Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:37 AM - Re: Electrical Problem (Noel Loveys)
2. 07:46 AM - Re: rolling kitfox (Rexinator)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: rolling kitfox (Aerobatics@aol.com)
4. 10:23 AM - Re: rolling kitfox (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Electrical Problem |
Generally when a plane stops charging it is in one of two areas.
First the alternator isn't producing power the easy check is to test the
output with an AC volt meter across the terminals coming from the alternator
to the regulator. I'd be surprised th ofind your alternator isn't working
but it is possible.
The second point of problem is grounding. As was mentioned in the last post
make sure all your ground connections ate shiny clean. To do this means
taking off all the ground straps and cleaning the contact areas and then
reassembling the grounds. What wasn't mentioned is many regulators ground
through the case of the regulator. So don't forget to remove the regulator
from the fire wall and make sure everything is shiny clean under it.
I'm not a betting man but I'll go out on a limb here and bet a whole
bubblegum that is your problem.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KITFOXZ@aol.com
Sent: October 12, 2010 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Electrical Problem
Lyle I rarely post myself. The problem could be a bad connection in your
electrical system. Carefully check all connections, especially ground
connections and battery terminal connections.
You don't say in your post what your voltmeter is actually reading. It is
possible you simply have a bad battery (a shorted cell) that is pulling your
alternator/regulator's output down and the bad battery never charges up to
full voltage of 12.5-13.0 volts.
Charge the battery with an external overnight battery charger of 12 watt (1
amp) size. If the battery is up to 12.5 to 13 volts in the morning with
charger removed, it is probably good and the regulator is bad.
Substitute a known good fully charged battery from one of your cars or lawn
tractor and confirm with a voltmeter that the battery voltage is 12.5 - 13
volts. With the engine running, the good substitute battery's voltage
should come up to 13.8 - 14 volts. If not, the alternator/regulator's
output is defective.
Good luck,
John Z.
In a message dated 10/12/2010 9:58:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
lpers@mchsi.com writes:
I'm an old timer on the list who reads the list daily but rarely posts.
I have a Model IV with a 912S. My charging system has apparently
failed. The voltage indicator shows battery voltage, not charging
circuit voltage, regardless of rpm, and the the ammeter indicates a
slight drain where it showed none before this problem arose. The
battery runs down in a relatively short period of operation. The low
voltage causes the electronic tach to read several hundred rpm low. I
find no wiring problem.
I hate to buy a new regulator just to troubleshoot. Can anyone suggest
what the problem(s) might be and how to check?
Lyle ========================bsp; the ties Day
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: rolling kitfox |
HA HA! Pete and Larry make very good points.
I don't have experience in a Kitfox, but I have would suggest more up
pitch, probably 30 deg. and as Pete says apply down elevator as you roll
inverted to negate the dive input that the back pressure you maintain
will produce when inverted. At the very least make it neutral elevator
as you start the roll. It's always good to try to visualize what the
control surface positions are going to do to your attitude throughout
the manuver. Another refinement would be to think about the rudder input
as you are rolling. If you roll to the left and maintain left rudder
then it will act like down elevator as you pass through the 1st 90 deg.
of roll. To the refine the rudder input during the roll you would want
to input right rudder around that point and to then left again as you
roll through 270 deg. Practice the visualization and physical actions
you must perform while on the ground until you are sure you can execute
those actions in the air correctly. It's a complex dance of coordination
that can probably produce a decent roll with the right timing of feet
and hand movements.
Keep us advised so we know you survived. ;^)
Rexinator
M2, 582
Colorado
On 10/12/2010 11:29 AM, Pete Christensen wrote:
> You forgot one step after "entered at 80 mph with 10 deg. Nose up, put
> in full left aileron"..You left out the part where you put your head
> between your legs and kiss your butt goodby.
>
> Seriously, did you give down elevator when you were approaching inverted?
>
> On 10/12/2010 12:23 AM, Ed Gray wrote:
>>
>> Needing help with roll technique. I decided to try a few rolls in my
>> model 2 with 582, so I put on my parachute, climbed to 5k and tried a
>> few. I entered at 80 mph with 10 deg. Nose up, put in full left
>> aileron, some left rudder, and maintained back pressure. When
>> inverted, the nose dropped fast and at 270 deg. I was in a steep
>> dive, so ended up sort of a split S out of it. Tried it several
>> times with similar results.
>>
>> What is the best procedure and entry speed and angle for an aileron
>> roll? Also, anyone have experience with Cuban Eights?
