---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/04/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:29 AM - 912 carb "what-if" question (vetdrem) 2. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Weiss Richard) 3. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Patrick Reilly) 4. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Jose M. Toro) 5. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Lynn Matteson) 6. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Ron Liebmann) 7. 09:17 AM - Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (paul wilson) 8. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Dave G) 9. 10:20 AM - Re: 912 carb "what-if" question (Roger Lee) 10. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Jose M. Toro) 11. 05:32 PM - Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Ken Potter) 12. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts (Dwight Purdy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:15 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 carb "what-if" question From: "vetdrem" I am getting ready to sync the carbs on my 912, and have been thinking about the cable set-up. It has the "bell crank" type set up with a cable from each end going to it's carb, with the carbs springloaded to go full open if the cable breaks or comes loose. I have a small vibration at idle, that is why I am syncing them. I began wondering what would happen if one of the cables from the bell crank to the carb broke during flight. One carb would go (uncontrollably) to full open, and the other would be controlled by the throttle. It seems to me that this would set up a huge out-of-sync condition, and LOTS of vibration. I am sure that I would throttle back (out of instinct) which would make things even worse. Now, after thinking through this, I think that I would then open the throttle fully, hopefully smoothing things out a little, head for an airport, trying to stay below Vne, and control the engine with the ignition switches. What am I missing???? Louie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292926#292926 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:59 AM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts Ron, Great to hear from you and good catch on the strut issue! I trust retirement is working out. I'm sure John and the Kitfox folks can take care of your strut needs. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL On Apr 3, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote: > > Good suggestion! I think that is what I may have to do. Thanks, Ron > > >> >> Mine were the same way on my Avid. Do yourself a favor and have them build you a set with the larger tubes so you can put the plastic farings the newer kitfox's are using on them. They wont hold the water in and you wont have the rust issues. >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts From: Patrick Reilly Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric away? Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube tocheck inside, ? Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote: > Hello Listers, > > Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection. I > decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the > strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to the point > that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the metal, primed it well > with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing edge fairings into > place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new. Now I am thankful > that I decided to open the fabric and check things out. > Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set to sell, > please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if they are still > available. > > Thanks Much, Happy Easter, Ron N55KF > > > * > > * > > -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:01 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts Ron: I ordered a pair of wing struts for a Kitfox II back in 2007. I sent an old strut in a wooden crate. John replicated both struts based on the one sent. He did an outstanding job, as expected. Something I did different this time is not to use fairings. I want to make sure the struts are corrosion free. Since a Kitfox II is intended to be a slow, fun machine, skipping the fairings is not an issue. I agree it is a good idea to get the wider tubes. Best regards! Jose Toro ex Kitfox II owner (still miss it) ________________________________ From: Weiss Richard Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 8:50:14 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts Ron, Great to hear from you and good catch on the strut issue! I trust retirement is working out. I'm sure John and the Kitfox folks can take care of your strut needs. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL On Apr 3, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote: > >Good suggestion! I think that is what I may have to do. Thanks, Ron > > >> >Mine were the same way on my Avid. Do yourself a favor and have them build you a set with the larger tubes so you can put the plastic farings the newer kitfox's are using on them. They wont hold the water in and you wont have the rust issues. >> > >> > >> >http://www.matroni &n - &nbs --> http://www.matronics.com/co================ >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:44 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts I think the preferred way is to tap along the suspect area with a hammer, and listen for dull sounds (like when I'm talking. : ) ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 900.1 hrs (since 3-27-2006) Countdown to 1000 hrs...99.9 to go(111 days to go) Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer) Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying (and learning) do not archive On Apr 4, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric > away? Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube > tocheck inside, ? > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann > wrote: > Hello Listers, > > Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection. > I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the > strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to > the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the > metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood > trailing edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts > looked as good as new. Now I am thankful that I decided to open the > fabric and check things out. > Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set > to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if > they are still available. > > Thanks Much, Happy Easter, Ron N55KF > > > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp:// > forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford,IL > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:17 AM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts Hi Pat, Since there was a small cut in the fabric about 1' from the lower attach point, I thought it wise to open it up for a proper inspection. The amount of rust that was along the full length of the tubing was shocking. Apparently the wood fairing held moisture and it went thru the epoxy that was used. I did use the kit supplied epoxy. After I cleaned an area of the rust, I did a punch test on it and found that the tube was still in great shape. A "sounding" test on the tube gives me the idea that there may not be any rust on the inside. After the testing of the tube I think that they look much worse than they are. I fear that there may be many early Kitfox's out there with similar rust, hidden from view by the fabric. Ron Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric away? Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube tocheck inside, ? Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote: Hello Listers, Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection. I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new. Now I am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things out. Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if they are still available. Thanks Much, Happy Easter, Ron N55KF arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:12 AM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts Lots of ways to prevent rust on a steel component that will be covered with a permeable covering. In the auto restoration world this issue is rampant. Everything from harmless surface rust to eaten away parts that must be discarded and replaced. Find a treatment that contains the acid that converts the steel to a rust proof barrier. The best treatment will be one that leaves a coating the prevents moisture from reaching the treated surface. Some experimentation will be required to be sure that the covering chemicals are compatible with the rust treatment coating. I cannot remember how the factory powder coat stands up against permeability to moisture. But based on my real life experience it is a very good coating. Anyway, a strut is important and any reuse has to be a correct decision. No need to make a new one stronger than the factory did but getting it powder coated and making sure it is sealed is the correct way to go. Just remember the welding process requires a vent hole in the tube. Find it and plug it. The rust treatment for inside the tube is always an option. So if you did not take precautions like I am discussing then it would be prudent to strip it and have a look. Paul ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:30 AM PST US From: "Dave G" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts The new upgraded ones are certainly available. I opened up the struts on my model IV in the same manner as you did and found the same thing. Looked perfect on the outside of the fabric and very rusty inside where the wood fairings had a gap and underneath the glue. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Liebmann To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 11:25 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts Hello Listers, Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection. I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new. Now I am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things out. Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if they are still available. Thanks Much, Happy Easter, Ron N55KF ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 carb "what-if" question From: "Roger Lee" Your not missing anything. Sounds like you have a good grasp on the issue. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292956#292956 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:19 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts Ron:=0A=0AI'm not surprised. Mine was worse...by far. Again, I strongly r ecommend NOT to use a fairing. Like yours, mine had wood fairing.=0A=0AJos =E9=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ron Liebmann =0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, April 4, 201 0 11:21:27 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts=0A =0A=0A =0AHi Pat,=0ASince there was a small cut in the fabric about 1' =0Af rom the lower attach point, I thought it wise to open it up for a proper =0Ainspection.=0AThe amount of rust that was along the full length =0Aof th e tubing was shocking. Apparently the wood fairing held moisture and it =0A went thru the epoxy that was used. I did use the kit supplied =0Aepoxy.=0AA fter I cleaned an area of the rust, I did a punch =0Atest on it and found t hat the tube was still in great shape. A "sounding" test =0Aon the tube giv es me the idea that there may not be any rust on the inside. =0AAfter the t esting of the tube I think that they look much worse than they =0Aare.=0AI fear that there may be many early Kitfox's out =0Athere with similar rust, hidden from view by the fabric.=0A =0ARon=0A=0ARon, How did you conduct you r inspection besides cutting the fabric away? =0AWas the rust on the outsid e of tube or did you cut into tube tocheck inside, =0A ?=0A =0APat Reilly =0AMod 3 582 Rebuild=0ARockford, IL=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:=0A=0AHello Listers,=0A> =0A>To day I took my Fox home to begin a thorough =0A> Condition Inspection. I de cided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect =0A> the=0A>strut tubi ng. To my great surprise the tubing was =0A> quite rusted to the point tha t I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the =0A> metal, primed it wel l with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing =0A> edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new. =0A> Now I am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things =0A> out. =0A>Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If =0A> anyone has a new se t to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory =0A> and see if they are still available.=0A> =0A>Thanks Much, Happy =0A> Easter, Ro n N55KF=0A> =0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Kitfox-List=0A>ttp://forums.matronics.com=0A>_blank">http://www.m atronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0APat =0AReilly=0AMod 3 582 Rebu ild=0ARockford,IL=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kit fox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru ms.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://ww w.matronics.com/c =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:27 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts From: "Ken Potter" Hi folks, I do a fair bit of failure analysis work with my job as a TSB investigator. The pictures I see alarm me not from the corrosion, but the pits that I see. Each of these pits is a stress risor and may be the initiating point for a crack. With the fairings on you would never see it until the strut failed. I am just finishing a model II with wood strut fairings. I'm going to fly it for a year or two and then look into modifications to allow the fairings to be removed at the annual for inspection. Cheers Ken -------- Ken Potter Model II, No. 483 Rotax 582, C-Box, 98% Complete C-FJKP (marks reserved) Lanark, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292988#292988 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:11 PM PST US From: "Dwight Purdy" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts Are the extruded aluminum like are on the Rans too heavy? They were also a replacement option on the Hawks. Dwight Purdy Model II ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Potter" Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 8:31 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts > > Hi folks, > I do a fair bit of failure analysis work with my job as a TSB > investigator. The pictures I see alarm me not from the corrosion, but the > pits that I see. Each of these pits is a stress risor and may be the > initiating point for a crack. With the fairings on you would never see it > until the strut failed. I am just finishing a model II with wood strut > fairings. I'm going to fly it for a year or two and then look into > modifications to allow the fairings to be removed at the annual for > inspection. > Cheers > Ken > > -------- > Ken Potter > Model II, No. 483 > Rotax 582, C-Box, > 98% Complete > C-FJKP (marks reserved) > Lanark, Ontario > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292988#292988 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.