---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/14/11: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Mod for strech (Patrick Reilly) 2. 06:11 AM - Re: landing rpm (Patrick Reilly) 3. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Mod for strech (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 4. 05:27 PM - Re: landing rpm (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 5. 05:51 PM - Re: Flapperons (WurlyBird) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod for strech From: Patrick Reilly AV8r, Sounds like fate to me. Where are you located? Also, keep us posted on what the modification consists. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuilt Rockford, IL On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Av8r3400 wrote: > > I've got a IV-1200 going through a full rebuild right now, it's down to the > bare tubing at the moment. Airdale is just 25 miles down the road from me. > > However I do have a 912 for it so the weight and balance is okay. But > still... > > -------- > Thanks, > Av8r3400 > > Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO > Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339818#339818 > > -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm From: Patrick Reilly John, I have previously said, "I'll be trying to get out of the casket saying, lets go build something". Pat Reilly On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:19 PM, wrote: > many of us fly to support our building habit. > > > John Kerr > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Reilly" > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 9:23:49 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm > > Jim, You caught my drift. Kind of like like flying , I can weld too. I' m > best at welding up burn through holes. > > Pat Reilly > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote: > >> At that rate you just might get plenty of opertunitys to work on >> them!! LOL Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. I'm a fine one to talk >> though, I've had to do a bit of repairing at times myself. Keep >> flying, keep learning, and keep having fun. I got another hour on my Av id >> this evening so I'm in a good mood myself. Take care, >> Jim Chuk >> Avid MK IV (flying) >> Kitfox 4 (building, kindof slowly latley) >> northern Mn >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:01:15 -0500 >> >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm >> From: patreilly43@gmail.com >> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> >> John, I say, I'll always be better at working on airplanes than I will >> be at flying them. >> >> Pat Reilly >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:50 PM, wrote: >> >> you have now had an aha moment, go enjoy some ah moments then come back >> to the "education and recreation" of home building. >> >> J >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patrick Reilly" >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:38:56 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm >> >> >> John, Cut my approach glide IAS from 60 to 55mph. Huge difference in >> control and bounce eliminated. Didn't have time to cut approach glide to >> 50mph. But, I will when I return from vacation in a week. Rather stay he re >> and play. But, wife says we're going to Puerto Rico. As the blues song g oes, >> " She treats me like a king, she makes alot of money, I don't worry abou t a >> thing". ( She is a goverment employee.) She says we're going, then we're >> going....... I'm crazy.....not stupid! >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt >> Rockford, IL >> >> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:56 PM, wrote: >> >> It will be good to hear if you find landing at the lower speed an easie r >> task. You will note that the 60 mph approach is not much different than the >> adjoining thread this morning talked of cruise speed seen with Model IV with >> 618 engine. >> >> John Kerr >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patrick Reilly" >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:53:34 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm >> >> >> John, I am approaching at 60 and have planning on slowing it down to >> 50. Thanks. >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rwbuilt >> Rockford, IL >> >> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 9:53 AM, wrote: >> >> Frequently in the past, difficulty in landing has been traced back to >> approach speed. Using the recommended 1.3 x stall speed in the pattern will >> yield improved landings. Last year, prompted by this discussion I flew >> final at 50mph ASI @ 2000 rpm and the stick held firmly in position unti l >> touch down. There was no float just a solid arrival. Using a slight am ount >> of flair generates a greased landing with ~200 feet roll out. >> >> Since adding the VG's last month I have been practicing really slow >> landings at idle with full 20 degree flaps and the plane is touching dow n at >> less than 40 ASI and so gently there is no chance of spinning off the va lve >> stems as alluded to in another thread. 20 degrees flaps does provide >> increased adverse yaw and therefore opportunities to improve airmanship. >> >> AOPA has a video out entitled Ups and Downs where in the chronical the >> problems of too fast approaches and too slow take offs. >> >> John Kerr >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patrick Reilly" >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 8:20:37 AM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm >> >> >> Ed, Thanks for info. My problem, I believe has been pulling stick back >> too soon and relaunching. I have been negligent in the past about pulli ng >> stick all the way back and am over compensating. >> >> Pat Reilly >> >> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Ed Gray wrote: >> >> I don=92t get the difficulty with rpms while landing. I stay at 2500 on >> final and the prop seems to be producing drag, since I can plop on the f irst >> 100 feet of runway. If flaring too high, try wheel landings for a while .. >> Just fly it onto the ground and keep the tail up until almost to the tur noff >> with about 2800 rpm. The Fox makes great wheelies and you can see where you >> are going-just keep that stick forward and easy on the brakes. Comments ? >> >> >> >> PS. I am about 2 months from completion of my Lancair 360 and waiting f or >> my Viking (Honda) for the Kitfox 4 in the carshed. ONE FOR SLOW AND ONE FOR >> GO. >> >> >> >> Ed Gray K2 582 GSC Dallas >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford,IL >> >> * >> >> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> p://forums.matronics.com >> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford,IL >> >> * >> >> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> p://forums.matronics.com >> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford,IL >> >> * >> >> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> p://forums.matronics.com >> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford,IL >> >> * >> >> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford,IL > > * > > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:16 PM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod for strech I think the Kitfox 4 is somewhat streched allready. My understanding is th e early Kitfoxes were about the same dimentions as the Avids. My Kitfox 4 Classic 1200 measures 10' 2" from the rear wing attchment point to the rudd er hinge. On my Avid MK IV=2C that dimention is 9' 5" or 9" less. That is with the tape pulled right over the top of the h orizontal stabilizer on each plane. Take care=2C Jim Chuk Avid MK IV (flying) Kitfox 4 (building) northern Mn > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod for strech > From: theav8rweb@yahoo.com > Date: Fri=2C 13 May 2011 19:34:23 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > I've