Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:40 AM - Re:My Composite console (paul wilson)
2. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Composites and mold work (Noel Loveys)
3. 10:03 AM - Re: Re:My Composite console (Noel Loveys)
4. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: Composites and mold work (Lynn Matteson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re:My Composite console |
FYI,
I made a narrow console for my plane (M-IV). It mounts to the panel
at the throttle holes and to the Al bottom where the flap handle slot is.
Anyway the method I used is a layup over a plug mold and vac bag I
used hardware store styrofoam for the plug and fabric store poly knit
for the resin absorber. I covered the plug with stretchy plastic to
make it easier to remove, but gasoline will disolve the foam and work
just as well. The vac pump was a small household vacuum that was
laying around in my shop.It took 2 tries because the first one was
not narrow enough and my legs felt confined. The vac was left on for
24 hours and I did not do a heat cure (probably a mistake). The rule
is cure to above the temp the product will see in use.
In the pics you see the final glass shell with no filler. The filler
could be applied and sanded smooth. The absorber is poly fabric from
the fabric store and results in a very brissilly surface to allow
great adhesion for more glass or a textured finish. Others probably
would like the finish obtained with filler and paint for a gloosy
finish. Mine will be lightly sanded and a coat rattle can
undercoading and it leaves an orange peal texture on smooth surfaces.
Black only.
I use the epoxy pump system with a proper beam scale I made and
West epoxy with no filler and applied it with a squeege. Turns out
the scale is not needed because the pumps do it exact. Glass cloth
was BID I had laying around from a Longez practice kit. Pretty light
weight cloth. I used 2 payers with a cross ply orientation. The whole
project took 2 days, but the actual work effort was ony a few hours
for each try.
PaulW
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Composites and mold work |
Snip:
I've never given any thought to the pre-pregs...how do you "kick off"
the curing activity? There must be something added to the pre-pregged
cloths, isn't there? That technology just seems a bit out of my
league. : )
Pre-Preg is stored in a freezer. It must be thawed to room temperature
several hours before layup. While thawing is should be kept sealed in tis
envelope to protect it from condensation.
Then it is heat which accelerates the curing to 100%. Because epoxy resins
will allow being added to if done in a specific time it is possible to
return a cured part to layup for additional work if necessary. Generally
though you have enough pot time to allow the lay up in one shot. BTW
composites is not only glass and resin. There is also paper honeycomb,
Aluminium sheeting and honeycomb available for composite work. I'll bet
Burt Rutan's book goes into that too.
With composite layup work cleanliness is, never mind next to godliness, it
is godliness! Dust/dirt is a great enemy. Final trimming and finishing,
especially sanding, should be done in a different location. Commercial
plants have huge clean rooms which actually surpass OR requirements.
If I was going to build a glass plane I think I would contract out the
construction of the flight surfaces. Most of the fuselage I would do
myself. If for no other reason than just to have the parts checked by
ultrasound. Believe me the parts would be lighter and definitely stronger!
I went to the "Cozy girls" site... They are my kind of people... Nuts!
Good nuts though. Their process of lowvac bagging seems to be a good
compromise between true wet layup and vacuum bagging commercially but there
is no way their procedure can expect to be as strong as what is achieved on
a daily basis at a commercial facility. Their two large advantages are they
can make changes to the design on the fly (sorry Pun) and of course the
cost.
Noel
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re:My Composite console |
Nice place to do a wet layup with bagging
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson
Sent: January 24, 2011 11:52 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re:My Composite console
FYI,
I made a narrow console for my plane (M-IV). It mounts to the panel at the
throttle holes and to the Al bottom where the flap handle slot is.
Anyway the method I used is a layup over a plug mold and vac bag I used
hardware store styrofoam for the plug and fabric store poly knit for the
resin absorber. I covered the plug with stretchy plastic to make it easier
to remove, but gasoline will disolve the foam and work just as well. The vac
pump was a small household vacuum that was laying around in my shop.It took
2 tries because the first one was not narrow enough and my legs felt
confined. The vac was left on for
24 hours and I did not do a heat cure (probably a mistake). The rule is
cure to above the temp the product will see in use.
In the pics you see the final glass shell with no filler. The filler could
be applied and sanded smooth. The absorber is poly fabric from the fabric
store and results in a very brissilly surface to allow great adhesion for
more glass or a textured finish. Others probably would like the finish
obtained with filler and paint for a gloosy finish. Mine will be lightly
sanded and a coat rattle can undercoading and it leaves an orange peal
texture on smooth surfaces.
Black only.
I use the epoxy pump system with a proper beam scale I made and West epoxy
with no filler and applied it with a squeege. Turns out the scale is not
needed because the pumps do it exact. Glass cloth was BID I had laying
around from a Longez practice kit. Pretty light weight cloth. I used 2
payers with a cross ply orientation. The whole project took 2 days, but the
actual work effort was ony a few hours for each try.
PaulW
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Composites and mold work |
You mean if I ordered pre-pregs, they would be shipped frozen? Not
bloody likely, mate! Oops, never mind that remark...I just read
where " the material can be shipped...etc, at room temperature, blah,
blah, blah, and cured at up to 310 degrees..." That is a bit too
convoluted for my brain to wrap itself around, so I'll just stick to
plain ol' fiberglass, E-glass, and the more common forms of
'glassing for my simple projects.
By the way, a friend of mine showed me a roll...100 yards...of carbon
fiber, 12k, I think it was.....something in the neighborhood of
$5,000 with shipping?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Sensenich 62"x 55.5 Wood (winter) until the Prince prop arrives
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying...1080+ hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Jan 24, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Snip:
> I've never given any thought to the pre-pregs...how do you "kick off"
> the curing activity? There must be something added to the pre-pregged
> cloths, isn't there? That technology just seems a bit out of my
> league. : )
>
>
> Pre-Preg is stored in a freezer. It must be thawed to room
> temperature
> several hours before layup. While thawing is should be kept sealed
> in tis
> envelope to protect it from condensation.
>
> Then it is heat which accelerates the curing to 100%. Because
> epoxy resins
> will allow being added to if done in a specific time it is possible to
> return a cured part to layup for additional work if necessary.
> Generally
> though you have enough pot time to allow the lay up in one shot. BTW
> composites is not only glass and resin. There is also paper
> honeycomb,
> Aluminium sheeting and honeycomb available for composite work.
> I'll bet
> Burt Rutan's book goes into that too.
>
> With composite layup work cleanliness is, never mind next to
> godliness, it
> is godliness! Dust/dirt is a great enemy. Final trimming and
> finishing,
> especially sanding, should be done in a different location.
> Commercial
> plants have huge clean rooms which actually surpass OR requirements.
>
> If I was going to build a glass plane I think I would contract out the
> construction of the flight surfaces. Most of the fuselage I would do
> myself. If for no other reason than just to have the parts checked by
> ultrasound. Believe me the parts would be lighter and definitely
> stronger!
>
> I went to the "Cozy girls" site... They are my kind of people...
> Nuts!
> Good nuts though. Their process of lowvac bagging seems to be a good
> compromise between true wet layup and vacuum bagging commercially
> but there
> is no way their procedure can expect to be as strong as what is
> achieved on
> a daily basis at a commercial facility. Their two large advantages
> are they
> can make changes to the design on the fly (sorry Pun) and of course
> the
> cost.
>
> Noel
>
>
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