>>
>> Ed Gray, Dallas KII 582 do not archive
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: rolling kitfox |
A KF 2 is not a 4 .... Id roll a 4 way before a 2 in fact I would not
roll a 2.
Dave
KF 2 582 450 hrs
and I have flown a 2, 3,4 5, 7....
In a message dated 10/13/2010 9:46:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rexinator@gmail.com writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rexinator <rexinator@gmail.com>
HA HA! Pete and Larry make very good points.
I don't have experience in a Kitfox, but I have would suggest more up
pitch, probably 30 deg. and as Pete says apply down elevator as you roll
inverted to negate the dive input that the back pressure you maintain
will produce when inverted. At the very least make it neutral elevator
as you start the roll. It's always good to try to visualize what the
control surface positions are going to do to your attitude throughout
the manuver. Another refinement would be to think about the rudder input
as you are rolling. If you roll to the left and maintain left rudder
then it will act like down elevator as you pass through the 1st 90 deg.
of roll. To the refine the rudder input during the roll you would want
to input right rudder around that point and to then left again as you
roll through 270 deg. Practice the visualization and physical actions
you must perform while on the ground until you are sure you can execute
those actions in the air correctly. It's a complex dance of coordination
that can probably produce a decent roll with the right timing of feet
and hand movements.
Keep us advised so we know you survived. ;^)
Rexinator
M2, 582
Colorado
On 10/12/2010 11:29 AM, Pete Christensen wrote:
> You forgot one step after "entered at 80 mph with 10 deg. Nose up, put
> in full left aileron"..You left out the part where you put your head
> between your legs and kiss your butt goodby.
>
> Seriously, did you give down elevator when you were approaching inverted?
>
> On 10/12/2010 12:23 AM, Ed Gray wrote:
>>
>> Needing help with roll technique. I decided to try a few rolls in my
>> model 2 with 582, so I put on my parachute, climbed to 5k and tried a
>> few. I entered at 80 mph with 10 deg. Nose up, put in full left
>> aileron, some left rudder, and maintained back pressure. When
>> inverted, the nose dropped fast and at 270 deg. I was in a steep
>> dive, so ended up sort of a split S out of it. Tried it several
>> times with similar results.
>>
>> What is the best procedure and entry speed and angle for an aileron
>> roll? Also, anyone have experience with Cuban Eights?
>>
>> Ed Gray, Dallas KII 582 do not archive
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: rolling kitfox |
On 10/13/2010 7:43 AM, Rexinator wrote:
> I don't have experience in a Kitfox, but I have would suggest more up
> pitch, probably 30 deg. and as Pete says apply down elevator as you
> roll inverted to negate the dive input that the back pressure you
> maintain will produce when inverted. At the very least make it neutral
> elevator as you start the roll.
OK, we've got people mixing up aileron rolls with slow rolls. Never do a
slow roll in an aircraft without inverted systems, or at least fuel
injection. As soon as the G's go negative the fan will stop and things
will get real quiet and sweaty. If you push at all when inverted you'll
get that feeling.
An aileron roll is what most people start with. It involves a descent
for speed, an abrupt pull to about a 10-15 degree climb, a very brief
hold at that attitude to make sure you're NOT pulling, then full aileron
deflection with enough rudder to counteract adverse yaw. The controls
are held nearly constant until you roll out level, whereupon the aileron
and rudder are centered, (possibly a little opposite aileron if the roll
rate's fast enough,) and then a pull to level flight. I say nearly
constant because in level flight conventional aircraft run up elevator
for stability. As you roll the up elevator will try to corkscrew the
aircraft because the up elevator's no longer opposed by the weight
forward of the CG because you're no longer level. Therefore, you have to
watch the nose as you roll 90 and push ONLY ENOUGH to keep nose nose of
the aircraft from "climbing" (from your perspective) as you roll. The
aircraft's vertical profile should be wave shaped: up, then down, then
level. You should not experience any negative g's, never less than 0 as
you float over the top.
A slow roll, on the other hand, is where you point the nose straight
ahead and attempt to roll around that point. It involves lots of
manipulations of rudder and elevator to go with full aileron and always
involves -1g in the inverted position. You can combine the two, of
course, but as I said if you pull any negative g's you'll at least want
inverted fuel to keep the engine around to help you complete the maneuver.
A split-S out of a roll is caused by pulling. With elevator in you'll
corkscrew through the air with increasing amplitude as you roll.
--
*_Guy Buchanan_*
Kitfox IV-1200 / 582-C / Warp 3cs / 500? hours
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