Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Re: rolling kitfox (jlw3@juno.com)
2. 06:57 AM - Electrical Problem (Lyle Persels)
3. 08:44 AM - Re: Electrical Problem (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
4. 08:54 AM - Re: Electrical Problem (Guy Buchanan)
5. 10:34 AM - Re: rolling kitfox (Pete Christensen)
6. 10:56 AM - Re: Electrical Problem (Pete Christensen)
7. 02:21 PM - Re: rolling kitfox (Tom Jones)
8. 02:27 PM - Re: Electrical Problem (Tom Jones)
9. 02:35 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 10/11/10 (Ed Gray)
10. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: rolling kitfox (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
11. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: Electrical Problem (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
12. 06:54 PM - Re: Electrical Problem (Tom Jones)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: rolling kitfox |
Hi Ed
I have a kitfox 1.with a 582
I don't thank your kitfox is strong enough to do aerobatics.
It looks like you war trying to do a barrel roll.
The airplane has a lot of drag and not much weight to carry
it though. you will probably have to use full power to keep up speed.
I thank VNE is 100 mph.
Again PLEASE check with some one that relay knows all about kitfox histo
ry
be for you try it again.
Be carfull Good Luck
Larry kitfox 1 582
Holly Hill, Fla.
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ed Gray" <egraylaw@swbell.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: rolling kitfox
Needing help with roll technique. I decided to try a few rolls in my mo
del 2 with 582, so I put on my parachute, climbed to 5k and tried a few.
I entered at 80 mph with 10 deg. Nose up, put in full left aileron, so
me left rudder, and maintained back pressure. When inverted, the nose d
ropped fast and at 270 deg. I was in a steep dive, so ended up sort of a
split S out of it. Tried it several times with similar results.
What is the best procedure and entry speed and angle for an aileron roll
? Also, anyone have experience with Cuban Eights?
Ed Gray, Dallas KII 582 do not archive
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
=========
____________________________________________________________
blu Electronic Cigarettes
Looks, feels, and tastes real. Enjoy the freedom to smoke anywhere.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cb409281766e230284st05vuc
Message 2
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| Subject: | Electrical Problem |
I'm an old timer on the list who reads the list daily but rarely posts.
I have a Model IV with a 912S. My charging system has apparently
failed. The voltage indicator shows battery voltage, not charging
circuit voltage, regardless of rpm, and the the ammeter indicates a
slight drain where it showed none before this problem arose. The
battery runs down in a relatively short period of operation. The low
voltage causes the electronic tach to read several hundred rpm low. I
find no wiring problem.
I hate to buy a new regulator just to troubleshoot. Can anyone suggest
what the problem(s) might be and how to check?
Lyle Persels
Iowa
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Problem |
Lyle I rarely post myself. The problem could be a bad connection in your
electrical system. Carefully check all connections, especially ground
connections and battery terminal connections.
You don't say in your post what your voltmeter is actually reading. It is
possible you simply have a bad battery (a shorted cell) that is pulling
your alternator/regulator's output down and the bad battery never charges up
to full voltage of 12.5-13.0 volts.
Charge the battery with an external overnight battery charger of 12 watt (1
amp) size. If the battery is up to 12.5 to 13 volts in the morning with
charger removed, it is probably good and the regulator is bad.
Substitute a known good fully charged battery from one of your cars or lawn
tractor and confirm with a voltmeter that the battery voltage is 12.5 - 13
volts. With the engine running, the good substitute battery's voltage
should come up to 13.8 - 14 volts. If not, the alternator/regulator's output
is defective.
Good luck,
John Z.
In a message dated 10/12/2010 9:58:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
lpers@mchsi.com writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com>
I'm an old timer on the list who reads the list daily but rarely posts.
I have a Model IV with a 912S. My charging system has apparently
failed. The voltage indicator shows battery voltage, not charging
circuit voltage, regardless of rpm, and the the ammeter indicates a
slight drain where it showed none before this problem arose. The
battery runs down in a relatively short period of operation. The low
voltage causes the electronic tach to read several hundred rpm low. I
find no wiring problem.
I hate to buy a new regulator just to troubleshoot. Can anyone suggest
what the problem(s) might be and how to check?
Lyle Persels
Iowa
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Problem |
On 10/12/2010 6:48 AM, Lyle Persels wrote:
> I hate to buy a new regulator just to troubleshoot. Can anyone suggest
> what the problem(s) might be and how to check?
