---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/15/11: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Flapperons (Patrick Reilly) 2. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Flapperons (Dave Fisher) 3. 07:43 AM - Re: tires wheels (rtmarshall) 4. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: Flapperons (David) 5. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Flapperons (Randy Bishop) 6. 09:45 PM - Re: Re: Flapperons (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons From: Patrick Reilly James, Thanks for info, I too love full flap final. You can get alot of drag so that your really nose down. I haven't tried reduceing flaps just before touch down on landing yet. I thought that might be an advantage to reducing lift at that point significantly and keeping you on the ground. I never noticed that I had reduced alieron travel because of my hips. I do have electric elevator trim. But, I find I really dno't use it much. You mention running out of rudder authority. Is that because of full flapperon position? I know I flew a C 150 with 30 degrees of flaps that full flap approach was prohibited because of lose of rudder control. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuilt Rockford, IL On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:48 PM, WurlyBird wrote: > james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil> > > Here is what I remember about my flap use; flaps do not reduce roll > authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes that > because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts > the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you have to move your > legs and maybe your behind a little she will still fly. > > You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally > worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previous > statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most people including me > can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you go > full aft on the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can > make a pretty nice landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle down > and 3 point, she will stay on the ground at least if you continue to take > off flaps. > > Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And if > I have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip, like I said the > ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and you > can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with > various flap settings and working your speed down to a stall. It is > important to know that you rudder will stall before your wing does, if not > you are wandering into spin territory. > > For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front and > just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flying > around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure > neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forward > for the rest of the flight, boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and it's > broad power curve. > > It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator all > the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This > is always important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with > flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the stick. > Do every landing a little different and you will feel her out pretty quick. > > -------- > James > Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA > 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, > now she lies in wait > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863 > > -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:45 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons You guys are both flying mod 3? The flapperons when using "flaps" is really limited compared to a Model 4 -- about 15% more chord and More deflection on the IV. Mine go a full 33" down when " full are applied. Really useful for busting loose outta mud or off of glassy water. for landing over 20 degrees there is no advantage but your roll control is limited. Some builder will limit the travel of flapperons on IV model but they end up losing some short field performance this way. Iv has 2 to 1 differential built in and that gives a vast improvement in Adverse yaw that ou get from the Mod 1,2 and 3s. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons James, Thanks for info, I too love full flap final. You can get alot of drag so that your really nose down. I haven't tried reduceing flaps just before touch down on landing yet. I thought that might be an advantage to reducing lift at that point significantly and keeping you on the ground. I never noticed that I had reduced alieron travel because of my hips. I do have electric elevator trim. But, I find I really dno't use it much. You mention running out of rudder authority. Is that because of full flapperon position? I know I flew a C 150 with 30 degrees of flaps that full flap approach was prohibited because of lose of rudder control. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuilt Rockford, IL On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:48 PM, WurlyBird wrote: Here is what I remember about my flap use; flaps do not reduce roll authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes that because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you have to move your legs and maybe your behind a little she will still fly. You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previous statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most people including me can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you go full aft on the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can make a pretty nice landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle down and 3 point, she will stay on the ground at least if you continue to take off flaps. Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And if I have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip, like I said the ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and you can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with various flap settings and working your speed down to a stall. It is important to know that you rudder will stall before your wing does, if not you are wandering into spin territory. For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front and just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flying around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forward for the rest of the flight, boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and it's broad power curve. It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator all the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This is always important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the stick. Do every landing a little different and you will feel her out pretty quick. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, now she lies in wait Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863 ist Un/Subscription, www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:40 AM PST US From: "rtmarshall" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: tires wheels Hello Kitfox Flyers, we are Changing our wheels to 600 x 6 and will have the original kitfox wheels 8", new tires, brakes, axels for a 4-1200 for sale or trade, is it possible that someone has a set of wheel pants and hardware to swap? we assume that the pants would be for the smaller wheel, seems like speedster had pants but we are not sure what wheel size they used, Please contact us off list. Thanks Bob and Toodie . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:57 PM PST US From: "David" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons Is anyone else getting 50+copies of Wurlybird e-mails? C. David Estapa Woodstock, Georgia -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:49 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons --> Here is what I remember about my flap use; flaps do not reduce roll authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes that because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you have to move your legs and maybe your behind a little she will still fly. You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previous statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most people including me can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you go full aft on the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can make a pretty nice landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle down and 3 point, she will stay on the ground at least if you continue to take off flaps. Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And if I have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip, like I said the ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and you can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with various flap settings and working your speed down to a stall. It is important to know that you rudder will stall before your wing does, if not you are wandering into spin territory. For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front and just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flying around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forward for the rest of the flight, boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and it's broad power curve. It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator all the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This is always important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the stick. Do every landing a little different and you will feel her out pretty quick. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments, now she lies in wait Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863 ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 3000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4dd090723fdc349bd90st01duc ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:59 PM PST US From: Randy Bishop Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons ...nope > From: davestapa@juno.com > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons > Date: Sun=2C 15 May 2011 22:47:16 -0400 > > > Is anyone else getting 50+copies of Wurlybird e-mails? > > > C. David Estapa > Woodstock=2C Georgia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird > Sent: Saturday=2C May 14=2C 2011 8:49 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons > > --> > > Here is what I remember about my flap use=3B flaps do not reduce roll > authority as much as most people say. That is as long as you realizes tha t > because of the increased back stick to accomodate that forward pitch puts > the stick much farther into your crotch. If you know you have to move you r > legs and maybe your behind a little she will still fly. > > You can land with full flaps applied but the speed change is not normally > worth the added effort of flying the ailerons with your hips (see previou s > statement). It is also worth noting that it seems most people including m e > can not get a KF 3 or earlier to 3 point with full flaps. However if you go > full aft on the stick and make a nice round out I have found that you can > make a pretty nice landing by reducing flaps applied to make her settle d own > and 3 point=2C she will stay on the ground at least if you continue to ta ke > off flaps. > > Regardless of how I land I LOVE making an approach with full flaps. And i f I > have full flaps I am probably also in a forward slip=2C like I said the > ailerons still work. This plane glides like a brick in this config and yo u > can land anywhere! I recommend doing a bunch of slips at altitude with > various flap settings and working your speed down to a stall. It is > important to know that you rudder will stall before your wing does=2C if not > you are wandering into spin territory. > > For normal operations though I set the flaps at about 1" from the front a nd > just leave it there. As much fun as they are to play with if you are flyi ng > around "normally" you don't need them. 1" for me makes the pitch pressure > neutral at about 65-70 mPh. So pull back to take off and then push forwar d > for the rest of the flight=2C boy I can't wait to play with the HKS and i t's > broad power curve. > > It took my buddy and I a few hours to realize that to pull the elevator a ll > the way up requires the stick to be all the way back in your crotch. This > is always important (with my CG) but becomes critical when playing with > flaps. If you don't want to bounce you had better be full back on the sti ck. > Do every landing a little different and you will feel her out pretty quic k. > > -------- > James > Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70"=3B IVO 2 blade GA 50 hrs on the Fox in between > deployments=2C > now she lies in wait > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339863#339863 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Penny Stock Jumping 3000% > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4dd090723fdc349bd90st01duc > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:01 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flapperons On 5/15/2011 7:47 PM, David wrote: > Is anyone else getting 50+copies of Wurlybird e-mails? > No, and you can be certain that if we were getting 50+ copies of anything we'd quickly do something about it. Guy Buchanan - List moderator Ramona, CA Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.