Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:08 AM - Re: heat shield (Catz631@AOL.COM)
2. 06:35 AM - Re: heat shield (Roger Lee)
3. 09:24 AM - Re: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582 (Guy Buchanan)
4. 10:52 AM - Re: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582 (Mark Napier (napierm))
5. 11:00 AM - Re: after market 582 parts (Mark Napier (napierm))
6. 11:12 AM - Re: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582 (rawheels)
7. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582 (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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Clem,
I have an aluminum exhaust shield on mine also. I too found the area where
there was no shield did get scorched. If you don't have your engine mounted
yet, you could form a nice alum/ss piece to fit the lower firewall. That
fabric material does flake and crack next to the muffler..
Dick Maddux
Fox 4,Milton,Fl
PS: headed to Lakeland this morning, weather looks good, should be a good
show!
Message 2
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If you have stainless exhaust pipes and muffler. You could use header wrap and
take care of the problem. Easy and controls radiated heat much better. You can
pick up a roll at most automotive stores.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293948#293948
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582 |
At 03:43 PM 4/11/2010, you wrote:
>How many people have had issues with the mikuni pulse/vacuum fuel
>pumps not having enough power to pull fuel from the header tank at
>full RPM? And, do a lot of people have an electric pump for
>take-off/back-up purposes?
Ryan,
I have a 582 in a IV with the plastic header tank low behind
the passenger seat. I get about 12 gph flow at the pump inlet (at the
height of the carbs) with about 2 gallons in the wing tanks and the
mains on 10" auto repair ramps. (Conventional gear.) I have 3/8"
aluminum lines to the firewall with the exception of 12" x 3/8" flex
coming out of the wing tanks. I use a very large high-flow auto-race
filter after the header tank. Forward of the firewall I use the 1/4"
blue tube. Check the following:
* Flow rate at the pump inlet. It ought to be at least 6 gph with
fuel in the wings and the mains on blocks. (Takeoff attitude.) If
your flow rate is inadequate there could be a host of problems, all
covered in the archives.
* Weak pulse line. My pulse line is the clear 1/8" wall stuff
which USED to be sold by CPS. Last time I ordered some they sent thin
wall (3/32") tubing so I don't think they carry the thick wall any more.
* Long pulse line. (I think Rotax gives a spec. of 12" for this.
I think mine is about 14".)
* Plugged, missing, or too large vent in the pump inlet side.
This vent is required if the pump is mounted vertical or below the
case pulse outlet. It prevents fuel/oil accumulation on the pulse
side of the pump which will diminish the pump's effectiveness.
Ideally the pump is mounted "face up" above the case pulse outlet so
stuff drains readily back into the engine. My pump has a very small
(.02"?) hole in the brass pulse inlet elbow. Some vertically mounted
pumps have very small holes in the case at the bottom of the pulse
cavity. (If so you must be careful that your pump is not mounted
"upside-down" with the tiny hole at the top.) My pump is mounted
vertically at about the height of the carbs, above the case pulse
outlet. If fluid fills the pump pulse cavity it will become hydraulic
with lots of resistance. If the drain hole is too large then your
pulse will be lost out the hole and pumping action will be
compromised. (Maybe someone with a pump off their bird can tell you
the exact hole diameter. Mine's inaccessible.)
* Wrong main jets. If you have a choke you can open it slightly
at full RPM to see what happens. If your RPM increases you're too
lean. If the engine dogs you're too rich.
* Weak spark at high RPM. Try a mag check at full throttle and
see if you notice a huge RPM drop.
That's all I can think of for now. It should keep you busy for a few
minutes. ;-)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582 |
On mine I used that firm, clear urethane hose that is sold as pulse
line. It's a real pain to get to the barb on the engine so I used a
spring clamp that you can open by squeezing with a pair of needle nose
pliers. At the fuel pump end I secured it using a double loop of safety
wire. The line goes from the engine *up* to the fuel pump on the
firewall and is fairly short.
FWIW,
Mark Napier
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Time: 04:24:05 PM PST US
From: "Dave Fisher" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582
Should be not an issue.
make sure you got the correct impulse line for fuel pump and it secured
tightly and WITHOUT gear clamps.
Tie down run wide open for 3 mins after doing and fuel system testing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rawheels" <rawheels@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 6:43 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582
>
> How many people have had issues with the mikuni pulse/vacuum fuel
pumps
> not having enough power to pull fuel from the header tank at full RPM?
> And, do a lot of people have an electric pump for take-off/back-up
> purposes?
