Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:24 AM - Re: engine quit due to ethanol (bjones@dmv.com)
2. 07:10 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 10/26/10 (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: engine quit due to ethanol (Pete Christensen)
4. 10:29 AM - Re: engine quit due to ethanol (david van lanen)
5. 11:09 AM - Re: engine quit due to ethanol (Pete Christensen)
6. 09:36 PM - GSC prop torque service bulletin (Jeffrey Dill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: engine quit due to ethanol |
Keep in mind that if you get water in a tank with ethanol blended gas, it
will not show up during sumping. The water is absorbed into the ethanol if
and until a certain concentration occurs then the ethanol and water will
settleout to the bottom together, in a large bolus, that is about one
gallon of settleout in a ten gallon tank of gas.
You can't sump the water out to prevent phase seperation.
BJ
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 10/26/10 |
> The above is simply false information. There is NO information by
Rotax that says
you can not cruise your 912 series engine at less than 5000 RPM. Think
about
it, an engine you were required to run at 5000 RPM or more ( about 75 %
power or more ) all the time would be pretty useless in many sport
airplanes.
Since this issue has come up a lot, and Lowell constantly gives people bad
advice
on this, I took the time to look this up in the Rotax manual and service
bulletins. What Rotax says is to avoid high RPM settings with high
throttle
settings which would lug the engine.. ( This is good advice with any
aviation
engine. ) So you can take Lowell's " I heard an an airshow " advice or
you
can operte your engine according to what Rotax tells publishes<
Mike,if you took a few courses on the Rotax engine vs trashing Lowells
correct information on the engine,that might help. All 3 courses
(Lockwood,MLSA...and Eric Tucker ) I have attended on this engine have stated
very
clearly to keep the rpm @ 5000 rpm or above because that it is where it is
designed to run. It is better for both the engine and the gearbox This IS NOT
a
Lyc or Cont engine so don't compare it as such.
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: engine quit due to ethanol |
Roger,
I have the 80 horse and I wash 93 octane. I have been doing this since
the middle of July with so far no side effects. I went on a long cross
country to Reklaw, TX (Search Youtube for Reklaw) flew around there a
bit so I had about 500 miles round trip and used 20+ gallons of washed
gas on just that trip. Not a hickup. I fly many long cross countries,
some so long that I have to use an occasional bit of 100LL to make it
home. Last month on a trip to Nacagdoches, TX. I put 10 gallons of LL
to make it home to Leander, TX (77T N of Austin). I know that because
you are a Light Sport Repairman, you can't really recommend washing gas,
but, it works for me, so far, and I am careful. I use Sta-Bil in my
washed gas just in case I have to let it sit for a week or two. By the
way, I wash my gas because I have fiberglass tanks in my Kitfox and I
don't want to remove the wings to Kreem them. I probably will have to
do that someday and when I do I will try Kreem. Washing 10 gallons of
gas takes me about 10 minutes because if my "super secret technique" ;>)
(not counting the wait time for the settlement which I don't count
because I have plenty to do elsewhere during that time)
Pete
On 10/26/2010 9:46 PM, Roger Lee wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Lee"<ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>
> Pete,
>
> I see you are running a 912. Is it the UL 80 hp or the ULS 100 hp?
> The washed gas with the 80 hp is ok if you washed 91 oct.at the left over 88
octane, but if you have the ULS 100 hp. You need to add some Avgas to get the
octane back up to 91. If you are washing 87 oct. then it isn't sutible for the
UL either and would need some Avgas to bring it's octane rating back up. Rotax
says no less than a 50/50 mix when trying to raise octane with Avgas from a
low auto fuel octane.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317163#317163
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: engine quit due to ethanol |
I'm a newbie to the ethanol discussion. Could someone define "washing
gasoline" for me?
Thanks,
Dave
Time: 10:23:51 AM PST US
From: Pete Christensen <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine quit due to ethanol
Thanks BJ, That is one reason I wash my gasoline. I hangared in Las
Cruces, NM (where I could get ethanol free gas) before I moved to the
Austin, TX area (where they introduced ethanol starting last fall).
