Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:25 AM - Re: Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (ctmcdowell@comcast.net)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Pete Christensen)
4. 06:01 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Pete Christensen)
5. 06:12 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (bjones@dmv.com)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Pete Christensen)
7. 06:19 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Marco Menezes)
8. 06:25 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (bjones@dmv.com)
9. 06:25 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Roger Lee)
10. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Pete Christensen)
11. 06:34 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Pete Christensen)
12. 06:35 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Rich L)
13. 06:37 AM - Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline (Pete Christensen)
14. 10:17 AM - alcohol (Ed Gray)
15. 02:28 PM - Re: alcohol (Mark Napier (napierm))
16. 03:50 PM - Re: alcohol (Roger Lee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
I've been flying a Rotax 503 for 10 years now,=C2-using 10% ethanol gasol
ine with no problems. I have a Polyproplene fuel =C2-tank. Aircraft Spruc
e sel'ls the 'Blue' fuel line that is Alcohol resistant. I change these lin
es every year along with the fuel filter.Cheap insurance. =C2-I=C2-fly
between 25 to 50hr a year.=C2-=C2-I also had an authorized =C2-Rotax
mechanic tear the engine down=C2-to inspect the entire engine and to repl
ace ALL organic materials in the engine, Carbs and fuel filter with alcohol
resistant materials. 500hrs and no issues. I also syphon out all the fuel
if it sits in the tank for more than two weeks. Syphoning out the tank allo
ws=C2-all the small particles in the bottom of the tank to be drawn out.
=C2-=C2-
Tom McDowell-NJ
EAA-216=C2-
=C2-=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2010 8:42:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline
Hi Pete,
If you are running a 912 series engine then Rotax has in writing that 10% e
thanol is fine and people use much higher amounts than that around the worl
d. Just bring your fuel system up to par for the ethanol and save yourself
a lot of time and effort. Ethanol won't hurt your 912 Rotax.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304269#304269
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
Pete,
Roger is absolutely correct, the alcohol is fine for your 912 (up to 10
percent) I am assuming the reason you are removing it is because of your
tanks. My tanks are also the old formulation fiberglas coated with Kreem and I
am
also concerned about alcohol. I only have one station here in my area that
carries no ethanol premium. When he goes then I will have to use ethanol
fuel (unless I go to a boat dock or the gas distributor selling fuel for off
road farm equipment... a possibility)
As you are adding avgas to the mix, you are adding back some of the octane
you removed but what are you left with? Do you have the needed 87 for your
engine 87? I know on my engine if I use regular that is a little old I get
kickback on shutdown and the prop rotates backward (no good) Burning premium
or adding octane booster (Lucas brand) will stop this from happening. I now
burn premium in the hot summer months. (plus put a block of ice on the
engine to cool it down for start)
If you have detonation from burning low octane fuel, you will never hear
it, but your engine will certainly feel it.
My two cents
Dick Maddux
Fox 4, 912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
Thanks Roger and Tom, but (older fiberglass tanks) + ethanol = crash. QED
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:42 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> If you are running a 912 series engine then Rotax has in writing that 10%
> ethanol is fine and people use much higher amounts than that around the
> world. Just bring your fuel system up to par for the ethanol and save
> yourself a lot of time and effort. Ethanol won't hurt your 912 Rotax.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304269#304269
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
Dick,
So far I get no kickback. I still have some av gas in the tank but as I
continue to fly I will eventually have clean gasoline. I can't find
clean gas less than 1+ hour away by car at a boat dock. If I had floats
I could taxi right up to the pump since it's only 1/2 hour flying time.
I think Texas government is a bunch of horses asses allowing us to burn
corn instead of sweet Texas crude. Thanks Damn-acrats.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: Catz631@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
Pete,
Roger is absolutely correct, the alcohol is fine for your 912 (up to
10 percent) I am assuming the reason you are removing it is because of
your tanks. My tanks are also the old formulation fiberglas coated with
Kreem and I am also concerned about alcohol. I only have one station
here in my area that carries no ethanol premium. When he goes then I
will have to use ethanol fuel (unless I go to a boat dock or the gas
distributor selling fuel for off road farm equipment... a possibility)
As you are adding avgas to the mix, you are adding back some of the
octane you removed but what are you left with? Do you have the needed 87
for your engine 87? I know on my engine if I use regular that is a
little old I get kickback on shutdown and the prop rotates backward (no
good) Burning premium or adding octane booster (Lucas brand) will stop
this from happening. I now burn premium in the hot summer months. (plus
put a block of ice on the engine to cool it down for start)
If you have detonation from burning low octane fuel, you will never
hear it, but your engine will certainly feel it.
