Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:17 AM - Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 (Tom Jones)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 (Tom Jones)
3. 08:09 AM - Re: Header tank (mikeperkins)
4. 08:19 AM - Re: Header tank (mikeperkins)
5. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Header tank (Pete Christensen)
6. 08:55 AM - Re: Header tank (mikeperkins)
7. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 (Roger Standley)
8. 10:39 AM - Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 (Tom Jones)
9. 07:22 PM - Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 (Mark Donahue)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 |
Jim, my classic 4 kit came with wood ribs for the horizontal stab only. I asked
the old Skystar factory why not the elevator too and he said it would not matter,
that it was mostly just for looks. Being anxious to finish I built it with
the ribs just in the horizontal.
I haven't flown one with the elevator or vertical and rudder air foiled so I can't
comment on their being any difference. Mine does fly straight and smooth.
I seem to remember some chat that if installed by the book the ribs in the horizontal
don't line up with those in the horizontal and that makes it look funny.
You might check that and line them up if you decide to put ribs in the elevator
too.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300800#300800
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| Subject: | Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 |
I got to thinking more about this so went out and looked. My horizontal has only
six wood ribs. They are each positioned with one end in the V formed by the
4130 tubing braces. I think their primary purpose is to brace the opposite
leading/trailing edge to prevent it from bending when the cover is shrunk.
Here's my builder's documentation book photo.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300815#300815
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/horizontal_stab_ribsjpg_130.jpg
Message 3
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If there's no flap-handle stop, it's possible to pull in enough flaps that the
ailerons nearly lock near center. The flap handle is meant to only drop the flaps
about 10 degrees. The flap-handle prevents further travel.
Something like a header tank is never mounted anywhere near a movable control,
say within an inch, in case something slips, and hoses even further away and clamped
down in that region. And as for the instructions and plans of anything
that was optional, they were always taken as mild suggestions.
For example, I remember the plans for the optional cockpit heater kit was written
to place the little heater core on the floor between the rudder pedals; no
way. If they'd had a picture of this in the manual, they'd have seen for themselves
just how silly this location was before they issued the instructions. Also,
they'd change components and never change the instructions. For example, your
header tank might be a bit larger than the one that the instructions were
made for.
Mike Perkins
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300817#300817
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And while I'm telling Kitfox factory stories, I have to mention this one.
Before I covered my airplane, I wanted to install a steel antenna mount in the
fuselage section behind the aft end of the turtle deck. That's when I found out
that the the steel diagonal brace in that fuselage section hadn't been welded
in. It was missing completely from the airframe. The factory was very nice about
compensating me to have a local welder add it.
If there were a point to this, it's that the Denny factory wasn't quite up to ISO9002
standards, and neither were the builder instructions.
Mike Perkins
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300820#300820
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Your right there Mike. My heater core is between the 2 sets of rudder pedals
and there is not much room to move your feet around.
Pete
Kitfox III sn 1000 912 Grove.
> <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>
> If there's no flap-handle stop, it's possible to pull in enough flaps that
> the ailerons nearly lock near center. The flap handle is meant to only
> drop the flaps about 10 degrees. The flap-handle prevents further travel.
>
> Something like a header tank is never mounted anywhere near a movable
> control, say within an inch, in case something slips, and hoses even
> further away and clamped down in that region. And as for the instructions
> and plans of anything that was optional, they were always taken as mild
> suggestions.
>
> For example, I remember the plans for the optional cockpit heater kit was
> written to place the little heater core on the floor between the rudder
> pedals; no way. If they'd had a picture of this in the manual, they'd have
> seen for themselves just how silly this location was before they issued
> the instructions. Also, they'd change components and never change the
> instructions. For example, your header tank might be a bit larger than the
> one that the instructions were made for.
>
> Mike Perkins
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300817#300817
>
>
>
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I wound up putting my heater core forward of the the instrument panel facing down
over the passenger's legs with a fan on top of it. I built a plenum around
the core and used a higher-CFM fan than the one provided, but it still doesn't
push much warm air around. The heat it produces is more of a suggestion of heat
than anything else.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300825#300825
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| Subject: | Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 |
I bought my Model IV 1200 with the optional Speedster tail feather rib
kit in 1993. The HS and elevator ribs line up. The VS and rudder ribs
line up. The Speedster was designed with the VS and rudder as a single
airfoil but I changed that so the VS was one air foil and the rudder was
another airfoil. In consultation with the Skystar factory at that time,
they indicated that the separate VS and rudder airfoils might actually
be a lower drag design, especially if the gap between the VS and rudder
is filled. I believe they used this design on their Model V demonstrator
that I saw at the Watsonville Airshow in the mid 1990"s and is where I
originally had the idea to build mine that way. So Tom, you have flown
in a Model IV with "the elevator AND vertical and rudder air foiled"!
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Jones<mailto:nahsikhs@elltel.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:17 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4
<nahsikhs@elltel.net<mailto:nahsikhs@elltel.net>>
Jim, my classic 4 kit came with wood ribs for the horizontal stab
only. I asked the old Skystar factory why not the elevator too and he
said it would not matter, that it was mostly just for looks. Being
anxious to finish I built it with the ribs just in the horizontal.
I haven't flown one with the elevator or vertical and rudder air
foiled so I can't comment on their being any difference. Mine does fly
straight and smooth.
I seem to remember some chat that if installed by the book the ribs in
the horizontal don't line up with those in the horizontal and that makes
it look funny. You might check that and line them up if you decide to
put ribs in the elevator too.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300800#300800<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300800#300800>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 |
Yes, I guess I have to retract that statement. I have flown in an airfoil tail
kitfox IV. And it is a very nice flying airplane. Blame my memory on the 60s.
Im 60 now.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300839#300839
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: wood ribs on tailfeathers on a Kitfox 4 |
Hi Jim
I think that fairing/streamlining the vertical stab and rudder, aside from
looking much cooler, aids in attached air flow, reduced resistance and, as
Lynn says, reducing "hunting". I liken it to a rudder on a boat that I had,
where the rudder was a flat plate, and at certain speeds it would start
vibrating and hum like heck. I am not suggesting that would happen if you
left the rudder flat, as there are many out there like that, but that having
a foil shape reduces that tendency. I know for a fact, as a naval
architect, that we have streamlined rudders on tugs and similar vessels,
from flat plate design, and the operators can notice performance
improvement.
And as I say, it looks much cooler.
Mark Donahue,
Kitfox 4, 912 ul
(building, very slowly, a rv 9a)
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