Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: Wood Fairings (n61kf)
2. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Gascolator (Lynn Matteson)
3. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: Gascolator (Noel Loveys)
4. 07:43 AM - Re: Gascolator (mikeperkins)
5. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Gascolator (Patrick Reilly)
6. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Carbon Kitfox Crafters (Patrick Reilly)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: Gascolator (subject change) (sourdostan@aol.com)
8. 11:25 AM - 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (Lynn Matteson)
9. 11:26 AM - 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (Lynn Matteson)
10. 01:27 PM - Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (Tom Jones)
11. 03:34 PM - Battery (Patrick Reilly)
12. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Carbon Kitfox Crafters (Guy Buchanan)
13. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Guy Buchanan)
14. 04:03 PM - Re: Battery (Lynn Matteson)
15. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Lynn Matteson)
16. 04:26 PM - Re: Battery (Patrick Reilly)
17. 04:27 PM - Re: Battery (Lowell Fitt)
18. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Guy Buchanan)
19. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Patrick Reilly)
20. 04:35 PM - Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (John W. Hart)
21. 04:37 PM - Re: Battery (Patrick Reilly)
22. 05:08 PM - Re: Battery (Weiss Richard)
23. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Lynn Matteson)
24. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Lynn Matteson)
25. 05:41 PM - Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (Lynn Matteson)
26. 05:50 PM - Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (Weiss Richard)
27. 06:01 PM - Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (John W. Hart)
28. 06:05 PM - Re: Battery (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
29. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
30. 07:06 PM - Re: Gascolator (subject change) (WurlyBird)
31. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Lynn Matteson)
32. 07:35 PM - Re: Carbon Kitfox Crafters (WurlyBird)
33. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Carbon Kitfox Crafters (Patrick Reilly)
34. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: Gascolator (subject change) (Patrick Reilly)
35. 08:13 PM - Re: Battery (Patrick Reilly)
36. 08:21 PM - Re: Battery (Patrick Reilly)
37. 09:20 PM - Re: Battery (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wood Fairings |
This light weight plastic fairing might be worth looking into. It would have to
be split in order to install on our struts, then foam filled.
http://www.streamline.8k.com/
--------
Keith Schneider
Red Stewart Airfield
Waynesville Ohio
KF IV 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337190#337190
Message 2
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Understood, Noel, but I wasn't advocating mixing a 37 and a 45 in the
same joint....I was merely wondering why did the aircraft industry
adopt the 37=B0 flare, and what is sacred about it?
Obviously, the automotive industry has managed to save a few lives
using a 45=B0 flare for a couple of years in their brake lines. etc.
Not getting any answer that satisfied me, I went looking, and found
this:
*********************
Background
AN stands for "Air Force-Navy Aeronautical Standard" and was an
aviation fitting standard developed around WWII. The fitting featured
a 37 degree mating angle which provided superior sealing compared to
the common 45 degree fittings. The fittings also utilized a higher
class of thread quality. Eventually the AN fittings saw widespread
military use and a multiple manufacturers began producing the
fittings, leading to quality problems. The Joint Industries Council
(JIC), an industry organization, sought to standardize the
specifications on this type of fitting and created the "JIC" fitting
standard, a 37 degree fitting with a slightly lower class of thread
quality than the military AN version. The SAE went on to adopt the
JIC standard as well. As a result JIC or SAE 37 degree fittings are
perfectly interchangeable with AN fittings, and while this may not be
acceptable for military aviation use, for automotive use there is no
downside other than perhaps mismatched color coordination as JIC
fittings are not available in the pretty anodize aluminum colors.
However this may be a worthy tradeoff considering the JIC fittings
are a fraction of the price of their true "AN" counterparts. We mixed
and matched in this article to show you their interchangeability.
3 key facts about AN fittings.
Flare angle is 37=B0, not 45=B0
Interchangeable with JIC fittings
Divide AN # by 16 to get inches
********************
Apparently some testing was done, and it was determined that the 37=B0
flare will hold more pressure than the 45=B0 flare...just how much more
pressure wasn't revealed in what I read, but like a lot of other
things, if it's a "little bit better" then the government/military
will adopt it as gospel.
For myself, I'll accept the fact that the 37 holds more pressure, but
will I ever see the need for that pressure in my homebuilt.....when
the highest pressure in my plane is the brake lines, and they are
made of plastic (nylon)?
Just for the record, I use 37=B0 flares for the *2* fittings in my fuel
system that require them...gravity feed fuel line to the Rotec TBI,
subject to...what?....3 pounds of head pressure?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Apr 16, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Lynn:
>
> 37deg allows more sealing surface for the same outside diameter
> flare. As
> you know it is easy to stretch metal but putting it back is like
> adding an
> inch tot he 2x4 you just cut too short, next to impossible. If you
> put a 45
> deg flare on a 37 deg fitting the flare will have to crumple a bit
> to seat.
> The crumpling will cause it to leak under low pressure. That was
> one of the
> things demonstrated to us in AME school. (AME = Aircraft Maintenance
> Engineer)
>
> Trying to put a 37 degree flare on a 45 degree fitting is almost as
> bad as
> the seat again is reduced inside the fitting.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: April 15, 2011 3:05 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Gascolator
>
>
> Has some rebel out there tried to use a 45=B0 flare on an
> *experimental* aircraft?.....hint: notice the word experimental. I
> realize that if you have an "real" aircraft part with a 37=B0 flare on
> it, you have to match it, but otherwise what is sacred about 37=B0?