got a IV-1200 going through a full rebuild right now=2C it's down to the bare tubing at the moment. Airdale is just 25 miles down the road from me. > > However I do have a 912 for it so the weight and balance is okay. But sti ll... > > -------- > Thanks=2C > Av8r3400 > > Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL &=3B IVO > Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL &=3B Warp > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339818#339818 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:25 PM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: landing rpm Just as long as you're not saying=2C I know I can rebuild it! LOL Take ca re=2C Jim Chuk do not archive Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm From: patreilly43@gmail.com John=2C I have previously said=2C "I'll be trying to get out of the casket saying=2C lets go build something". Pat Reilly On Fri=2C May 13=2C 2011 at 12:19 PM=2C wrote: many of us fly to support our building habit. John Kerr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Reilly" Sent: Thursday=2C May 12=2C 2011 9:23:49 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm Jim=2C You caught my drift. Kind of like like flying =2C I can weld too. I' m best at welding up burn through holes. Pat Reilly On Wed=2C May 11=2C 2011 at 10:29 PM=2C Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote: At that rate you just might get plenty of opertunitys to work on them!! LOL Sorry=2C I couldn't resist that one. I'm a fine one to talk though=2C I' ve had to do a bit of repairing at times myself. Keep flying=2C keep learn ing=2C and keep having fun. I got another hour on my Avid this evening so I'm in a good mood myself. Take care=2C Jim Chuk Avid MK IV (flying) Kitfox 4 (building=2C kindof slowly latley) northern Mn Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm From: patreilly43@gmail.com John=2C I say=2C I'll always be better at working on airplanes than I will be at flying them. Pat Reilly On Wed=2C May 11=2C 2011 at 1:50 PM=2C wrote: you have now had an aha moment=2C go enjoy some ah moments then come back t o the "education and recreation" of home building. J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Reilly" Sent: Wednesday=2C May 11=2C 2011 12:38:56 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm John=2C Cut my approach glide IAS from 60 to 55mph. Huge difference in cont rol and bounce eliminated. Didn't have time to cut approach glide to 50mph. But=2C I will when I return from vacation in a week. Rather stay here and play. But=2C wife says we're going to Puerto Rico. As the blues song goes =2C " She treats me like a king=2C she makes alot of money=2C I don't worry about a thing". ( She is a goverment employee.) She says we're going=2C th en we're going....... I'm crazy.....not stupid! Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuilt Rockford=2C IL On Tue=2C May 10=2C 2011 at 2:56 PM=2C wrote: It will be good to hear if you find landing at the lower speed an easier ta sk. You will note that the 60 mph approach is not much different than the adjoining thread this morning talked of cruise speed seen with Model IV wit h 618 engine. John Kerr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Reilly" Sent: Tuesday=2C May 10=2C 2011 12:53:34 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm John=2C I am approaching at 60 and have planning on slowing it down to 50. Thanks. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rwbuilt Rockford=2C IL On Tue=2C May 10=2C 2011 at 9:53 AM=2C wrote: Frequently in the past=2C difficulty in landing has been traced back to app roach speed. Using the recommended 1.3 x stall speed in the pattern will y ield improved landings. Last year=2C prompted by this discussion I flew fi nal at 50mph ASI @ 2000 rpm and the stick held firmly in position until tou ch down. There was no float just a solid arrival. Using a slight amount o f flair generates a greased landing with ~200 feet roll out. Since adding the VG's last month I have been practicing really slow landing s at idle with full 20 degree flaps and the plane is touching down at less than 40 ASI and so gently there is no chance of spinning off the valve stem s as alluded to in another thread. 20 degrees flaps does provide increased adverse yaw and therefore opportunities to improve airmanship. AOPA has a video out entitled Ups and Downs where in the chronical the prob lems of too fast approaches and too slow take offs. John Kerr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Reilly" Sent: Tuesday=2C May 10=2C 2011 8:20:37 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing rpm Ed=2C Thanks for info. My problem=2C I believe has been pulling stick back too soon and relaunching. I have been negligent in the past about pulling stick all the way back and am over compensating. Pat Reilly On Mon=2C May 9=2C 2011 at 11:19 PM=2C Ed Gray wrote: I don=92t get the difficulty with rpms while landing. I stay at 2500 on fi nal and the prop seems to be producing drag=2C since I can plop on the firs t 100 feet of runway. If flaring too high=2C try wheel landings for a whil e. Just fly it onto the ground and keep the tail up until almost to the tu rnoff with about 2800 rpm. The Fox makes great wheelies and you can see wh ere you are going-just keep that stick forward and easy on the brakes. Com ments? PS. I am about 2 months from completion of my Lancair 360 and waiting for my Viking (Honda) for the Kitfox 4 in the carshed. ONE FOR SLOW AND ONE FO R GO. Ed Gray K2 582 GSC Dallas arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2CIL arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2CIL arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2CIL arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2CIL target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2CIL arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2CIL ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:06 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons From: "WurlyBird" Here is what I remember about my flap use; flaps do not reduce roll authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes that because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you have to move your legs and maybe your behind a little she will still fly. You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previous statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most people including me can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you go full aft on the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can make a pretty nice landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle down and 3 point, she will stay on the ground at least if you continue to take off flaps. Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And if I have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip, like I said the ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and you can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with various flap settings and working your speed down to a stall. It is important to know that you rudder will stall before your wing does, if not you are wandering into spin territory. For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front and just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flying around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forward for the rest of the flight, boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and it's broad power curve. It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator all the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This is always important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the stick. Do every landing a little different and you will feel her out pretty quick. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, now she lies in wait Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.