Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:29 AM - 912 carb "what-if" question (vetdrem)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Weiss Richard)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Patrick Reilly)
4. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Jose M. Toro)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Lynn Matteson)
6. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Ron Liebmann)
7. 09:17 AM - Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (paul wilson)
8. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Dave G)
9. 10:20 AM - Re: 912 carb "what-if" question (Roger Lee)
10. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Jose M. Toro)
11. 05:32 PM - Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Ken Potter)
12. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Dwight Purdy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 912 carb "what-if" question |
I am getting ready to sync the carbs on my 912, and have been thinking about the
cable set-up. It has the "bell crank" type set up with a cable from each end
going to it's carb, with the carbs springloaded to go full open if the cable
breaks or comes loose. I have a small vibration at idle, that is why I am syncing
them.
I began wondering what would happen if one of the cables from the bell crank to
the carb broke during flight. One carb would go (uncontrollably) to full open,
and the other would be controlled by the throttle. It seems to me that this
would set up a huge out-of-sync condition, and LOTS of vibration. I am sure
that I would throttle back (out of instinct) which would make things even worse.
Now, after thinking through this, I think that I would then open the throttle fully,
hopefully smoothing things out a little, head for an airport, trying to
stay below Vne, and control the engine with the ignition switches.
What am I missing????
Louie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292926#292926
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
Ron,
Great to hear from you and good catch on the strut issue! I trust
retirement is working out. I'm sure John and the Kitfox folks can take
care of your strut needs.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Apr 3, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
<rliebmann@comcast.net>
>
> Good suggestion! I think that is what I may have to do. Thanks,
Ron
>
>
>>
>> Mine were the same way on my Avid. Do yourself a favor and have them
build you a set with the larger tubes so you can put the plastic farings
the newer kitfox's are using on them. They wont hold the water in and
you wont have the rust issues.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric away?
Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube tocheck inside,
?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann <rliebmann@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello Listers,
>
> Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection. I
> decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the
> strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to the point
> that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the metal, primed it well
> with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing edge fairings into
> place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new. Now I am thankful
> that I decided to open the fabric and check things out.
> Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set to sell,
> please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if they are still
> available.
>
> Thanks Much, Happy Easter, Ron N55KF
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
Ron:
I ordered a pair of wing struts for a Kitfox II back in 2007. I sent an old strut
in a wooden crate. John replicated both struts based on the one sent. He
did an outstanding job, as expected. Something I did different this time is
not to use fairings. I want to make sure the struts are corrosion free. Since
a Kitfox II is intended to be a slow, fun machine, skipping the fairings is
not an issue. I agree it is a good idea to get the wider tubes.
Best regards!
Jose Toro
ex Kitfox II owner (still miss it)
________________________________
From: Weiss Richard <MDKitfox@aol.com>
Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 8:50:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts
Ron,
Great to hear from you and good catch on the strut issue! I trust retirement is
working out. I'm sure John and the Kitfox folks can take care of your strut
needs.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Apr 3, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
>
>Good suggestion! I think that is what I may have to do. Thanks, Ron
>
>
>>
>Mine were the same way on my Avid. Do yourself a favor and have them build you
a set with the larger tubes so you can put the plastic farings the newer kitfox's
are using on them. They wont hold the water in and you wont have the rust
issues.
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>http://www.matroni &n - &nbs --> http://www.matronics.com/co================
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
I think the preferred way is to tap along the suspect area with a
hammer, and listen for dull sounds (like when I'm talking. : ) )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 900.1 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
Countdown to 1000 hrs...99.9 to go(111 days to go)
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Apr 4, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric
> away? Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube
> tocheck inside, ?
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann
> <rliebmann@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello Listers,
>
> Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection.
> I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the
> strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to
> the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the
> metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood
> trailing edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts
> looked as good as new. Now I am thankful that I decided to open the
> fabric and check things out.
> Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set
> to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if
> they are still available.
>
> Thanks Much, Happy Easter, Ron N55KF
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://
> forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> --
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford,IL
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
Hi Pat,
Since there was a small cut in the fabric about 1' from the lower attach
point, I thought it wise to open it up for a proper inspection.
The amount of rust that was along the full length of the tubing was
shocking. Apparently the wood fairing held moisture and it went thru the
epoxy that was used. I did use the kit supplied epoxy.
After I cleaned an area of the rust, I did a punch test on it and found
that the tube was still in great shape. A "sounding" test on the tube
gives me the idea that there may not be any rust on the inside. After
the testing of the tube I think that they look much worse than they are.
I fear that there may be many early Kitfox's out there with similar
rust, hidden from view by the fabric.
Ron
Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric
away? Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube
tocheck inside, ?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann <rliebmann@comcast.net>
wrote:
Hello Listers,
Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection. I
decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the
strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to the
point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the metal, primed
it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing edge
fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new.
Now I am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things
out.
Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set to
sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if they
are still available.
Thanks Much, Happy Easter, Ron N55KF
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
Lots of ways to prevent rust on a steel component that will be
covered with a permeable covering. In the auto restoration world this
issue is rampant. Everything from harmless surface rust to eaten away
parts that must be discarded and replaced.