> (other than selling us a special tool)
>
> Lynn Matteson
Message 3
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The reason I suspect outside of having more sealing surface, is what you
mentioned about not stretching the tubing as far and therefore not as
susceptible to cracking.
I also noticed the 45 degree pipe flare doesn't use or at least I haven't
seen one use a sleeve inside the B-Nut.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: April 17, 2011 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Gascolator
Understood, Noel, but I wasn't advocating mixing a 37 and a 45 in the same
joint....I was merely wondering why did the aircraft industry adopt the 37
flare, and what is sacred about it?
Obviously, the automotive industry has managed to save a few lives using a
45 flare for a couple of years in their brake lines. etc.
Not getting any answer that satisfied me, I went looking, and found
this:
*********************
Background
AN stands for "Air Force-Navy Aeronautical Standard" and was an aviation
fitting standard developed around WWII. The fitting featured a 37 degree
mating angle which provided superior sealing compared to the common 45
degree fittings. The fittings also utilized a higher class of thread
quality. Eventually the AN fittings saw widespread military use and a
multiple manufacturers began producing the fittings, leading to quality
problems. The Joint Industries Council (JIC), an industry organization,
sought to standardize the specifications on this type of fitting and created
the "JIC" fitting standard, a 37 degree fitting with a slightly lower class
of thread quality than the military AN version. The SAE went on to adopt the
JIC standard as well. As a result JIC or SAE 37 degree fittings are
perfectly interchangeable with AN fittings, and while this may not be
acceptable for military aviation use, for automotive use there is no
downside other than perhaps mismatched color coordination as JIC fittings
are not available in the pretty anodize aluminum colors.
However this may be a worthy tradeoff considering the JIC fittings are a
fraction of the price of their true "AN" counterparts. We mixed and matched
in this article to show you their interchangeability.
3 key facts about AN fittings.
Message 4
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Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools:
$55 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree-AN,2931.html
$40 - http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_a
$16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/B004FEJF2Q
I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the years. Deburr
the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare.
- Mike
Model I w/532
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337207#337207
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Mike, I have 2 cheap 45 degree flaring tools one that will do double flares.
I knew there had to be a similar inexpensive 37 degree tool. Thanks for the
source. I ordered the Great Neck model just to have on hand at that price.
Maybe I should have ordered the double flare model. Any of you guys use a
double flare?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:40 AM, mikeperkins <michael.perkins@rauland.com>wrote:
> michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>
> Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools:
> $55 -
> http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree-AN,2931.html
> $40 -
> http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_a
> $16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/B004FEJF2Q
>
> I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the years.
> Deburr the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare.
>
> - Mike
> Model I w/532
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337207#337207
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Carbon Kitfox Crafters |
James, Yes, that Dow 730 is the best sealer there is that I know of. Sorry
about using UPS at $11 for shipping. I won't use them for such a small
package again, although I do swear by their service. I looked at carbon
fiber cloth on ebay after you mentioned it. There were 200 listings. If you
can't find it there, good luck. What resin do you use on the carbon fiber?
Pat Reilly
On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 5:33 PM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>wrote:
> james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> Honestly Pat, for the best quality on small quantity I have not found
> anything better then Ebay. I have also found very little in the way of
> fabric designs or styles elsewhere that are not on Ebay. And they were just
> weird. I bought that Red and black hybrid cloth a long time ago and just
> got around to really doing layups. Now I can't find that style fabric
> anywhere and I have spent a couple hours looking. Usually if you can't find
> something in that amount of time on the internet you probably wont find it.
> Or if you are like me you will get completely involved in some new
> information you found and end up starting a new project. [Laughing]
>
> By the way the Dow worked great Pat. I did a hang test for 24 hours with
> fuel coming from a height of over 4 feet. I am confident enough to say that
> that is leak proof. Thanks again.
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
> 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,
> now she lies in wait
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337156#337156
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
Any chance you guys could change the subject line when you go on to anothe
r subject? I quit reading about gascolators many posts ago, but decided to
check back in to see where the rag has gone. The subject has evolved a bi
t.
Thanks,
Stan Specht
Lakewood, Colorado
Kitfox IV Speedster
Rotax 912 ul 1750 hrs.
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 17, 2011 9:30 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Gascolator
Mike, I have 2 cheap 45 degree flaring tools one that will do double flare
s. I knew there had to be a similar inexpensive 37 degree tool. Thanks for
the source. I ordered the Great Neck model just to have on hand at that
price. Maybe I should have ordered the double flare model. Any of you guy
s use a double flare?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:40 AM, mikeperkins <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
wrote:
com>
Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools:
$55 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree-AN,293
1.html
$40 - http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/ref=
pd_bxgy_hi_img_a
$16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/B004FEJF2Q
I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the years.
Deburr the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare.
- Mike
Model I w/532
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337207#337======
=================
y Browse, Chat, FAQ,
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http
:====
http://forums.mle, List Admin.