Lyle,
There have been failures of the wiring coming out of the PM
alternator. The only diagnostic info I could find on it's output is
|*There is nothing in the Rotax 912 manuals to assist in doing this. I
checked the internal engine coil resistance reading and found it to
be .7-ohms. The DC voltage at the regulator is the same previously
reported (still under 13-volts). Finally I measured AC voltage coming
from the coils. The voltage varied as follows:
Idle (1900-RPM) was 12.8 volts
2500-RPM was 16.0 v
3000-RPM was 19.0 v
4000-RPM was 24.5 v
cruse(5000-RPM)was not measured.
*|
So check your AC output at the input to the voltage regulator and
see if it looks like this. If it does then check your voltage regulator
output. It should be about 13.8 volts at 4000 rpm. If it's not then the
regulator's failed, a relatively common occurrence. You'll get lots of
help and information on these types of problems at the Aeroelectric
Matronics list.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=3
--
*_Guy Buchanan_*
Scoutmaster -- Troop 680
760.809.6145
scoutmaster@troop680.org <mailto:scoutmaster@troop680.org>
www.troop680.org
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: rolling kitfox |
You forgot one step after "entered at 80 mph with 10 deg. Nose up, put
in full left aileron"..You left out the part where you put your head
between your legs and kiss your butt goodby.
Seriously, did you give down elevator when you were approaching inverted?
On 10/12/2010 12:23 AM, Ed Gray wrote:
>
> Needing help with roll technique. I decided to try a few rolls in my
> model 2 with 582, so I put on my parachute, climbed to 5k and tried a
> few. I entered at 80 mph with 10 deg. Nose up, put in full left
> aileron, some left rudder, and maintained back pressure. When
> inverted, the nose dropped fast and at 270 deg. I was in a steep dive,
> so ended up sort of a split S out of it. Tried it several times with
> similar results.
>
> What is the best procedure and entry speed and angle for an aileron
> roll? Also, anyone have experience with Cuban Eights?
>
> Ed Gray, Dallas KII 582 do not archive
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Problem |
My personal experience. I went through all kinds of trouble shooting.
I bought a new regulator. Problem fixed.
Pete
On 10/12/2010 8:48 AM, Lyle Persels wrote:
>
> I'm an old timer on the list who reads the list daily but rarely posts.
>
> I have a Model IV with a 912S. My charging system has apparently failed.
> The voltage indicator shows battery voltage, not charging circuit
> voltage, regardless of rpm, and the the ammeter indicates a slight drain
> where it showed none before this problem arose. The battery runs down in
> a relatively short period of operation. The low voltage causes the
> electronic tach to read several hundred rpm low. I find no wiring problem.
>
> I hate to buy a new regulator just to troubleshoot. Can anyone suggest
> what the problem(s) might be and how to check?
>
> Lyle Persels
> Iowa
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: rolling kitfox |
Mine is a Rotax two stroke. To trouble shoot it when the battery went dead I disconnected
the battery and checked the voltage coming out of the voltage regulator.
It was 1/2 volt DC at all RPM.
I then disconnected the voltage regulator and checked the voltage coming out of
the engine alternator. It was 35 volts AC at 3000 rpm and 70 volts AC at 6000
RPM. Normal according to the engine manual. I then knew it was a bad regulator.
I put on a new Key West regulator. It puts out 14 volts DC at all RPM.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315474#315474
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Problem |
Mine is a Rotax two stroke. To trouble shoot it when the battery went dead I disconnected
the battery and checked the voltage coming out of the voltage regulator.
It was only 1/2 volt DC at all RPM. It should be 13.5 to 14 volts.
I then disconnected the voltage regulator and checked the voltage coming out of
the engine alternator. It was 35 volts AC at 3000 rpm and 70 volts AC at 6000
RPM. Normal according to the engine manual. I then knew it was a bad regulator.
I put on a new Key West regulator. It puts out 14 volts DC at all RPM.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315476#315476
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 10/11/10 |
As an alternative to electric actuators, maybe air actuators will work. I
am installing air cylinders in my muktuk design floats, which were built by
Kasper Naef. Bembo actuators are inexpensive and lighter than electric, and
they provide spring action for the wheels. You only need a small air tank
and a 12 v. compressor or air up on the ground good for numerous cycles.
Bembo can provide any stroke, any force needed, single or double action.
Check the Bembo website.
