---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/07/10: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:52 AM - Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip (dave) 2. 05:44 AM - Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip (Catz631@aol.com) 3. 06:14 AM - Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip (dave) 4. 09:37 AM - Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 (larry huntley) 5. 10:10 AM - Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip (Guy Buchanan) 6. 10:23 AM - Re: Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 (Tex Mantell) 7. 10:35 AM - same old rivet question. (Dave G) 8. 10:40 AM - Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip (Dave G) 9. 12:03 PM - Re: same old rivet question. (Lowell Fitt) 10. 12:24 PM - Re: same old rivet question. (Lynn Matteson) 11. 12:47 PM - Re: same old rivet question. (Dave G) 12. 02:46 PM - Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip (Patrick Reilly) 13. 03:55 PM - Re: same old rivet question. (Roger Standley) 14. 04:00 PM - Re: same old rivet question. (Guy Buchanan) 15. 07:22 PM - Re: Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 (larry huntley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:37 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip From: "dave" Great report and nice job!. So wing tips are all aesthetic it seems. What about soft field and short field takes offs? -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289469#289469 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:12 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip Yodaone, Nice pictures. It helps to see other aircraft and how people do mods. I like your radiator scoop. I have one and was going to install it but it fit horribly. I had to cut and fit, cut and fit. I finally put it back in the box to do another day. I just got my airplane flying again after a month long annual. I ended up replacing all the hoses, gas lines, fuel gauge lines, wrapping the exhausts, new Kuntzleman Magnum strobes(sp),shim the gearbox/replace Bellville(sp) washers,etc. But, I am now flying again and feel better about getting rid of all that old stuff. There is a guy down the street who is selling a Kitfox 4 project for $10000 (no engine/instruments) it has the mount for the 912. Anyway he has two sets of wingtips. I had thought about getting rid of my droop tips and buying the speedster type from him and putting those on but after your report, I think I will keep what I have. I guess my next projects on the plane will be replacing the brake lines with 1/8 inch line. ( I have the line and fittings) My old Matco brakes don't work very well so I will give that a shot and then maybe on to the radiator cowl again. Dick Maddux Fox 4-1200 912UL Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:28 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip From: "dave" Dick, My Matco brakes work very well. Make sure that they slide easily or you lose a good portion of your braking ability. My brakes do not slip but the tires do. I can lock them up on grass and skid them along. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289487#289487 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:24 AM PST US From: "larry huntley" Subject: Kitfox-List: Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 Finally finished the trim on my 4-1200 , Soob, AMAX redrive. Flew it 500hrs all yellow. Sending partly to show Dick my radiator cowl. I have a 3 X 8 X 20 radiator in there. Working now on a muffler. Two straight stacks off an EA-81 Subaru is too loud. Larry Huntley The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Tweety Bird finished 001 Tweety Bird finished 003 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:10 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip At 05:39 AM 3/7/2010, you wrote: >There is a guy down the street who is selling a Kitfox 4 project for >$10000 (no engine/instruments) it has the mount for the 912. Anyway >he has two sets of wingtips. I had thought about getting rid of my >droop tips and buying the speedster type from him and putting those >on but after your report, I think I will keep what I have. Hey, I've got an idea! Why not put one type of wing tip on one wing and the other on the other wing. Then whichever wing rolls up obviously has the better performing wing tip. Pretty scientific, eh? Wat'dya think? :-D Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:24 AM PST US From: "Tex Mantell" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 looks great Larry. Tex ----- Original Message ----- From: larry huntley To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 12:32 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 Finally finished the trim on my 4-1200 , Soob, AMAX redrive. Flew it 500hrs all yellow. Sending partly to show Dick my radiator cowl. I have a 3 X 8 X 20 radiator in there. Working now on a muffler. Two straight stacks off an EA-81 Subaru is too loud. Larry Huntley The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Tweety Bird finished 001 Tweety Bird finished 003 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:37 AM PST US From: "Dave G" Subject: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. Now that (I assume) we have established that the Kitfox is not a high performance slippery aircraft (in the wingtip thread) I have a rivet question. I have to rivet the rear of a flaperon, and I have no dimpler. I am tempted to used regular old domed 3/32 rivets in place of flush mounted ones. Can anyone think of any reason why this is not a reasonable option. I cannot imagine any reason we require flush mounted rivets. Dave Goddard KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:13 AM PST US From: "Dave G" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip I suppose it would be but I would guess you might never notice. On the other hand the droopy style is ugly every minute of every day for those who dislike it. I am solidly in that group. I delayed installing them, I trial fitted them a dozen times and finally accepted that installing them would be a huge error for me. I think they are awful. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 2:02 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip > > At 05:39 AM 3/7/2010, you wrote: >>There is a guy down the street who is selling a Kitfox 4 project for >>$10000 (no engine/instruments) it has the mount for the 912. Anyway he has >>two sets of wingtips. I had thought about getting rid of my droop tips and >>buying the speedster type from him and putting those on but after your >>report, I think I will keep what I have. > > Hey, I've got an idea! Why not put one type of wing tip on one wing and > the other on the other wing. Then whichever wing rolls up obviously has > the better performing wing tip. Pretty scientific, eh? Wat'dya think? :-D > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:38 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. Dave, I realize that what I am about to suggest is heresy, but here goes. Dimpling, in my opinion just cleans up the top visible side of the flapreon with a bigger uglier bump on the bottom. On my first Model IV and the plan on the new one; I simply counter sunk the holes - very carefully - so the flush rivets were almost flush and squeezed them in place. almost flat on the top and less bumby on the bottom. All these rivets are for is to support the glue. I never had one pop through in 900 hours. If you think you might need more strength, just place them a bit closer together. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave G" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. Now that (I assume) we have established that the Kitfox is not a high performance slippery aircraft (in the wingtip thread) I have a rivet question. I have to rivet the rear of a flaperon, and I have no dimpler. I am tempted to used regular old domed 3/32 rivets in place of flush mounted ones. Can anyone think of any reason why this is not a reasonable option. I cannot imagine any reason we require flush mounted rivets. Dave Goddard KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:24 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. .....nor have I, in 870 hours. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 870.7 hrs (since 3-27-2006) Countdown to 1000 hrs~130 to go(139 days to go) Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer) Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter) Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) do not archive On Mar 7, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > Dave, > I never had one pop through in 900 hours. > > Lowell ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:15 PM PST US From: "Dave G" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. I had noticed the clean top ugly bottom myself. I put in one surface mount rivet on a couple of small bits of aluminum and it looked fine to me as it does on the Cessna I rent ( it has more than a few). I will, unless someone puts forward a really good reason why I shouldn't, put a 3/32" non-flush rivet (AN470) every 4" along both the new flaperon and as an add-on to the old one whose glue has separated in many places. It looks like an attempt was made to reglue and it didn't work out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. > > Dave, > > I realize that what I am about to suggest is heresy, but here goes. > Dimpling, in my opinion just cleans up the top visible side of the > flapreon with a bigger uglier bump on the bottom. On my first Model IV > and the plan on the new one; I simply counter sunk the holes - very > carefully - so the flush rivets were almost flush and squeezed them in > place. almost flat on the top and less bumby on the bottom. All these > rivets are for is to support the glue. I never had one pop through in 900 > hours. If you think you might need more strength, just place them a bit > closer together. > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip From: Patrick Reilly Guy, Steve Wittman did exactly that with the Wittman Tailwind wing when he was testing different wing tip designs. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > > At 05:39 AM 3/7/2010, you wrote: > >> There is a guy down the street who is selling a Kitfox 4 project for >> $10000 (no engine/instruments) it has the mount for the 912. Anyway he has >> two sets of wingtips. I had thought about getting rid of my droop tips and >> buying the speedster type from him and putting those on but after your >> report, I think I will keep what I have. >> > > Hey, I've got an idea! Why not put one type of wing tip on one wing and the > other on the other wing. Then whichever wing rolls up obviously has the > better performing wing tip. Pretty scientific, eh? Wat'dya think? :-D > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting > > Do not archive > > -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:20 PM PST US From: "Roger Standley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. When building the RV-10, I learned how the trailing edges are double counter sunk and smooth on both sides. If I was to do the flaperons on the KitFox again, I would probably not counter sink but rather just use a round top 3/32 solid rivet and buck the bottom side a bit hard. It would not be flush but flatter than the pop rivet I originally used. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. > I had noticed the clean top ugly bottom myself. I put in one surface mount rivet on a couple of small bits of aluminum and it looked fine to me as it does on the Cessna I rent ( it has more than a few). I will, unless someone puts forward a really good reason why I shouldn't, put a 3/32" non-flush rivet (AN470) every 4" along both the new flaperon and as an add-on to the old one whose glue has separated in many places. It looks like an attempt was made to reglue and it didn't work out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. > > > Dave, > > I realize that what I am about to suggest is heresy, but here goes. > Dimpling, in my opinion just cleans up the top visible side of the > flapreon with a bigger uglier bump on the bottom. On my first Model IV > and the plan on the new one; I simply counter sunk the holes - very > carefully - so the flush rivets were almost flush and squeezed them in > place. almost flat on the top and less bumby on the bottom. All these > rivets are for is to support the glue. I never had one pop through in 900 > hours. If you think you might need more strength, just place them a bit > closer together. > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:41 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: same old rivet question. At 11:29 AM 3/7/2010, you wrote: >All these rivets are for is to support the glue. I never had one >pop through in 900 hours. If you think you might need more >strength, just place them a bit closer together. Lowell, In the boat business we called these "peel-stoppers". They don't provide any structural strength and are spaced too far apart to clamp the edge during gluing. Rather they're to isolate a failed TE section so you don't end up with flappy flaperon. (A good way to put a glued and busted TE back together is to wick in thin cyanoacrylate.) Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:31 PM PST US From: "larry huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 Thanx Tex. I think I will be out of snow by next weekend. Where are you flying? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Tex Mantell To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 looks great Larry. Tex ----- Original Message ----- From: larry huntley To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 12:32 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Emailing: Tweety Bird finished 001, Tweety Bird finished 003 Finally finished the trim on my 4-1200 , Soob, AMAX redrive. Flew it 500hrs all yellow. Sending partly to show Dick my radiator cowl. I have a 3 X 8 X 20 radiator in there. Working now on a muffler. Two straight stacks off an EA-81 Subaru is too loud. Larry Huntley The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Tweety Bird finished 001 Tweety Bird finished 003 Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/07/10 07:34:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.