====
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
========================
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========================
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Message 8
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| Subject: | 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
I'm thinking that the sleeve is there for strain relief and vibration
protection, and nothing to do with the flare itself, or the sealing
qualities. In plumbing fittings, at least on gas lines, there are
what are called (locally at least) gas line nuts, which are nuts with
a longer, tapering portion at the back, which seems to be there for
strain relief. It serves the same function, in my mind, as the
sleeves in the AN, MS, and JIC 37 systems.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:20 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> The reason I suspect outside of having more sealing surface, is
> what you
> mentioned about not stretching the tubing as far and therefore not as
> susceptible to cracking.
>
> I also noticed the 45 degree pipe flare doesn't use or at least I
> haven't
> seen one use a sleeve inside the B-Nut.
>
> Noel
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
Mike-
When did this 37.5 degree thing come on board? I visited all three
sites that you mentioned, and I couldn't find any reference to the .
5. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I
don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't
mention 37.5, and I can't find reference to 37.5 in any mention of
flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we
got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide
whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5
tool? : )
Regarding the cheap flaring tools, I once had a 45 flaring tool that
didn't match up well where the two sides of the female clamping
device came together. This would cause a pinch on the tubing, and
leave a slight ridge behind the flare. It never hurt the sealing
surface, or the sealing of the joint, but it always stuck in my craw
that the imperfection was there. It looked like where the two sides
came together, they formed an oval hole, not completely round, and
tightening the clamp would pinch the tubing and deform it...a sure
sign of a cheap tool.
Just for the record, is everybody adhering to what AC 43. 13 says
regarding tube connections: "A double flare is used on soft aluminum
tubing 3/8-inch outside diameter and under, and a single flare on all
other tubing." Hmmmmm?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:40 AM, mikeperkins wrote:
> <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>
> Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools:
> $55 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree-
> AN,2931.html
> $40 - http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/
> ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_a
> $16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/
> B004FEJF2Q
>
> I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the
> years. Deburr the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare.
>
> - Mike
> Model I w/532
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
[Wink] [Wink] [Wink]
> I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I
> don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't
> mention 37.5, and I can't find reference to 37.5 in any mention of
> flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we
> got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide
> whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5
> tool? : )
I'm guilty of posting it as 37.5. I guess I hadn't noticed it is 37 and not 37.5.
The guy in the film said 37 and a half. Must be his fault.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337241#337241
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Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2 hour
with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to charge
for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up to the
battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the battery
about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30 hours
on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to determine
if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak. Also, is a float
charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other
batteries I use them on.
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Carbon Kitfox Crafters |
On 4/16/2011 2:31 PM, WurlyBird wrote:
> The first picture is the fabric I want to use if I can find more of it. I got
this piece off Ebay about 7 years ago and I can not find it anywhere. And that
is what I have been doing wit!
> h composites lately.
>
I like it a lot. I particularly like your use of tooling cloth, it's
much more interesting than the usual plain weave or satin. I'd probably
tone down the gloss, though. (Man, that Kevlar is wild. I've never seen
anything like it.)
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
On 4/17/2011 9:36 AM, sourdostan@aol.com wrote:
> Any chance you guys could change the subject line when you go on to
> another subject? I quit reading about gascolators many posts ago, but
> decided to check back in to see where the rag has gone. The subject
> has evolved a bit.
WHERE THE HECK ARE THE MODERATORS! Asleep again, I guess. Good thing
we've got the participants trained. (Thanks, Stan.)
Guy Buchanan - List moderator
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Message 14
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Pat-
I have a PC 680 Odyssey battery in my plane and it has been in there
since about June 2006. I have never used a float charger, but left
the master on one day, and had to recharge.
I would visit the site for Odyssey batteries, and question them about
the float thing....the Odyssey's are a different breed than your
other batteries, or so I'm led to believe.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Apr 17, 2011, at 6:26 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about
> 1/2 hour with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead
> and had to charge for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a
> float charger hooked up to the battery in the hanger and it never
> fails to start. I purchased the battery about 3 years ago. It sat
> for a year and a half. I have put about 30 hours on the plane in
> the last year and a half. What is the best way to determine if I
> need a new battery or my charging system is weak. Also, is a float
> charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other
> batteries I use them on.
>
> --
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford,IL
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
Who reads the posts based on the title, anyway? I just read
everything (even all of my crap) that comes down the pike, no matter
what the title says. Yes, it's bad form to go off on a tangent, but
this thread has actually stayed closer to subject (flare fittings on
gascolators) than a lot of the centrifugal dalliances I've seen. (pay
no attention to me...I just wanted to use "centrifugal dalliances" in
a sentence....sounds cool, eh?)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 6:44 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
> On 4/17/2011 9:36 AM, sourdostan@aol.com wrote:
>> Any chance you guys could change the subject line when you go on
>> to another subject? I quit reading about gascolators many posts
>> ago, but decided to check back in to see where the rag has gone.
>> The subject has evolved a bit.
>
> WHERE THE HECK ARE THE MODERATORS! Asleep again, I guess. Good
> thing we've got the participants trained. (Thanks, Stan.)
>
> Guy Buchanan - List moderator
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 16
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Lynn, Thanks for the info. I'll give them a call.
