Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Mod for strech (Patrick Reilly)
2. 06:11 AM - Re: landing rpm (Patrick Reilly)
3. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Mod for strech (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
4. 05:27 PM - Re: landing rpm (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
5. 05:51 PM - Re: Flapperons (WurlyBird)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Mod for strech |
AV8r, Sounds like fate to me. Where are you located? Also, keep us posted on
what the modification consists.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Av8r3400 <theav8rweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I've got a IV-1200 going through a full rebuild right now, it's down to the
> bare tubing at the moment. Airdale is just 25 miles down the road from me.
>
> However I do have a 912 for it so the weight and balance is okay. But
> still...
>
> --------
> Thanks,
> Av8r3400
>
> Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
> Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339818#339818
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 2
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John, I have previously said, "I'll be trying to get out of the casket
saying, lets go build something".
Pat Reilly
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:19 PM, <kerrjohna@comcast.net> wrote:
> many of us fly to support our building habit.
>
>
> John Kerr
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43@gmail.com>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 9:23:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
>
> Jim, You caught my drift. Kind of like like flying , I can weld too. I'
m
> best at welding up burn through holes.
>
> Pat Reilly
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> At that rate you just might get plenty of opertunitys to work on
>> them!! LOL Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. I'm a fine one to talk
>> though, I've had to do a bit of repairing at times myself. Keep
>> flying, keep learning, and keep having fun. I got another hour on my Av
id
>> this evening so I'm in a good mood myself. Take care,
>> Jim Chuk
>> Avid MK IV (flying)
>> Kitfox 4 (building, kindof slowly latley)
>> northern Mn
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:01:15 -0500
>>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
>> From: patreilly43@gmail.com
>>
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>
>> John, I say, I'll always be better at working on airplanes than I will
>> be at flying them.
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:50 PM, <kerrjohna@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> you have now had an aha moment, go enjoy some ah moments then come back
>> to the "education and recreation" of home building.
>>
>> J
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43@gmail.com>
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:38:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
>>
>>
>> John, Cut my approach glide IAS from 60 to 55mph. Huge difference in
>> control and bounce eliminated. Didn't have time to cut approach glide to
>> 50mph. But, I will when I return from vacation in a week. Rather stay he
re
>> and play. But, wife says we're going to Puerto Rico. As the blues song g
oes,
>> " She treats me like a king, she makes alot of money, I don't worry abou
t a
>> thing". ( She is a goverment employee.) She says we're going, then we're
>> going....... I'm crazy.....not stupid!
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>> Rockford, IL
>>
>> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:56 PM, <kerrjohna@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> It will be good to hear if you find landing at the lower speed an easie
r
>> task. You will note that the 60 mph approach is not much different than
the
>> adjoining thread this morning talked of cruise speed seen with Model IV
with
>> 618 engine.
>>
>> John Kerr
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43@gmail.com>
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:53:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
>>
>>
>> John, I am approaching at 60 and have planning on slowing it down to
>> 50. Thanks.
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rwbuilt
>> Rockford, IL
>>
>> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 9:53 AM, <kerrjohna@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Frequently in the past, difficulty in landing has been traced back to
>> approach speed. Using the recommended 1.3 x stall speed in the pattern
will
>> yield improved landings. Last year, prompted by this discussion I flew
>> final at 50mph ASI @ 2000 rpm and the stick held firmly in position unti
l
>> touch down. There was no float just a solid arrival. Using a slight am
ount
>> of flair generates a greased landing with ~200 feet roll out.
>>
>> Since adding the VG's last month I have been practicing really slow
>> landings at idle with full 20 degree flaps and the plane is touching dow
n at
>> less than 40 ASI and so gently there is no chance of spinning off the va
lve
>> stems as alluded to in another thread. 20 degrees flaps does provide
>> increased adverse yaw and therefore opportunities to improve airmanship.
>>
>> AOPA has a video out entitled Ups and Downs where in the chronical the
>> problems of too fast approaches and too slow take offs.
