---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/21/11: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:19 AM - Re: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? (fox5flyer) 2. 06:35 AM - Re: Bungee Time!! (Tom Jones) 3. 07:38 AM - Re: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? (Lowell Fitt) 4. 10:29 AM - Re: Bungee Time!! (Guy Buchanan) 5. 02:24 PM - Re: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? (kirk hull) 6. 07:49 PM - Re: Bungee Time!! (bjones@dmv.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:35 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? Hi, Andy. Obviously, unless you use a thermostat, the engine temps are directly affected by outside ambient temps. Higher oat means higher engine temps. With mine, at about 70 oat, I warm up to 150f for takeoff and generally by 2k agl engine temps increase to about 195 where they stay when I level off for cruise. I have my radiator enclosed with adjustable rear cowl flap so that I have some control over engine temps. On hot days I keep an eye on the climb temps as they can creep up to 215 or even higher. When that happens I just level off for a little while, then climb some more. I rarely get more than 4k agl anyway, so it isn't a problem here in Michigan. The temps you indicate do not seem extremely high to me. Adding throttle increases power and power produces heat so it's normal for the temps to rise somewhat. Of course, no two experimental aircraft setups are the same so, if it is a big concern, you might take a look at yours to see what you can do to scavenge more heat out of the cowling/radiator. Deke S5/NSI Subaru/CAP 470TT ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:19 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Bungee Time!! From: "Tom Jones" Dave, I would say your bungees were manufactured in the 4th quarter of a year ending in 2 or 7. If you know they are only a couple years old then I say 2007. Here's everything you ever wanted to know about bungees. AC 43.13-1B Chapter 9. Bungees are on page 9-2. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airweb.faa.gov%2FRegulatory_and_Guidance_Library%255CrgAdvisoryCircular.nsf%2F0%2F99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E%3FOpenDocument&rct=j&q=ac%2043.13-1b&ei=YJwATr_RPJL4swO78qi8DQ&usg=AFQjCNERv5F9Ty8snEnxwHYdDlQ02fYosg&sig2=tHFIIRli0jD2UbF6F5ZvTw&cad=rja -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343633#343633 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:56 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? Andy, First my disclaimer - I know nothing specifically about the Subaru installation - but I would like to offer some ideas from other applications. I have helped build two airplanes and am in my second Kitfox IV build. I understand that the later model Kitfoxes with internal radiators have suffered at times from inadequate cooling. I am currently helping with a Series V with a 7 FWF set-up. It has an internal radiator and I have been told that the reason for the larger - by at least a factor of 2 - radiator was to help with cooling, as with earlier models that was an issue. As I looked over the installation, it became pretty obvious that the cowl inlet area providing cooling air to the radiator is considerable larger than the outlet area. Switch to the Lancair IV I helped with. Given that it is an air cooled engine, and arguably quite different, what follows might not totally apply, but when builders of this airplane found cooling problems, the solution was to decrease - yes decrease - the inlet area. This provided a lower pressure within the cowl and more smooth, slower flowing air over the fins which picked up more heat. With the 7 FWF on the V build, the total outlet area under the cowl is about 110 in. Sq. The inlet to the radiator is a NACA duct that expands to the area of the radiator which is about 103 in. sq. Add to that 15 and 17 in. sq. for the oil cooler and the openings on each side of the spinner and the inlet area to the entire cowl is 135 in. sq. The general rule of thumb for air cooled is a 1.5 to 1 ratio outlet to inlet. The Kitfox has it not quite exactly reversed. I think what is happening in the Kitfox is the inadequate outlet is simply acting like a dam and the cooling air is simply bypassing the cowl openings seeing essentially a partially blocked hole. The Speedster radiator shroud I had on my first Model IV had the inlet to outlet ratio pretty much like what the Lancair folks found to work best. All this is opinion, but it may give some suggestions on where to look regarding possible solutions. Lowell From: fox5flyer Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:16 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? Hi, Andy. Obviously, unless you use a thermostat, the engine temps are directly affected by outside ambient temps. Higher oat means higher engine temps. With mine, at about 70 oat, I warm up to 150f for takeoff and generally by 2k agl engine temps increase to about 195 where they stay when I level off for cruise. I have my radiator enclosed with adjustable rear cowl flap so that I have some control over engine temps. On hot days I keep an eye on the climb temps as they can creep up to 215 or even higher. When that happens I just level off for a little while, then climb some more. I rarely get more than 4k agl anyway, so it isn't a problem here in Michigan. The temps you indicate do not seem extremely high to me. Adding throttle increases power and power produces heat so it's normal for the temps to rise somewhat. Of course, no two experimental aircraft setups are the same so, if it is a big concern, you might take a look at yours to see what you can do to scavenge more heat out of the cowling/radiator. Deke S5/NSI Subaru/CAP 470TT ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:05 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bungee Time!! On 6/20/2011 4:18 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote: > Dave, I replaced mine with Lowell Fitt's bush gear. Try that. It's > alot more work and alot more $ but alot more friendly when I'm > doing ground loops. Pat, I like Lowell's gear a lot, but I find I get much better rotation on my ground loops with the narrow gear. ;-) Do NOT archive Guy Buchanan Ramona, CA Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:54 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? My stratus stays at 190 but it also has a thermostat I do have to watch the oil temps though _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:48 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? This one is for those of you running a STRATUS or other Subaru EA-81 on your AVID or KF. What are your water temps running on take off climb, cruise climb and at cruise? At what RPM are you running with the temp numbers you are seeing? I'm just a little concerned with the temps I'm seeing. 180 before take off and then on climb out I'm seeing the temp go over 200 pretty quick. If I keep it in a climb 5000 RPM it'll continue to rise to 215 till I pull the power back to about 4000 and level off and then it will only come back down to around 200 after a while. If I increase the RPM I'll see the temp start to rise again even if I stay level. OK I'm listening. Andy F. 7.1 hours since I got my airworthiness last tuesday ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bungee Time!! From: bjones@dmv.com Changed mine about 3 years ago on a 1050. They are still doing thier job. if you want me to look for stripe colors to see if they match yours let me know. bj KF IV 1050 Rotax 912 warp Drive/nickle edge Dave, I replaced mine with Lowell Fitt's bush gear. Try that. It's alot > more > work and alot more $ but alot more friendly when I'm doing ground loops. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuilt > Rockford, IL > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Dave G wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> I need to replace the saggy old bungees on my Mod IV 1050. I have looked >> through the archives and determined this is a job for two. If anyone has >> any >> ideas that make it quick and easy now would be the time to share. >> >> The bungees I am installing are beige with two red and one yellow >> stripe. >> Been in the package a couple of years. Anyone care to tell me what this >> code >> means cause the ones I am removing are way different for stripes. >> >> Thanks >> >> Dave G. mod IV 1050 582 Warp. >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford,IL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.