Pat
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> Pat-
>
> I have a PC 680 Odyssey battery in my plane and it has been in there since
> about June 2006. I have never used a float charger, but left the master on
> one day, and had to recharge.
> I would visit the site for Odyssey batteries, and question them about the
> float thing....the Odyssey's are a different breed than your other
> batteries, or so I'm led to believe.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
> Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2011, at 6:26 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
>
> Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2
>> hour with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to
>> charge for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up
>> to the battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the
>> battery about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30
>> hours on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to
>> determine if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak. Also, is a
>> float charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other
>> batteries I use them on.
>>
>> --
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford,IL
>>
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 17
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Pat,
I talked to a friend who replaced an Odyssey battery on his Model IV and
gave the old one to his son. The son, cleaned up the contacts and still
has it starting his garden tractor after another three years. It was my
friends opinion, that the contacts can develop corrosion that is not
detectable by simply looking at them. First, and this would be the
advice from Larry, take some emery cloth or some other very fine
abrasive and clean the contacts both on the battery and the cables, then
see what happens.
Lowell
From: Patrick Reilly
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery
Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2
hour with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to
charge for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked
up to the battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased
the battery about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put
about 30 hours on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the
best way to determine if I need a new battery or my charging system is
weak. Also, is a float charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to
help on the other batteries I use them on.
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
On 4/17/2011 4:11 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> (pay no attention to me...I just wanted to use "centrifugal
> dalliances" in a sentence....sounds cool, eh?)
And here I thought it was centripetal dalliances.
Please do not archive
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
Lynn, I was thinking the flared fittings weren't that far from original
gascolator subject myself. But, damn it Lynn, the "centrifical dalliances"
definitely require a new thread. By the way are those certified "centrifical
dalliances" or strictly for expiremental use only? I'm afraid I too read all
these post.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> Who reads the posts based on the title, anyway? I just read everything
> (even all of my crap) that comes down the pike, no matter what the title
> says. Yes, it's bad form to go off on a tangent, but this thread has
> actually stayed closer to subject (flare fittings on gascolators) than a lot
> of the centrifugal dalliances I've seen. (pay no attention to me...I just
> wanted to use "centrifugal dalliances" in a sentence....sounds cool, eh?)
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
> Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
> do not archive
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2011, at 6:44 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> On 4/17/2011 9:36 AM, sourdostan@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Any chance you guys could change the subject line when you go on to
>>> another subject? I quit reading about gascolators many posts ago, but
>>> decided to check back in to see where the rag has gone. The subject has
>>> evolved a bit.
>>>
>>
>> WHERE THE HECK ARE THE MODERATORS! Asleep again, I guess. Good thing we've
>> got the participants trained. (Thanks, Stan.)
>>
>> Guy Buchanan - List moderator
>> Ramona, CA
>> Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
>>
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 20
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| Subject: | 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use anything you
want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does not
apply to
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate,
unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness
certificate for that aircraft; or"
AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory, therefore, you
may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe" by the
FAA.
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator
Mike-
When did this 37.5 degree thing come on board? I visited all three
sites that you mentioned, and I couldn't find any reference to the .
5. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I
don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't
mention 37.5, and I can't find reference to 37.5 in any mention of
flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we
got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide
whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5
tool? : )
Regarding the cheap flaring tools, I once had a 45 flaring tool that
didn't match up well where the two sides of the female clamping
device came together. This would cause a pinch on the tubing, and
leave a slight ridge behind the flare. It never hurt the sealing
surface, or the sealing of the joint, but it always stuck in my craw
that the imperfection was there. It looked like where the two sides
came together, they formed an oval hole, not completely round, and
tightening the clamp would pinch the tubing and deform it...a sure
sign of a cheap tool.
Just for the record, is everybody adhering to what AC 43. 13 says
regarding tube connections: "A double flare is used on soft aluminum
tubing 3/8-inch outside diameter and under, and a single flare on all
other tubing." Hmmmmm?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:40 AM, mikeperkins wrote:
> <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>
> Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools:
> $55 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree-
> AN,2931.html
> $40 - http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/
> ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_a
> $16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/
> B004FEJF2Q
>
> I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the
> years. Deburr the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare.
>
> - Mike
> Model I w/532
>
Message 21
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Lowell, Good advice. You do mean the "terminals" on the battery and cables,
right?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Pat,
>
> I talked to a friend who replaced an Odyssey battery on his Model IV and
> gave the old one to his son. The son, cleaned up the contacts and still has
> it starting his garden tractor after another three years. It was my friends
> opinion, that the contacts can develop corrosion that is not detectable by
> simply looking at them. First, and this would be the advice from Larry,
> take some emery cloth or some other very fine abrasive and clean the
> contacts both on the battery and the cables, then see what happens.
>
> Lowell
>
> *From:* Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 PM
> *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Battery
>
> Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2
> hour with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to
> charge for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up
> to the battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the
> battery about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30
> hours on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to
> determine if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak. Also, is a
> float charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other
> batteries I use them on.