My two cents
Dick Maddux
Fox 4, 912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
Pete,
I found that the ethanol and water that settles out will flow through the
fuel funnels that are supposed to trap water. You might want to try that
with your Funnel.
BJ
N154K
> Good point Marco! Imagine the size of the carboy they use.
>
> Pete
>
> do not archive.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marco Menezes
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>
>
> NOW I understand why ethanol-free gas costs so much more at the
> pump! ;-)
>
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
> Hersey, Michigan
>
> do not archive
>
> --- On Thu, 7/8/10, Pete Christensen
> <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
>
> In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for
> gasoline without ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than
> an hours drive away without any nearby airport. I could load up
> my van with 5-gallon cans, but buying the cans and the cost of
> time and fuel for my van would make that difficult.
>
> I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and
> have corresponded with a few of you online.
>
> Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon
> carboy used for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the
> carboy and marked a line at the top of the water. I then poured
> 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol into the jug. The pouring
> action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation from the mix.
> After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I
> mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of
> cleaned gasoline. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline
> off the top of the water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good
> gas to avoid siphoning up any water. (Note I do NOT pour the out
> this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.) I can continue pouring
> gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all over again.
> After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the
> water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more
> water.
>
> I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel
> Filter Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water.
> (I found no detectable water in the filter after pouring 10
> gallons)
>
> I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
>
> I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than
> an hour with no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
>
> I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing
> what I am doing.
>
> Pete
>
> Kitfox III ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"
> target=_blank>http://www.matronicbsp; -->
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
That's something to think about. I probably need a little off airport
landing practice.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: <bjones@dmv.com>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>
> Pete,
>
> I found that the ethanol and water that settles out will flow through the
> fuel funnels that are supposed to trap water. You might want to try that
> with your Funnel.
>
> BJ
> N154K
>
>> Good point Marco! Imagine the size of the carboy they use.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> do not archive.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marco Menezes
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 11:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>>
>>
>> NOW I understand why ethanol-free gas costs so much more at the
>> pump! ;-)
>>
>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
>> Hersey, Michigan
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> --- On Thu, 7/8/10, Pete Christensen
>> <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
>>
>> In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for
>> gasoline without ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than
>> an hours drive away without any nearby airport. I could load up
>> my van with 5-gallon cans, but buying the cans and the cost of
>> time and fuel for my van would make that difficult.
>>
>> I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and
>> have corresponded with a few of you online.
>>
>> Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon
>> carboy used for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the
>> carboy and marked a line at the top of the water. I then poured
>> 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol into the jug. The pouring
>> action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation from the mix.
>> After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I
>> mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of
>> cleaned gasoline. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline
>> off the top of the water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good
>> gas to avoid siphoning up any water. (Note I do NOT pour the out
>> this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.) I can continue pouring
>> gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all over again.
>> After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the
>> water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more
>> water.
>>
>> I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel
>> Filter Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water.
>> (I found no detectable water in the filter after pouring 10
>> gallons)
>>
>> I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
>>
>> I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than
>> an hour with no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
>>
>> I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing
>> what I am doing.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> Kitfox III ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"
>> target=_blank>http://www.matronicbsp; -->
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Removing ethanol from gasoline |
Doesn't have to make sense, Noel. The government and oil companies are invo
lved.
=C2-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
Hersey, Michigan
=C2-
do not archive
--- On Thu, 7/8/10, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
How=99s that...=C2- Ethanol is added to the gas as it leaves the di
stributor...=C2- It doesn=99t have to be separated... Just not adde
d in the first place.=C2- The ethanol in fact costs more than 4 times the
cost of the gas to grow and process.=C2- That means that gas not contami
nated with ethanol should be considerably cheaper.
=C2-
Noel
=C2-
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: July 8, 2010 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
=C2-
NOW I understand why=C2-ethanol-free gas costs so much more at the pump!
;-)
=C2-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
Hersey, Michigan
=C2-
do not archive
--- On Thu, 7/8/10, Pete Christensen <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com> wrote:
From: Pete Christensen <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
n.rr.com>
Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline without
ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive away without
any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon cans, but buying
the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van would make that difficult
.
I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have corres
ponded with a few of you online.
Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy used
for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked a line at
the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol into
the jug. The pouring action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation fro
m the mix. After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I
mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned gasol
ine. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of the water
/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning up any water
. (Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.) I can c
ontinue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all over aga
in. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the water/et
hanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more water.
I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter Funn
el, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I found no detectable
water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an hour with
no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I am do
ing.
Pete
Kitfox III ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target=_blank>http://w
ww.matronicbsp;=C2---> h==C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2--->
=C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://fo
rums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
Multiple folks with expertise in the commercial fuel science industry that
I spoke with, who would not endorse the process of removing the ethanol
from auto fuel to use the cleaned gas in an aircraft, when pressed, said
that if I started with "cleaned" premium auto fuel and adding less than
25% leaded (100LL) avgas the result would have over 87 octane.
What has been missed in this thread so far, is the potential for settleout
to occur in a planes gas tank. I have had it occur in other applications.
And the engines would not run on the settleout. Probably not a problem in
dry climate from condensation and in planes with gas tank caps that
prevent rain water from getting in.
BJ
N154K
BJ
N154K
> <marwynne@windstream.net>
>
> Did you think of how effected the Octane Rating ? Just a concern. The
> ethanol was add in place of other octane boosters.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pete Christensen" <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 10:43 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>
>
>> <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>>
>> Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
>>
>> In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline
>> without
>> ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive away
>> without
>> any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon cans, but
>> buying
>> the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van would make that
>> difficult.
>>
>> I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have
>> corresponded with a few of you online.
>>
>> Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy
>> used
>> for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked a line
>> at
>> the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol
>> into
>> the jug. The pouring action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation
>> from
>> the mix. After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I
>> mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned
>> gasoline. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of
>> the
>> water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning up
>> any
>> water. (Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.)
>> I
>> can continue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all
>> over
>> again. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the
>> water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more water.
>>
>> I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter
>> Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I found no
>> detectable water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
>>
>> I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
>>
>> I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an hour
>> with
>> no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
>>
>> I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I am
>> doing.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> Kitfox III SN 1000
>>
>> 912
>>
>> Grove
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
Hi All,
My tanks are Kreem Wiessed and that is just fine for alcohol. There are over 1500
Flight Design CT's flying world wide and about 320 here in the states. They
are all kreem Wiess coated. Kreem Weiss is impervious to alcohol and just about
anything else. It is one of the top tank coatings on the market. If you have
a tank you are worried about them Kreem it and don't worry.
p.s.
I never had much luck with MR. Funnel taking water out either. Your Rotax will
burn a certain amount of water in the fuel so long as it doesn't become excessive.
That's why I don't worry about a little water in the fuel or using ethanol.
That said I do live in Tucson, AZ where the humidity is usually only 10-15%
and we only get 12" of rain a year. There are thousands of people who live in
a humid rainy climate with their Rotax's around the world and don't have any
major issues with just humidity.
p.s.s.
Hi Dick,
How are you doing? Hope your staying out of the heat?
Why don't you use 91 oct. all year and not worry?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304312#304312
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
I'll Kreem my tank when I need a recover. Or sooner if you'll come help
Roger.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>
> Hi All,
>
> My tanks are Kreem Wiessed and that is just fine for alcohol. There are
> over 1500 Flight Design CT's flying world wide and about 320 here in the
> states. They are all kreem Wiess coated. Kreem Weiss is impervious to
> alcohol and just about anything else. It is one of the top tank coatings
> on the market. If you have a tank you are worried about them Kreem it and
> don't worry.
>
>
> p.s.
> I never had much luck with MR. Funnel taking water out either. Your Rotax
> will burn a certain amount of water in the fuel so long as it doesn't
> become excessive. That's why I don't worry about a little water in the
> fuel or using ethanol. That said I do live in Tucson, AZ where the
> humidity is usually only 10-15% and we only get 12" of rain a year. There
> are thousands of people who live in a humid rainy climate with their
> Rotax's around the world and don't have any major issues with just
> humidity.
>
>
> p.s.s.
>
> Hi Dick,
> How are you doing? Hope your staying out of the heat?
> Why don't you use 91 oct. all year and not worry?
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304312#304312
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
It's pretty dry here in Austin. Hardly ever over 90% humidity.
Pete
N73BH
----- Original Message -----
From: <bjones@dmv.com>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>
> Multiple folks with expertise in the commercial fuel science industry that
> I spoke with, who would not endorse the process of removing the ethanol
> from auto fuel to use the cleaned gas in an aircraft, when pressed, said
> that if I started with "cleaned" premium auto fuel and adding less than
> 25% leaded (100LL) avgas the result would have over 87 octane.