Find a treatment that contains the acid that converts the steel to a
rust proof barrier. The best treatment will be one that leaves a
coating the prevents moisture from reaching the treated surface. Some
experimentation will be required to be sure that the covering
chemicals are compatible with the rust treatment coating. I cannot
remember how the factory powder coat stands up against permeability
to moisture. But based on my real life experience it is a very good
coating. Anyway, a strut is important and any reuse has to be a
correct decision. No need to make a new one stronger than the factory
did but getting it powder coated and making sure it is sealed is the
correct way to go.
Just remember the welding process requires a vent hole in the tube.
Find it and plug it. The rust treatment for inside the tube is always
an option.
So if you did not take precautions like I am discussing then it would
be prudent to strip it and have a look.
Paul
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
The new upgraded ones are certainly available. I opened up the struts on
my model IV in the same manner as you did and found the same thing.
Looked perfect on the outside of the fabric and very rusty inside where
the wood fairings had a gap and underneath the glue.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Liebmann
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 11:25 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts
Hello Listers,
Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection. I
decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the
strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to the
point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the metal, primed
it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing edge
fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new.
Now I am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things
out.
Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set to
sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if they
are still available.
Thanks Much, Happy Easter, Ron N55KF
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 912 carb "what-if" question |
Your not missing anything. Sounds like you have a good grasp on the issue.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292956#292956
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
Ron:=0A=0AI'm not surprised. Mine was worse...by far. Again, I strongly r
ecommend NOT to use a fairing. Like yours, mine had wood fairing.=0A=0AJos
=E9=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ron Liebmann <rlieb
mann@comcast.net>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, April 4, 201
0 11:21:27 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts=0A
=0A=0A =0AHi Pat,=0ASince there was a small cut in the fabric about 1' =0Af
rom the lower attach point, I thought it wise to open it up for a proper
=0Ainspection.=0AThe amount of rust that was along the full length =0Aof th
e tubing was shocking. Apparently the wood fairing held moisture and it =0A
went thru the epoxy that was used. I did use the kit supplied =0Aepoxy.=0AA
fter I cleaned an area of the rust, I did a punch =0Atest on it and found t
hat the tube was still in great shape. A "sounding" test =0Aon the tube giv
es me the idea that there may not be any rust on the inside. =0AAfter the t
esting of the tube I think that they look much worse than they =0Aare.=0AI
fear that there may be many early Kitfox's out =0Athere with similar rust,
hidden from view by the fabric.=0A =0ARon=0A=0ARon, How did you conduct you
r inspection besides cutting the fabric away? =0AWas the rust on the outsid
e of tube or did you cut into tube tocheck inside, =0A ?=0A =0APat Reilly
=0AMod 3 582 Rebuild=0ARockford, IL=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM,
Ron Liebmann <rliebmann@comcast.net> wrote:=0A=0AHello Listers,=0A> =0A>To
day I took my Fox home to begin a thorough =0A> Condition Inspection. I de
cided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect =0A> the=0A>strut tubi
ng. To my great surprise the tubing was =0A> quite rusted to the point tha
t I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the =0A> metal, primed it wel
l with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing =0A> edge fairings
into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new. =0A> Now I
am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things =0A> out.
=0A>Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If =0A> anyone has a new se
t to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory =0A> and see if
they are still available.=0A> =0A>Thanks Much, Happy =0A> Easter, Ro
n N55KF=0A> =0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Kitfox-List=0A>ttp://forums.matronics.com=0A>_blank">http://www.m
atronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0APat =0AReilly=0AMod 3 582 Rebu
ild=0ARockford,IL=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kit
fox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru
ms.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://ww
w.matronics.com/c =0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
Hi folks,
I do a fair bit of failure analysis work with my job as a TSB investigator. The
pictures I see alarm me not from the corrosion, but the pits that I see. Each
of these pits is a stress risor and may be the initiating point for a crack.
With the fairings on you would never see it until the strut failed. I am just
finishing a model II with wood strut fairings. I'm going to fly it for a year
or two and then look into modifications to allow the fairings to be removed
at the annual for inspection.
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292988#292988
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts |
Are the extruded aluminum like are on the Rans too heavy? They were also a
replacement option on the Hawks.
Dwight Purdy
Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 8:31 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts
>
> Hi folks,
> I do a fair bit of failure analysis work with my job as a TSB
> investigator. The pictures I see alarm me not from the corrosion, but the
> pits that I see. Each of these pits is a stress risor and may be the
> initiating point for a crack. With the fairings on you would never see it
> until the strut failed. I am just finishing a model II with wood strut
> fairings. I'm going to fly it for a year or two and then look into
> modifications to allow the fairings to be removed at the annual for
> inspection.
> Cheers
> Ken
>
> --------
> Ken Potter
> Model II, No. 483
> Rotax 582, C-Box,
> 98% Complete
> C-FJKP (marks reserved)
> Lanark, Ontario
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292988#292988
>
>
>
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