>
> --
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford,IL
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 22
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Pat,
You said the radio and strobes were on. Did that happen to include the
nav lights? Incandescent bulbs really use a lot power. That being
said, I agree that the terminals and cables ought to be checked for
corrosion. On my 912 the charging system couldn't keep the battery up
to to full power with all the electronics and nav lights on. The drain
was slow, but it was noticeable. Changing to LED nav's solved the
problem. The strobes didn't seem to be an issue.
Just my two cents.
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Lowell, Good advice. You do mean the "terminals" on the battery and
cables, right?
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
> Rockford, IL
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Pat,
>
> I talked to a friend who replaced an Odyssey battery on his Model IV
and gave the old one to his son. The son, cleaned up the contacts and
still has it starting his garden tractor after another three years. It
was my friends opinion, that the contacts can develop corrosion that is
not detectable by simply looking at them. First, and this would be the
advice from Larry, take some emery cloth or some other very fine
abrasive and clean the contacts both on the battery and the cables, then
see what happens.
>
> Lowell
>
> From: Patrick Reilly
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery
>
> Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about
1/2 hour with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had
to charge for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger
hooked up to the battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I
purchased the battery about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I
have put about 30 hours on the plane in the last year and a half. What
is the best way to determine if I need a new battery or my charging
system is weak. Also, is a float charger always hooked up a good idea?
It seems to help on the other batteries I use them on.
>
> --
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford,IL
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronh
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> --
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford,IL
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
Dammit, Guy, you just sent me to the dictionary....nope, centripetal
is moving towards the center, which is what Stan was suggesting us
"flare-er's do...in subtle terms. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:32 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> On 4/17/2011 4:11 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> (pay no attention to me...I just wanted to use "centrifugal
>> dalliances" in a sentence....sounds cool, eh?)
>
> And here I thought it was centripetal dalliances.
>
> Please do not archive
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
Pat-
I gotta call you on "centrifical"...sorry, but no such word. Like
most of us, we hear a word and spell it in our minds, and sometimes
hit it on the head, but centrif-u-gal" is the right word, but we
rarely hear it pronounced that way...it usually comes out sounding
like centrifical, like you wrote. (don't mine me, I'm a frustrated
English patient....er, English major, that is)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:32 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Lynn, I was thinking the flared fittings weren't that far from
> original gascolator subject myself. But, damn it Lynn, the
> "centrifical dalliances" definitely require a new thread. By the
> way are those certified "centrifical dalliances" or strictly for
> expiremental use only? I'm afraid I too read all these post.
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
> Rockford, IL
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
Good point, John...."advisory circular"....I sorta thought this was
the Bible of repair, and was treating the info therein as Gospel. I
wonder how many A&P/IA's follow it without question?...just wondering...
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:33 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
> <helili@chahtatushka.net>
>
> Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use
> anything you
> want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does
> not
> apply to
>
> (1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
> certificate,
> unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness
> certificate for that aircraft; or"
>
> AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory,
> therefore, you
> may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe"
> by the
> FAA.
>
> John Hart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:24 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator
>
>
> Mike-
> When did this 37.5 degree thing come on board? I visited all three
> sites that you mentioned, and I couldn't find any reference to the .
> 5. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I
> don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't
> mention 37.5, and I can't find reference to 37.5 in any mention of
> flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we
> got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide
> whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5
> tool? : )
>
> Regarding the cheap flaring tools, I once had a 45 flaring tool that
> didn't match up well where the two sides of the female clamping
> device came together. This would cause a pinch on the tubing, and
> leave a slight ridge behind the flare. It never hurt the sealing
> surface, or the sealing of the joint, but it always stuck in my craw
> that the imperfection was there. It looked like where the two sides
> came together, they formed an oval hole, not completely round, and
> tightening the clamp would pinch the tubing and deform it...a sure
> sign of a cheap tool.
>
> Just for the record, is everybody adhering to what AC 43. 13 says
> regarding tube connections: "A double flare is used on soft aluminum
> tubing 3/8-inch outside diameter and under, and a single flare on all
> other tubing." Hmmmmm?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
> Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:40 AM, mikeperkins wrote:
>
>> <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>>
>> Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools:
>> $55 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree-
>> AN,2931.html
>> $40 - http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/
>> ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_a
>> $16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/
>> B004FEJF2Q
>>
>> I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the
>> years. Deburr the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare.
>>
>> - Mike
>> Model I w/532
>>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
Ha! Although only advisory in nature, doing something different than
what is there is absolutely allowed. But if there is a problem, as
Ricky Ricardo used to say, it will require you do some s'plaining Lucy!
(Usually, that's to your insurance company.)
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Apr 17, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Good point, John...."advisory circular"....I sorta thought this was
the Bible of repair, and was treating the info therein as Gospel. I
wonder how many A&P/IA's follow it without question?...just wondering...
>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
> Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:33 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
>
<helili@chahtatushka.net>
>>
>> Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use anything
you
>> want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does
not
>> apply to=97
>>
>> (1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
certificate,
>> unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of
airworthiness
>> certificate for that aircraft; or"
>>
>> AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory,
therefore, you
>> may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe" by
the
>> FAA.
>>
>> John Hart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:24 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator
>>
>>
>> Mike-
>> When did this 37.5 degree thing come on board? I visited all three
>> sites that you mentioned, and I couldn't find any reference to the .