>>
>> John Kerr
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43@gmail.com>
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 8:20:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
>>
>>
>> Ed, Thanks for info. My problem, I believe has been pulling stick back
>> too soon and relaunching. I have been negligent in the past about pulli
ng
>> stick all the way back and am over compensating.
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>>
>> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Ed Gray <egraylaw@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> I don=92t get the difficulty with rpms while landing. I stay at 2500
on
>> final and the prop seems to be producing drag, since I can plop on the f
irst
>> 100 feet of runway. If flaring too high, try wheel landings for a while
.
>> Just fly it onto the ground and keep the tail up until almost to the tur
noff
>> with about 2800 rpm. The Fox makes great wheelies and you can see where
you
>> are going-just keep that stick forward and easy on the brakes. Comments
?
>>
>>
>>
>> PS. I am about 2 months from completion of my Lancair 360 and waiting f
or
>> my Viking (Honda) for the Kitfox 4 in the carshed. ONE FOR SLOW AND ONE
FOR
>> GO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ed Gray K2 582 GSC Dallas
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford,IL
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford,IL
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford,IL
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford,IL
>>
>> *
>>
>> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford,IL
>
> *
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Mod for strech |
I think the Kitfox 4 is somewhat streched allready. My understanding is th
e early Kitfoxes were about the same dimentions as the Avids. My Kitfox 4
Classic 1200 measures 10' 2" from the rear wing attchment point to the rudd
er hinge. On my Avid MK IV=2C that dimention is
9' 5" or 9" less. That is with the tape pulled right over the top of the h
orizontal stabilizer on each plane. Take care=2C
Jim Chuk
Avid MK IV (flying)
Kitfox 4 (building)
northern Mn
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod for strech
> From: theav8rweb@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri=2C 13 May 2011 19:34:23 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I've got a IV-1200 going through a full rebuild right now=2C it's down to
the bare tubing at the moment. Airdale is just 25 miles down the road from
me.
>
> However I do have a 912 for it so the weight and balance is okay. But sti
ll...
>
> --------
> Thanks=2C
> Av8r3400
>
> Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL &=3B IVO
> Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL &=3B Warp
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339818#339818
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 4
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Just as long as you're not saying=2C I know I can rebuild it! LOL Take ca
re=2C Jim Chuk
do not archive
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
From: patreilly43@gmail.com
John=2C I have previously said=2C "I'll be trying to get out of the casket
saying=2C lets go build something".
Pat Reilly
On Fri=2C May 13=2C 2011 at 12:19 PM=2C <kerrjohna@comcast.net> wrote:
many of us fly to support our building habit.
John Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday=2C May 12=2C 2011 9:23:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
Jim=2C You caught my drift. Kind of like like flying =2C I can weld too. I'
m best at welding up burn through holes.
Pat Reilly
On Wed=2C May 11=2C 2011 at 10:29 PM=2C Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe@hotmail.
com> wrote:
At that rate you just might get plenty of opertunitys to work on them!! LOL
Sorry=2C I couldn't resist that one. I'm a fine one to talk though=2C I'
ve had to do a bit of repairing at times myself. Keep flying=2C keep learn
ing=2C and keep having fun. I got another hour on my Avid this evening so
I'm in a good mood myself. Take care=2C
Jim Chuk
Avid MK IV (flying)
Kitfox 4 (building=2C kindof slowly latley)
northern Mn
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
From: patreilly43@gmail.com
John=2C I say=2C I'll always be better at working on airplanes than I will
be at flying them.
Pat Reilly
On Wed=2C May 11=2C 2011 at 1:50 PM=2C <kerrjohna@comcast.net> wrote:
you have now had an aha moment=2C go enjoy some ah moments then come back t
o the "education and recreation" of home building.
J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday=2C May 11=2C 2011 12:38:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
John=2C Cut my approach glide IAS from 60 to 55mph. Huge difference in cont
rol and bounce eliminated. Didn't have time to cut approach glide to 50mph.