Ed Gray Dallas KII do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:00 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 10/11/10
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
10-10-11&Archive=Kitfox
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2010-10-11&Archive=Kitfox
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 10/11/10: 12
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:54 AM - Re: Wheel bearing seals (Jeffrey Dill)
2. 06:21 AM - Aerocet 1100 Amphibs (Kitfoxkirk)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: Wheel bearing seals (Tom Jones)
4. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: coolant leak 582 (Dave G)
5. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: coolant leak 582 (Guy Buchanan)
6. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: 582 oil question (Guy Buchanan)
7. 12:27 PM - Re: Wheel bearing seals (icaza francisco)
8. 12:32 PM - IVO prop degrees indicator (icaza francisco)
9. 12:45 PM - Re: IVO prop degrees indicator (akflyer)
10. 12:52 PM - Re: 582 oil question (akflyer)
11. 10:28 PM - rolling kitfox (Ed Gray)
12. 11:09 PM - Re: Aerocet 1100 Amphibs (dholly)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 05:54:54 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wheel bearing seals
From: "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily@comcast.net>
That should do it, thanks! How often do you repack your bearings?
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315324#315324
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 06:21:51 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
From: Kitfoxkirk <aviateer@gmail.com>
Hello Fellow Kitfoxers,
Does anybody know how to get rid of the cables and pulleys in the Aerocet
1100 amphibs and replace with electric motors? I saw out in cyberspace there
were a few people have done it but I could not download pictures or plans.
They stated that with the electrics, they saved a few pounds and it was a
cleaner installation.
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV 912
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 06:38:37 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wheel bearing seals
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Once a year at condition inspection. I had a hard time finding the seals
the first
year so I got two sets then get a set each year so i always have a set on
hand just in case.
Here's a link to the EAA "Hints for Home Builders" shorty video on packing
wheel bearings. The seals shown are different than a kitfox...kitfox are
better...but the rest is good. I didn't know I was supposed to wash my
hands first. http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=86367874001
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315329#315329
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:57:21 AM PST US
From: "Dave G" <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: coolant leak 582
Thanks Bob, went back and sealed all exits from the area and then put a
little lung power into the area, definitely leaking through the shaft seal
and out that hole. Very disappointing to pay a listed repair station for
repairs and have it come back with the cylinders misaligned and the shaft
seal leaking.
Not quite sure what I'll do now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyerbob" <r.wolfejr@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 10:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: coolant leak 582
> <r.wolfejr@worldnet.att.net>
>
> This should be a vent between the outer ceramic seal and
> the enter seal. If it is leaking from there then the ceramic
> outer seal is leaking.
> This space is also provided to vent heat from between the seals.
>
> --------
> Bob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska
> KF Mod I and III
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315297#315297
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 10:15:12 AM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: coolant leak 582
On 10/11/2010 7:55 AM, Dave G wrote:
> Thanks Bob, went back and sealed all exits from the area and then put
> a little lung power into the area, definitely leaking through the
> shaft seal and out that hole. Very disappointing to pay a listed
> repair station for repairs and have it come back with the cylinders
> misaligned and the shaft seal leaking.
>
> Not quite sure what I'll do now.
Fix it yourself. It's worth the education and the knowledge it's done
right. There's plenty of help here and on the Matronics Rotax forum.
--
*_Guy Buchanan_*
Kitfox IV-1200 / 582-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hours?
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 10:26:14 AM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 oil question
On 10/9/2010 8:16 AM, akflyer wrote:
> We are running this oil in several planes here the last few years with no
issues!
>
Leonard and the rest,
Any idea where I can find this oil in the SoCal area or on-line?
Thanks,
--
*_Guy Buchanan
_*Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs?
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 12:27:22 PM PST US
From: icaza francisco <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheel bearing seals
Dear friends,
I=C2=B4ve instaled a new IVO prop in my Kitfox classic IV with a Rotax 912S
. I=C2=B4ve seen complicated the way it operates, checking maniful presure,
RPM, power, etc. I wonder if someone has found a system for IVO as simple
as the Air-plast prop, an indicator of how much degrees the prop has in cer
tain point, or something as a led gradual scale indicator as the trims have
..