>> 5. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I
>> don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't
>> mention 37.5=B0, and I can't find reference to 37.5=B0 in any mention
of
>> flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we
>> got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide
>> whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5
>> tool? : )
>>
>> Regarding the cheap flaring tools, I once had a 45=B0 flaring tool
that
>> didn't match up well where the two sides of the female clamping
>> device came together. This would cause a pinch on the tubing, and
>> leave a slight ridge behind the flare. It never hurt the sealing
>> surface, or the sealing of the joint, but it always stuck in my craw
>> that the imperfection was there. It looked like where the two sides
>> came together, they formed an oval hole, not completely round, and
>> tightening the clamp would pinch the tubing and deform it...a sure
>> sign of a cheap tool.
>>
>> Just for the record, is everybody adhering to what AC 43. 13 says
>> regarding tube connections: "A double flare is used on soft aluminum
>> tubing 3/8-inch outside diameter and under, and a single flare on all
>> other tubing." Hmmmmm?
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062
>> Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
>> Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
>>
>>
>> On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:40 AM, mikeperkins wrote:
>>
>>> <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>>>
>>> Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools:
>>> $55 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree-
>>> AN,2931.html
>>> $40 - http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/
>>> ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_a
>>> $16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/
>>> B004FEJF2Q
>>>
>>> I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the
>>> years. Deburr the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare.
>>>
>>> - Mike
>>> Model I w/532
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
Lots of folks do, and that's not all bad, BUT, in the case of
"Experimental/Homebuilt", there's lots of leeway to do what you want. When
I worked for the FAA some years ago, a fellow came in to the FSDO asking
about "an STC to put tundra tires on an experimental". Several of the other
guys in Flight Standards started making all kinds of noise about STC's until
it was pointed out that FAR 43, as well as a few other regs and AC's didn't
apply to the "Experimental/Homebuilt" aircraft. You should have seen the
sheepish looks on their faces.
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator
Good point, John...."advisory circular"....I sorta thought this was
the Bible of repair, and was treating the info therein as Gospel. I
wonder how many A&P/IA's follow it without question?...just wondering...
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:33 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
> <helili@chahtatushka.net>
>
> Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use
> anything you
> want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does
> not
> apply to
>
> (1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
> certificate,
> unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness
> certificate for that aircraft; or"
>
> AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory,
> therefore, you
> may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe"
> by the
> FAA.
>
> John Hart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:24 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator
>
>
> Mike-
> When did this 37.5 degree thing come on board? I visited all three
> sites that you mentioned, and I couldn't find any reference to the .
> 5. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I
> don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't
> mention 37.5, and I can't find reference to 37.5 in any mention of
> flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we
> got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide
> whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5
> tool? : )
>
> Regarding the cheap flaring tools, I once had a 45 flaring tool that
> didn't match up well where the two sides of the female clamping
> device came together. This would cause a pinch on the tubing, and
> leave a slight ridge behind the flare. It never hurt the sealing
> surface, or the sealing of the joint, but it always stuck in my craw
> that the imperfection was there. It looked like where the two sides
> came together, they formed an oval hole, not completely round, and
> tightening the clamp would pinch the tubing and deform it...a sure
> sign of a cheap tool.
>
> Just for the record, is everybody adhering to what AC 43. 13 says
> regarding tube connections: "A double flare is used on soft aluminum
> tubing 3/8-inch outside diameter and under, and a single flare on all
> other tubing." Hmmmmm?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
> Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:40 AM, mikeperkins wrote:
>
>> <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>>
>> Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools:
>> $55 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree-
>> AN,2931.html
>> $40 - http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/
>> ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_a
>> $16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/
>> B004FEJF2Q
>>
>> I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the
>> years. Deburr the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare.
>>
>> - Mike
>> Model I w/532
>>
>
>
Message 28
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On Sun, April 17, 2011 3:26 pm, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2 hour
> with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to charge
> for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up to the
> battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the battery
> about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30 hours
> on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to determine
> if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak.
Charge it until it's reached maximum voltage then run the de-sulfate cycle for
up to a
couple of days then top off the charge and try it. These new batteries damage quickly
when left dead for long periods. Also, discharging them down to less than 1/3 of
maximum also shortens their life. I have a similar situation one of my Corvette's
batteries, left dead for a year. The automatic charger I connected it to, said
"battery fault 02" and that means failed battery. I fooled the charger by turning
the
headlights on and connecting an old fashioned charger in parallel. It then would
charge about 20 minutes and fault code would show. Then I ran the de-sulfate cycle
until a fault code came up in about an hour. Topped off the charge again. Didn't
take
much but was enough to start the car. I went on a two hour drive, came back and
the
desulfate cycle would then run to completion. That battery has been fine for almost
a
month now. One of the key conditions of being able to restore one of these abused
batteries is that it hasn't been run low on fluid. I tried topping off another
one
which was in a big truck in parallel with 4 other huge batteries and it almost
immediately developed a short circuit cell and started the cables smoking. The
battery
was boiled half dry.
Bob Nuckolsof Aero Electric recommends using two small batteries and changing one
out
after a year then alternating every year. So most likely your battery capacity
is
reduced enough to warrant a new one. Keep it charged with a smart charger that
switches off when the desired voltage is reached then starts again when needed.