>
> What has been missed in this thread so far, is the potential for settleout
> to occur in a planes gas tank. I have had it occur in other applications.
> And the engines would not run on the settleout. Probably not a problem in
> dry climate from condensation and in planes with gas tank caps that
> prevent rain water from getting in.
>
> BJ
> N154K
>
> BJ
> N154K
>
>
>> <marwynne@windstream.net>
>>
>> Did you think of how effected the Octane Rating ? Just a concern. The
>> ethanol was add in place of other octane boosters.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pete Christensen" <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 10:43 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>>
>>
>>> <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>>>
>>> Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
>>>
>>> In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline
>>> without
>>> ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive away
>>> without
>>> any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon cans, but
>>> buying
>>> the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van would make that
>>> difficult.
>>>
>>> I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have
>>> corresponded with a few of you online.
>>>
>>> Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy
>>> used
>>> for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked a line
>>> at
>>> the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol
>>> into
>>> the jug. The pouring action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation
>>> from
>>> the mix. After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I
>>> mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned
>>> gasoline. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of
>>> the
>>> water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning up
>>> any
>>> water. (Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.)
>>> I
>>> can continue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all
>>> over
>>> again. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the
>>> water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more water.
>>>
>>> I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter
>>> Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I found no
>>> detectable water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
>>>
>>> I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
>>>
>>> I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an hour
>>> with
>>> no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
>>>
>>> I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I am
>>> doing.
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>> Kitfox III SN 1000
>>>
>>> 912
>>>
>>> Grove
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
Here is a site I hope catches on. I understand boats use these also. I am lucky
to have a couple of stations that sell pure premium nearby. I just used the
sight to find a station near the Arlington Airshow to find fuel.
www.pure-gas.org
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304315#304315
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Removing ethanol from gasoline |
NOBODY in their right mind would endorse what I'm doing. But, think of all
you guys can talk about if I crash. ;>) After all I do fly an
"Experimental".
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: <bjones@dmv.com>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>
> Multiple folks with expertise in the commercial fuel science industry that
> I spoke with, who would not endorse the process of removing the ethanol
> from auto fuel to use the cleaned gas in an aircraft, when pressed, said
> that if I started with "cleaned" premium auto fuel and adding less than
> 25% leaded (100LL) avgas the result would have over 87 octane.
>
> What has been missed in this thread so far, is the potential for settleout
> to occur in a planes gas tank. I have had it occur in other applications.
> And the engines would not run on the settleout. Probably not a problem in
> dry climate from condensation and in planes with gas tank caps that
> prevent rain water from getting in.
>
> BJ
> N154K
>
> BJ
> N154K
>
>
>> <marwynne@windstream.net>
>>
>> Did you think of how effected the Octane Rating ? Just a concern. The
>> ethanol was add in place of other octane boosters.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pete Christensen" <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 10:43 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Removing ethanol from gasoline
>>
>>
>>> <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>>>
>>> Here is my experience with removing ethanol from gasoline.
>>>
>>> In the North Austin, Texas area I have found no source for gasoline
>>> without
>>> ethanol. The nearest I have found is more than an hours drive away
>>> without
>>> any nearby airport. I could load up my van with 5-gallon cans, but
>>> buying
>>> the cans and the cost of time and fuel for my van would make that
>>> difficult.
>>>
>>> I have read everything I can on the subject on the Internet and have
>>> corresponded with a few of you online.
>>>
>>> Here is what I came up with. Last week I bought a 6-1/2 gallon carboy
>>> used
>>> for making beer. I put 1 quart of water in the carboy and marked a line
>>> at
>>> the top of the water. I then poured 5-1/2 gallons of high-test gasohol
>>> into
>>> the jug. The pouring action stimulates the ethanol to begin separation
>>> from
>>> the mix. After awhile the water-ethanol has separated from the mix and I
>>> mark a new line that indicates the new level of the bottom of cleaned
>>> gasoline. I use a siphon to siphon the cleaned gasoline off the top of
>>> the
>>> water/ethanol leaving a gallon or so of good gas to avoid siphoning up
>>> any
>>> water. (Note I do NOT pour the out this gas/water/alcohol from the jug.)
>>> I
>>> can continue pouring gasohol into the carboy and the process starts all
>>> over
>>> again. After a gallon or two of water/ethanol builds up, I siphon the
>>> water/ethanol from the bottom of the jug and add a little more water.