But=2C I will when I return from vacation in a week. Rather stay here and
play. But=2C wife says we're going to Puerto Rico. As the blues song goes
=2C " She treats me like a king=2C she makes alot of money=2C I don't worry
about a thing". ( She is a goverment employee.) She says we're going=2C th
en we're going....... I'm crazy.....not stupid!
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford=2C IL
On Tue=2C May 10=2C 2011 at 2:56 PM=2C <kerrjohna@comcast.net> wrote:
It will be good to hear if you find landing at the lower speed an easier ta
sk. You will note that the 60 mph approach is not much different than the
adjoining thread this morning talked of cruise speed seen with Model IV wit
h 618 engine.
John Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday=2C May 10=2C 2011 12:53:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
John=2C I am approaching at 60 and have planning on slowing it down to 50.
Thanks.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rwbuilt
Rockford=2C IL
On Tue=2C May 10=2C 2011 at 9:53 AM=2C <kerrjohna@comcast.net> wrote:
Frequently in the past=2C difficulty in landing has been traced back to app
roach speed. Using the recommended 1.3 x stall speed in the pattern will y
ield improved landings. Last year=2C prompted by this discussion I flew fi
nal at 50mph ASI @ 2000 rpm and the stick held firmly in position until tou
ch down. There was no float just a solid arrival. Using a slight amount o
f flair generates a greased landing with ~200 feet roll out.
Since adding the VG's last month I have been practicing really slow landing
s at idle with full 20 degree flaps and the plane is touching down at less
than 40 ASI and so gently there is no chance of spinning off the valve stem
s as alluded to in another thread. 20 degrees flaps does provide increased
adverse yaw and therefore opportunities to improve airmanship.
AOPA has a video out entitled Ups and Downs where in the chronical the prob
lems of too fast approaches and too slow take offs.
John Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday=2C May 10=2C 2011 8:20:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm
Ed=2C Thanks for info. My problem=2C I believe has been pulling stick back
too soon and relaunching. I have been negligent in the past about pulling
stick all the way back and am over compensating.
Pat Reilly
On Mon=2C May 9=2C 2011 at 11:19 PM=2C Ed Gray <egraylaw@swbell.net> wrote:
I don=92t get the difficulty with rpms while landing. I stay at 2500 on fi
nal and the prop seems to be producing drag=2C since I can plop on the firs
t 100 feet of runway. If flaring too high=2C try wheel landings for a whil
e. Just fly it onto the ground and keep the tail up until almost to the tu
rnoff with about 2800 rpm. The Fox makes great wheelies and you can see wh
ere you are going-just keep that stick forward and easy on the brakes. Com
ments?
PS. I am about 2 months from completion of my Lancair 360 and waiting for
my Viking (Honda) for the Kitfox 4 in the carshed. ONE FOR SLOW AND ONE FO
R GO.
Ed Gray K2 582 GSC Dallas
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL
Message 5
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Here is what I remember about my flap use; flaps do not reduce roll authority as
much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes that because of the
increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts the stick much farther
into your crotch. If you know you have to move your legs and maybe your
behind a little she will still fly.
You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally worth
the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previous statement).
It is also worth noting that it seems most people including me can not get
a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you go full aft on
the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can make a pretty nice
landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle down and 3 point, she
will stay on the ground at least if you continue to take off flaps.
Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And if I have
full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip, like I said the ailerons still
work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and you can land anywhere!
I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with various flap settings
and working your speed down to a stall. It is important to know that you rudder
will stall before your wing does, if not you are wandering into spin territory.
For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front and just
leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flying around
"normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure neutral at
about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forward for the rest
of the flight, boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and it's broad power curve.
It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator all the
way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This is always
important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with flaps. If you
don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the stick. Do every landing
a little different and you will feel her out pretty quick.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,
now she lies in wait
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863
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