Don't
use a 'trickle charger'.
> Also, is a float
> charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other
> batteries I use them on.
>
> --
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford,IL
>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
On Sun, April 17, 2011 5:33 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Pat-
> I gotta call you on "centrifical"...sorry, but no such word. Like
> most of us, we hear a word and spell it in our minds, and sometimes
> hit it on the head, but centrif-u-gal" is the right word, but we
> rarely hear it pronounced that way...it usually comes out sounding
> like centrifical, like you wrote. (don't mine me, I'm a frustrated
> English patient....er, English major, that is)
Hey Engrish (my wife's accent) Dude, it's 'mind' not "mine."
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
I don't understand. What does all this have to do with gascolators?
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,
now she lies in wait
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337296#337296
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
Oops! That was a spelling error, not a grammatical error, so I should
be given only a half-point off. And you missed inserting a comma
after 'mind', as in: "it's 'mind', not "mine." Touche.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Sun, April 17, 2011 5:33 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>
>> Pat-
>> I gotta call you on "centrifical"...sorry, but no such word. Like
>> most of us, we hear a word and spell it in our minds, and sometimes
>> hit it on the head, but centrif-u-gal" is the right word, but we
>> rarely hear it pronounced that way...it usually comes out sounding
>> like centrifical, like you wrote. (don't mine me, I'm a frustrated
>> English patient....er, English major, that is)
>
> Hey Engrish (my wife's accent) Dude, it's 'mind' not "mine."
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Carbon Kitfox Crafters |
The resin is HTR-212 laminating resin from Aircraft spruce. I got it because it
is much clearer then other systems. After doing more research, and with my
new found experience, I am going to go with something more structural and less
viscous if I can find it. The 212 is not very viscous but thinner would be better
for reducing voids I think.
As for the gloss. The flash always makes it look worse then it is. I plan to do
a lay up with thin peel ply as the texture to see how this looks. All in all
I don' think the high gloss is too bad. I don't think it could interfere with
the instruments even in direct sunlight. But we will see and the testing will
continue. Posts will continue on the carbon stuff until you all stop reading
it. :D
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,
now she lies in wait
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337299#337299
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carbon Kitfox Crafters |
Wurly, What about West Systems resins?
Pat Reilly
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:33 PM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>wrote:
> james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> The resin is HTR-212 laminating resin from Aircraft spruce. I got it
> because it is much clearer then other systems. After doing more research,
> and with my new found experience, I am going to go with something more
> structural and less viscous if I can find it. The 212 is not very viscous
> but thinner would be better for reducing voids I think.
>
> As for the gloss. The flash always makes it look worse then it is. I plan
> to do a lay up with thin peel ply as the texture to see how this looks. All
> in all I don' think the high gloss is too bad. I don't think it could
> interfere with the instruments even in direct sunlight. But we will see and
> the testing will continue. Posts will continue on the carbon stuff until
> you all stop reading it. :D
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
> 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,
> now she lies in wait
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337299#337299
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator (subject change) |
Wurly, Its the gas lines leading to the gascolator that the original
question related to.
Pat Reilly
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 9:04 PM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>wrote:
> james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> I don't understand. What does all this have to do with gascolators?
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
> 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,
> now she lies in wait
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337296#337296
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 35
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|
Richard, Only the strobes were on with the radio. Shouldn't be enough to
drain the battery if terminals aren't corroded. I don't think the terminals
are corroded. But, I will clean them and put the battery on a charger
tomorrow. And,call Odyssey tomorrow to ask about the float charger I have
been using. I have the AeroFlash nav strobe combo on the wing tips. I'd like
to put LED's in the nav sockets. Someone in the Kitplane mag showed how to
make a multi bulb LED assembly fit up. It looked like alot of work. If I had
all the parts I'd give it a try.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Weiss Richard <MDKitfox@aol.com> wrote:
> Pat,
>
> You said the radio and strobes were on. Did that happen to include the nav
> lights? Incandescent bulbs really use a lot power. That being said, I
> agree that the terminals and cables ought to be checked for corrosion. On
> my 912 the charging system couldn't keep the battery up to to full power
> with all the electronics and nav lights on. The drain was slow, but it was
> noticeable. Changing to LED nav's solved the problem. The strobes didn't
> seem to be an issue.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
> SkyStar S/N 1
> Port Orange, FL
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
>
> Lowell, Good advice. You do mean the "terminals" on the battery and
> cables, right?
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
> Rockford, IL
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
>> Pat,
>>
>> I talked to a friend who replaced an Odyssey battery on his Model IV and
>> gave the old one to his son. The son, cleaned up the contacts and still has
>> it starting his garden tractor after another three years. It was my friends
>> opinion, that the contacts can develop corrosion that is not detectable by
>> simply looking at them. First, and this would be the advice from Larry,
>> take some emery cloth or some other very fine abrasive and clean the
>> contacts both on the battery and the cables, then see what happens.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>> *From:* Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 PM
>> *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Battery
>>
>> Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2
>> hour with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to
>> charge for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up
>> to the battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the
>> battery about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30
>> hours on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to
>> determine if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak. Also, is a
>> float charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other
>> batteries I use them on.