Before I moved, I never found any water when I sumped my tanks. Now I get
water every time I sump. I moved from a dry environment to a wet one AND
lost the availability of ethanol free gas.
Pete
Leander, TX Kitfox III, 912
On 10/26/2010 11:50 AM, bjones@dmv.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: bjones@dmv.com
>
> I have had two engines die because of phase seperation or settle-out
> of water and ethanol from auto gas. It got my attention. Here are a
> couple of take away points.
>
> When a certain amount of water is absorbed by the ethanol in auto gas
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: engine quit due to ethanol |
This is not for the timid nor for rule followers. It is strictly
experimental in nature. I make no claim as to safety but have been
successful since the Middle of July. I have flown 67 hours since I
started washing gas probably 20 or so of that was on other gas at
airports on the way two and from Oshkosh.
Essentially I mix together 1 quart of water and 5 gallons of gasoline.
It is important that these 2 are somehow mixed thoroughly. I use a 6.5
gallon glass carboy. After a half hour or so I am able to siphon the
washed gasoline off the top of the water ethanol mix. The water
attracts and absorbs the ethanol.
Here is what I described explained more thoroughly on a previous post I
made:
" I siphon my unwashed gasoline into the water I have standing in the
bottom of my 6.5 gallon glass carboy by putting the outlet side of the
siphon hose in the standing water so that the gasoline swirls into the
standing water. Having marked the water level on the side of the carboy
before adding gas I am able to judge the quantity of ethanol I have
removed since the level comes up about 3/4" after the mix settles. I
usually let it sit 1/2 hour to be safe. I then siphon washed gas off
the top leaving about 1.25" of gasoline on top of the water so that I
don't siphon up any water with the washed gas. I can wash about 25-30
gallons by just siphoning more unwashed gas into the carboy and don't
have to add any more water with each carboy fill up. Eventually there
is 4 or 5 inches of alcohol/water mix in the bottom of of the carboy so
that only 4 gallons of unwashed gas can be added. When that happens I
siphon the alcohol/water mix off the bottom of the tank being careful
not to siphon any gasoline.
I then start over. There is always some gas and water/alcohol left in
the carboy so that I am not wasting any gasoline. "
Pete
On 10/27/2010 12:25 PM, david van lanen wrote:
>
> I'm a newbie to the ethanol discussion. Could someone define"washing
> gasoline"for me?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> Time: 10:23:51 AM PST US
>
> From: Pete Christensen <pchristensen10@austin.rr.com>
>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine quit due to ethanol
>
>
> Thanks BJ, That is one reason I wash my gasoline. I hangared in Las
> Cruces, NM (where I could get ethanol free gas) before I moved to the
> Austin, TX area (where they introduced ethanol starting last fall).
>
> Before I moved, I never found any water when I sumped my tanks. Now I
> get water every time I sump. I moved from a dry environment to a wet
> one AND lost the availability of ethanol free gas.
>
> Pete
>
> Leander, TX Kitfox III, 912
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | GSC prop torque service bulletin |
I am having to replace a 2 blade - 68" GSC prop because I cannot reach torque without
the hubs coming together. A gap between the hubs is mandated by a 1999
GSC service bulletin. I got this prop from a high school with less than 5 hours
on it. I suppose there is quite a risk that they over-torqued it at some point.
Rick, at GSC said I could mill the hubs if I was sure the prop was never over-torqued,
but I am not. I am sure I torqued it correctly when I installed it,
with a gap in the hub. At condition inspection a year and 20 hours later, the
bolts were loose; and when re-torqued, I could no longer get a feeler gage
between the hubs. I would like to hear speculation about what happened. Has anybody
had the same experience? Torque is supposed to be 75 - 100 inch-lbs; I think
I will torque the new prop on the lower end of that range.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317283#317283
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