire intermittently. oes anyone have any good suggestions? I've checked everything I can think f... hanks for the help, ique Gwin Kitfox Model IV Classic 582 Grey _______________________________ Message 6 ______________________________ _______ ime: 07:58:42 AM PST US rom: "Noel Loveys" ubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition Issue That sounds more than possible to me too oel rom: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631@aol.co m ent: February 11, 2010 9:51 AM ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Intermittent Ignition IssueIntermittent Ignition ssue ique, That is exactly the same thing that happened on my engine ! (see my prio r ist) I ended up replacing the P leads etc trying to find the problem but it nded up being a broken wire !. Swap connectors on your electronic boxes an d ee if the problem follows. I would be willing to bet you have a broken ower wire to one of your modules and it is connecting intermittently. In any case you could call Ronnie @ South Mississippi Light Aircraft or a ech at Lockwood,LEAF or CPS and ask them about it also. Ronnie solved my roblem . He knows these engines ! Dick Maddux Milton,Fl -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Kitfox-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:41 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Ed Gray Engine Mike sez (referring to a Model IV): >I would not shorten up your wings, especially if you are thinking of putting >the IV on floats. Having a short wing reduces your gross weight and does >not give you much in increased top speed but you lose a lot of lift for >takeoff. I cannot speak to the issue of short wings + floats but, on the Model IV, short wings do not affect gross weight. Stall speed (an indirect indicator, I'll admit) was virtually the same on my IV, so I suspect the loss of lift is minimal as well. That said, the longer wing may provide some advantage in ground effect when you are trying to unstick from the water. Ed asks: >I want to make the outer wing bays removable to convert to a >speedster on demand. Has anyone done it... I doubt it is worth the trouble although the implementation would be basically the same as done on the Series 5 "convertibles." >No. THREE What other changes make a speedster wing? Is it only the lower >surface baby ribs to maintain the airfoil of the ribs? The "speedster" wing is set with less dihedral than the standard wing, too. Mike G. N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster Phoenix, AZ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.