>>
>> --
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford,IL
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford,IL
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 36
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Paul, I am using the Odyssey sealed battery so it can't be low on fluid. I'm
not familiar with the desulfate cycle. I think that applied to the old
standard open acid batteries. My charger doesn't have that and I don't know
if that would work on the Odyssey sealled battery. Hope to learn more from
Odyssey tomorrow. As Lynn said, the Odyssey's are a different animal.
Pat Reilly
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. <paul@eucleides.com>wrote:
> paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Sun, April 17, 2011 3:26 pm, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> > Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2
> hour
> > with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to charge
> > for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up to
> the
> > battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the
> battery
> > about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30
> hours
> > on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to
> determine
> > if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak.
>
> Charge it until it's reached maximum voltage then run the de-sulfate cycle
> for up to a
> couple of days then top off the charge and try it. These new batteries
> damage quickly
> when left dead for long periods. Also, discharging them down to less than
> 1/3 of
> maximum also shortens their life. I have a similar situation one of my
> Corvette's
> batteries, left dead for a year. The automatic charger I connected it to,
> said
> "battery fault 02" and that means failed battery. I fooled the charger by
> turning the
> headlights on and connecting an old fashioned charger in parallel. It then
> would
> charge about 20 minutes and fault code would show. Then I ran the
> de-sulfate cycle
> until a fault code came up in about an hour. Topped off the charge again.
> Didn't take
> much but was enough to start the car. I went on a two hour drive, came back
> and the
> desulfate cycle would then run to completion. That battery has been fine
> for almost a
> month now. One of the key conditions of being able to restore one of these
> abused
> batteries is that it hasn't been run low on fluid. I tried topping off
> another one
> which was in a big truck in parallel with 4 other huge batteries and it
> almost
> immediately developed a short circuit cell and started the cables smoking.
> The battery
> was boiled half dry.
>
> Bob Nuckolsof Aero Electric recommends using two small batteries and
> changing one out
> after a year then alternating every year. So most likely your battery
> capacity is
> reduced enough to warrant a new one. Keep it charged with a smart charger
> that
> switches off when the desired voltage is reached then starts again when
> needed. Don't
> use a 'trickle charger'.
>
>
> > Also, is a float
> > charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other
> > batteries I use them on.
> >
> > --
> > Pat Reilly
> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> > Rockford,IL
> >
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 37
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On Sun, April 17, 2011 8:17 pm, Patrick Reilly wrote:
> Paul, I am using the Odyssey sealed battery so it can't be low on fluid. I'm
> not familiar with the desulfate cycle.
Newer fancier chargers have that feature. Really can extend battery life.
> I think that applied to the old
> standard open acid batteries. My charger doesn't have that and I don't know
> if that would work on the Odyssey sealled battery.
They can get low too. The truck battery I talked about below, had four cells low.
I
pried off a cap (not supposed to be removable) and filled it. It was about half
gone.
It was a sealed battery too. It worked for just a while before it went TU.
> Hope to learn more from
> Odyssey tomorrow. As Lynn said, the Odyssey's are a different animal.
I don't think so. There are only 3 or 4 total count of manufacturers now in the
US.
Just a lot of brand names for the same thing.
>
> Pat Reilly
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. <paul@eucleides.com>wrote:
>
>> paul@eucleides.com>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, April 17, 2011 3:26 pm, Patrick Reilly wrote:
>> > Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2
>> hour
>> > with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to charge
>> > for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up to
>> the
>> > battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the
>> battery
>> > about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30
>> hours
>> > on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to
>> determine
>> > if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak.
>>
>> Charge it until it's reached maximum voltage then run the de-sulfate cycle
>> for up to a
>> couple of days then top off the charge and try it. These new batteries
>> damage quickly
>> when left dead for long periods. Also, discharging them down to less than
>> 1/3 of
>> maximum also shortens their life. I have a similar situation one of my
>> Corvette's
>> batteries, left dead for a year. The automatic charger I connected it to,
>> said
>> "battery fault 02" and that means failed battery. I fooled the charger by
>> turning the
>> headlights on and connecting an old fashioned charger in parallel. It then
>> would
>> charge about 20 minutes and fault code would show. Then I ran the
>> de-sulfate cycle
>> until a fault code came up in about an hour. Topped off the charge again.
>> Didn't take
>> much but was enough to start the car. I went on a two hour drive, came back
>> and the
>> desulfate cycle would then run to completion. That battery has been fine
>> for almost a
>> month now. One of the key conditions of being able to restore one of these
>> abused
>> batteries is that it hasn't been run low on fluid. I tried topping off
>> another one
>> which was in a big truck in parallel with 4 other huge batteries and it
>> almost
>> immediately developed a short circuit cell and started the cables smoking.
>> The battery
>> was boiled half dry.
>>
>> Bob Nuckolsof Aero Electric recommends using two small batteries and
>> changing one out
>> after a year then alternating every year. So most likely your battery
>> capacity is
>> reduced enough to warrant a new one. Keep it charged with a smart charger
>> that
>> switches off when the desired voltage is reached then starts again when
>> needed. Don't
>> use a 'trickle charger'.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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