---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/18/11: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:06 AM - Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (John W. Hart) 2. 09:11 AM - Re: Battery (Lowell Fitt) 3. 09:22 AM - Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator (Lynn Matteson) 4. 01:45 PM - Re: Battery (Patrick Reilly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:40 AM PST US From: "John W. Hart" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator I DON=94T have an insurance company for my airplane, John Hart From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weiss Richard Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:48 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator Ha! Although only advisory in nature, doing something different than what is there is absolutely allowed. But if there is a problem, as Ricky Ricardo used to say, it will require you do some s'plaining Lucy! (Usually, that's to your insurance company.) Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL On Apr 17, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: Good point, John...."advisory circular"....I sorta thought this was the Bible of repair, and was treating the info therein as Gospel. I wonder how many A&P/IA's follow it without question?...just wondering... Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062 Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip) Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm) Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006) do not archive On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:33 PM, John W. Hart wrote: Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use anything you want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does not apply to=97 (1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft; or" AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory, therefore, you may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe" by the FAA. John Hart -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:24 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator Mike- When did this 37.5 degree thing come on board? I visited all three sites that you mentioned, and I couldn't find any reference to the . 5. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't mention 37.5=B0, and I can't find reference to 37.5=B0 in any mention of flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5 tool? : ) Regarding the cheap flaring tools, I once had a 45=B0 flaring tool that didn't match up well where the two sides of the female clamping device came together. This would cause a pinch on the tubing, and leave a slight ridge behind the flare. It never hurt the sealing surface, or the sealing of the joint, but it always stuck in my craw that the imperfection was there. It looked like where the two sides came together, they formed an oval hole, not completely round, and tightening the clamp would pinch the tubing and deform it...a sure sign of a cheap tool. Just for the record, is everybody adhering to what AC 43. 13 says regarding tube connections: "A double flare is used on soft aluminum tubing 3/8-inch outside diameter and under, and a single flare on all other tubing." Hmmmmm? Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062 Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip) Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm) Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006) On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:40 AM, mikeperkins wrote: Here are some inexpensive 37.5 degree flaring tools: $55 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Standard-Flaring-Tool-37-Degree- AN,2931.html $40 - http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23332-Flaring-Tool/dp/B000X4K9KO/ ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_a $16 - http://www.amazon.com/Great-Neck-Degree-Flaring-Tool/dp/ B004FEJF2Q I have one similar to the $16 version and it's worked well over the years. Deburr the tubing end, apply a little grease, then flare. - Mike Model I w/532 http://www.matroni &n - &nbs --> http://www.matronics.com/co================ Kitfox-List Email Forum - Features Navigator to browse such as List Un/Subscription, Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:03 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Yes, The terminals. He specifically mentioned corrosion that cannot be seen. I think we have all seen the gunk around the terminals on a car battery. I guess the gunk on our aircraft batteries can be a bit more subtle. Regarding the maintenance of the batteries. I am definitely not an expert as my only experience is with the Odyssey on my incomplete project, but the literature suggests that these batteries require a somewhat different approach to maintenance. Lowell From: Patrick Reilly Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:35 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Lowell, Good advice. You do mean the "terminals" on the battery and cables, right? Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuilt Rockford, IL On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: Pat, I talked to a friend who replaced an Odyssey battery on his Model IV and gave the old one to his son. The son, cleaned up the contacts and still has it starting his garden tractor after another three years. It was my friends opinion, that the contacts can develop corrosion that is not detectable by simply looking at them. First, and this would be the advice from Larry, take some emery cloth or some other very fine abrasive and clean the contacts both on the battery and the cables, then see what happens. Lowell From: Patrick Reilly Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 PM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2 hour with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to charge for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up to the battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the battery about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30 hours on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to determine if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak. Also, is a float charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other batteries I use them on. -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:15 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator I visited my EAA chapter today, and looked at our Rigid #377 flaring tool. I read the instruction sheet....if it comes with an instruction sheet, it's probably a pretty good tool...and here's what it said: "Turn feed screw handle CW until pressure kick-out releases. A few additional turns before backing off will burnish flare." Pressure kick-out? Man, this tool is a far cry from the normal tools I've witnessed in some aircraft fixers toolboxes. It has needle bearings, ball thrust bearings, a very fine thread for the feed screw, meaning that it takes very little torque to make a flare. The forming "anvil" (I'll call it) rotates in an orbital path, so it is only touching one small portion of the tubing at any one time, preventing galling...man, this thing is slick! And for about $101-$116, the price isn't too bad, but a bit much for the average user. I would get one in a heartbeat if I was just starting out. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062 Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip) Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm) Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery From: Patrick Reilly Lowell, Thanks for the info. Pat Reilly On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > Yes, The terminals. He specifically mentioned corrosion that cannot be > seen. I think we have all seen the gunk around the terminals on a car > battery. I guess the gunk on our aircraft batteries can be a bit more > subtle. Regarding the maintenance of the batteries. I am definitely not an > expert as my only experience is with the Odyssey on my incomplete project, > but the literature suggests that these batteries require a somewhat > different approach to maintenance. > > Lowell > > *From:* Patrick Reilly > *Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:35 PM > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Battery > > Lowell, Good advice. You do mean the "terminals" on the battery and cables, > right? > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuilt > Rockford, IL > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > >> Pat, >> >> I talked to a friend who replaced an Odyssey battery on his Model IV and >> gave the old one to his son. The son, cleaned up the contacts and still has >> it starting his garden tractor after another three years. It was my friends >> opinion, that the contacts can develop corrosion that is not detectable by >> simply looking at them. First, and this would be the advice from Larry, >> take some emery cloth or some other very fine abrasive and clean the >> contacts both on the battery and the cables, then see what happens. >> >> Lowell >> >> *From:* Patrick Reilly >> *Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 PM >> *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Battery >> >> Kitfoxers, I have an Odessy PC625 battery on my 582. Flew for about 1/2 >> hour with radio and strobes only on. Battery was almost dead and had to >> charge for 20 min. to start engine. I always have a float charger hooked up >> to the battery in the hanger and it never fails to start. I purchased the >> battery about 3 years ago. It sat for a year and a half. I have put about 30 >> hours on the plane in the last year and a half. What is the best way to >> determine if I need a new battery or my charging system is weak. Also, is a >> float charger always hooked up a good idea? It seems to help on the other >> batteries I use them on. >> >> -- >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford,IL >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford,IL > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.