>
> I've been trying to diagnose a fuel flow problem; My engine would
stumble
> after a few moments when at full RPM, but seemed fine at other
settings.
> I have found out that the fuel pump will work fine if you have a gas
can
> plugged in close to the engine, but it just doesn't have quite enough
> power to pull fuel all the way from the header tank @ above 6000 RPM.
I
> tried temporarily installing an electric fuel pump, and the engine
worked
> great. The mikuni pump is fairly new, but I understand it could be
the
> culprit. However, it is a good distance to the header tank, so other
than
> the extra safety, it seems like an electric pump may be warranted to
help
> the vacuum style.
>
> --------
> Ryan Wheeler
> Kitfox IV-1200
> Indianapolis, IN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293884#293884
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: after market 582 parts |
I'll 2nd that on the seals. I used them on my engine and they are fine.
But no need to pay what they want on ebay.
Gaskets: http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/711194.html
I didn't use the crankshaft end seals as the Rotax ones are higher
quality. Also you will still need a couple of parts around the water
pump if you have one of the gray heads with the older seals. Same for
gearbox gasket and seals. But that seal kit will still save you at
least $100.
Note that the sled pistons are single ring and shouldn't be used, but
the Seadoo 580 pistons will work (I ran them in my 582). The issue is
that they are 1/2 step larger than the 582. So the stock 580 pistons
are 5 thou larger than the 582. The 1st 582 oversize is 10 thou larger.
The 1st 580 oversize is 15 thou larger, and so on....
To use them you need a real hone. I bought a Sunnen hone on ebay and
then ordered the stones. I borrowed the bore indicators to get the
clearances right. A course ball hole is used to set the cross hatch
pattern.
After it was all done, between time spent and the money for parts and
tools I would have done just as well to send my cylinders to South
Mississippi and have them put in two new Rotax pistons and hone the
cylinders.
BTW, if anyone needs them I have some of o-rings that are used on the
mag-end starter for the 582/503. The price of these from Rotax is
shameful.
Mark Napier
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Time: 09:01:28 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: after market 582 parts
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
X 2 on the pistons being garbage. They are selling single ring SPI
pistons and
they are junk. Well the piston is OK but the rings are not. We had 2
different
engines we put them in and I had an engine out due to collapsed rings
and
the other engine we caught on take off and aborted as it would not
develop full
RPM after only about 5 hrs run time. That engine was like a turbine as
you
could turn the prop with one finger and barely feel the compression as
you spun
it over.
That being said, I have used the after market Ebay gaskets in 4 engines
and have
not had any issues with the gaskets or seals!
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293767#293767
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582 |
Thanks for the ideas, here are some updates:
- I had tried replacing the pulse line already. Ordered new from LEAF or ACS (can't
remember which).
- Not sure where you (Dave) are talking about for the gear clamps; The assembly
itself is mounted to a bracket on the firewall, but it does have gear clamps
around the tubing at the fittings. Seems like the fittings would create the seal
there and not the clamp, but I'd like more information.
- I'm not sure about the length of the pulse line. I imagine that the pump is
mounted in the same spot that is has been for the last 15 years, but I'll see
if I installed it with any additional "service" length.
- The pump vent is clean. The pump itself is mounted vertically so the vent hole
in the brass fitting is not necessarily pointing straight down. I'd love to
see some examples of other mounting arrangements. High resistance does sound
like a possibility, again though the pump is probably located in the same spot
as it has since aircraft creation unless it is 180 deg out.
- I do not have a fuel flow meter installed. I was making an assumption that
since the electric pump "fixed" the symptom, that it was more of a delivery issue
than a carb/mixture issue. Incorrect?
If the pump is getting weak, is that an indication of a failing pump, or are they
more of a catastrophic failure item? How about the portion of the engine providing
the vacuum? If catastrophic, what back-up systems are you using?
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293983#293983
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump IV-1200 w/ 582 |
At 11:11 AM 4/12/2010, you wrote:
>If the pump is getting weak, is that an indication of a failing
>pump, or are they more of a catastrophic failure item? How about
>the portion of the engine providing the vacuum? If catastrophic,
>what back-up systems are you using?
The pump can definitely get weak, as well as fail catastrophically.
It's just a diaphragm with check valves. The checks can leak, the
diaphragm can leak, you could get foreign substances inside, all
sorts of things. You do rebuild the pump regularly, right? I do mine
yearly. And make sure you get Mikuni parts, not the crap CPS sells.
The after-market gaskets weep fuel copiously.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
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