>>>
>>> I pour this cleaned gas into my plane through a Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter
>>> Funnel, which is supposed to remove any remaining water. (I found no
>>> detectable water in the filter after pouring 10 gallons)
>>>
>>> I have run this so far about 50/50 with avgas I had in my tank.
>>>
>>> I have only flown the one time a couple days ago for more than an hour
>>> with
>>> no problems. Time will tell if problems develop.
>>>
>>> I am NOT endorsing this process for others but only describing what I am
>>> doing.
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>> Kitfox III SN 1000
>>>
>>> 912
>>>
>>> Grove
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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As a source on non alcohol fuel, I have a friend in the gasoline business
who tells me the alcohol is injected at the "rack" where the trucks fill up.
If you know a gasoline distributor you can probably buy a drum of no alky
fuel.
Next issue: I am building a '94 Kiftox Mod 4 1200. The fiberglass tanks
are already installed in the wings, (2 five gallon tanks). They are
fiberglass tanks manufactured by Skystar in 1994. The wings are not covered
so I can still slosh them with Kreem or the best product to make them
impervious to alcohol. Should I treat them, and what is the best product to
use? I am going to cut off the outer panel of each wing and make it a
Speedster, with the option to add on the outer wing bays when needed.
I'm looking hard at the "Viking" honda conversion. Anyone who sees it at
Oshkosh please report on it. I won't make it this year.
Ed Gray KII 582 flying, K4 Classic 1200 building, Dallas, do not archive
Message 15
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You'll be hard pressed to get the Kreem to cover all the internal
surfaces well enough to make the tank resistant to alcohol. It's meant
to seal pinholes.
My opinion: if it isn't covered yet, go ahead and put in 2 new 12 gallon
tanks. You won't be sorry.
Conversion engines: I've seen a lot of them over the years. They tend
to be heavy and at their very very best are about as reliable as a
designed for aircraft engine. Be prepared to do a lot of tinkering with
the engine and spending a lot on up front costs that will later "save"
you money on the 1st rebuild.
You should convert about $8000 or less into a good used 80hp Rotax. It
is *much* better performing than any Honda or VW for about the same
price and I'm not even a fan of Rotax.
I got a good deal on a used HKS so that's what I'm going to use.
FWIW,
Mark Napier
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
As a source on non alcohol fuel, I have a friend in the gasoline
business who tells me the alcohol is injected at the "rack" where the
trucks fill up. If you know a gasoline distributor you can probably buy
a drum of no alky fuel.
Next issue: I am building a '94 Kiftox Mod 4 1200. The fiberglass tanks
are already installed in the wings, (2 five gallon tanks). They are
fiberglass tanks manufactured by Skystar in 1994. The wings are not
covered so I can still slosh them with Kreem or the best product to make
them impervious to alcohol. Should I treat them, and what is the best
product to use? I am going to cut off the outer panel of each wing and
make it a Speedster, with the option to add on the outer wing bays when
needed.
I'm looking hard at the "Viking" honda conversion. Anyone who sees it at
Oshkosh please report on it. I won't make it this year.
Ed Gray KII 582 flying, K4 Classic 1200 building, Dallas, do not archive
[quote][b]
Message 16
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Hi Mark,
I think getting Kreem to cover everything is fairly easy. I take entire wings with
internal tanks and coat them. Just need to either pull an individual tank
or the wing. All you do is mix it and rotate the wing or tank. If it is the entire
wing it is a little harder, but works just fine. If it is an individual tank
then it's very easy. It drys hard and is impervious to any thing we will put
in them. It doesn't just coat pin holes it will seal seams, cracks, holes,
patch jobs and fittings. It is fairly thick kind of like a thin epoxy is what
it reminds me off. Flight Design and a few others use it for their entire fleet
and don't have any issues. I also usually apply at least two coats then let
it dry for a week. If this is done right then a fuel tank is leak free. Up to
10% alcohol won't hurt some plastic tanks, but you would have to check on each
one. I used alcohol 91 Oct. in my old Kolb Mark III with plastic tanks for 2.5
years and never had an issue. I used it in my bladder tank for the same plane.
Alcohol under certain concentrations isn't bad on everything. A Rotax engine
can handle any alcohol we get here in the US.
Sometimes I think we all may take somethings and make them a bigger issue than
they really are. When I say that I'm included. I've just learned to do better
research now days over yesteryear.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304362#304362
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