I appreciate in advance your opinions,
Francisco Icaza.=C2-
--- El dom 10-oct-10, Jeffrey Dill <1dillfamily@comcast.net> escribi=C3=B3:
De: Jeffrey Dill <1dillfamily@comcast.net>
Asunto: Kitfox-List: Wheel bearing seals
A: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Fecha: domingo, 10 de octubre de 2010, 18:31
Is there another source for the inner wheel bearing seal? I have the standa
rd Douglas wheel with golf cart tire. Various checklists for the annual con
dition inspection include packing the wheel bearings, but to do so on the i
nner bearing requires probably destroying the inner seal. I have purchased
these before from the McBeans, but don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t seem to be
connecting with them.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315289#315289
S WEB FORUMS -
on Web Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 12:32:58 PM PST US
From: icaza francisco <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
Subject: Kitfox-List: IVO prop degrees indicator
Dear friends,
I=B4ve instaled a new IVO prop in my Kitfox classic IV with a Rotax 912S. I
=B4ve seen complicated the way it operates, checking maniful presure, RPM,
power, etc. I wonder if someone has found a system for IVO as simple as the
Air-plast prop, an indicator of how much degrees the prop has in certain p
oint, or something as a led gradual scale indicator as the trims have.
I appreciate in advance your opinions,
Francisco Icaza.-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 12:45:35 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IVO prop degrees indicator
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
an IVO is the simplest prop to set that I have seen on the market. Just
bolt it
on, warm it up, do a static run up and see how many RPM you are turning. If
you are not getting full RPM, crank a little out. If you are over revving,
crank
a little more in. You can tweek it a little bit to get the blades set just
right for take off and cruise after a few flights.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315372#315372
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 12:52:12 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 oil question
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Jim, I cant believe you bought some of the snake oil I promoted ha ha. Just
kidding,
it's a great oil, I just had to make a reference to the snake oil salesman
thing..
Guy,
I would google CITGO and call there customer service and find out if there
is a
store near you, or any bulk petroleum sales outlet that carries it. We dont
have any CITGO stations in our area, and I have to drive 180 miles to get
mine,
but I buy 10+ cases at a time so it makes it well worth it!
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315373#315373
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 10:28:39 PM PST US
From: "Ed Gray" <egraylaw@swbell.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: rolling kitfox
Needing help with roll technique. I decided to try a few rolls in my model
2 with 582, so I put on my parachute, climbed to 5k and tried a few. I
entered at 80 mph with 10 deg. Nose up, put in full left aileron, some left
rudder, and maintained back pressure. When inverted, the nose dropped fast
and at 270 deg. I was in a steep dive, so ended up sort of a split S out of
it. Tried it several times with similar results.
What is the best procedure and entry speed and angle for an aileron roll?
Also, anyone have experience with Cuban Eights?
Ed Gray, Dallas KII 582 do not archive
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 11:09:01 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
From: "dholly" <oue191@yahoo.com>
Ron S was kind enough to share his experience in this thread
(http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=1156&highlight=aerocet).
I have attached the additional details he offered.
--------
-Kitfox III 582 Blue/C Grove Spring / Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
-Airdale Avid+ (project) TD / W.I.B. Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315404#315404
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aerocet_wheel_retract_system_295.pdf
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: rolling kitfox |
Caution doing this! Most voltage regulators require the battery to be in
the circuit for system DC stability. It is very possible to smoke the
voltage regulator and other electronic components on the bus without the
battery's reference supply voltage connected!
John Z.
It is a similar issue with today's highly computerized cars. Never
disconnect the battery from the car's electrical system expecting the car's
alternator/voltage regulator to supply stable power
In a message dated 10/12/2010 5:22:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nahsikhs@elltel.net writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Mine is a Rotax two stroke. To trouble shoot it when the battery went
dead I disconnected the battery and checked the voltage coming out of the
voltage regulator. It was 1/2 volt DC at all RPM.
I then disconnected the voltage regulator and checked the voltage coming
out of the engine alternator. It was 35 volts AC at 3000 rpm and 70 volts
AC at 6000 RPM. Normal according to the engine manual. I then knew it was
a bad regulator.
I put on a new Key West regulator. It puts out 14 volts DC at all RPM.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315474#315474
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Problem |
Caution doing this! Most voltage regulators require the battery to be in
the circuit for system DC stability. It is very possible to smoke the
voltage regulator and other electronic components on the bus without the
battery's reference supply voltage connected!
John Z.
In a message dated 10/12/2010 5:27:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nahsikhs@elltel.net writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Mine is a Rotax two stroke. To trouble shoot it when the battery went dead
I disconnected the battery and checked the voltage coming out of the
voltage regulator. It was only 1/2 volt DC at all RPM. It should be 13.5 to 14
volts.
I then disconnected the voltage regulator and checked the voltage coming
out of the engine alternator. It was 35 volts AC at 3000 rpm and 70 volts AC
at 6000 RPM. Normal according to the engine manual. I then knew it was a
bad regulator.
I put on a new Key West regulator. It puts out 14 volts DC at all RPM.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315476#315476
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Problem |
Okay
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Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315504#315504
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