Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Flapperons (Patrick Reilly)
2. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Flapperons (Dave Fisher)
3. 07:43 AM - Re: tires wheels (rtmarshall)
4. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: Flapperons (David)
5. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Flapperons (Randy Bishop)
6. 09:45 PM - Re: Re: Flapperons (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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James, Thanks for info, I too love full flap final. You can get alot of drag
so that your really nose down. I haven't tried reduceing flaps just before
touch down on landing yet. I thought that might be an advantage to reducing
lift at that point significantly and keeping you on the ground. I never
noticed that I had reduced alieron travel because of my hips. I do have
electric elevator trim. But, I find I really dno't use it much. You mention
running out of rudder authority. Is that because of full flapperon position?
I know I flew a C 150 with 30 degrees of flaps that full flap approach was
prohibited because of lose of rudder control.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:48 PM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>wrote:
> james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> Here is what I remember about my flap use; flaps do not reduce roll
> authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes that
> because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts
> the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you have to move your
> legs and maybe your behind a little she will still fly.
>
> You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally
> worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previous
> statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most people including me
> can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you go
> full aft on the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can
> make a pretty nice landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle down
> and 3 point, she will stay on the ground at least if you continue to take
> off flaps.
>
> Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And if
> I have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip, like I said the
> ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and you
> can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with
> various flap settings and working your speed down to a stall. It is
> important to know that you rudder will stall before your wing does, if not
> you are wandering into spin territory.
>
> For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front and
> just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flying
> around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure
> neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forward
> for the rest of the flight, boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and it's
> broad power curve.
>
> It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator all
> the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This
> is always important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with
> flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the stick.
> Do every landing a little different and you will feel her out pretty quick.
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
> 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,
> now she lies in wait
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 2
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You guys are both flying mod 3?
The flapperons when using "flaps" is really limited compared to a Model
4 -- about 15% more chord and More deflection on the IV.
Mine go a full 33" down when " full are applied. Really useful for
busting loose outta mud or off of glassy water. for landing over 20
degrees there is no advantage but your roll control is limited.
Some builder will limit the travel of flapperons on IV model but they
end up losing some short field performance this way.
Iv has 2 to 1 differential built in and that gives a vast improvement in
Adverse yaw that ou get from the Mod 1,2 and 3s.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Reilly
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons
James, Thanks for info, I too love full flap final. You can get alot
of drag so that your really nose down. I haven't tried reduceing flaps
just before touch down on landing yet. I thought that might be an
advantage to reducing lift at that point significantly and keeping you
on the ground. I never noticed that I had reduced alieron travel because
of my hips. I do have electric elevator trim. But, I find I really dno't
use it much. You mention running out of rudder authority. Is that
because of full flapperon position? I know I flew a C 150 with 30
degrees of flaps that full flap approach was prohibited because of lose
of rudder control.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:48 PM, WurlyBird
<james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil> wrote:
<james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
Here is what I remember about my flap use; flaps do not reduce roll
authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes
that because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward
pitch puts the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you
have to move your legs and maybe your behind a little she will still
fly.
You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not
normally worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips
(see previous statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most
people including me can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full
flaps. However if you go full aft on the stick and make a nice round
out I have found that you can make a pretty nice landing by reducing
flaps applied to make her settle down and 3 point, she will stay on the
ground at least if you continue to take off flaps.
Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps.
And if I have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip, like I
said the ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this
config and you can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at
altitude with various flap settings and working your speed down to a
stall. It is important to know that you rudder will stall before your
wing does, if not you are wandering into spin territory.
For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the
front and just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if
you are flying around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes
the pitch pressure neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off
and then push forward for the rest of the flight, boy I can't wait to
play with the HKS and it's broad power curve.
It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the
elevator all the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in
your crotch. This is always important (with my CG) but becomes
critical when playing with flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had
better be full back on the stick. Do every landing a little different
and you will feel her out pretty quick.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,
now she lies in wait
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863
ist Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: tires wheels |
Hello Kitfox Flyers, we are Changing our wheels to 600 x 6 and will have
the original kitfox wheels 8", new tires, brakes, axels for a 4-1200 for
sale or trade, is it possible that someone has a set of wheel pants and
hardware to swap? we assume that the pants would be for the smaller
wheel, seems like speedster had pants but we are not sure what wheel
size they used, Please contact us off list. Thanks Bob and Toodie .
Message 4
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Is anyone else getting 50+copies of Wurlybird e-mails?
C. David Estapa
Woodstock, Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons
--> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
Here is what I remember about my flap use; flaps do not reduce roll
authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes that
because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts
the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you have to move your
legs and maybe your behind a little she will still fly.
You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally
worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previous
statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most people including me
can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you go
full aft on the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can
make a pretty nice landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle down
and 3 point, she will stay on the ground at least if you continue to take
off flaps.
Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And if I
have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip, like I said the
ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and you
can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with
various flap settings and working your speed down to a stall. It is
important to know that you rudder will stall before your wing does, if not
you are wandering into spin territory.
For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front and
just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flying
around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure
neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forward
for the rest of the flight, boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and it's
broad power curve.
It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator all
the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This
is always important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with
flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the stick.
Do every landing a little different and you will feel her out pretty quick.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between
deployments,
now she lies in wait
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4dd090723fdc349bd90st01duc
Message 5
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...nope
> From: davestapa@juno.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons
> Date: Sun=2C 15 May 2011 22:47:16 -0400
>
>
> Is anyone else getting 50+copies of Wurlybird e-mails?
>
>
> C. David Estapa
> Woodstock=2C Georgia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird
> Sent: Saturday=2C May 14=2C 2011 8:49 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons
>
> --> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> Here is what I remember about my flap use=3B flaps do not reduce roll
> authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes tha
t
> because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts
> the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you have to move you
r
> legs and maybe your behind a little she will still fly.
>
> You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally
> worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previou
s
> statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most people including m
e
> can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you
go
> full aft on the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can
> make a pretty nice landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle d
own
> and 3 point=2C she will stay on the ground at least if you continue to ta
ke
> off flaps.
>
> Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And i
f I
> have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip=2C like I said the
> ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and yo
u
> can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with
> various flap settings and working your speed down to a stall. It is
> important to know that you rudder will stall before your wing does=2C if
not
> you are wandering into spin territory.
>
> For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front a
nd
> just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flyi
ng
> around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure
> neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forwar
d
> for the rest of the flight=2C boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and i
t's
> broad power curve.
>
> It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator a
ll
> the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This
> is always important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with
> flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the sti
ck.
> Do every landing a little different and you will feel her out pretty quic
k.
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70"=3B IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between
> deployments=2C
> now she lies in wait
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
> Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4dd090723fdc349bd90st01duc
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 6
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On 5/15/2011 7:47 PM, David wrote:
> Is anyone else getting 50+copies of Wurlybird e-mails?
>
No, and you can be certain that if we were getting 50+ copies of
anything we'd quickly do something about it.
Guy Buchanan - List moderator
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
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